| Author |
Message |
    
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 08:33 pm: | 
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First off, I am looking to add a locker to the rear of the rover. I am kinda split between the ARB and a Detriot. Now, I know all about how each one works, blah blah blah. But this is a new question: How hard is to operate an ARB?
First off, I'm an idiot  . I am attracted to the Detriot because, well, it operates itself. Making it idiot proof in operation (except installation, trail repair, etc). It just works and does everything for you so you don't have to think about it.
But, the ARB can be turned off, which I like. Unfortunately, it does seem like the truck does stay a lot on the road. This is why the ARB is nice b/c when on the road, they don't do anything. On the downside is remembering when to use it on the trail. Do most of the ARB equiped rig drivers here just lock up at the beginning of the trail or do y'all toggle the thing while your going? Whats the rap on use?
I know this sounds like a stupid question, but, when you start thinking about lockers and such, you start asking yourself these questions. Since I seem to forget things real easily, I need to take that into consideration when I upgrade the truck.
As said before, this is really not too technical of a question, so don't y'all go and turn it into one .
So, what do y'all think?
Max T. |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 08:44 pm: |
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Max, are you saying you never use your turn signals because you forget? you shouldn't be operating any machinery.
peter |
Will Roeder (Will_Roeder)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 08:59 pm: |
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To operate the ARB, just flip the compressor on first, then flip the locker switch..... |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 09:49 pm: |
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Well, I have believe I have not properly projected my concern about the ARB style locker. Yes, you flip the switch, but when you do you engage the sucker. See, I don't like to put a lot of wear and tear on my drivetrain. I know there is sometimes you need momentum or you put all of the weight of the truck on two wheels, etc. But I figure the less stress I put on all of my components, the less likely I am to break something and to prolong to life of my equipment.
Now, since I don't like to put a lot of extra stress on the drivetrain, does it hurt to lock up the rear the whole time? Do many people on this board lock up the ARB all of the time when off road? |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 09:57 pm: |
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If you don't like a lot of wear and tear on the drive train then why are you even considering a detroit? |
James Gall (Jimmyg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:41 pm: |
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Max,
Give me a call at 540-456-7146 and I can talk to you about the ARB. Or e-mail me your number. I have used the air locker from Moab to CO to the sad mountains of Va. |
Ron
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:44 pm: |
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Max,
Are you the same Max with a 109? Is this for the 109? If it is for the 109 and the 109 is a SIII (I think it is) I would recommend the detroit.
Here is why:
1. It is far less expensive (they can be had for 325 or so)
2. It is way easier to install in a salisbury than an ARB because the salsibury (like a corp 14 bolt) is a stock 4pin so only the center section is replace, ergo no resetting the pattern or shims or anything. DIY able even.
Ron |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:45 pm: |
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Jeez Carter, look at my previous post. A Detriot requires no thinking. It will always provide traction, but you always don't need traction........and that would be why I am looking at an ARB!! The subject of this tread!
So, what is YOUR experience with an ARB locker Carter?
Please, enlighten me.
Max T.
Would another Rover owner with experience with the ARB Locker please help? Thanks |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:54 pm: |
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I never claimed to have any experience with an ARB locker or even mentioned anything about the ARB locker for that matter. All I said was "If you don't like a lot of wear and tear on the drive train then why are you even considering a DETROIT?"
I said this because in your first post you said: "I am kinda split between the ARB and a Detroit" and then later you said "I don't like to put a lot of wear and tear on my drivetrain".
I have owned a detroit in the past and it put a lot of wear and tear on EVERYTHING.
Now next time you decide to get pissy with me go back and learn to read first.
-Carter |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 11:34 pm: |
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Quote:Would another Rover owner with experience with the ARB Locker please help? Thanks
well I own a rover and ARB's...just not in my rover
hope you dont mind?
that said Max
ARB's are really very simple to operate once you turn on the compressor and the system comes up to pressure(30 sec) its ready to go push the button it locks push it again it unlocks.
the locker itself is plenty strong to lock once and leave it for your whole trip off road, but because its so simple to lock and unlock there really is no reason to. also you are right having it locked all the time will stress other things such as axles, tires,... ect ect.
after a little use you will have no problems knowing when and where, and its even a fun toy because you can see what it really takes to do a certain obstacle. some times its more fun doing something in 2wd with it unlocked when your buddies just had to go through all locked up.
one more thing 99% of the failures I'v seen with ARB's has been related to a less then perfect installation. it is true that they are the hardest locker out there to install into a truck but IMHO once they are in correctly they are one of the best most fun bang for your buck upgrades you can do. |
James Gall (Jimmyg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 11:38 pm: |
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"one more thing 99% of the failures I'v seen with ARB's has been related to a less then perfect installation. it is true that they are the hardest locker out there to install into a truck but IMHO once they are in correctly they are one of the best most fun bang for your buck upgrades you can do. "
This statement is a 125% true. You won't be sorry. |
L_Tilly
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 09:48 am: |
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Musky,
If you're going to be locking and unlocking at various times on the trail, do you just leave your compressor on so it remains charged?
