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Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:59 am: | 
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Ok, not everyone is going to be able to answer this question, but for those of you who have winters, what temperature does it have to fall to before you will plug in your truck?
Where I live, it's not uncommon to see temps at night go to -35 degrees celcius (-31 F) or colder so I typically will plug in if I know the temp will drop to -15 C (5 F) or colder. But it sounds like everyone has different theories on this. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:10 am: |
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I have lived in the south my whole life so I am curious, what do you mean when you say "plug in the truck"? |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:46 am: |
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LOL...ahhh, you southerners. 
"Plugging in the truck" means Discos/vehicles where the climate gets extremely cold, will come with cold weather packages...meaning, basically a block heater. This heater sits underneath the engine that has a cord hanging out of the front grill somewhere that gets plugged into AC power...so run an extension cord from block heater to outlet in garage or house, etc. Then periodically throughout the night, the block heater comes on to keep the oil from freezing so can start the next morning. So no....Canadian Disco's are not electric.
Don't you sleep Carter? |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:00 am: |
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I've got you now, I'm familiar with the concept of block heaters I just guess I never thought about where the power comes to run them.
As for whether or not I sleep, I am in college so the answer is: No, not really. |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:27 am: |
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I plug my truck in @ - 15C at night if it is parked outside, and -20C in an unheated garage.
I have found that the humidity makes a difference.
I was less likley to get away with not plugging it in in Ontario than Cow Town.
Ross Thoma
I lived in Elloit Lake Ontario 22 years and Calgary for 6
PS I have not pliged in in Chicago over the last 3 years Mild winters here in comparison |
T
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:29 am: |
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I plug it in if temperature is below zero degrees Celsius. Using it saves the engine since the oil is not like tar in the sump at start-up, saves fuel, saves the environment and is more comfortable since cabin heat comes quicker.
I use a timer on the AC outlet so the heater runs for about two hours before I plan to leave.
/ T |
Erik G. Burrows (Erik)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:41 am: |
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Being from southern california, I too have never even seen block heaters, but I have a question:
Ok, so the heater keeps the oil from freezing, but what about the coolant? Do you end up simply running 100% anti-freeze? |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 09:13 am: |
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Erik:
There are other methods of heating engines that specifically heat the coolant. The thermal siphoning effect keeps the coolant flowing throughout the block and radiator so that when it comes time to start, you are nearly at operating temperatures.
In an earlier life, I ran a series of water utilities. As you can expect, folks expect their water (and sewers!) to continue flowing regardless of outside influences. We fitted coolant heaters on all of our emergency generators, even in the summer, it was not safe to touch the engines as they were maintained at nearly 200 degrees fahrenheit, using water heater thermostats so they would run hotter than the more modest thermostats on the factory built models. In at least one case, I built a coolant heater using PVC piping and standard water heater elements. At that point, I used water heater thermostats due to the generators being inside protective structures. When I do this on my Rover, I will use a more standard coolant temp sensor as the exposure is far greater and the need for a more robust system evident.
Personally, I prefer to heat the coolant rather than the oil as I feel it is easier to transfer heat directly to the coolant than some of the less direct oil heaters. Of course, now that I rethink this, due to the ease of accessing the oil cooler lines, it might bejust as easy to heat the oil in this fashion! Also, the molar specific heat of the water is such that it is a better medium to heat, rather than the oil.
Paul |
Milan (Milan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 10:51 am: |
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Alan,
I too plug it in at around -15. However, I find if driven daily, my trucks will start at -37 without plugging in (and my Bronco doesn't even have a choke), I just cringe when I feel how stiff everything is. Plugging it in makes it so much nicer for the truck. |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:36 am: |
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Hi Milan,
Ya I've forgotten to plug in before when it's dropped to -25+ and my truck started fine but everything is like an ice cube inside and the truck really doesn't like it. But it's made a big difference switching over to synthetic for cold weather starting. My old Pathfinder was the same way. I sometimes didn't even bother plugging in because the darn thing always started. With natural oil, if I ever forgot, I was in deep caca.
But some people plug in at 0 which I think might be a bit warm. I also think that sometimes vehicles get a bit touchy if you plug in all the time at warmer temperatures. Not sure if this is just a perception thing or if there's some reasoning behind it, but I find if you consistently plug in at a lower temp like -15, truck seems tougher and starts easily but if you plug in at higher temps all the time and you suddenly don't, it seems that the vehicle labors a bit or doesn't seem to like it at slightly lower temps like -10 or -15. Maybe it's just me... |
Shawn McKenzie (Shawn)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:16 pm: |
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Alan,
I'm in the <-15C club for plugging in. I also couldn't believe the difference using synthetics makes in the good old Alberta winter. I run 75-90W in the differentials and 5W50 in the motor all year long.
Takes the "cringe" out of that first block of driving at -35C because you know that the lubricant is not a block of shoe polish in the bottom of the axle/oil pan. FWIW, I don't have access to a garage.
