Detroit in the snow

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Author Message   PerroneFord Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 01:18 am:    Guys, I know some of you who have the Detroit locker live in the rust belt, or the mountains. How bad are they if you are gentle on the throttle? What trips them up, and when are they likely to cause the most problems? Thanks   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 07:50 am:    Perrone, I'm in NJ and have had a Detroit for a couple of years now. When I do run into any of those snow problems I keep hearing about, I will let you know what they are.   PerroneFord Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 09:50 am:    Hmmm, Must be akin to my driving it yesterday waiting to hear the clicks, bangs, and such that I've heard so much about. I need to get my hearing checked because I didn't hear squat from that locker. I'm pleased as punch right now. Thanks for your $.02. -P   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:12 am:    i dont liike the detroit in snow. it is not as easy as a bone stock disco as far as a predictable drive and control, in my opinion. the reliablitliy and over all performance still make it a fine choice in places that get snow only a few times in the winter, like pittsburgh and new your city. if i lived in northern new england , colorado or someplace where it was snow all winter, i couldn't do i detriot. rd   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:17 am:    Perrone: That's good, mine is pretty quiet too. I get some ratcheting noise on tight turns, but it's not that loud. It don't bother me at all. I suppose you don't get much snow down there in Florida, but I would give you this warning just in case: If anyone ever accidentally dumps some ice from their cooler anywhere near your truck, do NOT drive over it. With the Detroit, the ice will cause your truck to spin out of control, flip over, and you will die.   JMcD Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:19 am:    The detroit in my chevy is real tricky in the snow, tends to crab on any side grade. I use the truck to plow and dont like the way it feels. Put on the tire chains and thats a whole different story!! Truck (388ci)pushes like a dozer. If you didn't plow or wheel alot I would opt for a selectable locker if you run in the snow often. My .02 cents. JMcD   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:21 am:    is your chevy full time 4wd? there's a big difference.   PerroneFord Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:27 am:    Avoid ice from cooler.. got it! Axel, are you running a trutrac up front or open? -P   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:31 am:    I read somewhere on the net that if you drove in snow using a Detroit or a TruTrac that the ice will cause your truck to spin out of control, flip over, and you will die -- thus voiding your warranty. Plus, a dealer told me that if you die because you voided your warranty, your life insurance policy is also automatically voided. Dunno if this is true or not but I thought I would pass this information on. Michael   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:38 am:    ARB   Moe (Moe) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:53 am:    The Detroit in the rear does take some getting used to in the snow. At higher speeds it can be squirrily. Slower speeds and lighter throttle will settle the rear end but there is always the chance to crab sideways even on gentler slopes. In this pic it is hard to say if it was driver error or the detroit that helped pull the rig to the side of the trail http://www.discoweb.org/walltrail/IMG_0350.jpg   mongo Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:55 am:    On the TT in ice...I hit black ice in my DII with TT's front and rear, It actually helped me recover. I live in Upstate New York, where it snows all the the time and I've had no problems in a lot of different situations...just my .02 cents.. Frank   PerroneFord Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 12:00 pm:    Phillip, I thought about the ARB, and it no doubt has some advantages. But the thing just had too many points of failure for me to feel comfortable with it. I had though quite seriously about the Max-Drive locker. It seems to have less failure points than the ARB and is reportedly quite strong. The only problem with it is the specialized install that I couldn't get done locally. So, the best option for me was to ship my entire 3rd member to GBR, have the DL installed and get it shipped back whole. I'll do the truetrac the same way at the end of the summer and be done with it. I'd really like to upgrade to the 24 spline at the same time, but I'm not sure what all is involved yet. -P   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 12:02 pm:    phillip loves to play with buttons. that's why he likes the ARB.   JMcD Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 12:13 pm:    No Ho, the chevy has an np205, part time 4wd. It only crabs in 2wd on snow. I don't always run with my hubs locked so some times I am just too lazy to get out lock 'em up. In 4wd the detroit is not nearly as noticable. I would be more inclined to put a detroit in a full time 4wd than a part time, I believe the fronts turning decreases the crabing affect of the locker. I will say this, for what it's worth, I have had 2 detroits and they are the toughest most reliable locker I have ever had. Clicking and ratcheting and all. But thats just my opinion. JMcD   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 10:49 pm:    "Axel, are you running a trutrac up front or open? " Perrone, I am still running open in the front. I'll probably get a truetrack eventually, but not this year.   