| Author |
Message |
    
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 09:54 am: | 
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Sorry for the cross post, but I'm pissed!
One head bolt is refusing to come out! In trying to tear down my 3.9, I have been able to remove all but one head bolt and I've now broken five sockets trying to get it loose and I even bought a new impact wrench and it can't get the bolt loose.
Any and all suggestions cheerfully accepted! Preference given to those that are realistic!
Paul |
Al Cruz (Alc)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 10:39 am: |
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Paul,
Are the bolts rounded? If they are Sears has a tool that removes them quite easily. Actually had the same problem trying to remove a stuck and rounded bolt off of a brake caliper. This nut remover has teeth on them that grabs the flats of the nut. Man I tell ya it was god send! Hope this helps!
Al |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 10:52 am: |
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Thanx Al, but I was somehow sufficiently aware of my surroundings to stop before the bolt head is completely rounded.
It is just too damned tight. Normally, I would apply liberal amounts of heat, but the last time I did this, I caught my blazer on fire! Then again, it is currently garaged at my rental house and we did just get insurance on the rental...
Too bad the wife works for an insurance company...
I'll go back to beating on it some more this evening. One way or another, this darkness got to go!
Peace,
Paul |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 10:58 am: |
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Paul , get a good thick walled 6 point socket and put it on there. Then give it a few whacks with a dead blow hammer before trying to remove it. Dont go nuts with the hammer , just a few good whacks. Have you been using the cheesy chrome sockets to try and get it out ?
Kyle |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:06 am: |
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Kyle:
I was thinking about something along the same lines, using a punch to concentrate the blow to the center of the head bolt, although, with the rim around the head bolts, the socket might be as good a way to go. Maybe an air hammer with a blunt chisel.
I broke five Craftsman six-point chromed sockets before going out and buying a good six-point impact socket. Having learned more than I ever want to know about sockets, I try to match the tool to the job and this was another example of using such logic. If I'm not using an impact driver, I try to not use an impact socket.
Before the comment is made, I'm using a Snap-On breaker bar with a tight-fitting piece of iron pipe for my cheater bar.
Paul |
Pugsly (Pugsly)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:28 am: |
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Wow, sorry to hear about that. I just rebuilt the top end of my V8, fortunately the bolts all came out beautifully.
How were the other bolts coming out? And which bolt number is this? If it is one of the third row which won't get re-installed then maybe just grind it down? (Sorry, don't know what year Rover you have).
Guess the last person working on the engine didn't use anti-seize! |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:55 am: |
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paul,
here is the perfect tool for the job
go get a 3/4" diameter by 12" long piece of brass rod.
then reduce the diameter to 1/2" on one end as in this photo
then place the 1/2" end on the head of the bolt on about a 10 to 15 degree angle(about the same as the slope on the threads.
then pound away. you are trying to shatter the disimaler metal corosian that is in the threads. the percussion is most effective when the shock wave travels at 90* to the pitch of the thread not straight down the bolt.angle the rod all the way around as to break as much of this binding coresion on all sides of the head bolt. with long head bolts you cant really achieve 90* but the angle makes a big difference compared to straight down the shaft. then hit it with the impact and 6 sided socket.
I also have had good luck drilling a very thin diameter hole through the bolt on a slight angle to create a channel to get some wonder juice down the bore.because there really is no clearence under the head, its the only way you can get fluid to the threads. a very small titanium or sic drill bit will be needed to make this hole
good luck
thom |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:56 am: |
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i dont own this tool but i think i saw it at sears a few times. it looks like a giant chisel with a socket tip on it. you bead on it like a chisel but it transfers the tork internally from linear to rotational. the beaty of the devise it is allso puts pressure down so it wont slip off. |
thom mathie (Muskyman)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 11:56 am: |
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here's the tool |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:03 pm: |
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also anyone else reading this...this brass rod has a gazillion uses around the well equiped shop and it only costs about $5 to make one...well worth it, I'd be lost without mine |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
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Musky:
Once again, you come up with another idea for me to try! I have some big pieces of brass stock in the shop and I can turn the end down as suggested. I agree that there has to be a non-destructive means to bust the corrosion from the threads.
I'm really surprised that banging away at it with the impact and then trying the cheater bar didn't get me anywhere.
The last time I had this problem (1981), I ended up pulling the engine and grinding the bolt head off and using a pipe wrench to get it out of the block-but this was after the crankshaft had already broken on a SBC and I had far less to lose.
Paul |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
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click here to see what the heck i was talking about
that was what i was thinking but it looks like it is maybe only for screews
rd |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
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Paul, Craftsman makes a hand held impact driver for $24. I bought one this weekend. You attach an impact socket, put the socket on the bolt, hit the back end of the impact driver with a hammer and it will turn 20 degrees per impact generating up to 200 lbft of torque. It worked for me on a stubborn bolt and it's small enough to carry with you on the trail for those unexpected repairs. My co-worker is an ex-mechanic and told me about it, up till now I didn't know they existed.
Rick |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:22 pm: |
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Rob:
Those drivers will work for just about anything you can get a driver for, however, the air driven impact wrench I'm using generates more torque and is easier to use in the cramped quarters near the firewall.
I've used that style of driver to pull screws from crankcases of motorcycles-it's the only way!
thanx anyway! |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:23 pm: |
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Damn, Rob beat me to it. That's what I'm talking about and it will use all 1/2 impact sockets. Sold seperately. 
