| Author |
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adtoolco
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 04:20 pm: | 
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Well I had a surprizing morning the other day. I was warming up my Disco2 and the engine sputters and dies on me. Ok...so I try and start her up...click, click, click, nothing. Shit, late for work and no ride. Oh well I call in sick, and then I call Rover 24 hour service. Tow truck shows up a little over an hour later, not bad I think to myself. So the driver loads my Rover on his truck and I jump in. We proceed to have a pleasent conversation on the way to my dealer. The driver is a dead ringer for Shawn Michaels of the WWE, he has the voice and everything. Shawn keeps mentioning how heavy my Disco is for its size as he fights up a steady incline. I just smile and agree with him. He asks "are they everything they are cracked up to be?" again I smile and say "yup" pleasently, actually enjoying my day off so far. Well we get to Simsbury about an hour later, and Shawn lets my rig off nicely off the flatbed and I thank him and wish him good day. On to the service rep... an older pleasent fellow his name escapes me. Well I give him the details of my morning surprize and a small list of problems I have. I figured they would set me up with a loaner or a rental at Rovers expense. Nope, no loaner and the rental would come out of my pocket. SHIT... I'm a little pissed at this and ask if they can at least get my rig ship shape and schedual me in for a loaner and take care of my list at a later date. At first they weren't too keen on this, explaining a tech called out sick and they were "short handed". Well since I was without transport and they were not willing to shuttle, loan, or rent me a ride I conceeded and told them I would wait. Well lets just say I had the time to get a real good look at all the new models pretty close. The freelander is a nice little ride, too small for me(6'3" and on the wrong side of 300) but nice none the less. The Range is a bit over complicated, too "fluffy", and way over priced. The front seat was mighty comfy, I'll give it that much. As you all know the new Discos have no real big changes cosmetically, although the High/Low lever instructions included locking the diff, but it wasn't there mechanically. Ass whipes! Well I quickly got bored "looking" and headed over to the garage to see if they were even working on my rig... as fate would have it the tech was pulling in after a test drive. He proceeded to tell my battery died and it was covered by the warrenty and it was replaced. He also explained to me that he cleared my "Sevice engine soon" light. Apparently my third and forth gear ratios are past the limits or whatnot. He blamed it on my abbility to lock my center diff and if the light pops back on and shows the same fault...well even checking and clearing the light will come out of my pocket. Hmmmm...not at all happy with this bit of info. At this point I thank him sign the necessary forms and I'm off. A day wasted, and nothing to show for my suffering except a warning on future diagnostic liabilities. Funny as I'm driving home my "Service engine soon" light pops back on.
-Chris |
OLIVER CLOTHSOFF (Everythingleaks)
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:05 pm: |
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Does anyone else smell that?
Is there a bull pen close by? |
Jason Vance (Jason)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:12 am: |
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That was a helluva story for a DEAD BATTERY.
Pray you never break a CV or an axle wheeling, 'cuz I don't think there would be enough bandwidth to contain the whole tale.
Hey, here's a suggestion:
start your next story, "this one time...at band camp..." |
ema
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 08:22 am: |
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Are Discovery batteries inherently short-lived? When I took delivery of my Disco, my salesman gave me a tour of everything under the hood. He pointed to the battery and said, "This here will probably die in two years. It's covered under warranty and we'll replace it with something longer-lasting."
So, I'm curious as to what everyone's experience with the OEM battery has been. Does it tend to die around the two year mark?
Thanks for the feedback,
-ema |
Ken Dunnington (Ihwillys)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:08 am: |
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Well, the '98 I picked up has a battery in it that shows it was put there in Nov of 2001. It was orginally titled 9/22/98 in Cal, but then was retitled Anaheim in 6/16/99 as a commercial fleet lease vehicle with 41 miles on the odo. So June of '99 to November of '01 is close to 2.5 years of use before the battery was replaced.
Ken |
adtoolco
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:15 am: |
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I guess a paragraph is too much reading for some on this board. Sorry for the faux pas.
