Kyle + Steel + RE12000 = Styl'in, B...

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Author Message   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:19 pm:    Not the time to write a review, we are only 3/4 of the way there (hehehe ... waddaya mean 'we' white man?), nor can I yet to extol its virtues (it has only scared other vehicles in the parking lots at NIH and NIDA). But I thought I would offer the folks here this tip: After reviewing the 93 pictures which carefully document Kyle's creation of beauty, after carefully examining the visual record from stock bumper to the next evolutionary leap, even after reviewing the MPEG files (wherein Kyle discusses international relations with Mexicans).... **MY** new bumper for the DSII, that is, the only one that holds an RE12000, is f****** beyond amazing THUS: I would urge anyone that is even contemplating getting one, buying one, begging for one, groveling for one, etc., to score a used Land Rover Brush Bar ASAP. You better write now and get a place in line -- this thing is sweet. I am lucky. The man took care of me. Folks, You have to see this thing to appreciate the genuis driving the bubbling meld of beauty, form, and function!!! And we (err....... he) are (is) only 3/4 of the way there! Well, I guess it is a "we" -- I kept the fire going and swept the floor alot. .... now if I can only find those little straw sombreros to hang off my gorgous front recovery points.... Michael Super 8 Hotel, Indian Head, Maryland No heat No food Cold coffee But with the baddest vehicle in the parking lot!   Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:20 pm:    I wish to remind everyone else in the waiting list that in fact I was the FIRST one to jump (cut?) in so come on Kyle when do you want me to come down? he he he   jim Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:53 pm:    Kyle when you feel the need to make another count me in. For a D1 that is.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:06 pm:    The ones I have now are very spoken for. I will be getting ten more in short order.... Kyle   cartner Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:31 pm:    how much $$$?   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:38 pm:    Ahh the magic question,,,,, Lets take a poll. Whats a good front bumper with winch mount of choice worth ?? Kyle   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:42 pm:    Ten more???? Damn. I want them all. hehehe! Make them all pay, all of them, all the ones that snickered at me in high school, and on the trail. Yes, precious, we will keep all them shiny bumpers and make them all pay.....   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:29 pm:    pictures?/   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:05 am:    'bout $200-$300 covers the cost of the steel, right? that should do it   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:34 am:    Now ad powder coating Tom.... And here are some pics of second generation protoypes www,expeditionexchange.com/protorb Kyle   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:33 am:    Kyle, I tried email you off list, but your server coughed. Try me at [email protected] and [email protected] at the same time. I hate to have to request it to both addresses, but this is urgent. I am curious about $ for a blade only. Thx, Curtis   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 08:09 am:    Kyle, you want my front brush gaurd when I pull it off? I'll sell it to you for cheep (read real cheep).. Let me know..   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 08:44 am:    Yeah Eric.... Just let me know when.. Kyle   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:08 am:    indeed a beautiful thang... so who is selling those? EE? or you kyle? Simon   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:16 am:    micheal... do me a favor and make sure kyle has traced or measured that bumper before it leaves maryland! looking good! how about that Roof Rack? got any more pictures? rd   Collin Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:21 am:    Kyle, I tried to send you an email but it bounced. Email me for information on a used brush guard. Collin [email protected]   Greg Davis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:23 am:    Kyle, that looks great. Glad to see you're finally turning them out. That thing won't rotate, will it? hehehe. Hopefully I'll have mine finished this weekend. Just curious, will the DSII washer bottle have to be moved? If so, I have a good way to move it if you need any ideas. Ends up looking very factory.