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Joe M. (Little_Joe)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 09:30 am: | 
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This was buried in another thread in the General topics, I thought it might be worthwhile to post here considering the weather.
Especially if you have unsiped MT's, siping and to some extent grooving your tires will help immensely in the snow and ice.
I used the Ideal Heated Knife, ~$60, to sipe:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/sipe/
A utility knife can be used as well.
Then I went ahead and grooved the tires as well:
http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/grooved_tires/
Cutting up the tires really helped onroad and off, and this did not negatively affect tread life. Warranty is another issue...... ;-)
HTH.
joe |
R. B. Bailey (Rover50987)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 11:33 am: |
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Yes, it helps, but my dad just had to replace his A/T's after only 10k on 40k+ tires, after going "off-road" for a few days while hunting. The same company that did the siping told him that the siping had caused the damage to the tires. Evidentally rocks and stuff can get in there and rip the treads off.
However, they still maintained that siping for on-road vehicles was good. Just don't do it on a Rover that you actually take off-road.
They also said that they have only realized this problem within the last few months, and that they are no longer recomending it for people who go off-road.
http://landrover.mrbaileyshistory.net |
Mark Albrecht (Markalbrecht)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 11:46 am: |
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I siped the center tread blocks of my old BFG MT's. There was a dramatic improvement in traction on wet and icy roads. The tires did chunk up a bit with off road use -- but not too bad.
Discount Tires has a siping machine and charges $15/tire (that was a few years ago in Seattle). |
Joe M. (Little_Joe)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 01:16 pm: |
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When the sipes are cut close to the ends of the tread blocks, they will chunk easily - that's why you shouldn't cut them there. Also the outer tread blocks shouldn't be cut due to forces and spreading when wheeling.
The tire shops generally use a cutting tool that's universal and they just run it across the blocks with no regard to where the cuts are being made, which leads to cuts at the leading/trailing ends of the blocks = quick tire damage. Doing it yourself is easy to avoid this problem.
joe |
thom mathie (Muskyman)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 02:17 pm: |
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"The tire shops generally use a cutting tool that's universal and they just run it across the blocks with no regard to where the cuts are being made, which leads to cuts at the leading/trailing ends of the blocks = quick tire damage. Doing it yourself is easy to avoid this problem.
joe"
this is very contrary to what I have seen with siped tires and people doing professional siping.
all the modern siping equipment can be set to sipe any part of the tire you choose.(inside blocks,center blocks,outer blocks) It uses a cutting head that looks like a screw from a worm gear . most companys will sipe your center blocks to increase straight line traction and braking. yes they will put cuts/sipes very close to the edge of blocks but even after a buncha miles chunking will still be minimal. this tire was siped 30k ago
I have had a number of sets siped includding the tires on every vehicle I currently own and I have seen almost no chunking. even on MT's under heavy offroad use on all types of terrain still not chunking.and the improvement is nothing short of amazing on icey slick polished roads,and wet asphalt.
there are some tires that come from that factory with many sipes molded into them and those tires are not meant to be siped (michelin alpine) and they carry a small s with a x over it showing they are not to be siped.the guys at discount tire searched my michilins for this mark before they siped mine.
one other thing to keep in mind. all hand cut tires are no-longer DOT once they are cut...so if you are gonna pull out your groover be ready to replace the tires if some overly zelous cop inspects you or get denied coverage by insurance adjusters if your vehicle gets inspected after a accident. there is a box the adjusters check after inspecting the tires for wear or damage and if you have all your blocks on your boggers divided a smart adjuster may notice.
FWIW sipping is well worth it! |
thom mathie (Muskyman)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 02:20 pm: |
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Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 04:19 pm: |
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musky that looks like the stock XCL ? dont they come siiped that way? or are you saying discount tire can put that style sipe into most tires they sell (mudders)?
the chunk cutting technique that joe shows will help i imagine, but i want what you are showing.
like a mudd terraine version of this:
http://www.roverparts.com/ProductList.asp?ListType=DETAIL&PartNumber=9625
interesting, while ssearching snow tire on google image i found this:
http://www.alaska.net/~dunnx2/ford.jpg
rd |
thom mathie (Muskyman)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 04:28 pm: |
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the squigly lines are factory
the razor blade thin marks circled in blue are the sipes
sipes dont remove any material they create a sharp cutting edge that only open on contact with the ground...they are truley razor thin cuts
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thom mathie (Muskyman)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 04:30 pm: |
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Mark Albrecht (Markalbrecht)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 04:54 pm: |
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RD: The siping at Discount Tires (at least for me) was only in straight lines -- no squiggles.
P.S. you should just chuck the snow tires and go with MatTracks: http://www.mattracks.com/ |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 05:17 pm: |
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ahh,,, ok i see it now.
i get the whole concept of the razour line but i like the squiglies too.
mattracks are indeed bad ass, but it takes all the fun out of it.
rd |
Blake Luse (Muddyrover)
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 05:39 pm: |
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those mattracks are the bomb but 28k
thats crazy |
chu
| | Posted on Friday, December 06, 2002 - 08:28 pm: |
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FWIW, my siped ATs were falling apart in the beginning when I went offroad. Now, they seem to stay together a little better.
May sound odd, but the biggest factor in preserving the tire was minimizing the use of ETC. When I ran ETC only, you can spin 'em up pretty good and have tread blocks flying everywhere. With the dual TTs and CDL hooked up, much better...
chu |
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