| Author |
Message |
    
Matt
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 07:52 pm: | 
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I already have 3 Hella 4000 lights on the SG bumper. I was thinking of adding lights to my roofrack.
1. Is it overkill. I seem to do fine at night with what I have but I have been told roofrack lights are even better.
2. What are good, medium price range lights?
3. Does it matter from the outside of the rack compaired to the inner lights?
4. Any one have used lights? |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:11 pm: |
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Matt,
Roof Rack lighting adds a whole new level to driving at night. Since you already have 3 Hella 4k's on your bumper, I would put 4 more on the rack. At a total of 53.8 amps of power draw, you would have a lot of light! 
What lights to choose in regards to mounting position depends on where you drive and / or type of terrain. The most recommended configurations are:
2 Euro Beam in the center, 1 corner beam on each flank OR 2 pencil beam in the center and 1 corner on each flank.
This website http://catalog.com/susq/index.htm has some great info and prices on lights.
Paul
'00 Pig |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:31 pm: |
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1. How often do you endup still on the trail after dark? If "lots!" is your answer, then go for it...and see number 2...
2. Have you thought about Rock lamps? |
Clif Ashley (Cta586)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:38 pm: |
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If you're concerned about expense... I can say that you should be happy with 4 Hella 500s on the rack, especially w/ the 3 4000s on the bumper.
You should only pay ~$70 a pair for the 500s w/ wiring harness, covers & switch.
Obviously, if you do the 4000s up there it would be better. But I have no doubt that you will be satisfied with 500s. |
Jack
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 09:58 pm: |
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RJ-- what are Rock Lamps |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 10:03 pm: |
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small inexpensive lighting usually installed under the truck (often just inboard of the Rocker protection) to illuminate hazzards while crawling past dark. Very helpful to you in tight situations at night...well, when you're wheeling anyhow LOL, as far as the other tight situations.... |
RJ Clayton (Tozovr)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 10:07 pm: |
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here's a write up from a Toyota site... Rock Lamp Write Up |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 11:00 pm: |
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Roof rack lights really are just for the sexy look. I have 4 on my roof and they do OK for me but I only have 2 Hella 500 on my front bumper for night highway driving.
I have 4 Hella FF300's on my roof and I get some relections on my windscreen so to be honest if I had to do it all over i would go for some 4000's on my front bumper and none on the roof. I would get 1 or 2 for each side and 1 or 2 for the back. Rock lamps are great and if you do alot of trail riding at night they are a must.
Oh and the installation is kinda a pain. I ran the wires through the roof. |
Jim
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 08:56 am: |
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I see alot of pencil or fog beams but no corner lights. Are they just regular lights angled differently? |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 09:15 am: |
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Jim,
More of a spread out angle. Two flanking cornering beams set up with the Euro / Pencils will creat a panaramic effect in front of your truck. |
Ramsay (3toedsloth)
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 10:13 am: |
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When I trimmed the plastic mess off the bottom of my front bumper I mounted the newly homeless fog lights underneath as 'rock' lights. Personally I end up needing them more in my driveway than I do on the trail, so I like to call them 'Wish I had started this project at noon instead of 5pm lights'. I've got a couple of pictures (of questionable quality) if anyone is interested. Taking this route eliminates the need for a new switch/relay/wiring route. Later ya'll...
JR |
Jack Quinlan (Jsq)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 01:50 pm: |
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I just ordered (4) 4000s from Susquehana (2 euros 2 cornering) and a double halogen rear work lamp. That guy is great and his prices are the best I've ever seen. He even gave me the cornering ones at the euro sale price. it's a small rally shop and he was happy to have a "big bucks" landie customer. Shipped immediately. He's selling 4ks with covers and a wiring harness with switch for $238 a pair.
plus he's happy to talk about petter solberg winning the rally GB and why rally can't take off in the states.
give him a call! |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:11 pm: |
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Matt, in my opinion Hella 4000's are overkill for roof rack lights. I like to do night 4x4, and typiclly you don't need to see 1500 feet in front unless you are doing rally. I need to see what is in directly in front and maybe 30 feet out so I know whats comming. 4000's just seem like overkill and $$$.