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:27 am:    Yea that washer bottle has gotta be moved up to where the Jack is at right now. Others have done it already and I belive $G sells a "Kit" to relocate it.... Kyle   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:43 am:    Yeah, I have a ton of pictures detailing just about every step of the way. You look at them in order and you can just see the damn thing grow sparks and all. Dunno why Kyle posted that link above -- he has his reasons I suppose. My bumper looks far, far better than the one in those pictures. Really, it is true. And Curtis, the gaurd is more important than you may be thinking -- it is clearly not just for looks. MV   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:51 am:    You busting on my old Prototypes MV ??? Those poor bumpers suffered much . ... Kyle   Robbie Donaldson (Robbie) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 11:15 am:    Hey Kyle, I emailed you at both your dweb address and your hotmail. The dweb got bounced back though. Hopefully the hotmail went through. Thanks. Robbie   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 11:43 am:    hey don't you bust the prototype!!! it's got some history... and the worst is that it ended up with a Mexican! LOL Simon   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:00 pm:    LOL. pricing? email me in a while, my name is Kyle. Just bustin' your chops Kyle. Real question: Will the only guard available be the LR one welded on, or is there something else in the works? Tom   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:09 pm:    I asked a legitimate question on pricing and only you answered. Isnt that strange ? Kyle   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:14 pm:    Kyle, "Whats a good front bumper with winch mount of choice worth ??" steel sheeting: $150 laser cutting the sheet steel: $200 welding services: $90 per hour Ramsey RE12000: $900 getting a strong winch bumper with an original design that isn't copied from someone else's design and that doesn't look stupidly aggressive and also takes a real winch: priceless   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:16 pm:    Kyle, You may have asked a legitimate question, but it is one that only you have the answer to. If you ask everyone what they think the price should be you will probably get answers from $250 to $500. Most would also know that is unreasonable. You know the costs and what margins you would like to make on it so only you know what the price will be. So what is the damn price Curtis   Michel Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:20 pm:    From what I see, I expect the pricing to be about $750, but would pay $950 if I had to. I've been waiting 4 years for a winch bumper that dosen't make me puke, and is functional and strong. Michel   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:22 pm:    Michel, I agree on what you say. This bumper is the shit. I want to hear something from the Man himself. Curtis   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:22 pm:    700 clarification: for blade with winch mount and nuts & bolts (no brush bar addition, no winch, no skid, no finish needed either)   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:55 pm:    Well I am just trying to feel out the publics opinion. I have done my fair share of price bashing and I wanna hear what everyone has to say... Kyle   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:16 pm:    hehehe if you use the logic of ($x for steel + $y for welding + $z for powdercoating) = only a couple hundred bucks, then why isn't everyone making their own shit every damn day? I know someone has to pay me real money to get me off my ass, so I expect to pay someone else real money to get them off their asses. Sure don't expect to pay them $1200 to get off their ass & make me a bumper though   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:18 pm:    I agree that a grand is too damn high , I have said it many times..... Kyle   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:20 pm:    so then, it's settled...$999.95 + tax + shipping & handling + airport security fee   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:25 pm:    A free bumper when you buy 70 packs of D Web stickers and two video tapes..   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:26 pm:    I don't think a grand is too high at all. It's cheaper than the other bumpers out there from similar small shops. And yours is nicer too. If you sell at the same price, I think it's a better value overall than those other bumpers.   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:53 pm:    Well, I just got back from the tire shop run by Billy Joe Bob and all his cousins where they installed four 245 Michelins -- and what can I say 'cept the damn bumper looks even better when the tire size is bigger. Makes no sense to me, but you can see it in the lines. Even the cousins at the shop remarked how bad the truck looked with the Michelins, the OME lift, and the bumper. When I told them a local boy down the street made the bumper, the lead cousin said "No shit!" Personally, I say screw the powdercoating -- after several days of this blasted leaky sky, I have the nicest brown patina going on the bumper. I kid you not: All them little arc weldy bumps are just looking brutal in their rusting efficiency. Heather said the bumper has that Mad Max look -- with its wickedly efficient lines and sloping steel all streaked with rust, I can see what she was talking about. And I cannot find a single bumper sticker in this town that says "Viva Mexico" in bright red, white, and green, or a single "Viva La Raza." Rats! I still say you better find a brush gaurd and get your monies down -- because this bumper is the real deal. You see this pup on the trail and you will instantly comprende what kind of approach angle this vehicle is truly capable of. I mean it. You see this and you will have the visual "Aha!" experience.