| Author |
Message |
    
F.J. (Rovercon)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 09:35 pm: | 
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I wanted to change the engine oil on '96 Disco and I wanted to ask for some advise. Should I buy the LR oil filter or use an aftermarket one? I saw some K&N filters...... anyone else using this filter?
Also, what kind of oil do you guys use? The truck has 62K on it and I was thinking about using synthetic oil (like Mobil 1).
Lastly, I searched the 2001 archives and I found the following and I was wondering if this the correct way to change the oil
"I wouldn't say changing oil in a disco is standard. Instead of draining oil, removing filter, replacing filter and pouring new oil in, the way to do it in a disco is this way...
1. drain oil
2. pour new oil in
3. remove old filter
4. put new filter in
This is so you don't lose prime in the oil pump. As far as the copper ring goes, some people change it every oil change, some change it every other."
The oil filter looks like it is slighty tilted downward so I am concerned that if remove the used filter with an engine full of new oil, some of it might spill out when I try to screw in the new filter. |
SG
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 09:45 pm: |
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First of all, the filter and oil pump is above the engine oil level, so it won't pour out. It is also the reason why the oil pump can lose its prime...and the reason for the unusual sequence of drain/fill/filter.
No need to use the gen-u-wine filter. Oil filters of the Purolator PER-1, A/C PF-2, Fram PH-8A ilk are the most common oil filters on the planet. Personal preference there, but this family of filters are about 1" longer than stock.
I've used the same copper washer for a dozen oil changes....
I usually use synthetic everywhere 'cept the crankcase. (I'm giving it a try this time with Castrol Syntec.) If you change the oil frequently as you should, like every 3,000 miles, synthetic gets pretty dang expensive.
Cheers |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 03:29 pm: |
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Synthetic oil isnt too good for higher mileage engines, i recommend valvoline 20W-50... |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 03:41 pm: |
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Huh?
Synthetic not good for higher mileage engines?? Why not? Synthetic protects engine surfaces better, causes less wear, and doesn't break down via heat as much as dino juice. About the only real drawback is that it's expensive.
-P |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 04:03 pm: |
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Perrone,
"I heard" that you dont want to put in in your engine after your car has become a high mile vehical. There are acids and detergents in Synthetic oil that clean your engine, but, they can break down your seals if you have a high-mile engine. You also dont want to put synthetic in a car that leaks oil.... This is stuff I read so take it for what its worth second hand knowledge. I use a synthetic blend from Mobil 1. and am quite happy with it.
JK |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 04:16 pm: |
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Oh my goodness. Yes, synthetics have detergents. So do good dino oils. Synthetics do not "break down engine seals". They may seep past worn ones though.
Whether or not you want to put synthetic in a vehicle that leaks depends on your point of view. For the folk that tend to try and ignore leaking rather then fix their problems, the synthetic may be problematic. For those who actually like to repair problems they see, the synthetic may bring to light a problem the cautious owner didn't know existed. I suppose the decision falls to which camp you belong. I don't see vehicle maintenance as the great burden some people do and I try to fix problems when I find them. Other's tend to find creative solutions so they don't have to spend a Saturday and $10 on a new seal. There are some notable exceptions to this though, like having a leaking rear main seal or a leaky pinion seal. Replacing either requires special tools and knowledge. I'd still use the synthetic if I were so inclined and just live with the fact my truck is better protected but leaks more.
Just my honest opinon...
-P |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 05:10 pm: |
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I also understand that once synthetic is used you must not return to the genuine type! |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 06:15 pm: |
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Rubbish. |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 06:41 pm: |
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Well I went to the mobil1 site here is what they said "In engines that are in good condition, seal compatibility will not be a problem. Some older engines produced before the mid-1970s were manufactured with looser tolerances than today's engines. Low-viscosity grades of oil can leak from these engines." There is a FAQ at http://www.mobil1.com/why/myths.jsp.. Good read. I couldn't find any information on the rumor that synthetics make seals expand. So I am guessing that it is a rumor.
JK |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 07:03 pm: |
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Low viscosity has nothing to do with synthetic or dino. If you're running an engine with worn rings or dodgy seals, running 0w30 in dino or synth is going to show up issues. Thanks for posting the FAQ. Maybe that will help dispel some of the myths about running syntetic. My BMW has almost a quarter million on it using Mobil 1 (and dino a few times when I was broke!) but it's had no engine work at all and runs like a damn top.
-P |
Michael Noe (Noee)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 07:31 pm: |
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P:
I hear ya, my 533 just turned 260k, never touched the engine, we've run everything from Mobil 1 to QS SAE30. |
M. K. Watson (Lrover94)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 07:37 pm: |
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"There are acids and detergents in Synthetic oil that clean your engine"....detergents (not a whole lot) yes, acids no....that is the real advantage of Syn. oils. fossil or bean type oils will emulsify with water, on a molecular level this cause the break down of the oil, this in turns creates acid, the acid bonds to the metal surfaces, more tragicly to the babbit surfaces of your bearings. this cause pitting, over time the pitting increase to the point that the oil can not form a proper hydrodymanic wedge. without a uniform formation wedge of oil between the rotating surfaces you get overheating caused by friction. this in turn cause the tolerances to be altered. the result is premature wear. with the development of better dino oils the problem has been greatly reduced. however if you are in very damp climates the risk of this occurring is increased. you cant keep the moisture out, but you cant use good oil and do change the oil OFTEN!
