Does Fuel grade really matter?

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Author Message   Kristopher March (Apexdisco) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:38 am:    I've been putting 93 grade fuel in my 99 disco since I bought it last year. With gas prices on the rise, I wanted to ask other LR owners what they put in their vehicles? I was thinking about putting in regular unleaded and then just adding a can of fuel additive every time I fill up.(buying a case at the local warehouse club) Your opinions and thoughts are greatly appreciated.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:46 am:    IMHO, don't. Not that a cleaner regularly isn't a good thing, but..... Unfortunately, the 4.0 is prone to valve issues. Running lower grades of fuel will most likely ensure that you will have valve problems. Running higher octane may not prevent it, but it will at least not accelerate the issue. IMHO, YMMV, FWIW..... -L   Patrick Hartigan (Patrick) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:52 am:    I have a 97, and have always used 87 octane. Can't afford anything else. But every 6 months or so, I'll fill up twice in a row with premium. It doesn't affect how it runs at all. I think it's more psychology than engineering. 'Dateline' did a big expose' one time about how all fuel brands and qualities are mixed - if not the same. So I don't think it matters.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:56 am:    I have never used low octane gas in any car that I have ever owned.. I have always used the highest octane. I also add cleaner to that as well at least once or twice a month   Bryan Crosby (Bcroz) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 11:03 am:    According to my Rover mech, run 87 during the winter and premium during the warmer months. I have 95 and 97 discos and have yet to have valve problems using this guideline.   94Rover Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 11:12 am:    Well, here is my .02. I have always used the low grade octane- Regular Unleaded- 87(89 in some areas) in my 3.9 94SWB Range Rover County-and I've had it since "new". No fuel related problems for me at all and as you all know my 94 gets driven "like it was stolen"-I have 120,xxx miles on the odometer, and my wife and I just returned for Ground Zero(NY) yesterday, with no Rover related problems at all. The only problem for me was trying to keep my Rover in a straight line while the STRONG WINDS on the NJ turnpike tossed us around during the wee hours in the morning ride back to MD. Now my little .02 may or may not be helpful to you, but think about this. Our Land Rovers aren't just produced for North America, and my and I have been several places, and throughout our travels we have been in locations where there are only three kinds of petrol-Regular, Unleaded and the fuel named after German egineer Mr. Rudolf Diesel. Almost forgot to mention the JOY and excitement witnessed during the drive up on the turnpike... Four, count em, FOUR trailers with nothing but DISCOII's FREELANDERS, AND RANGEROVERS all headed for NJ. One of the trailers was covered with the LAND ROVER NORTH AMERICA JUNGLE PICTURE......WONDER WHAT WAS INSIDE....Gosh, I wish my camera wasn't in the back in the bag-   gil Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 11:25 am:    i think octane matters more on 96 and up GEMS discos as oppossed to 94-95 Discos. From what I was told, the computer does not take to well to 87 octane fuel. I dont know why... and yes, this is here say. maybe somebody else knows why this would effect the computer???   Milan Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 12:24 pm:    My limited knowledge tells me the octane rating is important when it comes to combustion. Usually higher octane fuel is used to prevent knocking. I'd say that if you don't experience a knock, you should be OK. Now, my dilema is when will the 96+ disco knock, when it has an anti-knock sensor? Never? Does that mean I can run low octane all the time? Probably. I'd say that with the anti-knock sensor and low octane fuel, what you'll experience is a loss of performance when under load. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong as this is purely my speculation.   Kristopher March (Apexdisco) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 12:35 pm:    When do you hear the knocking? I hear a strange knocking when I first start my Disco up in the morning and just take off without letting it warm up. It only lasts for a few seconds at best. Is this normal?   Milan Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 02:08 pm:    Normally you'd hear this under load (going uphill, under power, towing, etc.). But like I said, I think the AKS would take care of that so you would not hear it anyway. I have the engine knock upon startup too and that's different. I don't think it's normal but it's common. I'm not going to do anything about mine until something blows up.   Michael Noe (Noee) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 02:31 pm:    First, there is a difference in grade at the pump...but...it depends on the retailer *and* his/her distributor. Certainly the issues as exposed by Dateline exist, but I've personally visited a local Amoco distributor, toured his operation and spoken with him at length about this subject. Second, the octane calculation on auto gas in the USA is really a scam according to the local distributor and is not a real measure of octane level. He says if you are recommended to use premium, use it, if not, don't use it. In a bind, it's not gonna hurt anything short or long term, but what is going to cause problems is contamination of the fuel based on the refining and distribution process and all of the stops along the way to your retailer, including the retailer. Auto gas is notoriously "dirty", especially the gas with alcohol in it, not so much due to the alcohol, but due to the water that is absorbed by the alcohol that is part of the fuel. Also, never and he tells me *never* fill up your car (or plane) when the pump truck is delivering a new load at you local station. Sorry for the long post, I could go on and on with this subject...   