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ken
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:28 pm: | 
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I was wondering I am a big fan of solid axels and it seems most people on this board are. With all the talk of Rover going to a independant suspension is it really that big of a deal. To hear people on this board it is. But my question is
1. Is it really that bad
2. Wont't you get more ground clearance
3. Isn't it what the Hummer uses and if so is that good or bad.
Thanks just looking for info
ken |
M. K. Watson (Lrover94)
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:43 pm: |
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yes
no
who cares if its a hummer!
mike |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:51 pm: |
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Nice and succint Mike!
lets see
1. Yes, unless its road-going only
2. No, less
3. Yes its what the Hummer uses, and it why a Hummer is so poor away from smooth desert terrain.
Have you ever seen a Hummer Flex?
http://www.blackhummer.com/grafx/hummer/paulwilson.jpg
If you think that is good for offroading, then you'll love independent suspension.
-P |
tommy
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:52 pm: |
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Independent suspension is good in a Honda Civic
not a Land Rover!
tommy |
JMcD
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:56 pm: |
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The (original) hummer had an independant suspension Yes, but it was so different from what current IFS is it doesn't really compare.
On the Hummer, the axle shaft came into the wheel assembly very high, and was reduced by another set of gears(the name which escapes me right now, torkelson?something like that) which enabled the Independant suspension, front and rear, to have much higher ground clearance and better articulation than anything currently available.
So yes, IFS can work well off road, but not what Land Rover has in store. IMHO JMcD |
JMcD
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:58 pm: |
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Damn.... Can anyone remember the name of that gear used by the original hummer to drop the axle shaft to the wheel?? Anyone????
Bueller? Bueller? |
Craig M. Highland (Shortbus)
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:01 pm: |
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It's called a portal axle, JMcD
also, not all IFS's are created equal:
Craig |
Roverine
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:09 pm: |
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(sigh) that pic - reminds me of one of my fantasies: I wish I could have a crew of mechanics follow me around in a truck & trailer full of spare parts, wherever I go, LOL ...
Kim  |
Craig M. Highland (Shortbus)
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:17 pm: |
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Here you go Kim:
Craig |
ken
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:21 pm: |
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with IFS I guess it would be only the weight of the truck on the lower wheel where as in solid axel the high you stuff your tire the better traction you would get on the other wheel is that correct. |
Craig M. Highland (Shortbus)
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 09:32 pm: |
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Sorry, too big
Here you go Kim-
Craig |
Roverine
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 01:54 am: |
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hehehehehehe,,,, WEll, that might do it ... if only they could keep up with me every step of the way, wherever I go (I know, "WHIMP!!") ....
Also, I would love to have an ambulance and security force as well .... I swear, if I only could ... (then I would cross the border into Baja again) heh heh heh ... LOL
Kim |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:14 am: |
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IFS ain't all that bad. it's just what you make out of it.
like craig showed, i am pretty sure you can achieve same results with the IFS land rovers. LOL |
p m
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 12:34 pm: |
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right, Ho.... once or twice
peter |
BJ Turner (Wturner)
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 05:34 pm: |
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>>"have you ever seen a Hummer flex?"
Well apperently nobody has!
BTW, what stiffness is that hummer equivilant to? Seems like at least a 1 ton truck, maybe more. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 08:29 pm: |
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It's rated conservatively at one ton... There are many reports of troops pling in almost 2 tons. I've crawled under the thing to have a look at the suspension setup, and those are some big friggin springs. Similar to the Unimog.
-P |
Mike B.
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:16 pm: |
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The front suspension on a Hummer is weak. The half shafts break quite easily. It's not unusual to go through several half-shafts in a single weekend of pushing them hard (i.e. Hummer Challenge). If you get air and come down with the pedal down, you will snap a half-shaft. I've seen it happen and it ain't pretty. Unfortunately, there is no upgrade that I am aware of (or at least there wasn't), so the Hummer folks just sort of live with it.
Thanks,
Mike B. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 09:55 pm: |
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Mike,
I don't know that I would consider axles part of the suspension, but you are right that they are quite weak. There are at least two companies that I know of who make uprated axles for hummer.
-P |
charles p.
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 10:23 pm: |
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Mike,
you are right. That's my experience in army (ROC army) with Hummer. Their front suspension is weak. Also, Hummer's flex is kinda poor...
What do you think that Land Rover's independent suspension would have more flex and smarter mechanics? I means, we all believe LR is not American-engineered 4x4!?
Charles |
BJ Turner (Wturner)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:56 am: |
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Flex is not so hot!
BTW, someone asked if they kept air suspension...
"Supported by an interlinked, four-wheel Electronic Air Suspension system." |
BJ Turner (Wturner)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:58 am: |
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BJ Turner (Wturner)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:59 am: |
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BJ Turner (Wturner)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:59 am: |
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BobW
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
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Regarding the new Range Rover, this month's LRO (Land Rover Owner International), March '02, had a test drive of the New Rangie at Land Rover's off road track. They went in skeptical at first, fearing too many compromises, but came away with praise after testing it. One of the testers, Vince Cobley (LRO's off-road expert, owner of Pro-Trax off-road school in England) made an interesting statement after the car went through a thick mud pit: "I didn't think I'd see the day when a Range Rover on standard road tyres could get through where a Defender on mud tyres would fail. I'm amazed."
Of course, given the picture by BJTurner, it can't do everything, but I'm supprised it turned out to be this good. It will be interesting to see how far they can go with this new suspension set-up. Maybe Land Rover can pull it off where others have failed?
We'll see...
BobW |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 02:50 pm: |
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A Defender on mud tires is still a truck with open diffs. Who in their right mind would look at a comparison between a truck with the equivalent of electic, computer controlled lockers, and one with open diffs, and think it was fair...
-P |
BobW
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 04:45 pm: |
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Perrone,
I don't know, but is seems that given how good an open diff Defender is, it still is a good compliment to compare the ability of the New Range Rover. If you put the locking diffs on the mud-tired Defender and both make it across the mud pit, it still is a compliment to the ability of the new Range Rover. Regardless of how it did it, it still did it! Besides, unless the reputation of Vince Cobley is incorrect, I wouldn't think such a statement would have been made lightly.
BobW |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 05:06 pm: |
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. ETC works GREAT when it's working. That doesn't mean I like how it does what it does.
There is something fundamentally wrong with applying brakes to get traction. It just leaves me somewhat cold to have a computer controlling my traction. I much prefer the simple mechanics of a locker.
To each his own though. If LR want's to add a $3000 gizmo to do the work of a $300 locker and people want to pay for it, more power to them.
-P |
Mel A.
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 05:19 pm: |
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The new Rangie offers ~11 inches of front vertical drop while the rear is close to 14 inches. I have confidence that Land Rover knows what they are doing with the IFS/IRS suspension movement. It'll be a bitch to lift the thing though. |
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