| Author |
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J
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:04 pm: | 
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I took my D2 for service today (warranty work, recall, and 30K service). I scheduled the appointment well in advance (not yet knowing about the recall) so they would have a service loaner available and they ended up giving me a Freelander rather than a Disco 2. Is this status quo?
To make matters more interesting, I noticed on my way out of the dealer lot that the driver's window on the Freelander wouldn't roll down. I went back and informed them and they said they would take it ouf of service when I brought it back. Not only that but we had just diucussed how I take the TOLLWAY to work. The dealer response to that "well that's going to be a pain in the ass, just open your door to pay". Don't they know how narrow tollbooths are? Not to mention, who knows where the change is going to go when its thrown backwards out of a door!
I guess I can rule out trips thru the drive thru and ATM as well. |
Jeremy (Highmile)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:12 pm: |
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At least you get a Land Rover. Our local dealer will only loan out Land Rovers when your vehicle is in for more than 3 days. Last time I had service performed, I had the choice of a Chevy Cavalier, Ford Escort or Chevy Silverado. I took the Silverado. The thought of somebody bringing in their $70k Range Rover for scheduled maintenance and receive a Ford Escort as a loaner brings a smile to my face. |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:19 pm: |
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yeah that is rude. i had a similar situation in VT at a non LR dealer, but 'specialized' in rovers. dropped my truck off to have a new steering box installed for about $600 or whatever it was. they gave me a god damn reliant K. i about went postal. it was a total POS!! smelled like gas had like 120K on it. my repair was about the same as the worth of that car.
they ended up giving me a MB 300. |
JRoc
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:24 pm: |
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Jeremy I would let the service manager know how I felt! No way would I accept a ford escort or chevy cavalier as a loaner! If I had a option of going somewhere else I would! Also, I'd let Land Rover North America know that I was VERY disappointed with the loaner car selection at this particular dealership. Don't let yourself be treated like this! Use the power you have! And J, let everyone on this board know which dealership this was. |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:27 pm: |
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Dealers are only obligated to provide alternate transportation. This can even mean calling you a cab or taking you to the bus/train stop. The courtesy cars are just that... a courtesy. The sales department pays for the loaners, not the service department. Putting you in a Freelander is not rude. Think of what a great selling tool that is. Would you normally come in and drive one? But now that you drove one, maybe you realize so&so would love to have one. Maybe you want to downsize. Whatever.
HOWEVER, That they didn't fix your window WAS rude. We figured out that it's fixed by putting in a higher amp fuse. But maybe that dealer hasn't figured that out yet. |
JRoc
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:35 pm: |
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You also have the option to get your service at a different dealership that provides you with better service. Hopefully you live in a area that has more than one dealership. With the amount of money they charge you at the dealership for service, they could afford to rent you a limo and still make money! Some are just plain GREEDY! Good Luck |
Sean J
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 04:37 pm: |
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Garrett,
A K-car??? I haven't heard of a K-car since the movie Swingers (remember, Sue's car). I laughed out loud when I read that.
Alyssa,
Agreed. I think I was just put out by the whole window deal, especially when they knew about the tollway. Other than that they were very professional, and given the other posts on this string, I would rather have a Freelander than a K-car or Cavalier (also referenced in the movie Swingers). |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 07:08 pm: |
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alyssa. i was referring to the cavalier, not the freelander. anyone should/would be happy with that i am assuming. but to take a car in for any length of time over a day or 2 and put them in some POS is a little out of line. like the place i took my truck. i was incredible pissed when i took my truck in to have big $$ work done on it to have them hand over keys to a car that should have most likely not been on the road. and another time the 'shuttle' car (a peugot 505) busted a tie rod on the way to my office.  that was fun.
the LR dealer in harrisburg is pretty sweet. if you bought your truck there (used or new) they will come to state college (1 1/2hours one way) and pick up your truck and leave a loner rover. that is what i call service!!!! |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 07:11 pm: |
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Shit, I just might take mine in for an overnight oil change if I could get a freelander. Land Rover Scottsdale has a shining fleet of Toyota Corrollas (or Camry's - whichever is the cheaper one)... |
tricky
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 07:54 pm: |
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You guys don't know how lucky you are. I had my D2 serviced (out of warranty) by a specialised Rover mechanic, and in return, they loaned me a 1971 Subaru Sherpa 2 cylinder 3 speed buzz box. It went really well except for the noise and smell! Similar milage to the TD5 though! I still look back fondly to having an experience I would not ordinarily have! |
Craig
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 08:03 pm: |
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"You'll get nothing and like it Spalding"
This thread is just plain wrong-
Craig |
Erik Olson (Jon)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 08:03 pm: |
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I just had service done at Cole European (two days worth) and they didn't have a car for loan but offered to call Hertz for me (on my dime, by the way).