PerroneFord Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:15 pm:    I think you're the only person I've spoken to that is running an open front and a rear Detroit. Most people seem to just do both diffs at once. How much disadvantage are you at without the front traction aid? Most of the guys I wheel with are open, but a few are locked front and rear or have the DL/TT combo, so I really don't have any comparison to go on... I went out today and did a few runs at places I've gotten stuck in the past, and I just walked through it all. Very cool. But I really do want the TrueTrac when the money gets right. -P   Kyle Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:19 pm:    The front traction aid really shines on climbs. On the footage that was shot at hole in the rock last year you could see that the trucks with open fronts had more difficutly on some ledges and could get over some things at all. I am including one ARB equipped truck in that pack because , as always , his was broke....oops.. (I will catch shit now) Kyle   PerroneFord Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:29 pm:    Not too many climbs here in FL. But there is a lot of sand and mud. The primary reason I'm after the front locker is because I have seen trucks really struggle in deep sand without the front locker or limited slip. I'll be trying some serious sand and mud in a few weeks so I guess that will determine if I am going to be in a hurry or not. I need to investigate moving from a 10 spline to 24 spline front. One other question. I've noticed that when turning from a standstill, like when at a light or stop sign, the tire tends to scrub. I am being as gentle on the throttle as possible while still getting into traffic. Is this normal or should the locker be disengaging in these situations. I'm not particularly worried either way, just want to know if this thing is working properly. Thanks for all the help guys. -P   Kyle Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 11:34 pm:    Hmmm , that aint right. Since those thigns are set up by hadn there is a huge variance in them. The tighter the preload the easier it will dissengage. Axel's and the one in mine are probably the two best I have Installed. If it doesnt free up some and it keeps dragging a tire I would return it. If you are on the throttle its gonna scrub... The lockers that disply those types of symptoms though are ussually the noisey ones. No noise issues at all ?? Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 12:51 am:    kyle, cmon. you know why people love the ARB so much on snow. because they stay open no matter what. just like it was open the whole fucking time at the hole.   PerroneFord Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 01:07 am:    Kyle, To specify, The locker makes zero noise that I can tell. I think I heard it click once in the past two days, but it might have been my brake pads on the rotors. When I coast around corners, I don't hear any scrubbing. But any time I start off from a standstill and turn, I hear the scrubbing but obviously I am on the gas making that turn. It seems fine on twisty roads, coasting around sharp bends, and going from drive to coast and back again. I've actually been amazed that the thing is as quiet as it is. I thought it might not have been working properly until I tested it off-road today. -P   Kyle Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 09:06 am:    Oh yes Ho that ARB is "Like not having a locker in there at all" Kyle   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 09:07 am:    Perrone: That sounds just like the way mine behaved. For the first couple of weeks after the install, I didn't notice any clicking, either. After that, faint clicking on tight turns. Occasionally, if I gas it hard on a tight turn, like for example when you wait for an opening in traffic when making a left turn at an intersection, get one and step on it, I get a little scrub, too. The locker is fine, though. Kyle did a nice job on that install. The timing was right, too. When we took out the rear carrier, we discovered that the center pin was cracked, and was getting reay to go. A week or two later, that rear diff would have grenaded, but that's another story. Axel   PerroneFord Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:21 am:    Ok, cool. I won't worry anymore about it then. We'll see how it behaves in a few week's time. Thanks for putting my mind at ease guys. This thread has been quite useful. -P   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:30 am:    mine is total stealth also. not a clickity click ever. i was occasionally (one in 6 months) getting the obligitory BANG. seems that driving , round and round looking for a spot in a parking lot , then giving it hell pulling out will cause a bang. i can feel it when it's getting sassy like this. i just try to drive in a straight line for a while and let it relax a bit. now that i've adjusted my style it's been a while since i heard the bag. rd   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 06:13 pm:    Yeah buttons are cool...I like the sounds they make too   Darryl (Smeag) Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 06:49 pm:    In my DII I have TT in front and DL in back, I live in Va and drove this winter both before and after with lockers, I can't tell much difference, maybe because, I drive on-road with the center diff unlocked, or maybe cause I've drove ice and snow for "fun" for nearly 30 years starting in a 72 LC. Never let snow and ice stop you getting lockers. Darryl   E Snyder Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 06:09 am:    I run a Detroit in the rear and open in the front. I haven't really had trouble in the snow, but you have to be aware of the difference of driving with a locked rear and drive accordingly. Sometimes off roading with only a rear diff locked you can use it to your advantage, kicking the ass of your truck around obstacles, etc. I've thought about the TT up front, but I don't want to get into upgrading CV joints, etc. I guess I'll just winch through the hill climbs that need that extra front locker for now. PS- My Detroit bangs a lot (once a week or so, and I don't drive my truck much during the week), but seems to work fine. Does anyone know if this banging (which comes from the locker disengaging while loaded as far as I can tell) will shorten the life of the locker?   