Lawrence [email protected]
96 Disco - Beowulf - NH, USA |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 10:30 am: |
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l tilly,
yep...If i'm off road the pump is always on. if i dont use my lockers my pump will cycle once about every hour for about 10 sec. my pump has been doing service since 1993(about 2x as long as most i'v seen)I use it to air all the way up to road pressure after wheeling as well. I think my pump has lasted longer because I bolted it in with the selonoids up and a short hose (about a foot long) with a quick disconnect right off the tank going down. all the moisture generated by the pump runs down into the hose so it dosent sit in the tank or selonoids.
one other thing is I have a high output alternator that provides good power at idle so its always got a good power supply. i have had a number of friends that have had the pumps go bad. and we have sorta come to the conclusion that if you run the pump with say 11volts(truck shut down battery low after a day of crawling around) instead of 13 to 15volts that they burn up pretty fast, we came to this conclusion based on the fact that the pump itself gets way hotter with less then ideal power.
once again it all goes back to install, if you dont use teflon tape and your pump dumps the moisture back into the selonoids. the system will leak air run all the time and it will be a toss up if the selonoids go first or the pump wears out?
thom |
L_Tilly
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 10:45 am: |
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Great tips, Thom. Where did you mount your pump unit (uh, for the ARB)? Any pics of the mounting setup?
-L |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 10:55 am: |
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L tilly,
they would be worthless as my ARB's are in my scout.
yea I know I'm sharing unrelated info and I will promply be getting my ass bact to SCOUTWEB.org
but a couple things I'd think about . keep it dry ,get it air and set it up so changing a selonoid dosent necesatate removal of the pump to service the selonoids.
if you really want to see my install I can snap some picks of it this weekend.
thom |
L_Tilly
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 12:32 pm: |
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I would appreciate it if you would. I'm mostly interrested in your mounting bracket setup and how you secured it on your rig, plus your control switches if you don't mind. Of course, if any of it's a really messy install you can just email them to me off-list and we'll keep it between the two of us. If you're worried about being on-topic you can always slap a Discoweb sticker in the picture somewhere. :-)
Lawrence [email protected] |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 12:44 pm: |
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97 d1 arb ft and rear. I charge my pump in the beginning of the trail and leave it on. I also use it to air up my tires. As for when to use the locker.....I use it when i can't get through an obstical without them or if I am feeling lazy about retrying lines. You will not have any problem figuring out when to use them. Being able to turn them off is a huge advantage, especially on off camber soft dirt or snow. Rest assured, arb is good way to go. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 01:25 pm: |
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96 D1 with ARB rear locker.
It's a judgement call on when to use it. If the line looks tough, with lots of cross-axle spots, then on goes the pump & on goes the locker switch. As soon as I pass whatever obstacle, I release the locker switch, but usually leave the pump switch engaged. If you're offroad (i.e. loose ground surface), it's really not a big deal to leave it engaged because the tires won't bind on loose surface (same concept as locking center diff). Still, I like to disengage it after I run a line (you can really feel the effects of fully locked axle).
Lately I've been doing what Brian does, I like to try a line open diff'd to see if I can finesse it, but many times it's "spin the tires, back down, lock it up, and up you go." I also air up my tires with the little baby tank...at least put a few more pounds in the tires to get me to the gas station's compressor.
My ARB has been in use since about 1997. Previous owner had it installed. I've had the truck since Dec 99. I had a shop go over the ARB and they couldn't think of anything to do to it because it was functioning perfectly. I did have a...uh...switch operation issue when I first picked up the truck. I had no idea what an air locker was and the LR dealer insisted that you pushed the right button to engage pump & locker while the left button was for a front locker if I ever installed one. Obviously this is wrong, and that is why my locker wasn't working - I was just turning on the compressor! Once I figured it out, all was well. I also had a problem when one of the switch wires came loose. Refit the wire and all was well.
I usually purge the air pressure from the tank after a trip, but I've forgotten to and it's held full pressure in the tank for over a month. I'll snap a pic of my mount, which is in the rear passenger side cargo cubby. I think that has helped system longevity (as opposed to mounting under the hood). I'll post a pic later. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 01:46 pm: |
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blue,
I think your right about not under the hood,cooler is better.
L tilly,
I'll pop some Pics this weekend and post them, I have no messy problems to hide, as wee say around our little group its gotta be "clean jeanie"
or
"shity shit shits up everybodys trip!" |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 03:47 pm: |
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Thanks for all of the feedback on the subject. Thanks for the tip about not mounting the pump under the hood. That sounds like a really good idea to help keep the pump going.
Musky, keep that scout going man .