LOL
Erik |
gdav
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:00 am: |
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I've driven almost every member of Scottsdale Landrover's shining toyota fleet (48 strong). in fact i have one sitting in my driveway right now for who knows how long. It's nice to have a ride while living in the Rover Zone. |
94Rover
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:33 am: |
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Sheeeit, I took my 94Rover in for some last minute repairs(08/2000) before I decided to ditch the *stupid* EAS, and I got a nice Buick Regal GS- It was a 2000 year model, fully optioned one......but I still don't care much for the old FRANKEL LAND ROVER esp. Jeff- Hope you are reading this Jeff- Thanks for nothing..
Oh and I too agree with Alyssa.... |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 07:44 am: |
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This is like the third or fourth reference I've seen on this board to some guy named Jeff who people don't like. What's the story? Inquiring (nosey;-) minds want to know!
Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit <--For Sale
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/forsale.htm |
Bill Leek
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 08:50 am: |
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Wow, Tricky. I haven't seen or heard of a Subaru Sherpa since I had a summer job in Santa Fe, NM back in 1972. There were 2 at the Mission I worked at that summer, and we loved them. One was a van and the other had a small pickup-style box. They were so small and slow, but could negotiate Santa Fe's narrow, winding streets better than anything larger than a moped. Small 2-cylinder, 2-cycle engine. Old grandmas with walkers could accelerate faster. But, fun to drive around town. We even carried an old piano in the pickup once. That was some trip. |
Mike M
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 09:55 am: |
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The Dealers just don't get it. They actually may sell a new LR to an existing LR owner if they had a chance to drive a new model for a little while. It's that kind of petty treatment that turns people off. I wonder how many repeat customers for vehicle purchases LRNA gets. I'll bet the average is much higher in other brands and is all because of poor customer service after the sale. Too bad because LR makes one heck of a nice vehicle.
Mike M |
Mosi
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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So mine goes in tomorrow for a new radiator (warranty) and they won't give me a loaner. There is only one LR dealership in Portland and it's in about the worst traffic area of the city. I have to leave work early to drop it off tonight and have my GF follow me to give me a ride back home. Then tomorrow, I get to leave work early again and hitch a ride with a co-worker to pick it up. It's very inconvenient for me to get to the dealership as it is turns out to be a rather large production.
I also asked if they could hammer out the recall stuff (D2) while it's in, and they said "we are only doing recall work in order by year". Uhhhhh.. excuse me? That's a bunch of sh*t! So I get to do this all over again when it's "my turn" for the recall work!
When I had my Acura, the dealership always offered a loaner car to run errands whenever it was in for service, including when I would take it in for the free oil changes!
Love the truck, hate the service!
Mosi |
JRoc
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 12:56 pm: |
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Mosi,
Get in touch with Land Rover North America. Write, e-mail, Telephone, whatever! I'm sure they don't want there customers being treated like this. With these sort of things you have to go to the top. I'd first try the person who manages the dealership, then if that doesn't work go to LRNA. And don't be shy about letting them know that you frequent this board, and discuss Land Rover matters with current, as well as future, Land Rover owners. Good Luck |
Andy Nix (Andy)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:38 pm: |
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LR Portland is an interesting outfit. They charge WAY too much. In fact, they charge TWICE as much for the 60k tune up, etc, than Seattle or Bellevue LR. Pretty ridiculous. But their service guys are awesome- atleast in my experience with LR Portland.
BTW - If you think MLK is hard to get to, try getting to dowtown seattle in the morning. No matter where you go, it's an inconvenience not to have your own vehicle.
IMHO - M2C |
JB
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 02:45 pm: |
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Maybe they should put a sticker on the back of the loaner car that says,
"My other car is a brokendown LandRover"
jeesh - so many expecting so much.
CRAIG -I still have tears in my eyes from reading your Spalding quote - right on brother!
