| Author |
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Curt
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 02:11 am: | 
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I have had two D I's and I went to the dealer to look at a new D II. My dealer (very honest, reputable, and one of the biggest in the Chicago area) said he stopped selling ACE equipted disco's because of how many complaints he got about the VERY LOUD noises from the hydralics in the winter. Does anyone know if this is true. He had no ace equipted discos out of hundreds and he said he sells used ones at auction because people are getting pissed about the loud noises. Like I said, I don't think it is a sales tactic because these guys all know me and they know I will research this. Any FIRST HAND experiences would be great. Thanks. |
Ron
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 02:19 am: |
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they are loud, works great but loud and a stock DII handles really well to begin with (ok compared to a DI anyway)
when it first came out I said, does anyone remember the first generation EAS?
well, there you go.
Ron |
Paul Long
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 07:51 am: |
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My 99 with ACE is not loud by any means. A slight clunk is heard occasionally which is a system check (each cylinder goes through the check individually, I think every 4 minutes when on flat roadway, but so fast it is heard as one clunk). Radio on I can't hear it. After driving a month or so I got used to it, so unless your listening for it, mine is not noticeable. North East Pennsylvania roads are so patched, and town roads have so many tar strips going across from accessing sewer and water lines that a clunk from the suspension is not a factor for me. The winding roads here make the system very necessary and I'm very happy with it. No pump noise is heard. Only fault I would anticipate is a pump problem that would make you shut down motor immediately. For this I carry a serpentine belt for non-ACE vehicles to be able to connect the water pump, alternator, power steering & AC without the ACE pump turning. However hydraulic pumps (similar to power steering) rarely go bad without warning. |
Dave
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 09:04 am: |
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Curt,
I have a '00 DII with ACE. I have lot's of people ask me about the ACE in particular. I think it is louder than a stock DII. However, it is only noise associated with the haydraulic pump as Paul eludes to. I've had the car for a year now, and although the winter was relatively warm in New England, I've found the noise was purely something I'm used to. In fact I find it reassuring sometimes. But it is minimal. Many of the early models rigs like '99 and '00 can get the pump replaced for a new generation pump that is quieter by the dealership. Most do it for free if you complain enough. However, my adage has been; if it ain't broke or leaking lot's, don't take it to the dealer.
BTW, ACE is pretty damn cool offroad too. It allows your suspension to articulate a bit more that the stock suspension. Which is always good.. |
mats dahlstrom
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:44 pm: |
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Hi, I drive a D11 99 in Sweden were we can experience down to minus 25-30 deegrees celcius.
I have had no trouble with any noise from the ACE
system in wintertime. |
cederholm
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 01:48 pm: |
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I can't hear any ACE noise on my 99 over my roof rack noise.
Carl |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 07:01 pm: |
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For the DI owners out there, I doubt you'd ever notice ACE noise in a DII. If you've never owned a Rover, yep, it's loud. Some are louder than others.
A question I can ask you is WHY DO YOU THINK YOU NEED ACE?
I seriously have maybe 2 to 3 customers a YEAR who really need ACE. Those are the people who've only driven little BMWs or porsches their whole lives and are having a baby and need an SUV for the very first time.
If you've ever had an SUV, I doubt you'll notice much difference in an ACE-equipped Disco (other than the noise).
Off road, ACE does give you more articulation, but you've got to stick to those damn 18" wheels with the Goodyear tires. I'll take better traction over more articulation any day. |
Mark (Mistert)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 10:59 pm: |
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On ACE DII's you can put whatever size wheels you'd like. Everytime I go off-roading I swap the 18" with my 16" set. With absolutely NO problems at all. Alyssa- I'm don't know where you got that info from, but it's a big misconception. After off roading, I've left the 16"s on and driven around for a couple months. How about this...even greater, there's an ACE DII around here with these 22" rims. |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:09 pm: |
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According to LRNA, those tires/wheels are the ONLY approved combination for ACE equipped Discos. What you are physically capable of doing and what you should do are two different things. Ace changes the dynamics of handling. It is tuned to work with those tires. Change the tires, you change the dynamics.
If you roll over when you hit .4 g's after ACE has cut out, that's your problem. |
Will
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:25 pm: |
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I have talked to many people that have ACE with 16 inch wheels and have no problems at all. LR says stick to the 18s because that is the only wheel that they tested ACE with. They didnt test ACE with 16s, so they are probably just covering there butts. |
Mark (Mistert)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 11:45 pm: |
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Will- absolutely correct, it's all about liability issue. LR doesn't want people modifying their trucks, they would like people to drive them the way the cars were delivered.
What's funnier, dealers are selling ACE Discos with 16" wheels to soccer moms. they take the 18"s off and sell them b/c those are in demand. |
joel
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 12:35 am: |
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The droaning noise is mainly due to vibration of the ACE pipes against the chassis. There is a recall bulletin for this that sorts that one out. The pump is no real problem. However our two major failures have been ACE related.
Handling in the DII with ACE is really fantastic compared to the DI however I am not certain how much of this is due to ACE and how much due to the new DII.