p m Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:10 pm:    Enoch, do you have stock axleshafts in the rear? The locker's stronger than stock axles, but if an axle snaps, the DL may follow. back to the snow & rear locker issue, my jeep became very squirrelly in less than 6" of snow in off-camber spots. A front locker can help (to break traction at the front end, too), so it may end in the ditch but more or less lined up with the road. Kyle might say it's my POS EZ locker, but it works all the same. peter   Kyle Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:13 pm:    Peter , the theory go's. That if you are off camber and have an open diff. Only one wheel will spin leaving the other static to anchor you. Well , Maybe in 1% of the situations this will hold true. I have had open diff trucks go with the slope as well as the truck with a locker. You have to adjust your driving with either..... Thats just the way it is. And yes , your Locker is a POS. Kyle   p m Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:22 pm:    LOL i won't defend my EZ locker, a POS is a POS But it gave me a good idea of what and how would change with a locker. adjust your driving... tell me how? peter   E Snyder Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:37 pm:    Peter, I have HD shafts from GBR in the rear. I'm still curious if anyone knows if all the banging of a Detroit shortens is life. By the way, Peter's link was to a straight hill climb. The locker can only help you on that particular climb. If that was on a side slope it would make a difference.   E Snyder Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:38 pm:    After looking at the picture again, I think this is really what you need to get up that hill! www.tirechains.com   p m Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:43 pm:    LOL Enoch, the hill quickly turns into hill + off-camber, and that's where a locker helps you quickly lose your momentum chains, sure, you can't see'em on the picture, there are some good chains on the rear wheels. nobody climbed that hill on this day, although I had a privilege to break the snow. There were more takers later, and someone rolled down from mid-way. peter   Kyle Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:54 pm:    Sometimes peter you need a little umph.... (A rare moment there)... http://www.discoweb.org/area53/5area53.jpg Kyle   p m Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 02:39 pm:    that's lovely. too bad, extra umph would have sent me into the mud bank besides, it takes forever and 1/2 to spin up that 360 peter   John Kruger (Johnnyk) Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 11:13 am:    Live in Wisconsin, snow and ice are a way of life in the winter. I drive 60 miles round trip to work on county hwys and I have not had a problem. Drove to Fargo during a blizzard, no problems. Got back from Milwaukee yesterday during a snowstorm, no problems. It is more about the driver than the vehicle. John   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 11:32 am:    Agreed. I grew up in Norway, and learned how to drive there. So I think I can safely say I know a thing or two about driving in snow and ice, too. You just have to realize that the laws of physics still apply whether you have a locker or not, then everything will be fine.   p m Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 12:14 pm:    Sure thing Ax, I grew up and honed my driving at 56N latitude. Laws of physics are okay, however, it doesn't mean that you can drive 30mph on the freeway thinking it's the safe limit. The grim reality is that even if it's true, there will be some idiot running around at 50 or 80, and the more is the speed difference, the worse the impact . Face it, very often we drive faster than we'd thought safe just because driving slower than traffic isn't a ticket. So, the real issue is should you change your ice driving habits with an automatic locker or not, and to me the answer is a definite yes. peter   kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 12:33 pm:    Peter , its all an adjustment. If you are running a truck thats open you have to adjust when it snows. The same is true for a truck thats locked. Dont compare locked to unlocked . Compare dry pavement driving to snow driving. If you dont adjust you will have issues. The adjustments may not be the same but they are adjustments none the less.. Kyle   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 12:47 pm:    driving a rear only locked disco in the snow is similar to driving a 4x4 pick up truck, the tail wants to come around. the stock disco is easier for an unexperienced person to drive in snow and ice than a locked rear. i know "you have to adjust" but there is a certain amount of stress you will get while you "learn" to adjust... we used to have snowy winters all the time here, and i feel i am a very good driver in the snow. expecially a disco with center diff locked and open front and rear.. i can really controll the truck, slidding myself around bends and that sort of thing, with the detroit it's not as easy and i dont think i will ever reach