Ever put in the part time LT230 in the bobtail?
JB |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 06:17 pm: |
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Ok, ok. Lets talk about loaners. This is how it works. LRNA says to each dealer, "This is how many cars you can have from us this month. You can order X Discovery SDs, Y Discovery SEs, Z 7 Seat Discoverys, XX Freelander Ss, YY Freelander SEs, etc... Of those, you may put ZZ vehicles into loaner service." Currently, there is only a loaner program on Freelanders, so that's what gets put into service. No more Discoverys, no range rovers. Land Rover allows each dealer to put only so many vehicles into service. If those vehicles remain in service for a pre-specified amount of time, Land Rover will give the dealer a certain amount of money for depreciation. Land Rover decides the number of new vehicles each dealer can get based on their sales numbers and other factors. So, if you have a dealership that thrives on service but stinks in sales, you will always be lacking loaners. Land Rover used to reimburse the dealer for a rental car, but now they don't. The thinking was that they wanted all Land Rover owners with newer Rovers in a Land Rover when they're in for service. Unfortunately, they didn't step up the number of loaners each dealer could have in service at any one time. So now, dealers are trying to make do with the few loaners that they have available, and more customers are ending up in rentals (on the dealers' dime).
ALSO, customers who are in loaners don't always bring them back. Lets say we have 9 vehicles in loaner service, all out with customers. 6 of them are currently with customers in for major repairs (and will be in them for a while). 2 of them came in for scheduled maintenance, and 1 of them was in for a radiator replacement. The last 3 of them are told that their vehicles are ready for pickup, and they can come until 8 pm to get their car. 2 of them don't show up. One of them got caught in a meeting, and wouldn't be able to get there until 10 pm. One of them decided to run go shopping, and totally spaced on picking up their car. NOW, considering that you have 3 new customers scheduled for appointments with loaner vehicles at 8 am the next morning, what do you do? You are short 2 loaners. What choice do you have but to get a rental vehicle for those customers?
But, if you have a Land Rover Certified vehicle, Land Rover will be reimbursed for a rental, so that is most likely what you will get.
Also, if you're in for an intermediate oil change (3500 miles), an alignment, a state inspection, body shop work, accessory installation, or other non warranty work, you DO NOT qualify for a loaner.
BELIEVE ME, the dealer doesn't want you in a rental vehicle. When you are in a rental (unless you are in under a Certified warranty or in for Insurance work), the dealer is paying for your rental. We realize that rentals suck. But they're better than nothing, right? And more times than not, our hands are tied.
NOW, all that said, some dealers just suck, and I acknowledge that. We're not all bad guys, though. Another word of warning. Treat the dealer nice. If you give a bad survey, or you complain to LRNA without trying to resolve it with the dealer, you're likely to get pushed to the bottom of the barrel the next time you are in. I'm not talking about legitimate complaints, or truly bad experiences, but rather nit-picking, lack of understanding, unreasonableness, or complaining to LRNA AFTER your problem has been resolved. If you say anything other than excellent on your surveys, EVERYONE at the dealership feels it in their paycheck. From the lot boy to the Centre Manager, that survey makes up a lot of our income. Usually, that makes us all work really hard to make everything perfect for you, and if we screw up, we get punished. It's a great system.... until we get a problem customer. Some people complain just for the sake of complaining, and that's where the system fails. We all see the survey and the complaint when you make one. Try getting cheerful treatment from the dealer after the dealer tried to please you, but you decided to give everyone a cut in pay instead. |
Mosi
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 07:05 pm: |
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RE: "NOW, all that said, some dealers just suck, and I acknowledge that. We're not all bad guys, though. Another word of warning. Treat the dealer nice. If you give a bad survey, or you complain to LRNA without trying to resolve it with the dealer, you're likely to get pushed to the bottom of the barrel the next time you are in"
My mentality when a service is rendered for something that I PAID for, I will give back the same attitude that was given to me. If I get crappy service, it's my right to do what I see fit because I'm the one that forked over the 34k, $5, .50 cents, or whatever amount of money that I fork over for whatever the product may be. We the consumer are the ones that keep folks like Land Rover in business. So many companies are starting to follow suit and provide "so so" customer service. My company strives to do anything it can to make things better for customers, not "put them at the bottom of the barrel" if someone nit picks. If we get nit picky customer, we find ways to make our service better.
my .02 |
alyssa
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 07:24 pm: |
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Mosi,
We try to do the best we possibly can for our customers. We go out of our way to make things right. We have technicians stay until LATE at night to get cars done for people. I will stop what I'm doing and wash a car if the lot people have gone home and it's my customer picking up. I will deliver the car if it took longer than it should have. I routinely stay late to get things done on time and done right for customers.