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:56 pm:    A grand may be a going out of business strategy. Even $G is about a grand, and others are cheaper.   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:57 pm:    Michael, are you sure that isn't "Ay Chiuahua!"   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:58 pm:    Come over to my neighborhood in Falls Church Va, and you will see some stickers that will remind you of home..   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 02:59 pm:    kyle, that bumper must be the same price as the beauty it holds... 900 for a RE12K 900 for a real bumper. how is that? still under a grand.... Simon   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:06 pm:    "A grand may be a going out of business strategy. Even $G is about a grand, and others are cheaper." Yeah, the SG front bumper is carefully priced at $950 to make it appear cheaper than it actually is. But everything on the SG bumper is a la carte. The D-rings are sold separately and are a whopping $125 each. Add $250 and you're at $1200 now. I don't want to speak for Kyle, but I would think his bumper would include proper recovery points in the price.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:11 pm:    Yeah , all that shit is there...... I hate that nickel and dime shit.... They advertise a base model with nothing on it and really and truely no one every buys that model... Its just to make things look good.... Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:16 pm:    ah, that sounds better, then. tom   KJ Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:24 pm:    We really are talking a bumper for the DII, not the DI? Well Kyle, the price on that sounds like a few months riding lessons for Heather to me..... Karen   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:31 pm:    kyle, you should start taking deposits. that's how things are done. you know that right? LOL   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:35 pm:    Hmmm , you mean taking a Justin ? Naaa , I dont agree with that method.... That means you are making them as needed and not just making them to stock.... Kyle   Murray (Cdnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:55 pm:    Kyle, Looks beefy as hell - very nice but why would you use the existing factory bull bar? I don't know about yours but I could bend mine with my hands and it was the first thing to go on mine when I started going offroad. It was more of a pain in the ass because it would bend into my hood - luckily I caught it before it actually bent the hood, just left a little paint. Nice to see another good option out there ... not trying to nit pick ... I hate it when people have nothing to do but put other people's shit down. Are you going to sell it through EE? Murray   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:57 pm:    where are some pictures of this bumper   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 04:02 pm:    Well the brush bar is just that a BRUSH bar. when you use it with that bumper the whole thing look correct on the truck. it doesnt look like some pieced together puzzle it actually looks like it belongs there. if you wanna push things with the BRUSH bar then its not for you and there are other bar options available... The stock brush bar also is much stronger when its welded on a stationary object. I have run nothing but the stock bars and never had an issue with them.. Kyle   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 04:15 pm:    kyle maybe you don't speak mexican.. where the fuck are you going to sell them? EE or directly... god damn rednecks.... lol Simon   yle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 04:22 pm:    Its looking like both right now. If you are East cost you can get them directly from me. If you arent. Well , call John and Ho... We still need to work out some details.... Kyle   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 04:22 pm:    Kyle, That being said - it appeared to me that Mike was saying there was something functional about the brush bar. Is this not true? If ney - I would rather go barless. It just looks better IMHO. Curtis ...waiting to send in his deposit   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 04:28 pm:    BTW - I think $750-$850 is the magic price point if you want to sell a lot of these. Notice I said "sell a lot". If you only want to sell a few then sell it for a lot. Either way - people will tend to pay what they feel it is worth. It is just a matter of how many you want to make. I think at $750 you would OWN the Disco market. Curtis   Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 04:58 pm:    What curtis said in the last post + Why compare the price to ARB, &G or other bumpers? Why not look at the cost of the materials and labor, factor in the amount that you need to make to feel good about it and there is your price. If it turns out to be less expensive than the others you will be successful and the consumer will feel they are getting a good deal. If it is more expensive than the others on the market then maybe you need to look at it and see if it really makes sense to offer the bumper to the public. Does it offer features that make it worth more? And will consumers be