the level of comfort i had previous to the locked rear end. seems i'm to dumb too learn how to permenently adjust. rd   p m Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 12:47 pm:    yes, this is true. but wasn't it the main question of this thread? two months ago at Mammoth the rear TT sent my rear sideways where I was almost sure I was driving slow enough not to break traction. And that's a "gentle" TT. All the difference - I haven't driven on ice since I installed the TT. peter   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 01:08 pm:    not that we have snow here or anything but why don't you guys post what to do when the freaking thing is crabbing sideways... all this bitching and no real lesson... what the fuck do you do when this bitch is going sideways? unlock the center diff? chains? what? not in the normal driving, i would like to know what do you have to do in an offcamber trail when you are inching your way to the cliff? damn 80) Simon   p m Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 01:17 pm:    Simon, chains will help, esp. ones with the links along the circumference of the tire. as a simple solution, i would recommend extending the wheelbase... by 24-48"... peter   E Snyder Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 04:09 pm:    Turn into it! Let up on the gas! Say F*** several times! You'll get the hang of it, Simon. Enoch   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 04:14 pm:    You just have to flow with it. Just like driving an open truck. There is a flow... I dont think Mexicans can feel it..... Kyle   p m Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 04:18 pm:    sure they can, Kyle a warm and smooth flow of Tequila down the throat... peter   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 05:12 pm:    hey mexican know more about flow than you redneck bitches.. hehehehe I drove a front drive car when I lived in Toronto and I never had an issue with snow.. i just want to know what the fuck is all this bitching about.. detroiiiiiit suuuuuck... arb faaails.. tt's are gooood fuck the truck crabs to the cliff ...man.. you are all a bunch of girly gringos.... i guess you need some good colombian neck tie or just a mexican can of whoopass! hehehe fucking gringos.. always bitching.. Simon not a mexican...   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 05:24 pm:    or just move to florida where we only have to deal with floads, tornados, hurricanes and mexican drivers...ahh and old fart gringos too. but not snow... Simon   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2002 - 11:34 pm:    well, i never said detroit sucked in the snow... just it's not as good as open. you do have to practice. rd   Jake Hartley (Jake) Posted on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 08:38 am:    I have a J**P with Detroits front and back, 3" lift and 32"s (winter vehicle to save Disco from salt abuse) and it has some, umm, interesting characteristics in the snow. Of course it's kind of short and light. It will crab and swerve like mentioned, but it is controlable and you get mucho traction. It doesn't like ice much, but with a little snow on top of it, you can go just fine. I am thinking of DLs in the DI also and they should do just fine. You just have to adjust to a different driving style.   Chris Merritt (Smokinbro) Posted on Wednesday, April 03, 2002 - 11:32 am:    The answer is to practise. Nobody was born with the ability to drive in the snow and ice. I blew off tank fulls of gas in a shopping mall parking lot learning how to drive my old datsun 510, same principle here. Take the truck into the bush and practice on a few hills where you anre NOT likely to fall off the mountain and see what you can do. But face it, if the surface is soft of slick enough and the grade is large enough, you are gonna crab. If the front wheels have a little grip, you can at least 'drag' the front end uphill, no?   JRoc Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2002 - 10:38 pm:    How bout the TT in the snow?   Kyle Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 10:43 am:    There was this one time , in Moab , Ho was driving near me , and his locker made soooooo much noise that it startled me , and because I have a detroit as well I lost control of my vehicle and it crabbed somewhere all on its own. And there was simply nothing I could do about it. Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 11:01 am:    you forgot about the important part.... you are dead. LOL   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 11:01 am:    Gee thanks, Kyle, I'm cleaning coffee off of my monitor now.... -L   p m Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 12:56 pm:    nice way to start a day, Leslie, i'm glad i haven't a chance to fill up my mug yet peter   Kyle Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 01:06 pm:    You are laughing at my traumatic experience with the mystical powers of the detroit locker ? That just aint right..... Kyle   p m Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 01:09 pm:    naw Kyle, actually, i sit here between two rovers that are falling apart on me, and grind my teeth at every 4x4 driving by, locked or not. peter   Kyle Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 02:46 pm:    Well I am not even going to bother telling you about the time that the Detroit made me take the wrong road and got me lost.... You will just make fun of me..... Kyle   Anonymous Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 07:39 pm:    I live in Maine, it snows like crazy, and i have no control in it at all. Only in a strait line, if there are any turns in the road I'm fucked, and in a ditch. At least I have a disco though, it beats having a toyota tercel in the snow...