Questions about Dusy Ershim

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Author Message   Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 11:17 pm:    I'm thinking of planning a winter time trip to Dusy Ershim. Could someone who's driven the trail give me a general description of it. I'm curious about any particularly difficult parts and recommended equipment for competent drivers. Is it even open in Jan. or Feb.? Would snow make it to difficult? Too slippery? Thoughts about a spring time trip? Any info would be much appreciated. I've enjoyed the pictures of John and Ho's trip and it doesn't look like anything a moderately modified disco couldn't do. Thoughts? thx.   Shane Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:08 pm:    starting elevation 8200'. hmmm maybe bring a shovel.   E Snyder Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:26 pm:    John Lee tells me there is great birdwatching along that trail. Probably not in winter, however.   Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 08:17 pm:    LOL Jack, guess that depends on the definition of a moderate modification... at least, whatever it takes to keep 235/85s spinning (in summer), plus... like Shane said, a BMF shovel. but it's all hearsay. peter   John Lee Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 09:47 pm:    Jack, The Dusy wasn't bad, but I would guess that if you go there in January or February, your biggest nemesis would be the weather. Also, the trail might not even be open at that time. I third the recommendation for a BFS.   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 10:06 pm:    Ummmm, not bad? The entire trail? It's harder than Rubicon. It's also at high elevation where the weather changes quickly, which can be deadly in the winter. It takes a minimum of 3 days to complete for an experienced driver pushing it. I doubt it is open in the winter, even if it was, you won't get through on anything but a snowmobile. I would not recomend running Dusy solo, either.   E Snyder Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:50 pm:    If you're determined to go in winter, throw in a set of chains. Although if it is mostly slick rock, the chains might not help much?   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:03 pm:    It's not slickrock, it's loose boulders. It's also at 8-10k of elevation, so I would imagine that with the amount of snow they get up there you will need more than chains to get through.   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:06 pm:    Maybe John @ RoverTym could fab up a snow plow?   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:17 pm:    possibly something like this might work:   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 01:30 pm:    I think Dusy in the winter will be worse than Hannibal's crossing of the Alps, or Napoleon's and Hitler's campaigns in Russia.   Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 02:10 pm:    That's an odd comparison. Hannibal had the equivalent of D110s with kodiak heaters and 35" snow tires. Hitler was as well equipped for the situation as a geo tracker. Yeah, Yeah, you're all a bunch of smartasses, but I've spent a lot of time in the sierras and I know exactly what different parts of it can be like. However, I don't know where this trail is and where it goes. That's why I asked. I've backpacked the whole Dusy Basin and I knew the trail doesn't go up there. The difference between 8k and 10k ft. can be all the difference. I asked for some general trail description and no one has provided that. Just pictures of snow plows. Where does the trail start? where does it end? how long is it? etc. Like my orig. post stated, I'm not even sure if the area is open. I'd like to check out the trail and I'd like to go soon. Hence my questions. Sheesh.   thom mathie (Muskyman) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 02:13 pm:    you guys are so full of it everyone knows ho has been hard at work setting his truck up for a winter run on Dusy the snowhomobile   Alan Bates (Alanb) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 02:17 pm:    Here you go: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/travels/dusy.html   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 03:08 pm:    Relax, Jack. I have run the entire trail, and I was trying to answer your questions. Part of the trail is at 10k elevation, part of it is lower. It is 30 miles long, full of boulders, harder than Rubicon, it's near Fresno and I still think it's suicide to try and drive it in the winter. Ok?   Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 03:50 pm:    thank you axel. that's the sort of info I wanted. It's fine to tell me that it's not a winter trail. In my orig. post I also asked about the possiblity of a spring trip. Do you think mud would be a problem in april? Well, if it's harder than Rubicon , it might be out, there are some scary sections on that one for sure.   