-Chris |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:55 am: |
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I enjoyed it Chris. It's short compared to some of my screeds. Must not have been as entertaining to the others.
Peace,
Paul |
Ed Petrush (Exp3)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:04 am: |
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too bad about the battery.. it sometimes happens.. you could get a battery that is a "24month" battery that lasts for 8 years.. or you could buy an extended use battery that dies in 18 months.. it all depends on the use/abuse of it.. use of extra lights/winch etc.. can cause a battery to prematurely fail (same goes with the alt.)
As for the tech comment about them not being able to reset the codes from you setting the center lock.. he is full of shit.. if there is a component on your car that was factory installed and your use of it causes a fault (whether or not you can engage this from the passenger cab or not is irrelavant)then they are responsible to fix it. If they do not agree with the idea.. call the manager/owner/LR warrenty rep... |
adtoolco
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:53 am: |
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Thanks Paul, I was bored and felt like sharing my experience. I figured some would have suggestions or comments on what to do or not do in the future regarding Rover service. As far as batteries just going "dead", yea like shit, it happens. I'm just glad it happened in my driveway and not miles deep on some trail. I guess I'll just get an Optima and keep my new "present" from Rover as an emergency backup. As far as the fault that keeps popping up, Rover Simsbury, CT seems firm that if you use the center diff lock your on your own. I am not happy about it and might try the Boston dealership even though its 70 more miles away. If I didn't like my Disco so much I would buy a nice 3/4 ton chevy, the service isn't great but it is better than Rover's. I better end this now, the bandwidth nazis are lurking.
-Chris |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:01 am: |
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Interstate Megatron, damn good battery. If it dies early, a new one is pro-rated. Last one lasted me three years, when 2 years is the norm out here in the desert. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:41 am: |
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speaking of batteries ...had a optima take a dive this weekend.
just died and wouldent take a charge...only 24mos old? |
adtoolco
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:46 am: |
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How about using a marine battery? The well in them is deep.
-Chris |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
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a marine/starting battery combo is a good way too go ...such as the optima blue top. the blue top is said to be a cells of rapid discharge and 4 cells of deep cell such as the yellow top.
the one that just puked on me is a red top. but I run a alternator that can put out a honest 100amps at idle and 135amps at 2000rpm and above. all the run and drain cycles it goes through are never good for a battery I guess even an optima |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:15 pm: |
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yeah, you don't want to use a deep-cycle marine battery as your only one. They have a "memory" more so than other batteries meaning that if you charge them up enough times before they fully run down they will begin holding less and less of a charge untill they hold practically no charge at all, you wouldn't want it getting charged from he alternator all the time. |
Jason Vance (Jason)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:09 pm: |
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Just giving you crap about your paragraph (er...paragraph-less essay).
I'm wondering just exactly why the battery would get to the state where it would not hold a charge. Is the stock battery badly underrated for the duty it needs to perform, increasing the discharge/recharge cycles...likewise, is the stock alternator also not rated for even daily use of the Disco?
FWIW, I just bought a new battery for my RRC...thought about the Optima's (and remembered all of the red-top stories), but went with an Energizer from Pepboys. A little cheaper, 2 year warranty, and 1000 CCA's...a few more than the Optima would have offerred. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:46 pm: |
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"I'm wondering just exactly why the battery would get to the state where it would not hold a charge."
SIMPLY ABUSE
my truck sits for long periods of time then gets beat on to extreemes then sits again waiting for its next tour of duty.
batteries also take a beating when you are dunking your truck. the drains it can see when the starter and the alternator are drenched in iron rich wet mud are more then one would think.
thats why the deep fording package on the hummers includes 100% coated electrical connections. to prevent the shorts to ground you can get.
because a coil wound battery can discharge faster it can dump its charge faster as well .it can work against you. |
adtoolco
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:08 pm: |
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Yea, grammar was never my strong suit and upon further review it must have been an awfull read. What can I say...I was bored. I would proof read but I'm too lazy of a writer to do that.