I would not us the noise of the ACE pump as a reason not to buy a model with ACE.
www.worst4x4.freeservers.com |
Dave
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:18 am: |
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Again, not to bash Alyssa, but if you've been overseas. The EU rovers (can't remember the model) are sold with ACE and SLS, with 16" wheels.
The reason LRNA tries to tell us to stick to 18" rims is that they don't want any liability issues stemming from some jackass who thinks their ACE equipped DII is a race car. The 18" rims do provide better onroad traction and stability.
But I swapped my 18" rims a long time ago and have seen no effect with running 265/75 on road or off...
And my dealer doesn;t give me grief because I have the rig regularly serviced by them. Don't bite the hand that feeds. |
Dave
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:25 am: |
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And another thing: "If you roll over when you hit .4 g's after ACE has cut out, that's your problem."
Vehicle dynamics are changed by anything. If ACE were to "cut-out", it would be a disaster for LRNA. It's not possible for the system to simply cut-out, unless it fails, and their would be warning of this. However, even in failure, not having ACE would be like having a DII with the sway bars disconnected. If you have ever driven a DII with the sways disconnected; it is a different feel, but not something that you can't drive at speed.
I hate it when Sales guides try to pass on the LRNA corporate B.S. without knowing what they are talking about. |
KJ
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 11:21 am: |
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Curt,
All I know from my limited experience is that before I bought my 2001 I drove both ACE-equipped and non-ACE trucks, and decided against getting ACE. Going into it, and before I'd driven them both, I thought I really wanted it. I put both vehicles through the same tests (empty parking lot, pulling donuts and other hard turns) and I could see no reason I'd want the ACE. The amount of body roll difference was rather negligible, though my husband seemed to sense more difference than I did, and I'm usually the sensitive one. Also, I didn't like the low profile tires and those big wheels. I also found out the tire selection was very limited with the 18 inch rims, which did not strike me as a plus. I DID find the interior noise to be somewhat higher in the ACE vehicle, though I didn't know if that was due to the wheels or the hydralics. There was a hum neither of us liked, though I'm sure you'd get used to it with time. I also worried about reliability in the fairly new system. So, bottom line for us, the more we looked into it, drove and compared, the less reason there seemed to be for us to buy the ACE equipped vehicle. Having said that, people on this bb have reported they love their ACE trucks, and more power to 'em. Everyone should get what they want. It's your money, test drive and decide. Good luck!
Karen |
Roverine
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
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I have a 2001 Disco II - I'm personally in the non ACE category ... All of the reasons for me personally, have been stated above. I agree though, "to each his own" . I must say that I do have SLS however, and currently have it tricked out slightly with MD OME springs up front ... In due time I'm going to have to deal with the SLS issue, I'm sure. My experience test driving both ACE and non ACE: Drove the non ACE first. Loved the ride. Got into the ACE equipped vehicle, and the first thing I asked was, "What the hell is that noise?!" ... Did the tight cornering, etc., and when the sales rep started extolling the virtues of the 18" wheels, I burst out laughing. (It was genuine laughter, I wasn't trying to be demeaning.) Once again, my opinion was based solely on my own expectations and the uses I had in mind for us personally.
Kim |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 01:59 pm: |
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Dave,
ACE is *designed* to stop working once you hit .4 g's. It's not a design flaw or a malfunction, it's a programmed response. LRNA wants people to realize they are pushing the limit. WHEN you hit .4 g's and the Discovery body moves to it's natural position, if you have too much cushioning and roll (like that provided by a 16"), it may provide enough instability to roll over in the right conditions. Americans are more sue happy than other countries, and saying that it's ok to put 16"s on an ACE Discovery is a HUGE liability. If you don't drive like an idiot on your 16"s, sure, you probably won't ever have a problem. But what about the loose nut behind the wheel?
"If you have ever driven a DII with the sways disconnected; it is a different feel, but not something that you can't drive at speed."
Dave, I do have my swaybars off, so I know exactly what it feels like. I also drive around with a lot of modifications, including monster skinny mud tires. HOWEVER, I understand that my vehicle has different handling charactaristics.
"I hate it when Sales guides try to pass on the LRNA corporate B.S. without knowing what they are talking about."
Dave, DON'T EVEN GO THERE. Yes, the ACE crap is corporate B.S.. I know it is. But I sure as hell do know what I'm talking about, and I don't appreciate a comment like that. I'm not just a blonde airhead out there selling the pretty Land Rovers that have nice new cupholders. I know my stuff. |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:05 pm: |
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I gotta pitch in mi dos centavos here....
I've SEEN Alyssa in her truck out on the trail.... she's not a mall-crawler by ANY damn stretch. Hers is more modified than mine.... And it's not "fluff"... she's using it.
I wish all of the Sales Guides were as knowledgable as she is.... I wish half the enthusiasts were even half as knowledgable as she is, it'd save me a lot of typing the same answers over and over....
