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Author Message   Hank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 02:31 pm:    How are you guys getting the 9.00 XZL's to fit on the D1?? Pics, suggestions?   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 03:02 pm:    There are some DI's with the 8.25's(34"), but I don't know of any with the 9.00's.   Parrish R. Blackmon (Discoveryfl) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 03:25 pm:    What the hell is a 9.00 XZL?   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 03:36 pm:    Go to ExpeditionExchange.com. I'm in the process of fitting some 9.00x16 XL's to my DII.   Al Cruz (Alc) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 04:01 pm:    Nice comparison there! I take it the smaller tire are 265/75/16's? Those 9.00 are huge!   Hank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 04:12 pm:    Cool, post the pics upon completion!   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 04:18 pm:    Actually, those are my 285's.   Michael Noe (Noee) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 04:23 pm:    Yeah!!!   Will Roeder (Will_Roeder) Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 04:50 pm:    Greg...you test fitted those things yet? any more pics? will   Blake Luse (Muddyrover) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 02:10 am:    i always liked the tread on those can't wait for the pics   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 10:17 am:    they are crazy loud on road, like a fire whistle grinding down... rd   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 10:21 am:    Nope, no test fitting yet. Haven't gotten my nerve up enough. Yes, they'll be loud. But I've actually talked to a couple of guys in CA that used to run Swampers and switched to these and they are supposedly quieter and more road friendly. These won't be my daily drivers so I can put up with them for playing.   adtoolco Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 12:37 pm:    Greg, Any worry about axel breakage? Have you upgraded? -Chris   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 01:04 pm:    Yes, I'll worry about it. But my choices are this; 1. Order the HD axles, then try to explain to the wife why I spent $600 for parts that aren't broken, and will be needed because I chose to install tires that are even BIGGER than what I already have. 2. Wait until the axle breaks. Then, order the HD axles and proudly state that I found axles that are stronger than stock and cost less! I'm opting for #2 for obvious reasons. Any married D-Webbers will understand.   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 01:16 pm:    Damn Greg, That's a lot of meat!   adtoolco Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 01:32 pm:    Just out of curiosity. What makes the HD axles stronger than stock? Are they slightly beefier? Or is the material choice different/stronger? Heat treat/cryo? Etc... I own a machine shop and would consider making a set for myself, titanium maybe:-) Any engineers out there with suggestions? -Chris   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 01:43 pm:    Chris, from what I gathered from Bill @ GBR, it's a higher strength material. Don't know if they're treated or not, but I'm sure if they're not, he could get some that way. He can pretty much get whatever you need. Paul, if I had a nickel everytime.... When you moving out this way? We're making a run to the mountains first week in Dec. We'd love to have you tag along.   Max Thomason (Lrmax) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 03:55 pm:    I want 35s on my rover . Maybe one day . Greg, you will be the only disco in Charlotte with that kind of meat on it. After you fit them, go freak out the guys over at LR Charlotte . BTW, Tell me when you get tired of em' and I'll come pick them up . Max T. Can anyone spare about 2000 bucks so I can get tires and other upgrades?   JC Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:15 pm:    Max, Just wait till I get home this summer Jon   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:15 pm:    so where can ya get the 8.25?   Blake Luse (Muddyrover) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:21 pm:    EE i believe   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:25 pm:    From EE's site as I was also curious: "We'd love to carry the smaller sizes as well, but Michelin USA is completely out of the 8.25 and 7.50 sizes. We asked if Michelin would bring back the 8.25 and 7.50 sizes, and Michelin's response was "unknown". As with most things, time will tell. So for the time being, only the 9.00's are available." Jaime   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:36 pm:    it would be really hard to commit to a tire of that price unless i knew i would be able to get more when I need them bummer   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:53 pm:    hell Musky, just buy 8 of them at once and then you'll have spares! Jaime   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:06 pm:    cant seam to find 5 let alone 8   Ken Dunnington (Ihwillys) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:46 pm:    Chris, currently the best axle material is 300M. It's expensive though. Ken   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 05:49 pm:    my buddy the metalurgist chuckles when people talk of better material and his only reply is diameter!   