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Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 07:41 pm: | 
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What would your essential mods/gear/offroading advice be to a new Disco owner?
I learned from getting stuck in Azusa (once in Aug '01 and once in Dec '01), that a strong recovery strap, a rear hitch recovery point and a couple of bow shackles are essential.
It sucks having to walk around to other guys asking if they have straps. 9 out of 10 did not have one when I went this weekend. I mention a strong one (3" or thicker) because I witnessed an Excursion trying to pull out a Toy. He took off too fast, snapped the strap, which in turn broke right through the Toy's rear window!
In lieu of having a winch, you gotta get this, fellow newbies! Even a winch can't help you if it's in the front and the only viable way to get pulled out is from the rear.
Javier |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 09:31 pm: |
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Couldn't agree more.... |
John Lee
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 09:45 pm: |
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But Javier, shouldn't I buy my lights first? Or what about some really sweet Super Swamper tires? You can't deny that there's more than one way of being "prepared". And I really do intend to get the straps and other recovery equipment sometime in the future. Right now all of my wheeling buddies have the requisite equipment and they're glad to let me use their equipment. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 09:47 pm: |
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The answer to the strap is not to get a thicker one, but to use the proper one with good sense. The benefit of a strap over a chain, is that it has some elasticity to soften the shock of a "snatch" recovery. A 30k rope is plenty strong enough and actually a bit much for a stock truck.
The thicker you go on the straps, the less elasticity you have and the more shock you transmit to the frame. By the time you get the 5" or 6" straps on your truck, you might as well use a chain.
Remember that a snatch strap is supposed to be used at slightly more than a walking pace. And yes, I know we all move faster than that on many occasions, but you really risk damaging your truck by doing this repeatedly. |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 03:15 pm: |
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I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam on multiple threads. I wanted to start a thread where a newbie such as myself could go to see everyone's opinions/advice.
Perrone, that's good advice about the speed for using the snatch strap. Question about the thickness, though. In your experience, is a 30'x4" snatch strap have as much elasticity as a short 20'x2" strap? I've only used a few and don't have too much experience with straps.
John, hehehe, can I attach my tow straps to your light rack? just kidding, John.
You are right, being prepared is relative. Relative to foreseen driving habits, terrain, budget, equipment carried by offroading buddies, etc.
Even if combined, your buddies have all the equipment to get you out of any situation, not all attend every run.
You bring up a philosophical question about self-sufficiency. Whilst one can get carried away debating this topic, surely there must a "base" set of recovery gear that most everyone should consider.
Personally, I'm trying to accumulate as much 'basic' equipment to get me out of most situations. |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 03:26 pm: |
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good front and rear recovery points
Hi-lift jack (48 but 60 is better)
a few straps
a tree strap
some D shackles
winch extension cable at least 50'
some tools
axe, saw, and a shovel
first aid kit
blanket
water
some food
that would be a good start I think.
Oh, and learning how to use them makes them useful. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 03:38 pm: |
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For starters. Just because people call it a "Snatch strap" doesnt mean you need to snatch it at all. You should start at a dead pull and work up from there..
Kyle |
John Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:31 pm: |
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Javier,
"Perrone, that's good advice about the speed for using the snatch strap. Question about the thickness, though. In your experience, is a 30'x4" snatch strap have as much elasticity as a short 20'x2" strap? I've only used a few and don't have too much experience with straps."
Neither does Perrone. He's just parroting what he heard or read somewhere. I don't think your choice of a strap that is 3" or wider is unreasonable. It's not what I would choose because I find those really wide straps to be too clumsy to use and store, but if it makes you feel better on the trail, I say go for it. And no, it's not the same thing as using a chain.
And I also agree with Kyle that there is no fixed speed for doing a kinetic/snatch recovery. Rather, it should be tried first with just pulling force and no momentum of the pulling vehicle. Oftentimes this will be enough to extricate the stuck vehicle. If that doesn't work then pull again with some momentum. Repeat with more momentum if necessary, but don't go crazy. The very reason for trying the recovery without momentum in the first place is because kinetic recoveries are by their very nature dangerous. More momentum equals more energy stored in the strap which equals more potential hazard.
"You are right, being prepared is relative. Relative to foreseen driving habits, terrain, budget, equipment carried by offroading buddies, etc. Even if combined, your buddies have all the equipment to get you out of any situation, not all attend every run."