IMHO
mike w |
Jake Hartley (Jake)
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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Pennzoil 10W30 from anywhere, it's cheap, it works, and I have a 250K mile DI with NO oil consumption to prove it. Changing filters and oil on a regular basis is the best thing that you can do for an internal combustion engine. Considering the understressed state of tune and operation most of our trucks run in, IMHO, you don't need synthetic unless it just makes you feel better. |
Douglas Jones (Ozaukeedoug)
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:51 pm: |
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I would use anything BUT Pennzoil. Not that people aren't happy with it, Jake, but I just won't use it. A friend of mine is a mechanic and he won't use it, so that's good enough for me. He says there is some problem with paraffin? I don't know all the details so I'm probably talking out of my ass here. I'll ask my buddy tomorrow. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:21 pm: |
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Acids being generated through water and oil? Man, if Standard Oil only knew about this...
Any "Oil" by definition will emulsify with water. If it doesn't, I doubt you'd want it in your engine. Imagine what would happen if the oil in your vehicle were to dissolve in water. I don't want that happening to me.
As for synthetic versus naturally occurring oil... Where do you suppose they get the feedstock to make the synthetic? Yup, it comes out of the ground as crude oil, as does most of the feedstock for the chemical processing industry. There are more commercial feedstocks from crude oil than we could ever hope to traditionally mine.
Now, back to the acid issue. The acids that form in motor vehicle lubrication systems are there from the effects of heat, pressure, combustion by-products and blow-by. Any other suggestion is BS. You gotta have the conjugate to form the acids with the Hydrogen ions coming from busted up oils.
Furthermore, they don't necessarily "bond" to the parts of the vehicle, they catastrophically react with them (good ol' Redox).
As for what oils I run in my vehicles... My farm truck with 215,000 miles gets the old oil from the Rover. The camp truck with shall we say indeterminate mileage, gets the oil from the Farm truck! The Rover usually gets Castrol and the cheapest non-Fram oil filter I can find, currently, Ford's FL-1A since Wal-Mart apparently discontinued the AC PF-2. Change early, change often!
Paul |
M. K. Watson (Lrover94)
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 06:41 pm: |
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i was half right! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 03:16 pm: |
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OK, so I bought the LR oil filters and I guess I will do the oil change myself just to see how much of a pain it will be. The dealer wants $55 for the work which is a rip off and I don't trust Jiffy Lube (or others like that) to do it properly if the Disco's oil change is unique. |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 03:23 pm: |
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Unique??
-remove plug and drain oil
-take off old filter
-add new filter
-install plug (and washer)
-add new oil (7 quarts or so)
-drink beer
cost=about $20
ps: Grease Monkey's can do just about anything.....they rule!! LOL.  |
F.J. (Rovercon)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 12:36 am: |
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well that's the way I've always done it to all the cars I've owned.... but someone said this in a previous post
1. drain oil
2. pour new oil in
3. remove old filter
4. put new filter in
Which is adding new oil with the old oil filter still on. "It is also the reason why the oil pump can lose its prime...and the reason for the unusual sequence of drain/fill/filter."
I am assuming most people put a new oil filer on before they add the new oil -- at least that's how I always done my oil changes. |
Steve
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 02:22 am: |
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The filter on my 4.0, and I believe on the previous motors, screws up from the bottom. As such, I always pour some oil in the filter before installing it. It's probable just superstition on my part, but I believe that it helps the engine get oil pressure quicker and prevents wear. As to oils, more myth and superstition, I believe that any good oil, dino or synth, should work. The motorcycle clubs and sites have beat this issue to death for several years. One chemist I know even did some research on oil compatibility. The modern oils are compatible and oil related or caused failures are few. Improper weight and/or grade causing the oil failure problems. A lot of discussion recently has revolved around the valve rocker flaking problem that affects some 4 valve Ducatis. Given the wide variety oils used, the Ducati problem appears to be a part problem, not an oil problem.
Nonetheless, I know where some of the synthetic oil eats your seals story comes from. In 1976-77 a new snythetic oil came on the market in California named NEO. This oil worked fine in American cars but leaked and killed seals in British motorcycles. (I worked at a motorcycle shop at the time) NEO or the dealership warrenteed the repairs and the NEO distributer bought back the left over oil stocks. The company returned to the market with a reformulated oil under the name EON. Eon did not have any problems that I know about, just left over fear. I think EON went broke as it the dropped off the market locally shortly thereafter.
So change the oil and filter often, use the oil that sounds best to you and know that whatever filter you use, the more often you change your oil the less you must rely on the filter.
Steve |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 09:53 am: |
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Improper weight and/or grade causing the oil failure problems.
Steve:
It would be very interesting to find if the improper viscosity was due to inappropriate viscosity oil being introduced to the engine, or if the viscosity changed due to age, combustion by-products, fuel dilution, etc. Could well prove that the oil change interval was not frequent enough to avoid this happening-destruction of lubricity, leading to rocker arm failure.
Paul |
Garrett #2
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:43 am: |
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1. Drain
2. Fill
3. Filter
????????????
Is this really how it should be done???? |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
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i don't see any benefit to that Garrett, so i say don't bother. if you want to prime the new filter with new oil fine, but other than that the basic way is all i would recommend. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 03:23 pm: |
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so where do we stand with the oil changing steps? or it doesn't really matter? |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 03:25 pm: |
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just get some fresh oil in there and a new filter........who cares how!! |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 03:46 pm: |
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I have made it a practice to fill the oil filter before I install it. One can argue both ways, but I don't want my engine to be oil-starved for even a fraction of a second.
When changing the oil on my Rover, if it doesn't start immediately, I can expect to hear the beginnings of a knock. So far, it hasn't gotten any worse, but I see no reason to run the risk if the only difficulty I have is handling an oil filter that is trying to dribble oil down my sleeve while I'm trying to spin it on.
Fill the filter with at least some oil before placing it on the engine!
Peace,
Paul |
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