Rick |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:25 pm: |
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paul,
back in high school I was rebuilding a 389 out of a pontiac ambulance for a friends GTO.
we had one damn head bolt that was messing with us. and fate be murphys best friend it was one inside the rocker valley so we could not knock the head off with a cut-off saw because of the little space.
I had every engine guru I know looking and sugesting what to do. we ended up drilling the little hole,syringing liquid wrench down the hole and using three guys turning a cross shaped tire iron while a 4th guy banged on the top of it with a sledge hammer. that one bolt took more time then the rest of the rebuild!
but we got it out...as you will
thom |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:39 pm: |
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i got medevil on a stubourn shock this weekend, i'll post the picture when i get home
rd |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 12:43 pm: |
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You know, there was this big Pontiac engine I was working one day. Took all of the head bolts out, but couldn't budge it. Being the genius I was and still am (LOL), I decided to shove a screwdriver under the head and pulled up. Just as I realized I'd missed one of the head bolts, the tip of the screwdriver broke! And hit me square in the forehead!I had a big red bruise on my forehead for much of my senior year!
If it wasn't for this damned day job, I could be home wrenching-and wouldn't you know, the weather is getting better for a few days!
Thanx for thehelp and support fellas! I might not be able to do it all, but we sure can!
Paul |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 03:36 pm: |
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Snap-on Impact driver
http://buy.snapon.com/catalog/search.asp?partno=pit120&search_type=Part&store=snapon-store
Sweet. only you should use impact sockets... Trust me
Ross Thoma |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:06 pm: |
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Musky , you could have just drilled the head off. You center punch it then use a drill bit that is bigger then the shaft of the bolt.. Drill a little and the head falls right off...
Kyle |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 05:32 pm: |
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Kyle,
drilling the little hole is tough enough ,them head bolts are some hard shit.
but i have used a cut off and angle grinders to knock them off. then used my handy dandy stud extractor to grab the shank of the bolt and twist it out.
the little hole method really works well I once had to do 6 or 7 on a bone yard block that had been sitting outside in the rain for decades and they all came out like butter after the wonder juice got to the threads.
funny thing is that was a pontiac motor as well...those 092 80cc heads where like gold back in the day.
another way that works is set a bigger/deeper nut on top of the head bolt's head then plunge weld with a ton of juice that bigger nut onto the now mashed head of the head bolt. now you have heat and a better grip on the bolt. because head bolts often have a short head on them they dont get very deep into a socket and can be a real bitch. the bigger deeper welded on nut gives you something to put some force on.
I'm sure youv messed with a million of these I gotta get this one thing out senerios. I used to hate that part of it. in hind site I think I am as proud of some extraction chores as the vehicles that they where on.
i once extracted 4 broken lug bolts out of a mercedees hub, i was in canada and getting the hub would have taken a week but by putting the hub in a oven and drilling and easy outing it I was back on the road in a day using stuff from the local small hardware store
thom |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:39 pm: |
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here is my pesky shock, yes i drilled thru it and jammed a screew driver in there to keep it from spinning.
it didn't work and i had to drill the bolts off, man was that fun.
 |
muskyman
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 06:46 pm: |
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rob,
24" pipewrench
if you dont own one, get an aluminum one instead of cast iron one
I like the screw driver thing, has worked on oil filters for me
thom |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 07:07 pm: |
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i saw those aluminum pipe wrenches at the home depot a few weks ago , pretty damn nice. great wepon if ou get into a fight.
anyway i had the old fashioned kind and it didn't work.
the oil in the stock was like break fluid, slick as fucking hell and ate my hands up sumthin' fearce.
rd |
Ron
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 08:11 pm: |
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All you have to do is get a 3ft pipe (or a dan bar sleeve for the track rod ) and stick it on the end of the breaker bar. Something will give (unless you weigh like 120lbs).
Ron
PS I have a 3ft magnesium pipe wrench, works wonders for tie rod ends too |
Prestone
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 09:20 pm: |
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Paul,
Don�t forget to add the correct mixture of anti freeze when you reinstall it |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 08:36 am: |
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Gee, that last message seems to have been posted suspiciously close to a telephone call I made last night...
Your secret is safe with me, I don't want to see you banned again!
Anyway, that damned truck is mocking me, I know it! The stubborn head bolt came out last night like it was supposed to! I calmly put the socket in place, tapped it lightly three times and it spun out so easily, I was certain I'd twisted the head out.
The wife is convinced I was tired day before yesterday. Personally, I think banging on it with the impact had to have busted some of the crud loose on those threads.
If the machine shop can meet my schedule, I'll have it back together by Sunday.
Peace,
Paul |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:03 am: |
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admit it , you were tightening it the day before, it's okay, we've all done it
rd |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:37 am: |
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"admit it , you were tightening it the day before, it's okay, we've all done it
rd"
my little brother once called me over saying somethings wrong I have the compressor at 200lb the impact set on 5 and this damn pinion nut wont even budge.
yes he was tightening it!
great paul! glad to here you won! |
Smart Ass
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:07 pm: |
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Righty tighty Lefty looseey |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:58 pm: |
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Years ago, I got this call from my sister asking me which way to turn the oil drain plug on her Pinto, and if it was wrong that it just kept turning and oil was pouring out from around the nut... Yep, she had torn the drain plug right out!
NO! I was not turning it the wrong way.
Now, go out and find me some sources for non-Rover head parts to fit my truck!
Man, am I getting mocked by more than just the truck or what?
Peace,
Paul |
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