One more question: I've heard that when you break an axle w/a detriot, the detriot a lot of the time gets detroyed. Is the ARB also prone to this? I hope I never break an axle, but if it does happen, I would wonder if anything else would be affected (other than my ego ).
Max T. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 04:12 pm: |
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Max,
I have broken 2 rear axes on the arb and 1 front axle on arb and I am still goig strong. But the question is how much life have I taken out of the lockers by breaking the axles? Guess I will never know. I upgraded my rear axles to Great Basin hd. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 08:08 pm: |
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Brian, thanks for the info on the unfortunate  . I've talked to a few people about how their Detriot Nuked itself when an axle broke. The fact that you have broken two axles on the same ARB and not had any problems, well, thats just good (pretty good considering a negitive thing like breaking an axle).
I do plan to upgrade to HD axles, so that shouldn't be an issue. I hope you don't have anymore trouble like that for a long time.
Max T. |
Brian (Rover_Wannabe)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 10:23 am: |
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Would you mind sending me pics of your set-up as well Blue? I am not interested in putting in an ARB yet, as I just got the stock truck last week and have other mods I would like to do first, as well as learn the truck stock, then slowly upgrade (bullbar, then 2 inch lift, then bigger tires, etc.) to get a feel of each change in the vehicle. But I would like to hold on to the pics for when I put my lockers in.
Thanx
Brian Rohan |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 11:48 am: |
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Can you run tools off the ARB compressor? |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:14 pm: |
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nope...not even close...even with a auxilary tank its worthless and would do it in |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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Hmm, thanks muskyman. I'll open another thread on this question. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
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Musky:
You comment that the ARB is difficult to install. Is this due to the pinion preload and gear backlash, or is it due to the air line plumbing?
Someday, I'll come through with that pic of my Disco in front of the "Tower" at the IH plant... Too bad they took the sign down.
Paul |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:49 pm: |
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no the pinion depth and backlash is no tougher then any other locker, and because of how tight there tolorances are they may be easier. I gernaded one in my rear D44 and the new one went in perfect right down to the last shim! it never went back in my truck because I built a ARB'd D60 but it has lived problem free in another truck since.
the tough part is lots of people cut the o-rings when they are pushing air collar onto the center section. then they work for awhile then blow that o ring and have to come back out.
also many people have a hard time with the case fitting for some reason?
I use moly paste on the o-rings setting them up and the o-rings do better.
plumbing the things is where most problems start, if there are leaks in the air line they engage much slower and if its in a tight spot where you let off the throttle hit the botton and get back on you could brake the locker if its not fully engaged.
I think the old blue lines are just kinda shit and doing away with them has fixed the problem on for many a wheelers |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:53 pm: |
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one more thing...I have heard where people say that they push fluid past the pinion seal
this is the sign that the o-rings are bad,even if the locker still funtions. its not suposed to presurize the case.
also if fluid comes up the breather line...o-rings bad again. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 06:16 pm: |
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a bit of an oily mess - have to keep a rag over the purge outlet since it coughs up a bit when you disengage
 |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 10:59 pm: |
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Blue,
That is a sweet setup . I like the placement of the pump.
Ron, I am sorry. I just now saw your post!! I don't know how I missed it but I will answer your question.
This ARB is for the disco (D1). Its been seeing a good amount of action and the forecast is for even more. I think the ARB would be a nice addition.
One thing Ron, I have been wondering about maybe getting an Detriot for the back of the 109 (or an ARB for that matter). Could you please let me in as to how to get a Detriot for the Salisbury for under 400 bucks? Please E-mail me off line at [email protected]
Thanks to all who have helped me with my decision.
Max T. |
Ron
| | Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 12:20 am: |
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Hey Max,
No need to email off list. Any of the major gear places sell them that inexpensively. drivetrain direct, randy's ring and pinion, rosser, etc. etc. etc. You should be able to get it for ~350 or less. It is way easier to install than an ARB and much less expensive as it just replaces the center section (this is fine as the stock housing is incredibly stong in a salisbury).
I think 225S36 is the PN for the detroit but they should be able to cross reference with just the year of your 109. |
Max Thomason (Lrmax)
| | Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 08:58 am: |
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Thanks Ron. Thanks for the part number too. I purchase most of my non-rover specialty off road crap at 4 Wheel Parts America. They have a store about 25 minutes from my house and they can come down a lot on the price. Thanks for the info.
As for installation, I probably won't do the installation of the locker to the diff. I'll pull the diff in my driveway and take it over somewhere and let them install it. I'm good, but not that good .
Thanks again.
Max T. |
Ron
| | Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 10:41 pm: |
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Hey Max,
The neat thing is that in a salisbury pulling the diff is it. Then you open it, drop the new one in, bolt it back together and undo the little nut on the detroit. No gear set up or nothing. On an arb obviously it requires set up.
Ron |
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