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 06:15 pm:    only 5 you want? http://www.expeditionexchange.com/hoshos/DCP_1272.jpg   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 06:16 pm:    hay ho you post like me   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 06:21 pm:    hmm, what you talking about?   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 06:26 pm:    Those are different tires though Ho. Tread pattern is different. The ones that Greg got his hands on are pretty nice. I think I'm still going to go with the Swamper LTBs though.   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 06:27 pm:    sneeky   \Mike... (Mpeters) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 06:43 pm:    so greg - are you going to be in the process of fitting these in time for your trip in december? i'm sure we would all like to see that DSII strutting its stuff offroad with these nice looking tires you got there.   Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco) Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 09:57 pm:    Ken, 300M? I never heard of this? Stainless possibly??? -Chris   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 09:44 am:    Mike, unfortunately not. I'm trying to make sure that I think this through completely before I start hacking away. In all honesty, I am now considering moving my rear axle back several inches so I don't get into my rear door. I've got a few ideas on how to do this, but just want to be sure before I commit. This whole project is snowballing VERY quickly!   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 09:54 am:    musky. why does your metalurgist friend laugh? does he not know anything about metalurgy? material is king. for instance, aluminum axel 2" diam is still gonna break when you compare to 1" high grade steel. the whole point of metalurgy is to engineer the material for the application and the prexisting or future constraints that may or maynot be exposed to it.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 11:23 am:    "the whole point of metalurgy is to engineer the material for the application and the prexisting or future constraints that may or maynot be exposed to it." and not waste material or go overboard - of course a 10" steel axle is going to be bomb proof, but how realistic or appropriate is a 10" axle?   muskyman Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:00 pm:    rob, his point is because it asumes that oem shafts are all made out of shit materials and thats just not so. when land rover has to warrenty front inner axle shafts do you think they just buy shit? acording to my buddie the metalurgist if you put all forms of steal alloy through destructive tests you come back to the fact that by increasing the diameter to the next size you get more strength then using a super duper arospace this and that alloy. companies like Dana have been working hard on perfecting there alloys, and hardening processes for decades,yet if you ask them strength comes from diameter increases.and if you want a stronger axle you need to move up to thicker one. yes some new treatment technology has come about such as cryogenics and such but the facts are it dosent get you "twice" as much strength as some resellers of aftermarket axles would like you to believe. thats why the smart ones sell kits designed to increase the diameter. they are getting the strength through increasing the crossectional area of the shaft. look at the chart below at the direct relationship of diameter to strength, if you could really just use better material and make a 30spline twice as strong by using better material dont you think all those desert racer guys would just use better LIGHTER skinny axles? 30 Spline - 6,200 ft. lbs. (per axle) 31 spline - 7,000 ft. lbs. (per axle) 33 spline - 8,200 ft. lbs. (per axle) 35 spline - 9,600 ft. lbs. (per axle) 40 spline - 12,000 ft. lbs. (per axle) dont believe me call the guys that make the axles. dutchman,summers brothers,moser,dana...ect ect dont just read the marketing on there sites call and talk to them when it comes right down to it they all will tell you that if you really want to increase your strength by any real margin you need to increase the diameter of the shaft. I have personally talked with many of these axle companies and what they have told me jives 100% with what my buddy the metalurgist preaches so I believe it to be true. now that all said I have cryo'ed a number of front stub shafts for my scout and they do seam to make them less failure prone but I'm not gonna sit here and say they are twice as strong. maybe a