As far as the Blue Top Optima, regarding charge/discharge... What would be the proper use of one? Would it be good as your winch, lights, fridge, TV, DVD battery? But not good for starting? And; Would charging it with the alternator be ill-advised?
-Chris |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:15 pm: |
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the blue top is designed to crank over a big outboard motor and ack as a deep cycle to run lights and other accessories.
but not the trolling motor. that would be the job of a dedicated yellow top.
the blue top would work well for a 4x4 that has an electric winch. because it would have the starting covered as well as having a deep cycle benefit on long pulls where it is said to maintain a more consistant discharge rate longer then the red top.
or atleast thats my interpretation of there info? |
adtoolco
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 02:32 pm: |
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So its like a "tweener" of the red & yellow? |
Al Killebrew (Kbrew)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:13 pm: |
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Both blue and yellow top optimas are deep cycle batteries with identical specs. The blue (marine) has threaded posts for easier connection/disconnection of accessories. Red top is a 'starting' battery.
Al |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:24 pm: |
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thats not how the marine displays at the marine dealers read
they clearly state the blue is a duel function battery. I have a blue top in my ski boat
dont believe me...gohere |
Jason Vance (Jason)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:42 pm: |
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Muskyman says," SIMPLY ABUSE "
That doesn't explain what the tech said to EMA earlier in this thread. And since most Discovery owners do not abuse their vehicles, and a Land Rover tech would have enough sense to observe a trend in vehicles being brought in, it sounds like something is a little underrated for even daily driving.
OTOH, I can completely agree with your point WRT stock batteries and offroad use. |
Al Killebrew (Kbrew)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 05:51 pm: |
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Muskyman - I do belive you.
If you'll check the site you've referenced I think you'll find that the yellow top and blue top both (in the D34 BCI Group) have the same specs for CCA, MCA, Reserve capacity etc. Some Optima literature refers to the D34 Blue top as 'dual function' while they reference it as 'deep cycle' in others. Check this page for confirmation: http://www.optimabatteries.com/products/marine/technical.asp
Just to confuse things they also make a D34M in a blue top and call it a 'starting' battery.
The one thing I've found in common with the blue tops is they all have a set of threaded posts.
Al |
Mark & Bev Preston (Markp)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 05:58 pm: |
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Since we are on the topic of batteries, anyone have any experience with Exide's Select Orbital? They also now have a Select Orbital ECD, which is a deep cycle version.
- Mark |
Eric
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 05:59 pm: |
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How does a battery isolator work when you have two batteries? I have heard good things about that, especially for guys like me who have little kids who leave the rear dome light on for five days...
By the way I think the best part about cyberspace is the freedom to write the way you want to. Newsflash... the other great part is reading only what you want to read.
The annoying part about cyberspace are the dunderheads that just like to jab at someone for no particular reason.
Well maybe they have a reason. Maybe they were the ones in junior high that got stuffed in a gym locker, and now they sit back and take it out on the rest of the world from the safety of their computer. Anyone ever get a melvin? Or maybe in your part of the country it's called a wedgie? I fell victim to that a few times around that age.
Eric |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 06:04 pm: |
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sorry Al didnt mean to be flippent
I think that they are pretty good batteries the fact I had one go bad this weekend was kinda a surprize to me I think they normally do pretty good.
this one that failed lived in my trail truck and it never was treated very well just bolted in and bounced around. the 36mo. full replacement should cover it. |
Milan (Milan)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 08:58 pm: |
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Musky,
The Blue and Yellow top are identical internally. I got that info from an Optima tech. The specs would suggest that also. The rest I guess is a marketing BS.
I belive the Exide Orbital DC to be better as it has more CCA, large reserve and it is cheaper. |
OLIVER CLOTHSOFF (Everythingleaks)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 09:10 pm: |
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If you think the Disco II battery was bad you should have seen the failure rate of the batt in the Disco I. It seemed like most of them never made it off the lot with the original LUCAS battery. The Disco II batt is made by delco in France and seems to last a little longer but still has a high failure rate. The replacement battery of LRNA is interstate and they seem to hold up better than most others.