willing to pay for the added features? I personally think that &G and some of the other high priced vendors get a lot of negative press and small issues are blown out of proportion since the consumer does not feel they are getting a good value for their money. I am glad to see that a fellow Land rover enthusiast is building a quality product that is functional and well designed for its intended use. But please remember how it feels to be bent over without the good lube just because you have a rover. I am neither in marketing or accounting, not to mention that I have not made a bumper for a DII. I am simply vocalizing what I, as a consumer would like to see in the market place for the DII. FWIW   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 05:24 pm:    My Rant... Look, just because Justin did the shit he did (like takimg deposits and claiming sliders were powdercoated when actually painted), does not mean the practice of taking a deposit is not right. Justin was selling CDL Rover Vapor Ware -- that shit existed in his head only. These bumpers are real. There is no comparison. Who is in line? Buddies? DW people? Aliens with green cards? Money talks, bullshit walks. If I want a bumper, it is reasonable to me to put a 50% deposit down and the rest on delivery. What the hell? You gonna float a loan for every rover fan out there who says "I want one"? You gonna purchase materials out of your pocket expenses, then hope people keep their word and pay for what they ordered? You'll be fucked-up real quick you do that shit. First, you will quickly learn you cannot float that kind of cash when the first 2 morons back-out, or seriously lag on final payment. Secondly, you'll alienate the real customers who want the stuff now and can pay for it but have to wait while you dick around with the first two morons. Horseshit. Take a damn deposit and just be professional about it: Deliver on time according to specs. And no refunds. For God's sake, don't let one person affect sound business behavior. Finally, all you folks that want an RE12000 -- if you are willing to walk on the darkside, you can get one (with patience) for 539.00. I know, cause I did. Go to Ramsey's site -- hell, maybe try other winch sites too, anyways, look for the link where you can buy direct from Ramsey. You will find another link that that will show you their current remanufactured items. These winches only have a 30 day warranty -- but they are generally new returns from overstock. In some cases, they have had new motors placed in them. big deal. Don't get prissy with that much money on the line. So it is price / warranty tradeoff. So what is it worth? I got mine for 539.00 -- and they included the damn roller fairlead. This rain must be making me cranky. Michael   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 05:31 pm:    Curtis: That brush bar is very functional. If you could see pictures of the unit and see how it gives sound structural support off all three axis (x, y, and z), but particularly the lateral plane (y and z) you would want that pup on there. MV   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:02 pm:    Mike, I agree with you on your point, but there is another valid point on this whole thing. First off - a business owner can do whatever the hell he/she wants. It is strictly the customers decision whether to do business on those terms. Secondly, the Justin case proved something I have thought for a long time: If a business dealing in products is taking deposits then they damn well better have a merchant account and take credit cards. A true merchant account is a pain in the ass to get and proves that you have good credit to begin with (for the most part) and that you probably run your business well. It also allows the customer to leave a CC deposit which is infinitely easier to reclaim if the vendors business does not deliver. Again though - Kyle can do what he wants here. This is his baby. The question that needs to be answered is on which terms he wants to do business. The great thing for him is that he can answer that wherever he wants to...while I suffer Curtis   Murray (Cdnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:06 pm:    I must have gotten a lousy factory bull bar because I can't see how it would provide much structural support. I agree with Kyle, it's a brush bar, not a bull bar and it will be a hell of alot stronger welded on instead of being bent and held with 2 bolts. I also think mine was bending because of the front bar that hung out in front of the bar which would hit the incline first. My 2 cents ... doesn't change my opinion, nice bumper. Murray   Pete Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:10 pm:    I can see a line of people in front of Kyle's house holding an LRNA brush guard. How funny would that be? Pete "amazed at the lectures on how to run a business"   Murray (Cdnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:11 pm:    lousy factory bull bar -> I meant brush bar ... Murray   p m Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:32 pm:    ok Kyle, when's the 9" coming out? peter   Michael Noe (Noee) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:36 pm:    So...I'm on the east coast, and.....er......uh....well, I have a factory brush bar. Exactly where do I need to show up now?   