What I'm talking about is customers who blame the dealer for something breaking on the car (that had absolutely nothing to do with the dealer), and taking that frustration out on us. We all work ridiculously long hours, and much of that is making sure that everything is done right. When someone comes in and screams at us for something we didn't do, that doesn't help the situation. Complaining to LRNA about the DEALER when it's really your VEHICLE that is the problem isn't fair to us.
The first time a customer complains, that's completely understandable. We'll try harder to make it perfect next time. The second time, ok, we need to be 150% with this customer. The third time, forget it. The customer is NEVER going to be happy. No matter how flawless your service is, that customer will not be pleased. THESE are the customers I'm talking about. If you've got a legitimate complaint, voice it. |
Mosi
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 09:34 pm: |
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Alyssa,
Customer service can be a very tricky thing sometimes. It sounds like your dept. does it by the book and then some which is great. It is very pathetic how some places don't share our view on how to treat customers. Take clothing retail for instance.. 10 years ago, you couldn't get through the door of a store without being assulted by friendly people. Now, 1 out of 10 places I go come with a "hi, how are you" type of greeting and the other 9 have employees that are just pissed off that they have to be there. |
Bruce
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
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Alyssa,
wished you worked in Tampa. The LR centre service sucks, IMHO. I had to give them a try since the other LR dealer was much futher away. I had approximately 10 interactions, 7 were very poor, with the last encounter resulting in a letter to the dealer. Their response, "this is why it happended", not what can we do to win your business back. I did not wrtie LRNA, instead, I vote with my wallet and now use the other dealer.
Maybe I should write LRNA, time for some changes for the Tampa LR Centre. |
Scott MacGregor (Spm)
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:31 pm: |
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Wow, this discussion makes me have a whole new appriciation for my dealer of choice LR Buckhead in Atlanta. I've never just dropped in but, given notice I get a LR product, except once I got a rental and that time they apologized like they had just ruined my life. That includes regular maintainance. Heck, they send me home the two and a half hours to Augusta and if I'm not back in Atlanta on business the day it's ready they send a guy over here in my car to pick up the loaner. Always though this was great, but didn't realize it wasn't the norm. |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:18 pm: |
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Another word of warning. Treat the dealer nice. If you give a bad survey, or you complain to LRNA without
trying to resolve it with the dealer, you're likely to get pushed to the bottom of the barrel the next time
you are in.
Alyssa,
I found your comment rather offensive.
I used to treat my dealer very nice, to get slammed EVERY time I went there, with something done not quite right, the price going at least a C-bill over the estimate (with my club discount not factored into the estimate!), and more problems appearing with the Disco after every visit. And, EVERY time I've been walking out of the dealership I felt a bunch of laughter behind my back. In your words, I never felt ever getting off the bottom of that barrel.
To be fair, I've been refraining from negative comments for a year and a half, writing my negative experience with a dealer off as my lack of rover-specific knowledge.
BTW, the same dealer sells and services Porsches, and I heard even worse comments from the P's owners.
I would be very happy to see this scenario to occur:
- dealer does timely and honest work, and charges according to the estimate, REGARDLESS of how nice they deem the customer's attitude.
Somehow, it seems to rarely be happening.
So, please, stop the BS about treating the dealer nice. It's us paying money to the dealer, not the other way around.
Peter |
alyssa
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:25 pm: |
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Bruce, try Dimmitt Land Rover. I used to live in Sarasota (before they had a centre), and bought my Discovery from Dimmitt. Since they're Rolls Royce, Bentley, LR, and Cadillac, they have superb service. Free massages, Golfing, Shoe Shines, Movie Theater, Popcorn, cookies, bingo, an actual off-road course, all on site. After my first service with Dimmitt, they called me a day later to ask how everything went. It took a lot longer than it was supposed to, and we were waiting. I told them that. (I was home for spring break, and lost a whole day getting my service done). The next day, I received a package from them that had mugs, shirts, and a letter of apology. Now THAT's what I call service.