Shane Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 04:47 pm:    I've *heard* that the dusy is only passable mid to late summer as there is too much snow. I interpret moderately modified disco to mean lockers and 235/85/r16's. I think you won't make it. but I have no idea what the snow level is right now(probably not much) and wouldn't say it is impossible. I would say that the time between dec. and may are the times most likely to be impassable. If you want a challenge in the next few months you should go to Johnson Valley. I think Ho would want to go with you.   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 04:50 pm:    Shane, You doing the Hammers in the near future?   Shane Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 05:23 pm:    what John, you think'n your "rig" is hillbilly enough for the hammers?   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 05:58 pm:    Well, my inbred half-brother Cletus has been telling me the Hammers are pretty fun, so long as I don't try to do the harder trails there like Wrecking Ball. I must admit I'm intimidated but I might be willing to give Sledge a try.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:07 pm:    Depending on your experiance level and your Patience level you can complete the dusy any ole time you like I would imagine.However , as Ax said , its boulder strewn 30 miles and makes the Rubicon look like a kiddie trail. You would be stopped right at Chicken rock if it was snow or ice covered. If you made that you would have "Fairly" smooth sailing (I am using that term in relation to what its gonna take to complete the trail) until you get to "Thompsons Hill" , or actually about a mile before the hill itself where the grade starts to rise. There are a few tight tricky spots before you get to the hill that would give you a fit in the snow , more then likely you would end up with mucho carefull winching till you reached the top. (Now you have really fucked yourself!!) From there you have steep down grades and off camber spots here and there. Some off camber with trees in close proximity that we had a hard enough time keeping off of when it was dry as a bone. A couple of spots could be pretty hairy but doable with a couple of trucks driven by determined individuals that have some experience in the snow and with winches and rigging. I would estimate that by day 5 you should be near Divorce rock. You are pretty much fucked from there and would have to winch frequently in many spots to avoid the very real dangers of slipping off the edge of the earth in some spots. (Ax , can you imagine that narrow ass rock if it was ice covered???: I would estimate that from Divorce rock to the end of the trail would take you atleast another 3 days and thats only if you were constantly hard at it even into the night every night. As far as the mods go. Well , if its snow covered a big winch would be paramount. I am kinda thinking you are pretty screwed as far as any traction is concerned so the rest of the mods other then some clearance is fairly moot. It would be too damn slick to break axles and probably wouldnt be much for lockers to grab on so having them cant hurt but I aint sure they would help much. We got a truck through wearing 245s with a little work but taller would certainly make it better. Especially since you wouldnt be able to see half of the land mines that were going to get hung under the truck as you rolled over them. All in all I dig the idea but I highly doubt the trail is open or that anyone would set the time aside to take it on in the snow. Given the Weathers temperment up there its quite possible that it would be the last trail you ever attempted in the snow..... They would cetainly be talking about you here on Dweb for years to come though... Kyle   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:23 pm:    kyle, i'll do it with ya kyle ...next dec...you just made the hair on the back of my neck stand up!...it sounds like a awsome adventure but not one to jumped into. thom   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:30 pm:    Hmmm , running that trail in the snow 3K miles from home ? Given the time that would be the ultimate blast. I am thinking back to how remote it felt on parts of the trail and trying to imagine it with a thick blanket of snow covering it. I think that takes it from feeling "Remote" to feeling "desolate". I was just talking to John Lee about it and mentioning that atleast the rescue party would only need follow the trail of gear oil to locate you and bring back your frozen corpse.. Kyle   Jack Quinlan (Jsq) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:37 pm:    so it sounds like the verdict is definitely NO for any kind of winter scenario and probably any moisture of any kind. Is 235/85s and lockers the minimum for the dry attempt?   