Shawn |
Milan (Milan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 02:38 pm: |
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Alan,
I have synthetics in all my vehicles and yes it does help. I also agree that vehicles, for some odd reason, need to be "conditioned". It does not make sense to me either but the hard reality is that if you plug it in even during milder cold, the vehicle will not start in extreme cold without plugging it in first.
I believe in big, strong batteries and letting the vehicle warm up a bit before taking off. Plug it in only when it's really cold. My old truck does not even get that benefit but it does start every morning no matter what the temperature. But it has to be driven daily. |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 03:24 pm: |
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Shawn - are you in CowTown or Edmonton? I don't have a garage either (building it next year) so it sucks having to go out and scrape in cold weather. Especially sucks if you get this ice-rain crap we've been getting lately. Might as well get my hockey stick and whack the windshield to try and get the ice off...
Milan - ya as soon as I bought my Disco, I had them switch over to synthetic. I ran synth oil in my Pathfinder too and found it ran smoother and can go longer between changes so basically worked out to the same cost. "Conditioning"...that was the word I was looking for. I don't warm up very long though, more like the time it takes me to scrape all the windows or take the garbage out adn then I'm gone. Milan, are you running synth anywhere else in your truck? (ie. in diffs like Shawn) |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 03:56 pm: |
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Paul
The down side to warming uo the coolent only is the fact that the oil in the pan diesn't get the direct benefit of accually heating up th oil. Sure the heater starts putting out heat as soon as the water starts circulating BUT the oil is still like Molasis in january (thick and not runny) and we want to get the oil pumping properly asap IE: thinner oil in winter and this is where synth oil helps alot. I found the clanking quieted doun faster when pluged in and faser still when pluged in and with synth.
Less noise = more protection
Alan, In Zama Lake in NOOORTHERN Alberta.
I've started up in -42C without pluging in. And "Betsy" was pissed at me, she sounded like a diesel for at least 45 seconds be fore the oil got coaxed to loosen up and quiet things down.
Sorry for the rant
Ross Thoma |
Milan (Milan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:09 pm: |
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The idea of the coolant heater is to warm up the coolant, circulate it around the block, thus warm up the block and oil as well. In extremes, the oil may not really get warmed up but the warmer block should come up to operating temperature quickly and thus the oil will not stay thick as long as it would with the engine not plugged in. All in all not perfect but a pretty good solution that actually works.
Alan,
I run synthetics everywhere. I even use synthetic grease on the wheel bearings and u-joints. |
Greekrover
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:39 pm: |
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100% antifreeze will freeze. use 65 %antifreeze 35% water for freeze protection down to -60F
George saitanis |
Ron
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 09:05 pm: |
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You guys are killing me.
Can't wait to get back north
Ron |
Alan Yim (Alan)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 09:16 pm: |
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Ron - you can't wait to get back north??? You miss frigid cold, snow storms from hell, ice-rain??? You feelin' ok? |
Ron
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 09:30 pm: |
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I feel fine. I miss western NY. I was up there during the storm last year. wooooooo hooooooo
Nothing like driving through and seeing nothing but 10ft tall piles of snow on the side of the road. I am planning a trip to northern ontario this winter. Got my chains, and my sorrels and I am ready to go.
Ron |
Shawn McKenzie (Shawn)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 12:58 am: |
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Alan,
I'm in Calgary, home of the ex-Grey Cup Champions!  I liked the image of de-icing with a hockey stick! I think the heated garage will help!
Ross, you win on the "I'm colder than you bastards" front. 
But I really love those BFG AT-KO's in the snow! Especially when I'm tugging Exploders out of the ditch. |
Milan (Milan)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 01:51 am: |
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Ron,
Wanna trade? I absolutely love snow wheeling and driving but everything else about it gives me stomach ulcers - road salt, cold that freezes the wipers, gravel that cracks the windshield, other drivers that go very slow, other drivers that go very fast, sanding trucks, semis that won't let you pass and spray you with road salt and gravel from the sanding trucks, road salt, salty water left on the road when the snow melts and you just washed your Disco, no traction XPCs, road salt and more road salt. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 09:09 am: |
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George:
It depends upon which coolant you are using to determine the point at which neat glycols will solidify. Ethylene glycol has a freezing point of surprisingly, only +9'F, whereas propylene glycol has a neat freezing point of -60' F.
I was surprised to learn this after looking it up in response to your post.
Curious physical chemistry, we can take two compounds with different freezing points, mix them together and result in a mixture with a lower freezing point than either of them neat.
Neat, huh!
Paul |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 05:27 pm: |
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Yeah Cool...
Hey Ron, Where in northern Ontario are you going????
Ross Thoma |
Ron
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 05:34 pm: |
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The Papineau Labelle forest reserve is the plan.
Ron |
greekrover
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 11:48 pm: |
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Most common antifrezes used today,are ethylyne clycol thats why at least 30% water is needed in them to maximise the freezing point ,ie-60 to -80 degrees .
The least popular and much less toxic ie sierra brand is made of propulene clycol but they still recommend 30% water for lower freezing point.
I personally use the DEXCOOL type of antifreeze in all my vehicles and change it at lest every 2 years and never had any cooling problems no matter what the enviromental conditions.
George Saitanis |
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