I wasn't too impressed with LR Tampa, either. |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:26 pm: |
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Do unto others...
IMHO, be nice, and expect nice. If you have someone like Alyssa at the dealership to deal with, then all's well. But then if I tried that at Peter's, and they treated me the way they did, then I'd be poppin' off a BIG gripe to LRNA...
FWIW...
-L |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:44 pm: |
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Peter, as I said, SOME DEALERS SUCK! And it sure sounds like you've got one that does. If they also do porsches, they aren't a centre. That means that your surveys don't mean anything, because they don't get paid any appreciable amount for good responses. There aren't any standards that a non-centre LR dealer has to abide by. If it's a centre, that's different.
I don't work at your dealer, and I didn't do those things to you. I don't think their actions are right, and I would be mad, too. I'm sorry that you are treated that way. In a perfect world, everyone would do the very best they could possibly do, the right people would be in the right job, everyone would be polite and understanding all the time, people wouldn't work with their own personal motives in play, and the customer would always be king. Unfortunately, life isn't like that.
...and, if you read the whole length of what I've written, you'd see that I wasn't talking about a customer like you.
I'm not representing every dealers' opinion here, either! I provided the factual way that the service loaner program works, with some personal observation, too. I've been a LR customer a lot longer than I've worked for any dealership. I'm in sales, not in service. I see what goes on at our dealerships, I see us working our hardest to get it right, I see the customers who appreciate that, I see the customers who don't care, I see the customers that come in that are just awful to deal with.
When I was just a customer, I didn't realize how important those surveys were to the dealer. ...and I don't think that most people do. I was trying to get you guys to understand the way the system works. |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:44 pm: |
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hehehe...
Leslie, of course it pays to be nice in general.
The points i tried to make were -
- i don't have to build a relationship with my dealer to expect a good and honest service, and
- i get bombed regardless
To be fair, LR dealer wasn't much different from a Jeep or Ford dealers in town. It just charged more.
peter |
JRoc
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:17 pm: |
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Peter,
Bad service is NEVER acceptable! As a consumer we all have a right to good service. Owning a Land Rover is not cheap and therefore the owners of such vehicles expect good service. I too was a little weary about what Alyssa said at first. But upon rereading it I noticed that she just really was trying to emphasize that contacting LRNA has a tremendous impact on that dealer, and this should not be done carelessly. My experience at my dealer's service center was great. Pleasant, Helpful, and curtious. However, when I asked about obtaining the service records for the vehicle I had just purchased, they said they didn't have there computer hooked up to a printer. The person I bought the vehicle from had the vehicle serviced there regularly. They did confirm this, but refused to provide me with a copy of the records. I will be going back to the dealership to speak with the service manager and see if we can straighten this out. If not, I will not hesitate to go to LRNA and work this out! If you recieve bad service and report it to LRNA, is the threat of bad service going to stop you??? Of course not! Keep in mind, Alyssa is on our side(LOL). She's actually helping quite a few people on this board. So go easy on her, and thanks Alyssa. |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:22 pm: |
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You know,
Maybe they ran out of printer ink, or had a serious jam that needed repair, or etc. etc. So, the printer was unplugged.
I would think that they would have had more than one printer in the place that could have sufficed, but maybe not.
Possibly, you could have said "Well, I'll be back to pick up a copy after you get a printer working." Then they could fix the problem, then give you the records.
Now, if they have a printer running and still refuse, then by-all-means go ahead and let 'em have it through LRNA, and change dealerships that you visit.
But, maybe they just needed to get a printer fixed.
FWIW....
-L |
JRoc
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:32 pm: |
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Leslie,
If I remember correctly it was more like, we don't do that, we don't even have a printer hooked up to the computer. I was in a rush so I let it slide. I probably should've taken the time to clear that up right then and there. They did offer to look up anything I needed to know, so we'll see. It seems others have had a problem of this nature with the same dealership. I'll keep everyone posted. |
Greg P
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:37 pm: |
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Seems like we should be asking the question to Land Rover, "Why are so many dealer visits necessary?" My impression has been that the dealers are overwhelmed with repairs. I like my rover, but will definately say it is a quirky product that appears to be full of "accepted" problems. Why is it so acceptable to produce a product that is constantly needing repairs? I've owned vehicles in the past that rarely ever needed dealer service. Anyway, my last visit, was just fine. Land Rover Main Line in Haverford, PA, did a great job. Even fixed something that I didn't even ask them about. The only thing they didn't fix was due to a lack of available part, but I would say that is the fault of someone in England, not Land Rover Main Line. As much as I hate to see a company like Ford owning Rover, maybe they will improve the system a little. However, look what Chrysler did to Jeep....... Killed them in my opinion. Made them nice little mass produced pieces of plastic crap.