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:40 pm:    Minimum comfortable trip I would say atleast a rear locker , 32" tires and heavy everything...Oh , and a very large dose of patience. Getting in a hurry is only speeding up some breakage... Kyle   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:41 pm:    kyle, the corpse part is a little pesamistick, some of the places i have been ice fishing are about as desolate as they come and sometimes your on the ice 4 or 5 days in -20 to -30 and I have yet to lose a finger or toe as people always warn me. plan it for a year I'll bet we'd be fine. make all the equipment choices based on worst case senario. pick a date...give me something to look forward to...I am in!   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:46 pm:    Well the real issue up there is the unpredictability of the weather. I cant even imagine how much snow could get dropped on you in one night. That kinda leaves you to the "Point and pray" method of driving the whole way through... I dig it , no doubt , but dying up there would be a real factor. Look through the pics of the trip and then try to imagine that shit. Get Rob to help , he likes to "Imagine"... Kyle   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:51 pm:    kyle, if it was really gonna be done in winter it might be easier after you got bunches of snow, it would take the boulder factor out of it. then a rig on 44" such as they use in iceland and some huge capacity winches and your bomber. would a wide rig fit on the tight sections? thom   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:53 pm:    yes i image all kinds of shit kyle did you read my latest prose? here i'll link you garlic bread imagine that rd   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:56 pm:    Musky , I rarely play anything up , atleast as far as trails are concerned. But that god damned thing has got it all. 90% of the trail is an obstacle of some sort and when I say tight I mean tight. And to top it off , it seems like every single tight section was off camber. Not really off camber but enough that it would bend some shit up real nice in the snow...I would love to have the bragging rights of completing it in the snow but you are talking about some really slow going and the weight of the gear and supplies you would have to take would only make matters worse... Kyle   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:05 pm:    Kyle, I think it needs to be done....think of the video youd be saying back east is fun,moab is technical,and dusy will be out when national geographical finishes it! I really would do it, you only get so many grand adventures in life. and everytime you do one it gets tougher and tougher to find the next one becuase you keep pushing your own bar higher. I'll never do mt Everest, maybe dusy is my Everest thom   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:10 pm:    I agree , we are running out of shit after that last grand tour. I wont be returning to the West. My next adventures are North..... Although , that thing in the snow would be the ultimate adventure... I would have to warn you prior to the trip that I aint a fag or anything but if we ran outta shit I would certainly eat you , might encourage you to bring a friend for reserves as well... kyle   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:11 pm:    You guys are actually going to try it? Oh man. I can see the headlines now: http://dingo.care-mail.com/pictures/33/339/958/339581657.gif "USA Today - February 15, 2003 - CALIFORNIA MOUNTAINS - Hikers in the California mountains recently discovered a frozen corpse. Scientists believe that they have found an American Iceman Mummy similar to Ötzi the Iceman. This discovery is significant because the mummy's cranial structure appears very Neanderthal in shape and scientists believe the mummy is extremely old, old enough to predate Cro-Magnon Man and also the flooding of the Bering Strait thousands of years ago. If the scientists' age estimate of the mummy is correct, the discovery of this Neanderthal mummy would indicate indigenous humanoid life on North America and would negate the theory that Mongoloids crossed the Bering Strait to populate North America. More details to follow as the forensic experts conduct their postmortem examinations."   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:17 pm:    Man , you saying I got a Chrome agnon head ? That aint right... Not right at all..... Kyle   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:18 pm:    No, Kyle. John was talking about the mummy, not the big daddy. You'll get your turn.   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:20 pm:    postmortem examinations have now shown that a chicago native was struck in the head with a jacking devise made by bloomfield co in indiana then partially eaten. more at 10 oclock   Ron A Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:29 pm:    Jack, Dusy (south part of the trail) and Ershim (north) close about October each year. It usually opens late June but the Fresno 4WD club has to go in for a couple long weekends and clear the trail. http://www.4wdcfresno.com/ Ron A   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:33 pm:    Ron , you just linked me to pop up HELL!!!! I thought I was on the pirates board for a second there,,,,,damn.... Kyle   Ron A Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:36 pm:    oh and they get about 12' (yes feet) of snow on sections of the trail. Ron A   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:37 pm:    MY i spy says they just tried to place 9 cookies?   