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Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:43 pm: | 
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In the "Crazy ARB Question" thread, I asked if the ARB compressor will run air tools. Muskyman thoughtfully told me there's just no frickin' way, Mr. Bigglesworth (to paraphrase).
I don't have lockers yet, or an adequate trail air solution. I'll likely get air before I get locking diffs, but I like the idea of an ARB in the rear at least. So if I got an air locker later I could power it with the air system I get sooner. I could get a PowerTank, but I'd rather have an onboard compressor, I think. I'd probably never get around to filling up my PowerTanks, and I'd rather just pay for something once (compressor & tank) and be done with it. If I get a compressor, I'd like to be able to run pneumatic tools off the compressor while I'm out somewhere.
Is there any solution that allows me to do this, or am I just dreaming? Any other compressors & tanks that are heavier duty than the ARB one or would they just be too large and unweildy to keep in my vehicle the rest of the week when I'm not off-road? |
Ali
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:48 pm: |
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You can run an impact tool if you have a decent air carrying capacity; ie small tank. However, that's about all you can run with an onboard air comp. The air ratchets simply require too much cfm for these little air compressors to keep up. A powertank type co2 tank is about the least expensive way to run all sorts of air tools on the trails.
I have a mechanically driven pump in my RR and it still can't keep up with an air ratchet! |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:50 pm: |
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To provide a consistent supply of air for running tools, you need either a CO2 solution, or a compressor that runs off of your engine with a good sized reserve tank.
It would be a custom install and probably run you over $400 for the parts. Just a guess from what I know of others who have done this.
Get two CO2 tanks so you can drain one without worry and have the other full and buy yourself time to get the other filled. You can make your own cheap, or for cheaper than PowerTank go to http://www.4wheelair.com
Tom. |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:51 pm: |
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Damn, Ali, you were who I was thinking of. You snuck that in while I was typing. Scratch all that about the engine solution... |
Steve (Scrover)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 01:25 pm: |
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I saw this in action at Sema. It will definitely run your tools and anything else your might want to inflate (tent companion perhaps!), if your wallet can handle it:
http://www.oasisoffroad.com/trailheadAirCompressor.html
Steve |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 02:20 pm: |
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I'm pretty new to all of this stuff. So does an air ratchet do the same thing as an impact wrench, only faster? Or are they for different purposes?
Ali, did you use the compressor from your air suspension on the RR or a different compressor?
Steve, that's a pretty nice compressor. But $$$, wow! |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 02:48 pm: |
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you can build an oasis for under $150 if you want, all it is is a starter motor connected to a york compressor.
if you ask detailed questions they will also tell you the duty cycle and then you may be let down . these york compressors need about 5hp to run how long can you run a 5hp electric motor on 12 volts? how long do you like to crank your starter non-stop?
can you say lil smoker?
do a search on pirate guys have allready burnt them up.
mechanical is the way to go if you really want to run air tools on the trail or fill up everybody elses tires at the trail head
I think air tools on the trail are a catch 22 if you carry all that weight your more likely gonna break something and need the impacts to fix it.
FWIW |
Steve (Scrover)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 02:56 pm: |
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You're right musky, it would probably smoke with extended use. They do offer a 24V option, but then again, how long would you ever run it for on the trail, unless you were stripping somebody's rig!? |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 03:18 pm: |
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the thing that bounces to the front of my head is that motor isnt big enough for the pump thats all.
they are good pumps and some people have had good luck with them, I just wouldent run air tools with them. they are fast to inflate a tire and that works in there favor because the duty cycle isnt that long. |
Ron A
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 03:22 pm: |
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if your serious about using air tools (or just don't like to wait 45 minutes while you air up your 37's) use your existing air conditioning compressor or add another. I'm just assembling the fittings to convert my compressor but I know 2 other RR that have added an additional compressor (one uses a LR compressor the other uses a BMW because its smaller).
Its a lot less expensive than buying a high output (6+ cfm) compressor.
A Viair 500 series is a nice 12v compressor and you can get it under $300.
Ron A |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 03:44 pm: |
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Hey Ron that's what I'm sort of considering doing. You're in Orange County, right? SCLR? I'm planning on joining that so maybe I'll run into you some time and take a look at your setup after it's done.
If you use your existing A/C compressor then you no longer have A/C, correct? Or can it do double duty?