I have the FF300 and I got 2 sets of 2 lights and I spent alittle over $300 for the 4 lights, 2 wiring harnesses, 4 covers and 2 switches. One set is driving and 1 set is fog. I have 2 middle lights driving to shine far out and 2 outside to shine down and just to the outside. This way I get good coverage and did not pay big bucks for more light than I need.
I have 500 on my bumper because I also do alot of night road driving but i would like to get 2 4000's for the front bumper.
My 2 cents.
Oh and if you are doing alot of night 4x4, don't forget your rock lamps! |
Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:14 pm: |
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If you go for the 4000s, remember you can upgrade the bulb from the 100W to the 130W, a cheap way to get 30% more light. Hella says you can do this.
Dean |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:20 pm: |
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Susquehana??
Is there a web site for him.
ps Marcus Gronholm (SP?) Is unstopable in his 206... and I am a Subaru guy... |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:45 pm: |
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Susquehana
I think the FF300's on Sam Yu's Disco look great:
Check out that beam pattern:
 |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:49 pm: |
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Thats what mine looks like but my outside ones aluminate more around the outside as they are fogs. My only problem with them is they shine on the windscreen some but not enouph to bother me much. You can kinda see that on the second picture.
WOW, that place has good prices!!!!! |
Kirk Thibault
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 08:44 pm: |
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hey folks, with respect to roof rack lighting, any suggestions for harness routing from the engine compartment/relays to the roof for a DS2?
Thanks! KT
PS - MG's Peugeot 206 is stoppable when it is on its roof! |
Jack Quinlan (Jsq)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 10:57 pm: |
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Marcus is unstoppable but a little sleep inducing. At least Gilles Panizzi knows how to "reward" the fans. Personally, I'd hoped Sebastien Loeb would have made more of a debut after graduating from super 1600s.
I only spent about 500 bucks and I got (4) 4000s and a double halogen work lamp. I don't consider that very expensive and I'm going to have as much light as I could possibly use. |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 06:56 am: |
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Kirk,
I routed my wiring under the passenger side A-arm faring and through a hole in the sheet metal in the engine bay. The 3 Hella Relays are sheet metal screwed into the top aft engine bay bulkhead and I used Home Depot flexible conduit for routing. Email me at [email protected] if you want photos.
Eric,
Repeat after me: "You never have enough light" "You never have enough light"
Paul
'00 Pig |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 09:04 am: |
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I did a similar routing to Paul, Kirk, but I would suggest talking to Greg Davis about his routing. Both Paul and I took the A-arm outside faring off to route wires and neither of us could get it back on properly. There is still a gap between the rubber and windshield.
Greg Davis on the other hand, used single wire, about 14 gauge (which Paul used also), but Greg on the other hand took the wire, one at a time and worked it under the fairing with it still attached. He slid it under the rubber and it looked great at MAR. If I could do mine over again and start with a new, properly seated fairing, I would do this. At some point in time, I may have a new fairing installed and do this anyway. |
Jeremy J Parkhouse
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 09:11 am: |
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I've just fitted 4 x Hella 4000's to my 'new' Safety Devices rack....as you say they look greaaaat!! Trouble is I am still in the process of doing the wiring loom bit. Pozeur or what!
I also have a rear worklight, Hella 90601B bought from Susquehanna. Website is www.rallylights.com. He managed to ship all the way to me here in Saudi Arabia.
By the way, anyone know what type of box those are on the rack of Sam Yu's vehicle...I neeeeed some!!
Cheers for now
Jeremy Parkhouse
Disco II '02
Dhahran Saudi Arabia |
Tripp Westbrook (Tripp)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:17 am: |
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I was talking to a service guy at a LR dealership and he was telling me that on the Trek vehicles, they removed the factory roof rack bars (since they're useless under the adventure rack) an put rubber grommets in the remaining holes. They then routed the aux. light wiring through one of the grommets and into the interior. The wires were then fished to (and through) the firewall for a clean look.
I'm not sure I want to go through all of that, but there it is.