Ron A Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:39 pm:    damn Kyle you're right... I that was from the d-web for a minute and that you guys were trying to save a buck (LOL) they even got a pop up the rings like a phone... jeeze (sorry about that) ron A   kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:40 pm:    12',,,Hmmm , that means your rangie would still clear the drifts.... Kyle   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:42 pm:    i'm such a internet slut...touch this click this....nowonder i get pages od spam crap!   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:43 pm:    Ron's hood is about level with the top of my shoulders. No exaggeration. So if you're spotting Ron and your head is above the snow, that means that Ron can still roll down his windows without a care in the world.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:45 pm:    Is that on the trailer or off the trailer John ?? Kyle   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:47 pm:    the cool thing about places that get huge amounts of snow is they are also the kinds of places that can freeze it into crossable ice. I have always wanted to go on a trip to iceland and go wheeling with those guys out doing the glacial crossing stuff. it looks like ultimate $ wheel drive. winching for miles. tapping trucks shut and winching them thru icy rivers. really tickles the fun corner of my brain   Ron A Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 07:57 pm:    "12',,,Hmmm , that means your rangie would still clear the drifts...." (HHHAAA) naw I don't have one of those cool roof tents like peters so that I can camp above the snow line. We're actually planning a Dusy run in early July with two separate groups. While this isn't an open invitation, if someone with a well built/maintained rover (and as Kyle said lots of patience and a good sense of humor cause you�ll need it) was interested we would certainly entertain them joining us. Check the SCLR board around Feb. http://www.sclr.org (no pop ups I promise) Ron A   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 08:12 pm:    I think you guys should just cut the bull shit and drive up Mt. Everest like in the 4runner commercials.   thom mathie (Muskyman) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 08:19 pm:    drive up mt Everest? that brings us back to the snow-ho-mobile   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 08:26 pm:    Ohhh come on, the 4runner did it with nothing but some fancy active-hill-descent-controll or what ever the hell they call it, you guys shouldn't need much more. BTW that is one of the worst photoshop jobs ever, but at the same time one of the funniest I have seen in a while. The snow-ho-mobile..... good god.....   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 08:49 pm:    thanks carter its my first   Rich Lee Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 01:27 am:    Hi guys, To paraphrase Woody in �Toy Story�, �I would LOVE to see you try� . Unless it�s a severe drought year, I think John Lee�s and Musky�s �Donner Party� scenario is about right. They will be digging you out in the summer and wondering how mankind could have �de-evolved� to such a low level of common sense. Even south of Yosemite, there is some serious snow in the Sierras from December through May (or even August). This was a drought year, and most years you would have come across some nice snow patches along (or on) the Dusy in the north facing trees up until mid July. We were driving on snow (and by snowboarders) near the end of the NCRC Blue Lakes trip in mid July this year (near 9000�). You will find a hell of a lot more snow on the Dusy in winter, even if the gates weren�t locked. Driving on cold, gradually-accumulated snow in Iceland, or even Upper Michigan is doable. Driving in �Sierra Cement� over 24� is not. The stuff almost never consolidates to the point that you can drive over it, and then only in very short patches (like at the terminus of an avalanche, where it is very dense). You can actually check the snow conditions in the Dusy area, by going to the site for the DWR weather stations at Kaiser Pass, which is near the end of the Dusy trail. For monthly data in inches of snow AND inches of water in the current snow pack, check out this link. http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryMonthly?KSR For hourly data on snow water content, check out this link. http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/staMeta?station_id=KSP In the Sierras, snow water content usually varies between 25% in early winter, to 50% in the spring. Hence, to calculate the snow depth, multiple the inches of water by about 4 up to mid February, by about 3 from then until mid