small gain is enough in many respects and if it is maybe a slightly stronger axle is all some people need greg davis, I think you are very correct in your taking time to sort things out for those big meats. some research into what guys are using to prevent breakage to run 36" tires on similar weight vehicles will show that under hard condition the general opinion of most guys over the years is at least 30 spline for over 35" any bigger then 35" tires and your gonna need more axle. so IMHO if you really want to wheel those big guys sell your current axles have someone like Terra or dyna track build you an awsome 35 spline end to end front and back axle and be done with axle breakage. at the cost of the rocket science rover stuff around youd be ahead in the short or long run   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:15 pm:    your right, i don't believe you. automotive companies are interested in getting buy with the absolute minimum to save money. they want an axel to _just_ be strong enough to last. when you are constrained buy sizes you turn to metalurgy and maunacturing process to increase life and strength. "just make it bigger" is a good idea, it goes without saying. i talk to morons everyday that work for major companies that have no idea what they need, calling up dana and talking to an engineer proves nothing to me. rd   Greg Hirst (Gregh) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:35 pm:    Rob-talk to a custom axle builder then and I bet they agree with Musky (atleast from my experience). You can only go so far (and that's limited) with special alloys re: axles and you end up going to increased diameter even if you're looking at it from a strictly economical viewpoint. Strength increases at a geometric rate with diameter (assumed quality steel) and it doesn't increase at nearly that rate simply with stronger alloys- Of course now you have to custom fit that ARB to work with larger axles/splines = $$ My 2 cents GregH   muskyman Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:52 pm:    "calling up dana and talking to an engineer proves nothing to me." "your right, i don't believe you" rob, sorry for wasting your time thom   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 01:38 pm:    well of course bigger is better, every man knows that. but you don't have to just make it bigger to make it better - improving metal improves the product   muskyman Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 02:04 pm:    blue, the point is most oem axles are allready pretty good steel. they may not have as deep a hardening as a aftermarket custom one but they arent junk as most resellers of axles want you to believe. there are also a number of other reasons why bigger is better. as the axle gets larger the spline depth makes up a smaller percentage of the total crossection. because good axels need to be hard on the outside and gooey on the inside the splines then dont go as far through the hardened part of the axle. this makes the area where the sidegear stops less prone to failure. I would guess this is also why LR changed from 10 spline to 24, the more splines on the same size shaft the less deep the splines will be. the facts as best I can uncover is fancy alloys are sizzle and diameter increase is Steak! thom   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 02:28 pm:    I like Bill Davis' sense of perspective on LR axles - smaller that VW Rabbit....gets you thinking.....   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 03:03 pm:    blue, what kind of men do know big is better? to tell you the truth I don;t know shit about that one... nothing wrong if you DO know though... hehehehe Simon.   muskyman Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 03:07 pm:    yes I think he has a great handle on the axles from the point his real upgrade stuff is all based on going to larger diameter stuff. he does make some big claims on the better alloy side but then his next stage stuff is all larger diameter(REAR 30 spline) so I feel he is offering a true improvement option for the people that want to run bigger meats and pound them hard.If someone with a rover told me they had a credit card itching for a balence and needed a upgraded rear end I'd say get the GBR 30 spline axles and a locker and your done just based on the fact he has a great reputation and 30 spline is an upgrade over 24 spline. but thats just my opinion (Bill no offence meant 100% stronger in the same diameter? thats a big claim)   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 03:26 pm:    simon, my comment is based on positive feedback, not input. and to answer the question forming in your head - No, when she points between your legs and giggles, it isn't positive feedback. Sorry   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 03:35 pm:    Now Rob, just because you work for some company in rural PA with 12,000 employees worldwide, corporate annual sales that are approximately $1.6 billion, founded in 1938 by metallurgist Philip