I've been reading that some A/C compressors use the freon as a lubricant and that doesn't work for this use. Do you know if this is the case for the ones in the Disco?
The air tools consideration is tertiary to being able to air up my tires and run my eventual ARB locker(s). I'm not very mechanically minded at all but I'm trying to learn, and part of that is going to involve getting better tools at home. So I figured if I was getting air tools anyways it would be nice to be able to use them from my vehicle. |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 06:27 pm: |
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Ron,
you know, you could also use an old York from a jeep... I even know where to find one or two 
it airs up tires almost as fast as CO2 tank with regulator set at 150psi. but the mofo's really big.
from my recent experience - 5lb of CO2 will take you through an installation of a complete set of springs and shocks on a Rover, replacing 4 shocks and two leaf springs on a Jeep, and topping off a bunch of tires. Still, have 15lb left.
peter |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 06:43 pm: |
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Andrew,
there is a detailed write-up on York A/C compressor conversion to an air pump.
peter |
curquieta
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 03:21 am: |
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I use powertanks, they seem to work fine. |
Ron A
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 11:45 am: |
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the york is used because it has a separate oil reservoir so it is the most common conversion. But what you can do is �T� off the oil breather line to lubricate a standard compressor.
I got tired of fixing my air conditioning every couple of years plus I drive with the windows down and sunroof open most of the time so I�m not really in need of air.
Talk to Alan L. or Eddie B. (land rover unlimited) if you want someone to do the conversion.
I like power tanks but they do eventually have to be recharged and it can sometimes be at the most inconvenient time, I�d rather have continuous air available. I also have a quick air II as a backup.
And peter I don�t want your yorks I want the dana 44 off your truck (LOL)
Ron A |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 11:59 am: |
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Peter, maybe when I'm ready to try this project out (hopefully early next year) I'll see if you still know where I can get a York compressor.
I was just thinking yesterday that it might be cool to have "group work days" or something. Like everybody in a given area (southern california in my case) who wants to, gets together and does something like install sliders, or put in air compressors or something. Might be a fun way to do upgrades. Or maybe this is already happening and I just don't know about it :-0
Ron, I think I met you at LRU back at the end of August. I was leaving town at the time, getting them to put in a new steering dampener. It might not have been you though. Anyways... |
Ron A
| | Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 03:04 am: |
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yea I pop in to see Eddie at LRU every once in a while, even had to write him a big check once. (LOL)
talk to the board members of your club to put together a work day, hey one of them may even be reading this conversation (haa haa haa ho ho ho)
if you're just looking for air I'd buy a small 12v compressor and a small tank and be done with it, everything else takes time to install and can get kind of expensive.
ron a |
Andrew Clarke (Aclarke)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 02:07 pm: |
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Well, that's an idea. I thought the consensus on these 12V compressors was that they burn out pretty quickly, though.
I originally just got one of those cheap portable pumps, until I realized that it takes about 1/2 an hour to do each tire and doesn't pump them over 30psi. Oh well. |
Ron A
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 04:55 pm: |
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A Pep Boys compressor may burn out but I haven't heard anyone complain about the more commonly used onboard compressors such as quickair, viair, kilby (which uses a york compressor), trailhead and I'm sure there are others.
I forgot to mention that I also am a big fan of the powertank and think it is one of the best ways to have air. I prefer a high output compressor on my offroad rig but the powertank may just fit all your needs.
good luck,
ron a |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 05:09 pm: |
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Ron,
which of my dana 44s do you want? I have three now. one of them - with 5x5.5 bolt pattern, geared about 4.10, and you need a hub puller to change the brake shoes.
Andrew, the "club day" is what SoCalXJ folks seem to be doing. Very neat.
York compressor you can find on any mid-80s and earlier Wagoneer at a junk yard.
peter |
Keith Kreutzer (Revor)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 09:14 pm: |
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York compressors will last a life time... I've used one in my Jeep for about 7 years now and keeping up with the oil use and using reasonable filtration has provided me with a reliable system! I have a 2.5 gallon tank in the back and hve used it for everything from impact wrench's to a pneumatic blender (when we're back from the trail of course) and i've been very satisfied... Now I need to mount one to the Disco... Can't use the OEM unit! what wheel without AC!!! My wife would kill ME!!!