Anyway, my experience was pleasant, although I was a bit nervous driving around in a large mushy bouncy car like a buick lesabre for a few days...... However, at the same time, I was thankful to have it to drive while my car was serviced. If anything, I probably drove them crazy calling each day to check on the service status.
Thanks Land Rover Main Line......
Produce and ship more parts.... Land Rover (Company)
Don't whine about the dealer if you willing keep purchasing a vehicle know to be a service money pit....... |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 03:34 pm: |
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Alyssa,
please don't take it as a personal insult.
The reason I reacted to your post was that I nearly always started a relationship being on a nice side, and it wasn't getting me anywhere with my dealer. I wrote it off as SOL and don't take my business to the dealer anymore. I didn't take my matters any further, to LRNA or BBB or elsewhere, however, and that may have been what I should have done.
A question to you, though - how nice a customer should be to his dealer to get a rear main seal leak fixed under warranty? I bet very few people fathomed it this far.
Peter |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 04:06 pm: |
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Peter, call LRNA, or try a different dealer. I don't know what else to say.
Unless you are at the very end of your warranty, absolute urgency on a rear main isn't generally necessary. They rarely leak bad enough to cause problems. Not to say that a leak is acceptable, or that your problem isn't valid. However, sometimes the service department is like the ER. The most urgent conditions get fixed first, no matter who was first in line. |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 04:14 pm: |
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Greg,
How are you doing?? Get that radiator repaired? Did you do the spring install yet? Anyway, Land Rover has made leaps and bounds in product quality. If you look at the numbers, Lexus, the most reliable company, has a rate of 1.1 problems per vehicle in the first 90 days. Land Rover has a rate of 1.8 problems per vehicle in the first 90 days. That isn't a huge difference. Land Rover even won the total quality award for customer satisfaction on all mid-size suvs in 2001 (and that included quality of the vehicle). We've come a long way. Of course, no problems are acceptable, but the numbers aren't as bad as people think. ...and we've got a darn good original warranty. |
Greg P
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 04:19 pm: |
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Doing well, Alyssa. I got everything but the radiator fixed, if u can believe that. The part was not available and has been ordered. I have not done the spring install, but am close to having my $$$ set aside to order the springs, shocks, brake lines and brackets from rovertym for the 2" lift. I'll keep you advised as I'll definately be looking for help to install them.
Glad to hear of the improvements at Land Rover. |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:11 pm: |
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hehehe Alyssa,
no, oil leak from the rear main seal ain't that bad, it only gets annoying to wipe it off my italian marble driveway
seriously, my 89 (grossly neglected) rangie is cleaner underside than the 96 (dealer serviced) disco. OTOH, there's a half-gallon puddle of ATF under the jeep....
peter |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 05:22 pm: |
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peter, $$$ to donuts it is the cross seals not the rear main.