M. McKenna, and is probably the premier tooling solutions supplier in the world doesn't tell me you know anything about metalurgy and manufacturing processes. Whats that company called again - Kennametal?! lol My guess is he probably does know his shit when it comes to metal and manufacturing. Nothing against GBR, Musky, or anyone else for that matter. Jaime   muskyman Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 03:55 pm:    Jamie, so if I swept the floor at nasa I know alot about rocket science right? I aint making this shit up about axles, just repeating what I have learned from talking with axle building companys over the years . rob, not saying you sweep the floor either,show this thread to one of your metalurgists and show me where I'm wrong. I always want to learn where I am off base or misinformed. thom   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 04:05 pm:    Naw, good one though Musky! Unfair advantage on my part as I know what he does (well kinda) and for whom he works as I'm from the same neck of the woods in PA. It should be interesting to hear more, as like you, it always is the bigger is better scenario and perhaps there are some alternatives. Jaime   muskyman Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 04:19 pm:    jaime, if you have read my posts on here, I am a very option minded guy but I am also one of those guys that hates to fight the same battle over and over i guess the bottom line is there is a line where cost of exotic materials goes way over the cost of slightly bigger but way stronger. so i'd just rather go bigger right off. hence my post to greg davis, I have seen so many axles snap on anything smaller then 35spline with larger then 35" tires that spending 5k on all 30 spline shit front and back and hope it holds when you could spend 5k on 2 new custom dana 60's get 35 spline and never hava a axle issue again. its just the cheap bastard in me....some times you have to spend money to be cheap in the long run   adtoolco Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 04:40 pm:    Well lets see, 300M, 35 spline, increase diameter, heat treat & cryo. Sweet!!! Nice brainstorming fellas. Thanks. -Chris   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 05:01 pm:    Yeah, I hear you Musky and generally agree with your viewpoints. And you're also right we seem to hash this topic to death, yet, technology constantly changes. Perhaps that line of different materials vs size or possibly both material and size plus cost is starting to come together. If I remember the posts on putting a Dana under a Rover, it ended up being pretty difficult, yes?? Can't totally remember all of it. So possibly Rob can shed some light on alternative material methods. no doubt, Greg needs to do something for those big sneakers and at this point, you've given some good, proven alternatives for him or others to consider. Jaime   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 07:17 pm:    ok guys.. i ain't a metalurgist, but i have absorbed a bit of information. i attribute the manufacturing process for the increase in strength as much as metallurgy. part of the reasons for the more splines, is more surface area. the more little V's you put around the diameter the more surface contact you have. the better the metal the more splines you can put in. i am way too busy tonight to talk all over this, but i wasn't trying to argue you state your fact, i dont belive you and that is simple. no inflamation meant... lets chill this out while i go and change my "metal on metal" range rover breaks tonight. who says you have to turn down the rotors? rd   Ron Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 07:30 pm:    I can do the math and show you what gains you get with different materials but basically a 24spline 300M axle is better than a regular 30spline and close to a regular 35 spline. I can also tell you which aftermarket axle manufacturers use what alloy (believe it or not some just use stock dana blanks). But basically strange and maxidrive are the only two places you see the very best material used. But there are some pretty hard and fast truths here. 1. Greg better figure out how to change cvs and rear axles pretty quick (might want to de-loctite the rears now rather than in the field) 2. Super strong cvs are the challenge. 300M rear axles and even 300M front tiny inners will hold but getting a cv in one piece is the goal and in that sense he should pony up the $250 and send them to Bobby Long before they break. 