eburrows Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:13 pm:    So if auto gas is so dirty, and with rover now including cleaning fuel additives with every service, why doesn't my truck have a fuel filter? I asked my service guy about this, and he said that in the tank, there is a screen over the pump, and that's all! No real filter, no water seperator, nothing. WTF?   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 03:39 pm:    Huh? Discos have a fuel filter.... Look in the rear wheel-well, on the gas-tank side.... -L   E Snyder Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 05:35 pm:    I occasionally will run a tank or two of mid-grade through the truck, when I'm on long trips and will be running the whole tank through in one shot. Don't know if this matters at all, but makes me feel better. When off-road, mtns, around town, higher grade. You can hear the difference in the valves, I think. I spoke with my mechanic once about this issue and he says it has to do with how the computer is set. If it is set for higher octane (as the NAS versions are), the car will run better on higher octane. I did not talk to him about the affects long term of NOT using high octane. PS- To the original poster... Would it actually be cheaper to run low-test plus octane booster in each tank than just to buy higher octane in the first place?   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 08:31 pm:    i once read (i believe in here) that the octane rating is the minimum and that the actual rating is higher. i have no idea if its true, but a pilot buddy of mine told me that the octane rating on the av-gas (i used it in my training bike) that he buys was higher than the pump was actually stickered. again i dont know if its fact but i do know that the word "minimum octane rating" does appear on the lil yellow sticker on the pump.   Kristopher March (Apexdisco) Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 10:53 am:    One last question. Leslie, you said the fuel filter is located near the gas tank. Is it wise to change yourself. And what are the steps I should take before and after I install the fuel filter? Should I do it on an empty tank?   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:50 am:    I change mine myself. On the fuel rail, there's a cap on a schrader valve, like on a bicycle tire. Take it off, push the pin, to depressurise the system first. The fuel-filter is the common in-line kind. Just loosen the nuts on both sided. Also, loosen the clamp holding it in place. Get a rag ready, because a little gas will run out. Pull it out, and replace. Easy. It's easier if you take off the rear tire, BTW... Just BE CAREFUL! Don't use a jack, get a stand to support the vehicle while working on it. Doesn't matter if the tank is empty or not. There's a bit of fuel in the fuel line and in the filter, but it's not like the tank's contents will dump out into your lap. -L   JMcD Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:51 am:    I dont know what year you disco is but on my 96 it is very easy to do, about 15 min. Doesn't matter if the tank is full or not. Disconnect battery, remove RR wheel(not necessary, but easier)Wrap rag around filter and crack the connector. It is under pressure so be careful, dont stick your face in there too close. Remove old, replace new. Recoccect battery, turn key, vroom vroom. Good luck, JMcD   JMcD Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 11:53 am:    geez Leslie, all that typing for nothing!!! Wish I'd had waited a sec. JMcD   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 12:11 pm:    Lol... -L   JMcD Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 12:13 pm:    jarhead   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 12:16 pm:    I prefer Leatherneck. heh heh.... -L   mateu Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 12:17 pm:    Is the price of premium really such a big issue? 10-15 cents more a gallon only makes a tank less than $3 more than a tank of regular unleaded. If you put in an additive with every tank at about $1.79 each, why bother. Buy the premium. I've always premium in my D1 except once, but in other cars, I get about 15% more miles out of a tank of gas when I'd use the premium. The one time I used midgrade in my Disco, I had to stop for gas much sooner than normal. The few cents extra pays you back in miles and lack of potential engine problems.   eburrows Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 12:33 pm:    I should have been more clear above: DII's don't have fuel filters. D1's do, it seems. You're lucky. I checked with my shop manual, the closest I get to a filter is a 'coarse mesh' in front of the fuel pump. Next time the shop tells me I need a valve job, I'm having them put a filter in!   Milan Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 07:12 pm:    Well here the gas is 10 cents a liter more, that's almost $9 per tank if you need a full tank. Maybe not too much but enough to consider options. $9 is 2 beer you know and that's a lot to give up.   Jeff Anderson (Groovydude) Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 08:54 pm:    Milan, Damn bud where the hell do you live that it costs $9 dollars for 2 beers??? I feel for ya..thats just not right!!   