T- |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:30 am: |
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Jeremy - click here for the cases on Sam's roof rack. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:33 am: |
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Do LR Adventure roof rack-mounted Hella 4000 Euro, pencils, fogs, corners, etc shine down onto/into the windshield when you aim them for optimum line of sight? From what Eric is saying (and also looking at that pic of Sam), it seems like the FF300's do......... |
Eric Pena (Evalp)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:38 am: |
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Paul, LOL
I would agree with you, you can never have enouph. I have 13 lights on my vehichle and I use every one of them.
Trip, I wish I would have thought of that. I left the rails on and drilled another hole in the roof.
Blue, good question. Anyone with some other lights have a some light reflect on the windscreen? |
mongo
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:46 am: |
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Hey Blue,
they don't shine on the windshield, just the hood, hence the blackout. I have the cornering/euro (4000's) set-up on my rook rack and it ROCKS!...plus 2 4000's on my pos arb...
no complaints, works great in all conditions...desert,mountains,tree's seen it all and wouldn't change a thing...
Cheers,
Frank
also have 2 55 watt works lights on the back... |
john vigg (Johnvigg)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 11:23 am: |
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When i ran the wires up my A pillar,
i ran 3 on the drivers side, all the + ones
for the back, outter and inner, and i thin it was 14 g.
then to make up for space, i ran the ground up the passenger side, that was 12 g.
I used black RTV sealant, glues it back donw, you cant even see the spaces,
i took pictures for you guys, they're at
http://www.viggdesigns.com/ourcars/disco.htm |
Jack Quinlan (Jsq)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:57 pm: |
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what about the factory method I have seen:
They run all the wiring from the lights into a bundle and then notch the rain gutter and weather stripping at the upper right hand corner of the driver side door. Then they run the bundle throught the notch and then into the top of the interior pillar cover and down into the dash.
anyone else tried this method?
Do you get all sorts of wind noise with the gap in the weather stripping?
just curious. |
Kirk Thibault
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 10:53 am: |
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Thanks for all of the informative replies to my post - here's the next part of the puzzle:
Assuming I use genuine fog lamp switches, how do I access the back of the instrument panel? Can I do an arthroscopic approach through the binnacles (I have 5 switch positions available, 4 left, 1 right) or do I have to remove the instrument panel. I assume I need to get access to the firewall/bulkhead to pass wiring from the engine compartment to the interior. Is removal of the instrument panel a pain in the ass or is it just a matter of removing all of the (likely concealed) connectors?
Thanks again folks.
Kirk |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 01:19 pm: |
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Jack,
The problem I would have with running the wires down from the roof and into the truck would be keeping them from bringing water in. I thought about running wires into the rear of the truck, but teh same thing. Water is going to run down those wires. I would go into the hood.
Kirk,
The instrument panel is an easy remove. Take less than 10 minutes. Just grab a small screwdriver. An angled ratchet deal, sears innovation, would work great, as you can't get the steering wheel out of the way. Basically, remove the 8 switches or blanks from the binnacle. There are two screws to remove below the instrument guage and just above the steering wheel. Then, the binacle will be free, except for a big tab in the rear. You can take a flash light and get a glimps of the tab through some of the openings and play, but if I remember correctly it lifts up and towards you.
Once the binnacle is out, the instrument cluster is held in by two screws and there is a couple of wire plugs in the rear to remove. Just look at them, and they have a tab to depress and they pop right off. You can completely remove the gauges. Then, if you need to move the existing switch wires around, just remove the wire tie, move them, and replace the wire ties.
I ran factory switches down teh left side. I used 4 switches. I have rear fogs, so I moved the rear fog to the lower right side. I used cruise control switches for the lights, and used the caps off of front and rear fogs for the covers. I need to get one more rear fog cover. For side and rear lights, I'm using a ash tray light switch setup. If I didn't have rear fogs though, I would have put a rear light in the right lower binnacle setting.
I'm in the philly area if you want to take a look at mine some time.
Greg |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:09 pm: |
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how about a couple pics of your dash switch layout Greg? |
Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:54 pm: |
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I like this one in particular:
www.discoweb.org/bbspics/794.jpg |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:15 pm: |
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Blue, I don't have a digital camera unfortunately, but I'll see if I can borrow one.