3. Musky man is right but if I was spending 5k I would get some volvo portals not D60s. The DII suspension is nearly the perfect set up for them. There are a variety of factors but basically: A. DII (and to a lesser extent DI) stock suspension funtions best with a 2in or less lift. Anything much beyond 3 and geomety and flex etc etc all go to shit. 2in+ portals= 7in lift with only a set of springs. Sexy flexy and portals are a no no but 8in or even 10in shocks would be plently of flex and still be stable and strong. B. DII raidus arms, panhard, and rear arms are huge and overbuilt. Swap the watts linkage for a panhard and you have something that will probably cope fairly well with the extra forces of a 5in portal drop and bigger tires (very few other stock suspensions or even modified ones could handle it). They also have simple mounts which could be easily fabricated onto volvo axles. C. Volvo portals have cvs not U-joints so they are full time friendly (please don't rehash this debate) and would easily cope with 9.00XLs Ron   muskyman Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 09:41 pm:    Ron, I think the portals would be a great way to go . and I gota say a cooler way then a D60 and yes I agree that the oversized birfield joint would be way nicer on the street then a herky jerky u jointed Dana 60. awsome Idea for greg. as far as the axles strength goes. 300m is great stuff for what it is meant for. as a through hardened alloy with great ductile values it like its close cousin 4340 chrome moly will take shock loads really well. thats why they use it to build aircraft landing gear. it does have a greater perpensity to cold/work harden so it would not have the total cycle life of a induction hardened axle made of one of the high quality alloys such as 1541-H . as far as what compares to what is really hard to say as you mention its hard to know who really uses what . but to compare 300m at 1.25(24spline) with induction hardened 30 and 35 spline axles is pretty generous all the numbers I can find online seam to say that it would almost equal 1541-h at 1.33 30 spline. never the less I'm on 1.5" 35 spline 1541-h and I know your soon gonna be on portals so for us this is really a mute point.   Christopher Dynak (Adtoolco) Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:25 pm:    What are these "portals"???? -Chris   Ron Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:27 pm:    See musky you are cheating. 1541-h like Moser or Currie is substantially better than stock 1039. If you compare a 300M 24 spline to a 1039 30 or 35 spline axle you get the results I stated above, ie better than 30 and almost as good as 35. So basically you have a few tiers of materials: Best is Hy-tuff which as far as I can tell only strange and maxi-drive use very close second is 300M which you see in summers bros (which Safari garbage uses), mark williams and most of sandy cone's stuff Then you get 4340 which is sort of the generic high end chromo material similar to 300M 4140 which is not quite as good chromo EN25 and EN26 which is the eurpean nomenclature not sure of how they stack up but basically they are between 4140 and the induction hardened stuff from what I can gather. Ashcroft uses this material. Then you get induction hardened 1541-h which is the moser dutchman superior currie and the cheaper strange axles better than stock but no where near the hy-tuff/300M/4340 strength. Then you get 1039 which is what dana and likely rover uses. Basically crap compared to hy-tuff but more than adequate for stock applications. Ron   Ron Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:35 pm:    what are the portals? They are the axles off of a volvo C303. Up until about 2 months ago complete and total unobtainium, now the newest rage in the comp rock crawling thing. http://www.offroadgs.com/drive_train.htm and www.rockbuggysupply.com and www.xtremeaxle.com all carry them. The first vendor has a run of HD cvs for them in process (keep in mind you will need HD cvs when you plunk down for those 44in boggers you want) Ron   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 09:19 am:    OK. Now I am VERY afraid! But I'm still gonna try em.   Ken Dunnington (Ihwillys) Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 09:36 am:    I only mentioned 300M because materials were asked about by Chris and I have a set made of 300M(chrysler 9 5/8). Musky is right, go bigger IF you can. For me that was a big IF with my M43. It uses Chrysler 9 5/8 carrier. Strong, like D60 strong. But it had CRAP material axles from the '50s that resulted in axle shafts with strength like a D44. On a 7500 lb truck with 9.00-20 tires, that SUCKS. Hmmm, Moser, Strange, et all say the 40.5" axle length needed for the long side is too long. Strange even said they don't make 4x4 shafts anymore because of the increased non-axial loads, ummmm, ok, can we say full-floating? Yeah right, whatever. It comes down to demand, and there just aren't that many M37/M43 owners looking for axles even though the guys wheeling these things are breaking them left and right(heh). So an M37 enthusiast in Germany decides to look into making some nice rear axle shafts for the M37(same axle as M43). I get in on the ground floor and pay for a set sight unseen, untested, because the guy seems on the up and up. Anyway, a month or so later I get these shafts that are of the highest quality. Short of changing the entire axle housings to another style, which I considered but didn't want to do, you have to work with what you've