April, and then by 2 thereafter. According to today�s water content, the snow depth near the end of the Dusy is 30� to 36�. NOW, with a set of Mattracks, you might be able to pull it off. www.mattracks.com As to this 4 Runner conquering Everest BS, I don�t think so. Actually they are using Everest as a backdrop for Toyota�s version of the Land Rover G4 challenge. http://www.autointell.com/News-2002/October-2002/October-2002-3/October-16-02-p2.htm The �Everest base camp� they are referring to is near 18,000� on the Tibet side, where teams are usually driven in everything from vintage Land Cruisers to beat up Tata trucks, all of them turbodiesels. I spent some time in Everest base camp on the Nepal side and I can assure you that no 4x4 can get anywhere near there. I saw 2 idiots carry their full suspension mountainbikes at least 70% of the way into base camp (because it�s there, I guess). If you want to do the Dusy in winter, bring a pair of Fischer E-99 Cap Crown skis and have a nice 2 day ski. I think Kyle and Musky would have more fun Snow Wheeling up in Canada, or in "Da U.P. eh?". Stay warm, Rich   Pete Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 07:19 am:    Since we are talking about snow here, do you guys think our rovers can handle snow plowing? i was thinkiing about a Fisher minute mount!! hahaha But really though, i have seen s-10 blazers snow plowing so i think the rover can handle it!   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 07:55 am:    I hope you don't honestly think I believe they drove 4runners all the way up Mt. Everest.......   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 12:43 pm:    all i can say is... it's too damn cold out there!! hammers? i'll pass.   James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy) Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 01:20 pm:    Pete, don't know what LR you own but here is one with a plow: Jaime   Rich Lee Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 02:14 pm:    Carter said: "I hope you don't honestly think I believe they drove 4runners all the way up Mt. Everest......." No, I know you are smarter than that (which is why you own a Rover, right?). I have this thing about any company using Everest (a.k.a Sagamartha or Chomolungma) for some absurd ad about how their vehicle, snowmobile, stove, tent, ski, etc "conquered" Everest. NOBODY "conqueres" Everest. The mountain (and the weather)simply let you live to make it to the top, and more importantly, back down (the majority of deaths occur while descending from the summit). It is a very beautiful and sacred place. (Shameless self-promotion) Here is a brief article on my trip there. http://www-med.stanford.edu/shs/update/archives/july99/ (Rover Content)I'm wearing a Camel Trophy T-shirt in the com tent photo on the second page. The Brits thought it was very cool. The other link shows me trying to get better output from our wheezing generator by tweaking the air-fuel mixture. http://classic.mountainzone.com/everest/99/south/disp5-13rich.html   Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 02:53 pm:    that's the full story there very cool, Rich, very cool. I have many physician friends who are climbers and have been to Himalayas, and was always jealous of them going up there. peter   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 03:54 pm:    Damn Rich, that's bad ass.   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 04:04 pm:    Rich, I too am very jealous!...and in awe   Carter Simcoe (Carter) Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 07:08 pm:    very cool   Rich Lee Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 09:05 pm:    Thanks guys, Really my life has been more exiting and more busy than I could have ever imagined. I have also seen more tragedy than I could have ever anticipated. "Projects" like Everest are something I have to do every couple of years to keep me from burning out at work. So far, I haven't been able to incorporate Land Rovers into them, but I'm still working on that. However, I really envy the time you all have for wheeling and the trips you get to go on. I am pretty good at wrenching, but I really envy the welding skill of so many on the list, especially Greg Davis & Kyle. I have a lot of respect for craftsmen (& women) who do good hard work with their hands. Although I work my ass off and make decent money (for anywhere but the SF bay area), we spend the majority of our "disposible" income on our boys education (they have my dyslexia, and it costs a lot) and that leaves little left to satisfy my envy for all the nice trucks you guys are building and driving. Our kids are worth it, something that's hard to understand until you actually become a parent. Everest was relly amazing and I was lucky to be asked to join the expedition. Sometimes you do have to get out of the Land Rover to have a good time, but I would like to spend more time in mine. You all are a good group of people, even when I don't agree with you. Don't change (I'll try not to as well).