Greg |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:33 pm: |
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I'll have pics shortly of the dash switches. The camera quit working correctly so I didn't get the fuse/relay panel I built into the jack compartment, nor the wire routing from the roof rack. Sorry. Will post the others in a minute or two. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:44 pm: |
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 |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:49 pm: |
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Blue,
If you notice, my left binacle has a front fog, two rear fogs and a front fog. The front fogs have a curved top that wont fit into the lower spots very well, even when trimmed. I will replace the lowest one with another rear fog, and then will have 1 front, followed by 3 rears. The bottom right binacle is a front fog turned upside down. This was because I ended up with extra fronts and not enough rears. I stole the rear one off to put on the other side. A front one will stay here for the rear fogs.
The coin tray setup is only using one switch right now and that is the center one for the rear work light. The left and right were reserved for side work lights at some point.
Hope the pics help. I don't have install pics unfortunately. I do think Paul Morgan may have snaped an install pic or two when I was fighting with the guage cluster wiring, but I"m not sure where they are. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:18 pm: |
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cool Greg...that's what I'm talkin about - a clean, custom, factory look. Very subtle and effective. |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:21 pm: |
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Quote:Roof rack lights really are just for the sexy look
in fact, they don't differ much from bumper-mounted lights. 7/8 of the way on the scale from Tornado to roof rack ladder.
peter |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 10:39 am: |
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Thanks blue. Now that my switches are so stealthy, no one will know that I've modded my truck with lights. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 11:57 am: |
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Blue, and others:
Got the camera to work again, so here is the fuse/relay panel and the wiring going into the fairing:
 |
Eric
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 01:35 pm: |
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I have a 99 disco 1 and I just installed four Hella black magic (rallye 1000) lamps on my expedition rack. I drive some winding mountain roads where large animals tend to jump in front of the vehicle, and where oncoming traffic is sparse.
So, for the wiring part I decided to hook the relay to my high beams. But I wanted the option of being able to turn the two Hellas on the driver's side off, in the case of heavy traffic.
Here's what I did. I dropped the console from the headliner and took it out of the vehicle. I mounted the two relays, one for the drivers side and one for the passenger side lights, right into the console. I mounted the Hella backlit rocker switches into the console. And then I wired my own harness with one switch to one relay for each pair of lamps.
Doing it this way only required two 12 GA wires to be run into the engine compartment, +12VDC from the battery, and +12VDC from the high beam (headlamp socket). These two wires run above the headliner to the passenger side winsheild frame on the interior. A panel pops free allowing access to the bare frame, and other LR wires follow this path. Then down below the dash on the passenger side floor well an access panel comes off with two screws and there is a rubber bulkhead gromet which leads to the engine compartment.
The two 12GA +12vdc primary Lamp wires from the relays go through the headliner and out the holes left behind from the stock rack rails removed. In order to make this work a grounding strap from the rack to the roof sheet metal is required. Also, under the headliner there are two grounding fasteners for the dome lamp which I used to ground the relays.
I used the Hella wiring loom for all the bits and pieces. The switches are placed intuitively enough for the three women drivers in the family to understand, in the headliner console... left is left and right is right, if the switch is illuminated... the lights are on.
And the best part is that I can flick them off with the highbeam stalk when an oncomming car gets near. Also, the black magic Hellas produce less glare on the hood becuase of the black plastic inserts on the reflectors.
Eric |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 04:06 pm: |
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One more question about all of this stuff:
Where can I find or what can I make to to label my switches?
#1 is obviously the rear fog
#2 is the Center Euro Beams
#3 is the cornering beams
#4 is the Back up light
Paul
'00 Pig |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 04:28 pm: |
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Possibility:
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p74.htm |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 05:13 pm: |
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Also, check these:
http://www.johnnasta.com/6898/resources/Decals-Labels.html
This link has multiple listings, including one that mentions stencils. I would search for restoration places that cater to old car restorations, as they may have transfers or stencils available with simple lighting info. like you are searching for. |
Neal Glessner (Nealg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 08:25 pm: |
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Where do you get the switches that fit in the coin tray? Aprox what are the cost? |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 08:58 pm: |
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Neal,
I got the coin tray frame piece and switches from Nathan at discount rovers. The frame was $12 I think and the switches were around $11 each. They don't come with the pig tail, so you will need to make your own wiring connections using female connectors. Don't remember the size though.