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:46 pm:    For price, how about $949.95 for the blade only? Same price as SG bumper, but much nicer. That is the a la carte price, just like the other vendors price their bumpers. The "extras" will cost you: $0.01 for each front recovery point (two recommended); $0.01 for black powdercoated finish; $0.01 for guard portion of the bumper; and $0.01 for light two light tabs for mounting two Hella 4000 (sorry, Lightforce lights won't fit and three Hella 4000's up front looks lame). So the total for the complete bumper would be $950 even. That includes everything you need and nothing you don't. All of that for the same price as the (incomplete) SG bumper, and the SG bumper that takes the Husky costs even more than that.   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:50 pm:    Well, Curtis, you know I do not know much about business, nor about off-roading, so I damn well better keep my mouth shut on both parts. and I like your points. Truthfully... it is this bumper, the lift, and the tires: Combined, they just make you feel like you can give an opinion on anything. MV   Murray (Cdnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 06:53 pm:    the "lousy factory bull bar -> I meant brush bar ..." was referring to a typo in my previous post ... keep the hardware concealed I'm not busting Kyle's balls ... like I said, nice bumper and what Kyle was saying was to quit using my factor brush bar as a D7 Cat. Murray   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 07:23 pm:    John, I think that is priced a little high, but that is just my opinion. I really think that most LR aftermarket manufacturers are missing the boat by pricing thier stuff out of the range of the consumer. When I hear $9xx I think $1000. Then I think of all of the other stuff I gotta buy. When I hear $750 I think: "Hey - I wanted to spend $500, but $750 is not that much more". I am not speaking from a business perspective, but a strictly personal one. I bet I am not alone though. .02 Curtis   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 07:29 pm:    I still don't get it. You have to supply your own brush guard or you get one with it? Tom   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 07:42 pm:    I hear you Curtis but we have a strange thing going on here. All the of players are interested in not "Fair" (Who the hell knows what fair is anyway) pricing ,but instead realistic pricing. Pricing is relative to the perrson who has to deal with the product to get it to you. Now me , I am just happy as hell out in the shop welding in complete silence with no outside intrusion from anyone. When I have to start dealing too much with the public I get in a bad mood. So to pay me to do that would cost you alot. Others however are more people friendly and dont mind doing that at all and shipping where ever and dealing with the guy in the funny brown shorts driving the funny brown truck. I am trying to work it out here so that every one makes out in the end and everyone ends up with a realistic price for what they got. Thats not reall easy to do when we are seeperated by a continent. EE and I want to work together to provide everyone with what they want with the kind of pricing that leaves you very happy with what you got but we have a ways to go in making that happen as you can imagine. For now just contact me and I will answer your questions as best I can. As for deposits and such. Well , I plan on making them either way. So if someone backs out on a purchase its no real biggie. Somone else will want it. I dont agree with the whole deposit thing and wont implement it on my end. Kyle   JMcD Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 08:03 pm:    Nice unit Kyle, I love the use of the stock brush bar.. I like that look. Very nice....JMcD   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:00 pm:    The stock bar fits a certain taste and it looks the most correct on the truck. I can do pretty much what ever the hell ya want accept ugly. Ugly I just wont do...... Kyle   Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:14 pm:    The brush bar is also useful when you're about to roll, and three big guys suddenly decide to jump on and stop that from happening You think they're gonna do that if there's no handle?   Roverine Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:52 pm:    This looks and sounds real good Glad I ran out of $$$, and still have my origional bumper & brushbar - incidently, the brushbar hasn't rotated the last 4 times I've had it offroad - LOL, Greg screwed around with the bolts -Additionally, I've been in fairly forgiving terrain (DOH! I just put a curse on myself). Anyway, this looks real nice - Glad things are coming to fruition. Kim P.S. IMHO, FWIW, I agree Kyle, dealing with the public is (IMO) 75% of the hardest part of the business ... Can become a royal PITA, so that has to be priced in, for whatever you can tolerate. Here's how I see it: No matter what, the decision to purchase anything is an EMOTIONAL decision (especially more expensive items for something which one is very passionate about, no less). The factors that go into that emotional decision (call it comfort level, whatever) are different for each individual. Some expectations are reasonable, some are not. Some reactions are reasonable, some are not. How people behave will vary, that's for sure!   