Ron |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 07:55 pm: |
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Alyssa,
I am really pissed off!! You stated:
Another word of warning. Treat the dealer nice. If you give a bad survey, or you complain to LRNA without trying to resolve it with the dealer, you're likely to get pushed to the bottom of the barrel the next time you are in
You don't have to have an MBA to figure out that this is a load of crap! If I were to buy a car for $10,000 I might expect this type of service, but if landrover ever expects to be in the luxury car business this will never fly. I have been a landrover owner since the '80s when they actually treated their customers as an asset, and recently I have had nothing positive to say about my service. Unfortunately I live near only one "Landrover Centre" and cannot shop around for a dealer that can provide a level of service that is currently advertised, and was previously provided. I am assuming from your post that the level of service provided by the Landrover Centers should be consistent from center to center, and that the service should be excellent so that I should not have to shop around. This is not the case and you even acknowledged this in one of your bizarre posts. As I said previously stated I have been a rover owner for a while, and at the risk of starting another war on this list, I will admit that rovers are not the most reliable cars in the world. This fact was over shadowed for me by the fact that I used to recieve phenomenal service and the off-road capabilities were excellent. I think that this is the reason for the continued business that they have recieved and enjoyed from not ony myself but others. My father, a rover owner for years, just traded in his Range Rover for a Landcruiser because he literally was driving a loaner more than his own car. The new range rover and the disco III will have independent suspension and a variety of other non-off-road features, therby illiminating part the attraction to me. When I bought my last rover as an off-road vehicle for my ranch, I seriously considered the landcruiser because of the locking differential that is standard and the very good off-road capabilities, but the front IS and my good experience with all of my previous rovers lead me to the to an SD disco II. There appears to be no advantage, at least for me, in continuing my relationship with LRNA. I am nearing the end of my warranty and I will not continue to pay a premium price for sub-standard service. I am getting the impression from you that the treatment that I have been currently recieving is becoming the norm rather than the exception.
I know that I will be ruffling some feathers of some of the hard-core rover people on this list, but the very reason for our devotion to rovers is currently fading. If the new Defender is an excellent off-road vehicle, and the service improves I might reconsider my current position, but I don't see that happening. The new market is for the masses, and the masses want a car like the freelander. The only problem is, if the masses can get an SUV for less money and the service is equall or better at another dealership they will shop elsewhere. Landrover sells alot of vehicles, that never go off-road, on their image which, in my mind and I am sure in others, is rapidly fading. They cannot continue to make money on a very small hard-core customer base that frequents lists like this.
So, Alyssa, when LRNA gets my final survey after my last scheduled maintenance, I am sure they will be glad to hear that you helped make my decision to discontinue my relationship with them. But then, they might be glad to have to service space for all of those freelanders scheduled to come in! |
JRoc
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 08:40 pm: |
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Anon,
You might want to check out the service at the Toyota dealer you'll be using. I had a Landcruiser before my Disco and I was appalled at the service of ever single Toyota dealer I went to. I loved the Landcruiser as a vehicle and have nothing but praise for em, but the Toyota service sucked! I live in NY and was fortunate enough to have several dealers to chose from, and still with every service center it just got worse and worse. This is not to say that the Toyota dealer by you will be bad, they are all seperately owned and operated, but check it out before taking the plunge. I went with a friend to a Lexus dealer to get his car serviced and it's like night and day between them and Toyota. The service at Lexus was top notch. I think that they started a luxury division mostly to accommodate the more distinguished customer. People who were buying forty thousand dollar landcruisers didn't like being treated like corrolla owner! I think you should definately contact LRNA and let them know about your exerience though. Anyway, Good Luck and I sincerely hope it works out for you.
By the way I think you went a little hard on Alyssa. She doesn't own the company she's just trying to help us, and maybe secure her financial future in the process. Nothing wrong with that IMHO. I don't know her at all, but her efforts do seem sincere. |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 08:53 pm: |
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JRoc,
the anon post above wasn't mine; it seems to fall in line well, though.
i'd add to it that i would expect honest service for my money, regardless of whether i bring a shiny new rangie or a beat up escort. the LR hourly rate being 20-30% above the local average only makes the feeling worse.
peter |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:24 pm: |
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Anon,
From your post it sounds like you have a problem with THE DEALER in your area. If you are not happy with the level of service from THE DEALER you use let THEM know. If you are still not satisfied let LRNA know. Service should be at the highest level everywhere, unfortunately in some cases, it is not. And based on some sporatic info those dealers which are really bad lose their franchise. So if they deserve it AND they are unresponsive to your complaints give them crappy survey scores.
But to think you are going to get better service at a toyota dealer is insane. While the truck MIGHT be more reliable the techs will have less training, the sales staff will be inclined to sell camreys and corollas and there will be a level of service commensurate with that clientel.
New rovers are good trucks, but to think that they are the most reliable vehicle out there is unrealistic. You have more stuff to go wrong for starters.
LR does NOT subsist off of "hard core" people. In fact I am willing to bet that less than half the people on this board bought a new rover and even fewer are in warantee.
No LR subsists off "soccer" moms and rich old guys who never even put the truck in low range. Hard core people generally don't go to the dealer, they do their own services and sometimes even all their own repairs.