I believe the battery problem stems from the amount of underhood heat in the Land Rover. Most of you may have noticed that the V8 puts off more heat than your average vehicle. Some of this is due to the aluminum construction that disipates heat quickly. I spoke to a Delco engineer and last I heard they were trying to sell Land Rover on the idea of heat shields around the battery. I know most Ford products have this now and Fords battery claims under warranty went way down. The Ford shield is like a sock that slides around the battery. If you want to attempt something like this on your own the engineer warned me that too much insulation can be just as bad as none at all. He was working on a similar problem to Land Rovers in the S-10 when I spoke to him |
Rich Lee
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:21 pm: |
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All conventional lead acid batteries are at risk of dying after being run down repeatedly (surprisingly few times for most non deep-cycle "starting" batteries). However, another cause of battery death is "sulfating". This is where sulfate deposits "exfoliate" off the plates and fall down into the bottom of the battery to form a "percipitate". This gunk then forms a shorting bridge between battery plates and kills that collection of plates, or "cell". These cells usually die off in rapid succession and the battery will no longer hold a charge.
Time alone will do this, but banging and shaking the battery in an off-road setting will do it much faster. There are some "truck" lead acid batteries that have heavier plates with wider gaps to reduce/delay the sulfating process. Costco sells these and I have one in my wife's Rangie. It is holding up very well.
Although any battery might last anywhere from 2 to 12 years, many mechanics believe that anything beyond 3 years is potentially living on borrowed time.
It might be nice if someone started and monitored a thread on Disco Web that kept a simple running survey on the lifespan of various common-fail components. That way we might get a better idea of how long these things last. Keep it simple and classify the part,the vehicle, the miles and/or months before replacement and the driving style (similar to the Tire Rack surveys).
For example:
Name: Rich Lee
Rover: 95 Disco
Driving Style: Aggressive
Use: 80% on 20% off road
Total miles: 127,000
Component: Miles/time
Rear Diff 90k (dreaded circlip)
Water Pump 60k
Front Caliper 60k
OEM Alternator 30k(bad bearing)
OEM Battery 3.5 years
235/70-16 XPC tires 17k-20k/set
255/65-16 XPC Tires 18k-20k/set
225/75-16 Dunlop RT's 17k-20k set
245/75-16 Dunlop RT's 18k-20k/set
Front brake rotors 30k-60k/set
Rear brake rotors 50k-70k/set
Front brake pads 9(kevlar)-12k(OEM)/set
Rear brake pads 12k(kevlar)-20k(OEM)/set
Shocks 42k now on Bilstiens
ATF cooler hoses 60k
Fuel Pump 98k
Steering Box 90k now using Meridian
Motor and Tcase mounts 120k
Heater/A.C. fan switch 112k
And so on. Many non-wear items replaced under 100k mile extended warranty. Tire and brake wear due to very steep, twisty commute (& maybe driving style).
Anyway, one of you D-Web wizards might put an easily-enterd database like this in the Tech section.....Or maybe you'd rather spend your time wheeling. The information could be useful to those who either worry or whine about component failures and would like to compare their experience with others.
Either way, thanks for everyone's input. |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 04:28 pm: |
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Hey folks,
Today when I tried to leave Boeing, the Pig would not start. Dead as all dead can be. Hell the lights wouldn't even come on. Our Security brought out a Battery Pack and the Pig started right up. So, I drive my 16 miles up the Blue Route and buy a Battery from Pep Boys. Hook it up and WHAMMO, the Pig starts. The reason I am posting is because the Pep Boys Dudes were all over me saying my Altenator is possibly hosed and I should look into a new one.
Here is some more history to weigh in on:
The Pig is a MY 2000, making the battery almost 3 years in service.
The green light in the service window is almost completely gone.
When I removed the old battery at Pep Boys, the Pos terminal clamp was loose. Meaning I popped it off with my hand. The clamp is now super tight on the new battery
Out of the last 5 weeks, the Pig has been parked for 3 of them at Philly international.