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 11:20 pm:    Friday afternoon-- if all goes according to plan, we'll be out in the muck testing the winch and bumper. Plus, I am dying to try the KVT's approach angle. Kyle thoughtfully offered to take me out and teach me how to use this stuff, instead of packing me down the road upon completion. The man's generosity with his talents, his labor, his home, his food, as well as his deep concern for my well-being is simply exceptional. Dunno what to say except to publically offer unabashed thanks. Michael   KJ Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 11:52 pm:    I admire and respect Kyle's decision to not take deposits if that's the way he feels most comfortable. Having said that, I wouldn't hesitate to send him a deposit if he decided to go that route. I can't say I feel that confident in many folks. Karen   Curtis Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 12:57 am:    Kyle, You make a very valid point. When a hobby becomes a business things change quickly. I enjoy the hell out of what I do, but I give that part out for free. I get paid for doing all the stuff that enables me to do the enjoyable part. I am sure that you guys will work something out. Curtis   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 09:55 am:    you can send me the deposits, i'll make sure kyle get's 'em... scouts honor -rd   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:53 am:    "The man's generosity with his talents, his labor, his home, his food, as well as his deep concern for my well-being is simply exceptional. Dunno what to say except to publically offer unabashed thanks." I think Michael is going to start a church of Kyle. He is forming a coumpound right now in the middle of Moab. Cost of entry is 2 brush guards. One for your bumper, and one for a makeshift fence. Come all yee faithful followers... Tom   Moe (Moe) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:55 am:    Oh the Hype! MV when are we going to see pics of the latest version? Damn, people wanting to send deposits without knowing what they are getting, that is impressive. Maybe Kyle should be in a different business. I hear there is an opening for a Jamaican clairvoyant in Florida Price=what ever the Market will bear. Do we get a skid plate? Are there running lights in the latest version?   Kyle Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:59 am:    Hey Tom , what did you pay for your Aedofab prototypes ? Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:15 am:    Prototypes? I bought bumpers. $550 for the front, $850 for the rear, including a skid. That is no secret. Tom   Kyle Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:18 am:    Well I consider my first runs on a vehicle Prototypes.. And the guys that have them got them virtually free.... How excited would you have been if they had done it for you for free ? Anyone else handing out free prototypes ? Kyle   Murray (Cdnrvr) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:19 am:    Kyle, I would be checking into restraining orders buddy Murray   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:19 am:    What? are you saying Miss Cleo aint here no mo? damn Simon she predicted I was going to have my bumper in september and I did...   Kyle Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:27 am:    I thin Simon has a pic of his down there in FLA , he should post that..... He did Mexican it up a little but you get the idea... Kyle   Moe (Moe) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:32 am:    "she predicted I was going to have my bumper in september and I did..." But I think Kyle predicted that too. Did you send him a small fee too?   KJ Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:35 am:    Church of Kyle......hmmmmmmm.....no taxes that way.....sweet idea! Karen ....coming soon....Church of Karen.....somebody say AMEN!   Murray (Cdnrvr) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:45 am:    LOL ... lemmings ... or groupies. I am imbarassed for you Murray   John Lee Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:54 am:    "You make a very valid point. When a hobby becomes a business things change quickly. I enjoy the hell out of what I do, but I give that part out for free. I get paid for doing all the stuff that enables me to do the enjoyable part." Agreed. I think Kyle should price his bumpers so that it is worth his time and energy to make the bumpers. My guess is that if he charges $650 per bumper, his enthusiasm will quickly wane as the headaches associated with dealing with customers and other business matters build, and the bumper production will eventually stop or at least public sale of the bumpers will eventually stop and Kyle will make the bumpers only for friends. At least that's what Miss Cleo and Dionne Warwick told me.   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 12:05 pm:    I DID WHAT? LOL... you know damn right why I did what I did... it was (still is) the Prototype so no powder coating action anywhere.. actually it has been POR15ed completely! how much is a powder coat worth? i might do that ..... the pic is in my gallery   jmon Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 01:10 pm:    looks like a very functional bumper...so do you include your lrna brush bar for the build..or does the 9hundred plus include it....   