-L |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:11 pm: |
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Thank you, Leslie. :-) |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 02:16 pm: |
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Think nuthin' of it....
Dave assumed, but didn't know... and now he does.
-L |
Dave
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 03:36 pm: |
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Alyssa, I can appreciate your knowledge. My fault on calling you out, but you'll have to understand, your not the norm.
My attack was not aimed at your offroad prowess or ability, but more towards the "Sales Guide Stigma".
Either way, would definitely like to see some pics of your rig, if you would like to post them.
Rover on,
Dave |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 03:38 pm: |
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Look in the gallery.....
http://www.discoweb.org/alyssa/index.htm
-L |
KJ
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 04:15 pm: |
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I'd like to weigh in here, too. In the hottest portion of my quest for Rover, Alyssa answered many of my questions, and came back to me with a very fair price on a vehicle. My B.S. detector, which had been on overload dealing with some other Sales Guides, never uttered a peep. The ONLY reason I bought more locally to home was because of the service loaner issue. Had I been closer to her geographically, she'd have had my business.
Karen |
Andrew Wright (Zzsstt)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 02:36 am: |
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I have an Aussie spec 99 TD5 ES (top of the line, in case you have different model designations in the US). It came as standard with ACE, SLS, and 16 inch wheels with 255/65 tyres. 18 inch wheels are an extra cost option in Oz.
After 15 months the vehicle was fitted with +40mm OME suspension and SLS spacers with sensor mod. ACE and SLS were fine. More recently it has been fitted with 265/75's and ACE and SLS are still working perfectly. It has so far not rolled, on or off road, nor produced any particularly nasty noises - though it must be said that even in winter it rarely gets below 15-20C (sorry, don't know what that is in "F").
Which specific "versions" are imported to a country is more likely based on LR's perception of what the market wants, than anything else. It would be too expensive to import all possible variations to all markets, so they make a judgement call and only import a select few. Salesmen then try to persuade you to fit in with their wishes.
In OZ, for example, you can't get an ES with a manual gearbox, though you can in the UK. You also can't get SLS without the 7 seat option. If anyone can give me a technical reason why SLS is dependent on two extra seats, I'd be impressed... though I still wouldn't put mine back in the vehicle!
Andrew |
Emilio
| | Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 09:45 pm: |
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Wait, wait, wait,,,
The comment about the ACE system cutting out at 0.4g and returning the body to its natural position. What do you mean?
If I'm going around a corner, ACE is assisting in keeping the body straight, at 0.4g's, the hydraulics cease that operation and allows the body to roll?
I thought rover desgined it such that there is always roll in the body although they could have designed the DII with no body roll (with ACE).
If it is the first case, then that's a bummer since the system ceases to help when it's needed the most and it is obviously a court case waiting to happen...
Emilio
BTW: To the original question, I don't hear my ACE and I like the road feel. I used to own a 95 DI, and the wife didn't want the pitching anymore. Like many others, I'm getting the 16's for offroading and yes, I realize I'm driving an SUV and not a ferrari... |
Zinhead
| | Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 10:36 pm: |
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Emilio wrote: "The comment about the ACE system cutting out at 0.4g and returning the body to its natural position. What do you mean? If I'm going around a corner, ACE is assisting in keeping the body straight, at 0.4g's, the hydraulics cease that operation and allows the body to roll? "
Below .4g, ACE stiffens the swaybars to keep the body from leaning. At more than .4g, ACE gradually allows the truck to lean so you realize just how much you are puching it. ACE never purposely stops working, it is programmed to allow roll at higher g levels. The higher the g level, the higher the roll. BTW, BMW is using a similar system in the new 7 series. |
Alyssa
| | Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2002 - 10:42 pm: |
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Emilio, yes, at .4 g's, the hydraulics allow the body to lean, letting the driver know that they are pushing the limits of the corner. It puts you in the exact same situation you would be in if you were in a non-ACE equipped discovery, therefore, NOT a suit waiting to happen. All of this is described in your owners manual. |
SKI MAN
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 05:42 pm: |
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ACE REALLY HELPS AT HIGHER SPEEDS/FREEWAY ETC. THAT ANNOYING HIGHWAY ROLE IS WELL TAMED BY THE ACE SYSTEM...NOT TO MENTION SAFETY. THE NOISE YOU CAN ONLY HEAR AT LOW SPEEDS (^20PMH) THE 18 INCH RUBBER DOES HELP...I JUST PUT NEW PIRELLI SCORPION ST'S ON HER IN UTAH ANDN THEY WORK GREAT IN THE SNOW AND PLAN TO TAKE THEM TO MOAB NEXT MONTH. REMEMBER THERE ARE A LOT OF DISCO WEBBERS THAT CANNOT AFFORD A DII AND HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BASH IT.
BY THE WAY. THE 2003 RANGE ROVER SUCKS! |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 07:28 pm: |
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REMEMBER THERE ARE A LOT OF DISCO WEBBERS THAT CANNOT AFFORD A DII AND HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BASH IT.
uhhhhh....OK dude, I'll keep that in mind......whatever. |
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