So out of all this info, what are your opinions? Should I sweat the altenator or is Pep Boys trying to get some XMAS cash?
Paul
'00 Pig |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 05:21 pm: |
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Nevermind....
I just went outside at tested the Altenator Pos out terminal using a Multimeter set on the 15 VDC scale. The output pegged the scale. All is well, I think.
Paul
'00 Pig |
Milan (Milan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:00 pm: |
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If you had a loose terminal I'd almost bet that even your battery was OK and all you needed was to tighten the terminal and charge the battery.
However, after 3 yrs, there's nothing wrong with getting a new one if it makes you feel better.
Also I would double check the alternator if it was pegged at 15. Set the scale to more to see what the reading really is. |
todd slater (Toddslater)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 10:31 pm: |
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Paul,
Did the battery on mine a month ago...the green eye was a little more black than green. Put the vmeter on and the alt looked good. Went to Sears at Concord Mall and pick up the Die Hard from hell and they tested the charging system and confirmed my tests...alt is aok. A discussion with the sears tech reveled that the OEM batteries do not last all that long ... 3years is about it. Carefull with those peep boys !!!
PS I thought you were back in carolina ? |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 05:36 am: |
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Thanks Todd & Milan,
I am back in Philly for 12 more days (who's counting) and then I finally get to go home for good.
Paul
'00 Pig |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 08:37 am: |
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Don't be saying "finally get to go home for good" there Mr. mission specialist globetrotter guy.................. No since jinxing yourself onto an aircraft carrier deck sooner, rather than later................
Regarding the post, I agree that OEM batteries do not have the longevity of after market batteries. It's just like a set of OEM tires vs. the same thing in after market. The OEM is just not made to the same specs. It's made to be cheaper and keep the costs down. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 09:02 am: |
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I use a Wal-MArt deep cycle battery in my camp truck which sits for all but a few days a year in the middle of a field in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Until the Wal-Mart manager caught on, I was successful at replacing it every eleven months...
That said, I'm now on a few years and it runs fine. I also have the same battery in my farm truck which gets driven about once a month and sometimes started and run up to operating temperature on Saturday morning. It doesn't seem to know it has a deep cycle battery in it, and it always starts for me when I need it in spite of not having an operaitonal choke and a badly leaking float needle valve.
I understand the theories behind batteries (there's that redox thing again), but my experience has been that in my applications, the deep cycle batteries work fine.
BTW-I went with the deep cycles for several reasons-an unexplained propensity to leave lights on, long periods of inactivity (the truck, not me), and the useof ham radios and stereos when the trucks are stationary with the engine off.
So far, they've worked for me, but, I also have completely discharged brand new batteries (see above for what I was doing at the time) and have had them fail to hold a charge at all afterwards.
I agree, three years is a good time to preventively replace.
Paul |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 09:17 am: |
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"No since jinxing yourself onto an aircraft carrier deck sooner, rather than later.."
Yeah, ain't that the truth. Well the good thing about Saddam being biligerent is that it's good for business. BTW, I can't get a latte on the deck of a CVN. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 05:43 pm: |
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well took my dead interstate batteries back today
young punk behind the counter told me he'd bet me my land rover the optima is fine and that I have no idea what I'm talking about.
older guy took the 2 batteries back to a counter and tested them
he turned to the punk and said "shit head give him your keys"
both dead...the kid was trying to pull the same "must be your alternator" bullshit
optima= full replacement
Megatron= pro rate 14.95=6.00 disposal |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 06:11 pm: |
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so you got a brand new optima and $9 pro-rated towards a new interstate? |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 06:21 pm: |
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they replaced the optima free because it was less then 36mos old
they charged me 14.95 +6.00 for disposal of the old Megatron(this died in my MB in the drive yesterday what luck)
interstate has the distribution rites to optima here in the midwest so its one stop shopping |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 06:31 pm: |
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same thing out here - walked into the interstate distrib office out here to get my pro-rated megatron, and almost walked out with a red top |
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