Kyle Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 01:33 pm:    lol , 900 plus eh ? I didnt say I was going to price the thing according to what got posted here. I just said I was intersted in public opinion of the whole thing... In the end which ever bar ya want will be included.. Kyle   Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 01:47 pm:    Kyle - however, you price/build it - just don't do 'UGLY'! LOL   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 03:12 pm:    Moe -- I have a lot of pictures. But I offered / agreed to not post any for a little while longer. So I have a set, and I turned a copy over to Ho. But the pictures of Simon's bumper here is relatively along the same theme as to what I have. Church of Kyle?? Lemmings?? Groupies??? Compound in Moab?? Maybe I missed my calling -- an Acolyte? No. I do not compliment without cause. But I can get excitedly appreciative -- just don't take that as dogma.   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 04:52 pm:    ahh shit now I get it why I did mexicanized the bumper... sorry Kyle I did not have enough mulah to get those nice hellas.... LOL... fucker.. Simon   Moe (Moe) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 06:31 pm:    "I have a lot of pictures. But I offered / agreed to not post any for a little while longer" Damn, all talk and no show? We'll have to wait till the hype subsides, and maybe by that time my ARB would have rusted apart   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 06:44 pm:    well well, just because you asked moe... hope this helps.   Moe (Moe) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 06:47 pm:    That clears it up. I would easily pay $950 for that beauty   John Lee Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 07:22 pm:    Ho, That pic elucidates the inquiry nicely. I think the price just went up to $1150.   JMcD Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 08:17 pm:    That shits just plain funny Ho, Just plain funny!....JMcD   Mel A. Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 09:28 pm:    Nice bumper, but what's the deal with those flares. Are they aftermarket or am I just imaginging stuff. It must be all that damn SAT preperation stuff for next week. I have to study, but the D-web is time better spent. Oh well...back to studying.   Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:08 pm:    "the bumper production will eventually stop or at least public sale of the bumpers will eventually stop " -John Lee Would that make 'em "collectibles" then? That would drive the price up drastically. Kinda like the Defenders. I can just see it on Ebay... Used KVT design bumper. A little "banged" up. limited production.   Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:10 pm:    oopss... let's try this again...   Glenn Guinto (Glenn) Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:15 pm:    man... okay... one more time...   Ron Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:43 pm:    Kyle, Here is what you do. You ship them one day a quarter. Get everyone you can make during the quarter done and then send them out that one day. No need for different versions. If someone wants something other than the REally slow 12000 let them buy from someone else. Only have to deal with the public 4 days a year. No one will give you shit for it either. 500 unfinished would be fair 650 powdercoated no brushbar. No sense in spending good money on powder coat when it is going to get messed up anyway. I would galvanized it but until I make the SG look like the rear fender I am not in the market. Ron PS how you welding it? MIG, ARC? Huge TIG   KJ Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:05 pm:    ROTFLOL! I have the feeling Ho was a bad-ass as a kid.....and then he never grew up. Glenn, your ebay aucion is better than most of the real deals, LOL! Karen   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 12:59 am:    Dammit!! That is my picture I took in front of the motel with my new Sony DSC-P5. You're blowing my cover Ho! Cool tires, No? Well, tonight I used the big ol' memory stick in the Sony and took a load of movies with Kyle using this horrifying contraption that makes a light so intensely bright it'll fry your eyes if you look it. But, no, this guy just squints real hard when he is "just tacking" with it. Damn sparks flying all over him and him giving an occasional yelp when a particularly nasty slag burns through his clothes. Then he has the gall to ask me "Why you moving away?". Some people get their kicks in wierd ways. I wonder: anyone know if that type of light will fry a digital camera's eyes? Tomorrow is the big push. We should be done by miday. Then it is off to the swollen creeks to play!   Curtis Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 01:25 am:    "I wonder: anyone know if that type of light will fry a digital camera's eyes?" It is not good for it. I will refrain from the details, but you may want to read the probable warnings in the instructions about extra bright lights. It can indeed fry the CCD. Curtis