Agreed. I was just being sarcasting and parroting some of the excuses I had read on this board before. I think everyone on the trail should be as self-sufficient as possible. That's not always possible of course, but it's a worthwhile goal. And I do notice that people who don't have recovery equipment often have other sex toys like lights or skid plates or whatever, so lack of money is certainly not the real reason for not having recovery equipment. |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:47 pm: |
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I figured you were being sarcastic. Can I still pull you out by your roof lights? 
It's interesting how my inexperience has gotten me in trouble. I'm learning, though. My perception of common sense changes a bit with every trip.
Thanks for the advice, all. Keep it flowing. My recovery gear shopping list is growing. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 06:18 pm: |
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Javier,
I tend to carry everthing on Eric's list plus some more, like too-many tools, fluids, grease, strong torch, etc. I do not have a winch, but I have my highlift. Only problem, it just takes longer to recover. If I were to wheel alone in my area, swamp lands, I would be so prepared to make it back home, I would have to use my total cargo area to carry all of the stuff. The passenger seat would hold my cooler of maybe a beer or two or three, make it four...
I like to see someone who has their gear prepared when I arrive to recover them and I am prepared with my gear when I get stuck. It is simply good wheeling edicate, what-ever that is...
One should carry suitable recovery gear before one adds gingerbread to their rig.
John Lee, are you gonna bash that statement? |
Disco_Whore
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 06:43 pm: |
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No one mentioned a CB or some other mobile communication device.
I have seen it save more than on life on a trail or campground
To me that is don't leave home without item
All the rest can fall into various groups or priorities based on budget or ego |
JMcD
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 07:45 pm: |
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But Javier, shouldn't I buy my lights first? Or what about some really sweet Super Swamper tires? You can't deny that there's more than one way of being "prepared". And I really do intend to get the straps and other recovery equipment sometime in the future. Right now all of my wheeling buddies have the requisite equipment and they're glad to let me use their equipment.
John is a funny man, no doubt....JMcD |
John Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 08:06 pm: |
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Bruce,
"One should carry suitable recovery gear before one adds gingerbread to their rig. John Lee, are you gonna bash that statement?"
Oh boo hoo, Bruce.
How can I bash that statement? It's too sensible. If you go around calling Kyle a selfish guy who doesn't help others on the trail, then that's easy to bash. But if you advise getting the solid equipment before the sex toys, how can one reasonably bash that? |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 09:26 pm: |
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unless gingerbread is a winch and ARB bar
rd |
Andy Nix (Andy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 09:49 pm: |
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sex toys. if you need them, you shouldn't be driving a rover. |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 10:52 pm: |
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What about the kinetic round rope vs flat nylon?? Any + or - ?
There was a good article about "snatching" a vehicle in 4x4now.com. Not sure if its still out there or archived, however, it was very informative.
Jaime |
Curtis
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 11:37 pm: |
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Javier,
I like Erics list. If I had to add anything it would be a Pull-Pal. I do not have one myself, but I should. If you are being totally self sufficient it could be argued that with a Hi-Lift, shackles, line (wire rope, tow strap, chain, etc..), and a Pull Pal you can get out of about any situation with enough time. This would even apply with a winch facing forward.
I should follow my own advice on this.
I do carry most of the requsite recovery gear and did so before I ever added anything else to my rig. I also have a GPS and a Mobile VHF/UHF radio that does APRS. Topo maps and the ability to read them are critical. I try to take my laptop and link it to the radio and GPS if needed.
Curtis |
Curtis
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
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Javier,
I like Erics list. If I had to add anything it would be a Pull-Pal. I do not have one myself, but I should. If you are being totally self sufficient it could be argued that with a Hi-Lift, shackles, line (wire rope, tow strap, chain, etc..), and a Pull Pal you can get out of about any situation with enough time. This would even apply with a winch facing forward.
I should follow my own advice on this.
I do carry most of the requsite recovery gear and did so before I ever added anything else to my rig. I also have a GPS and a Mobile VHF/UHF radio that does APRS. Topo maps and the ability to read them are critical. I try to take my laptop and link it to the radio and GPS if needed.