I think if you took a survey of this board I think you would find the above to be true.
Ron |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 10:08 pm: |
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Peter & Anon,
You should always expect honest service. Where on earth have you gotten from what I've written that I think the dealer has a right to be rude and dishonest? I'm saying the exact opposite. Human beings work at the dealer, and human beings aren't perfect. As with any problem resolution, you should seek satisfaction with the source FIRST, before going up the ladder. I was just trying to let everyone know that those surveys are just the same as going to the top of the ladder with a complaint, and monetarily punishing every single person in the dealership (ie, NOT the first step in problem resolution). Sometimes customers don't even let us know they have a problem, and then they complain to LRNA. Just please try to work out your dispute with the dealer first.
And I can't do anything about your particular dealer not being fabulous. Taking it out on me doesn't solve your problem. Direct that anger towards the service manager, and if you get no resolution, then go to LRNA. |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 01:33 am: |
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Damn! Anon, have the balls to sign your friggin' name if you're gonna slam someone....
I bought my used Disco from an independent wholesale dealer because they had a very clean Disco, nicer than what the nearest dealerships had, for a lot less than what the dealerships were insisting on for the ones they had. It's a '99SD, I bought it in May of 2000. it had around 20k on the odo, so it had plenty of factory warranty left on it.
If there was a dealer close by, I'd be inclined to go by quite often. I used to visit the dealership quite a bit when I lived near it, a couple of years before I was in a position to buy. Now, the problem is that there isn't a dealer in town, or in any adjacent town. It's a two-hour drive to get to the nearest dealers, one in Knoxville, the other in Asheville. By the time I get off work, I can't make it to either of them before they close, and they're not open for service on Saturdays... it seems silly to take a day off to get a vehicle worked on. My biggest gripe w/ LRNA is that there isn't a dealership in the Tri-Cities (Kingsport, Bristol, Johnson City, upper East TN). Supposedly there's going to be one opening in the next couple of years, but there's not one yet.
And, to be truthful, I didn't have ANY problems while it was under warranty. My problem is that I'm a high-mileage driver. I now have 79k on my odo... I've put almost 60k on it in less than 2 years. It's only recently that it has started to have little niggling issues... an intermittent flutter (that I'm hoping isn't valves), leaky PS... everything else is non-warranty items: burnt-out bulbs, shocks are shot, parking-lot dents, pinstriping from bushes, brakes, "permanent" mud stains in the engine bay.... that kind of thing.
LR does NOT subsist off of "hard core" people. In fact I am willing to bet that less than half the people on this board bought a new rover and even fewer are in warantee. No, LR subsists off "soccer" moms and rich old guys who never even put the truck in low range. Hard core people generally don't go to the dealer, they do their own services and sometimes even all their own repairs.
Bought used, out of warranty on mileage (not time), my truck has never gone back to the dealer, I do my own maintenence and repair.
If I had a decent dealership nearby, I actually might use them quite a bit. If not for anything else, but to just hang out, the way I do at TRG. I don't have loads of extra cash the way those "rich old guys" have, that's why I had to get a used Disco instead of a new one, because of the price difference. And, I don't grumble TOO much about not having a dealer, because I couldn't afford to pay to have done all of the stuff that I have done myself. I recognize that sometimes, though, it's nice to let someone else do it and just pay for it instead, if schedules are tight, or it's snowing (and I don't have a garage), etc. etc.
I'm rambling, so I'm gonna go to bed.... lol...
-L
Waiting on Land Rover Blountville, lol.... |
KJ
| | Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 11:40 pm: |
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Anon,
Pretty easy to pop off at the keyboard without signing your name. I'd say direct your anger where it belongs and don't slam the folks here who try to offer assistance.
Karen |
tricky
| | Posted on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 02:17 am: |
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RE:Wow, Tricky. I haven't seen or heard of a Subaru Sherpa since I had a summer job in Santa Fe, NM back in 1972.
Bill, I know this is a LR site, but I have a new appreciation for the comfort and ride and even power from my TD5 D2! The Sherpa cruised at 100km/h for an hour on the freeway here inPerth and the rubber band didn't even break! I was being born in the same year you were driving around Santa Fe, but I know how that must of felt as we get some pretty warm weather in Perth around this time of year! |
Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4)
| | Posted on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 09:18 am: |
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Has the red zit been sold??? |
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