got. For the Chrysler 9 5/8, it's 16 spline 1.365 axles. If you are stuck with the spline count and diameter, you might as well maximize the strength with material, atleast that's the way I see it. Daniel Tibus, the guy who made my axles has since moved to the US and ramped up his 4x4 parts production. Check out his site at: http://www.tibus-offroad.com/ He makes selectable lockers now, even for the Chrysler 9 5/8. He also makes parts for the Mog portal axles. Ken   muskyman Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 09:48 am:    greg, if you upgrade first you: 1 could still sell you stock stuff 2 could convert back to stock if you want 3 keep from having to butcher stuff that dosent need to be also keep in mind that one of the main reasons to go to bigger tires is flotation and aired down those tires will take up less room in the wheel wells. but will put even more stress on your drivlines. if you dont air them way down you will more then likely lose traction compared to smaller tires on rocks and other hard surfaces due to the reduced surface pressure . surface presure is what makes the edges of the blocks work. the only short comming of those portals would be that they would turn the otherwise very agaile truck into a lttle bit of a lumbering giant on the road, but if you do fit those 36" on a d2 your gonna end up there any ways just due to the fact a D2 is really underpowered to turn them. moral: its all trade offs with big tires. the 1% of the time on the trail you need the big meats will undermine the trucks 99% of the time you are in it.and having it set up that extreem for the trail will undermine its street use 100% of the time. but it would still be really cool and a neer 1 of a kind   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 10:00 am:    Musky, thanks for all the input. The 36"s will only see occasional use. The 33"s will remain as my daily drivers. With all that said, it's still a basket of compromises. Do I want ultimate off road ability, or good off road ability with good street manners. I'm opting for the later, but I still want a reliable vehicle, so ultimately I'll probably end up with 4.1 R&P's along with HD axles from Bill. Hopefully, that along with judicous use of the skinny pedal will allow me to survive. But damn, those Volvos WOULD be nice!!!   muskyman Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:08 pm:    Ron, by the way YOU SUCK! I woke up last night dreaming of portals no shit now I am sick and have dreamnt of chicks and cars but portals? dreaming of truck parts? your fault dude thom   Alen Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 07:27 pm:    Couldn't sleep last night because of the portals.   Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 08:23 pm:    Greg, Thom, i know where this thing sits. it drives pretty quiet, so you can sneak it out at night. spare tires in the yard. Peter   muskyman Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 01:30 am:    now thats ground clearence   Mel A. (Krawlrovr) Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 11:05 am:    I would only put portals on an off-road only truck. With the reduction gearing, your top speed will only be about 60mph.   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 11:34 am:    "Can't sleep, portals will eat me, can't sleep portals will eat me...."   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 11:36 am:    peter, what kind of articulation does it have? rd   eric Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 08:04 pm:    Three wheels have infinite articulation. What is it's roll over angle? For it's mission I doubt either are important. Eric   Ron Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 08:14 pm:    LOL thom. I dreamnt about them for two years and pestered everyone I could possibly think of to finally get a set. There is only one way to satisfy the dream ... GET THEM! I was standing out front of work (in a snotty suburb of philadelphia) and saw a U1300 Mog drive by and while everyone else was ohhh look at the tires I was like "did you see that under the axle" And they were like "I didn't see anything" and I said "exactly" Ron   Alen Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 09:35 pm:    $$$$ shipped to the states?   Ramsay (3toedsloth) Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 09:49 pm:    Wow, what the hell is that thing? I want to know more. JR   michael tillman Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 10:29 am:    The three wheeled vehicle is used to survey sandbars and other underwater features near the beach. The Army Corp. of Engineering has one in Duck, NC.   muskyman Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 03:21 pm:    "I didn't see anything" and I said "exactly" ron funny ...you where inpressed by nothing at all...just because the nothing was in the right place. I have had people in my shop all impressed with the shattered parts hanging on the wall...I am impressed by the ones still in service. its all frame of mind I guess