Greg |
Rich Lee
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 09:36 pm: |
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Greg P.,
The front and rear fog switches for the D2s are all "momentary" switches that briefly "ground" the circuit when you press it (first push "on", second push "off"). This obviously controls some sort of "latching" circuit that involves more sophisticated electronics, like the circuit that runs the rear defroster in both the D1 and D2.
How did you wire these switches to your light relay circuit? Did you buy a Land Rover Aux light harness for each lighting circuit ($185 each) or make up your own relay / switching system that works reliably with these momentary switches?
If so, could you post the wiring diagram?
Thanks |
Wes Legaspi (Wes)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 10:24 pm: |
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WIth all the lights, I dont think anyone mentioned anything about power...anyone running off just one battery or is a dual battery set up required?
thanks |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 07:18 am: |
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Rich and Wes,
If it helps, I did not use the momentary switches. I purchased 3 rear wiper light switches from LR and swapped out covers from my blank switches (see pic above). On my Pig, I connected all three #1 pins from my switches in series and then routed to the DS parking light for the switch power. Check out www.discoweb.org/lights for diagrams and such.
I am running only 1 Battery; a Pep Boys Energizer at 900 CCA. Since the Discovery II altenator cranks out 130 amps; I decided not to add another. However, IMHO I would add a second battery if you add a winch.
Total amp draw from my Hella's are 42.86 amps. That includes 4 Hella 4k's and one Hella lamp in the rear. wattage / vdc = a (thanks kyle)
Anyway, you can email me at [email protected].
Paul
'00 Pig |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 08:14 am: |
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Like Paul, I didn't use the fog switches. The left side of my binacle is wired using Cruise control switches. I then bought fog switches and exchanged the caps from the fog swtiches with those of the cruise switches. The light pattern is the same on the rear wiper and cruise control, as it is on the fog switches, so you can simply interchange the caps to get latching fog switches that light up. Paul's are the same as mine, but he used bank covers for his. He could still exchange for fog covers and his would be lighted. |
john vigg (Johnvigg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 10:23 am: |
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Hey if you need stencils for lettering your switches, give me a call
i own a sign shop, so thats very easy for us
(888)315-VIGG
http://www.viggdesigns.com
john |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 10:36 am: |
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I am hitting your website now....... |
Rich Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 05:38 pm: |
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Greg,
Thanks for the info, that explains everything.
So the D2 aux light covers simply snap over the latching switches?
John Vigg,
Is your carbon fiber material flexible enough to cover the dash moldings on a D2? How about a KVT bumper? It might also make for a "cooler" hood blackout than your standard pre-cut one.
How about "Zebra" stripe kits or "Holstein Cow" spot kits.
While we're at it:
"Faux Mud" decals in various regional soil types.
"Real Rivets" for those with series or D90/110 envy.
Hell,why not get someone with a black Disco to do the full body "Carbon" cover treatment.
BTW, how durable is this stuff compared to rover paint? Could you laminate it to a stronger backing, like a thinner version of the thick film that Susquehanna & others sell to protect headlights and sell that as protective "cladding" against scratches (for those who did not buy white Discos)?
The mind reels at the possibilities.
Seriously, What would you charge for door stickers? Could you do them in either strong magnetic backing (for steel D2 doors) or re-usable weatherproof stick-on (for alloy D1 doors) . I work with several EMS/Disaster/SAR groups that use their daily drivers for call-outs and it would be nice to have easily-identified vehicles for on-duty use.
Thanks,
Rich |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 06:45 pm: |
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Rich,
To see what I mean about switch covers, take one of the blank switches out of your binacle. With that out, now take a small flat head screw driver, and pop the cover off. When you look, you will see what I mean. The covers come off this way on all of them. The only difference on the lighted switches with indicator light, light the fogs, cruise and rear wiper, is that they have a small plastic insert that is what you are seeing light up.
These are easy to use for making switches, using the blanks like Paul did and then applying stickers or transfers, or using the caps off other switches like I did. The bad part about my version is it costs more.
Good luck. |
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