Anyway pick up those Jeep yorks and save them... They're great! |
Ron A
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 10:07 pm: |
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damn pm if you're serious send me a note and we'll work something out on the 44.
Keith is correct, a york will probably outlast your truck. Its a reciprocating compressor with an oil reservoir and they just keep working. Problem is that you would have to find a suitable place to put it (its called an upright because it needs to be� upright) and then fab the brackets for mounting, get the pully/clutch mounted� it can be a bit of a task. I helped with a bronco install and it took awhile, oh and we had plenty of room to work with so I don�t know how easy it would be in a LR.
I mentioned Kilby (http://www.onboardair.com/) as a source if you want a package but I haven�t seen anyone that makes a mounting kit for a LR.
ron a |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 11:09 pm: |
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LOL Ron,
i may be serious but I'm lazy. you don't want that '68 dana 44, 'cause it's a POS, and the ones off my 79 are by far wider than the rangie. even with tires as big as you sport now
but... why would you even want one? they are barely adequate for 35"s...
peter |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 12:42 am: |
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Impact wrenches? Pneumatic blenders? What have we come to here? C'mon guys - real mechanics don;t even use that crap in thier garages if they respect thier own work. Why would we carry it out on to the trail? There is nothing wrong with manual tools. Furthermore, if a sensible person carries pneumatics, they will have to have manual tools as backups for when you have a component failiure. Why even bring the extra weight?
Curtis |
Ron A
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 03:15 am: |
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Scuze� the hijack for a second�
-pm I�ve got the 9� rear and all the gizzards for the D44 so I�m taking a good look at rolling it under the rover. Do I know what I�m doing� fuck no but that never stopped me before (LOL).
Curtis, two of the guys I go offroad with are professional mechanics and they carry just about every pneumatic tool available. They�re also the first to jump on your truck and help you fix it.
Pneumatic blender� damn now that�s a good reason to have onboard air (LOL).
ron a |
nadim
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 03:17 am: |
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Anyone can help me set-up a used scuba air tank?
PLEASE! |
trevor griffiths (Trevorgriffiths)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 09:26 am: |
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I took two air tanks from a Range Rover with air suspension and mounted them next to the frame under the passenger and driver's floor.
(If Kyle reads this, I did relocate them up higher out of harm's way!)
This gave me 20 liters storage for running air tools etc. I also carry a powertank.
Trevor |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 12:40 pm: |
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Curtis,
sure, sure.... ever tried to break a pinion yoke nut loose?
Ron, i've used to like my D44s, but not after i snapped an axle where i absolutely shouldn't have (Bronco Hill in Coyotes). Now, with even larger tires... and setting the backlash on a 44 (or any similar axle for that matter) is a bitch. If I had time to mess with that, i'd get myself a wide-ass 9" and have the pass. side chopped.
peter |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 12:03 am: |
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I will admit, a good air hammer/chisel will go a long way in seperating cold-welded or otherwise frozen metals. I also think Powertak et al. is a great idea, but the running of air tools is secondary to tire inflation and bead setting.
Curtis |
Ron A
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 03:19 pm: |
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beadlockers so no need to reseat beads, trailer the rig so I never air up until I get home, so if I get rid of that damn ARB I wouldn't need air.. (grin)
air tools are definitely secondary to other requirements but like a winch or a welder they're sure nice to have and somehow you always end up using them.
BTW someone reminded me that CO2 is an active gas and that it will have an adverse reaction with the rubber over time so it would be a good idea to replace the CO2 with air at some point.
ron a |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 03:25 pm: |
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Ron, CO2 is not _that_ active of a gas. At least, I haven't seen any a problems with the rubber over three years. However, it can be assumed confirmed, that tires filled with CO2 lose pressure faster than those with air.
Bead setting - one blast of CO2 from the tank with the high-flow regulator set at 150psi, with the valve core removed, seats the bead. Oh, I used a rope around the circumference of the tire, but it didn't seem to spread the sidewalls a whole lot.
BTW, there's a nice thing about the quick-disconnect coupler - it fits perfectly around the tire valve.
peter |
Ron A
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 03:57 pm: |
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pm I agree that most people would wear out thier tires before they had problems with CO2 and as you know the air here in california is harder on the exterior than anything you could put inside (LOL).
ron a |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 04:02 pm: |
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LOL, despite all the noble efforts of CARB |
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