Curtis |
Curtis
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 11:58 pm: |
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Ooops - forgive my double dribble. I guess I figured what I had to say was so damn important I would say it again. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:28 am: |
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John Lee,
just jabbing at ya is all. You came to the rescue so fiercely for Kyle when I went on my rant, good to see a tight group. I don't have issues with you or others, I am just glad my last name does not end with Ford.
Gingerbread and the definition, man that would need an entirely different thread. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:39 am: |
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John,
Exactly how do you know what my experiences are with tow straps? I don't recall seeing you when I've pulled people out with various straps or with chains.
-P
========
Neither does Perrone. He's just parroting what he heard or read somewhere. I don't think your choice of a strap that is 3" or wider is unreasonable. It's not what I would choose because I find those really wide straps to be too clumsy to use and store, but if it makes you feel better on the trail, I say go for it. And no, it's not the same thing as using a chain.
======== |
Jeremy A. (Jmansphc)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:23 pm: |
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Since I'm without much extra cash...I've heard you can use a hitch pin as a rear recovery point. Is this cool? I plan on getting a receiver shackle but heard I could do this for now. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:30 pm: |
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hey perrone. i bet john read about it somewhere.. hehe
rd |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
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You can use the hitch pin, but do not use a tow ball. Trust me on this one. It was pretty dramatic looking at that huge bolt sheared through. |
Curtis
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:46 pm: |
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If you can rig it right, a hitch pin will be stronger than a reciever shackle. There are fewer points of faliure and you are relying on the hitch pin one way or another. Rigging a reciever shackle is much easier and...it just looks sooooo cool
Curtis |
Roverine
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:01 pm: |
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Javier,
Great post/thread! Sometimes we just take recovery points and gear for granted. The first items on my procurement list when we bought the Disco were recovery points and gear, then a little body armor/protection. Mucho thanks to several people on this board who helped me out with these decisions. What to get 1st,2nd,3rd, and so forth, along with what types/makes would work well for our truck (DSII).
I still have a ways to go too (!!) ... Heck, depending on how many are riding in our vehicle, I am still wrestling with the issue of the best way to transport our hi-lift jack safely with the resources and time I've got ... I do not have a roof rack and my rear door (hinges) is already getting a little creaky and hard to open with just a slightly larger spare tire. I also need to learn and practice using the hi-lift jack properly in the first place ... I have a hard enough time just carrying the thing around (upper body strength of a hamster, lol). I never used the hi-lift in the past. I like the point brought up that one should really know how to use the equipment as well. Especially in snatches/tows and winching. Lot's of things that could ruin someone's whole day/life if not done properly, and at least with a keen awareness of the inherent problems that could arise.
Yeah, I always learn something new each time I go out. I don't think anyone ever stops learning, there's always some new experience to be had. I do agree, there's nothing like genuine experience to guide your way. I hope (in the future) to help others the same way that I've been helped out.
Kim |
Jeremy A. (Jmansphc)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:08 pm: |
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Thanks guys. Is there any tricks on attaching a strap to the pin? |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:09 pm: |
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Ya, make sure that you get a pin that has a way to lock it in there.. You wouldn't want the pin falling out while you are pulling someone.. |
Dave
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:11 pm: |
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As another newbie out here, I've been slowly collecting up recovery gear. If I were to go out this afternoon to buy a recovery strap, what size should I get?
2"x20', 2"x30'
3"x20', 3"x30'
4"x?
Dave |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
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Curtis:
I agree with you whole heartedly. Regardless of what you are doing, the hitch pin is an integral component. As for how to rig to the hitch pin, there are any of a number of ways, Big chain with a grab hook on the end works well for me.
On the front, I have the CB Jate ring for a front recovery point, in spite of some here who were disdainful. I have a one foot piece of 3/8" 6600# chain bolted to the frame where the steering gear would bolt if RHD. Sounds redneck, but it looks kinda cool having that piece of chain hang down and boy did it work well last week, right Matt?
Paul |
John Lee
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 03:45 pm: |
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Perrone,
"Exactly how do you know what my experiences are with tow straps? I don't recall seeing you when I've pulled people out with various straps or with chains."
Rob is right. I did as you do and read it somewhere. |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 03:52 pm: |
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Dave, go with the 3 or 4 inchers which ever has a nice hig load level and get different lenghts. I have (2) 30's and a 20 cause you never know... |
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