Milan Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 09:29 am:    Oh, Canada! We're getting hosed here on everything. Mostly taxes. Even the gas is I think 60 or 70% tax. The actual cost of gas is very little.   Milan Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 09:32 am:    Oh yeah, I was talking bar beer. $4-$5 a pint, so if I say $4x2 plus tip = $9.00. Highway robbery if you ask me.   drbuck Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 10:01 am:    Milan, we need to correct that value for both "high octane Canadian beer" and the Canadian dollar. One Canadian Beer=$4.00CDN but $1.63CDN=$1.00USD Therefore One Canadian Beer is $2.45USD But all Canadian Beer is 5% alcohol as opposed to many US beers which are 4% alcohol. Thus, if we correct for alcohol content $2.45USDx(4/5)=$1.96USD per beer! I think our American colleagues would agree that is pretty good value. Have a good one! And if you can't have a good one, have two! jeff. PS. If you have enough of those $1.96USD beers you will forget all about the tip...making it even more affordable! Hell, I think I am leaving work right now.   Andy Nix (Andy) Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 01:54 pm:    If you're ever in the Portland, Oregon area, stop by my house and I'll give you as many free pints from my keg as you 'need' Andy   Tim Ballard (Tballard) Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 07:39 pm:    In my 96 SE I've only used 86 octane once when I was off-roading in a remote area with nothing else available. It did not knock (the knock sensor takes care of that) but I did notice the power loss. I consider premium just part of the cost of Landrover ownership. If saving money was the main objective, you would have never bought a Discovery in the first place!!!   Milan Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:08 pm:    I thought I replied to this already. I must have previewed the message but forgot to post it. Anyway, you guys are a hoot. And Andy, thanks for the invite. I accept your offer and may take you up on it next time I blow through Portland, Or. If you're ever in Calgary, pints are on me, even at $4.50. Hehehehe Tim, that's exactly what I'd expect running lower grade fuel in a Gems equipped Disco.   SOLO Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:43 pm:    When I first bought my 96 Disco the first gas I put in was regular unleaded 87 octane and with in the first few miles the yellow check engine light came on. Returned to the dealer a few days later and had it fixed under warrenty. On the way home I put in 87 octane gas again and I wasn't even home and the light was on again. When I picked it up from the dealer the second time they asked me what kind of gas I was using I told them and they said I should use 89 octane or better. I have been using 89+ octane since and the light has never come back on. (most likly they removed the bulb) So may be there is something with the computer that senses the differance. FWIW Larry   Matt M Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:15 pm:    Milan You should live in the UK ! At the moment it is cheap - low octane is @ 72p/ltr - equiv of £3.26 (nearly $5) / gallon. (It was up to 84p/ltr a year ago) Costs me over £60 ($90-ish) to fill up from empty. I am surprised at how low octane your fuel is in the US, lowest we get here is 91, high is 98 oct. High Oct made a big diff to my Audi, but doesn't seem to do much for the LR. Matt.   Milan Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:44 pm:    The Octane ratings are lower in NA because a different scale is used. Our 92/93 is your 98, our 87 is your 91.   charlie Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:43 pm:    $90 for a tank of gas? I finally feel a lot happier living in N.California ---Charlie   Matt M Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:18 pm:    Charlie - Go on - make me feel ill, how much do you guys pay for a full tank ? Matt.   charlie Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:24 pm:    It is about $1.6-$1.8/gallon (octane91)in San Francisco. The worse was about $2.2/gallon. ---Charlie   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:27 pm:    octane ratings don't matter, it's all just a ploy from the petrochemical companies to get more money... rd save tibet   p m Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 08:56 pm:    LOL can i run my disco on whale oil? peter   SOLO Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 07:15 pm:    I saw a show on TV a few weeks ago and there was a guy who had a car that ran on used deep fryer oil. The car had some type of modified diesel motor. He said it gets great milege but it smells like french frys all the time. Larry   Ron Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 09:54 pm:    can i run my disco on whale oil? Sure if you get a diesel Tank of 93 in PA is about $25 $1.25 a gallon or so Ron   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 12:56 am:    Peter, If you've got a BW Quadra-trac, the special fluid for it is derived from whale-oil.... FYI.... Larry/SOLO, It's called biodiesel. -L   Milan Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 09:56 pm:    Well, I just put half a tank of regular into the premium that was there and ran a 180 mile trip. When I got back I topped up with regular again. I will keep using it until I hear knocking or until the engine light comes on. I will report on this later. FYI, I just had few pints of Guiness and Stella Artois on friday and when the bill came, we had over $100 in beer on there. $6.50+tax+tip per pint. Talk about rape! Even if I had no other reason to go back to Czech Republic, then beer and beer prices would be reason good enough.