| Author |
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Cal
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 02:16 am: | 
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I was just quoted $16.00 a tube for Landrovers one time grease update. What kind of grease is it? I want to by aftermarket. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:28 am: |
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Just use the oil... It's a far better solution. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 11:04 am: |
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For $35.00 you can get a five-gallon pail of gear oil at Tractor Supply. For slightly more than two tubes of grease, you can afford to change swivel ball and diff lubes everytime you go wading.
As for the quality of Tractor Supply oils, the folks they intend to sell these oils to are putting them into far more expensive farm machinery than our Rovers!
Paul |
Robert Mann (Oldscout)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 11:34 am: |
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You can get CV joint grease at any good auto parts store.
Oil???? Guys I guess you like the leaks! |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 01:43 pm: |
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Robert,
If your swivel ball is leaking, it means the seal is shot. Changing to grease isn't going to fix the seal, nor is it going to keep out the water, mud, sand, and other contaminants.
So the choice is to use grease and hide the problem (temporarily), or replace the seal for a few dollars and continue using the oil which lubricates better and doesn't require a swivel rebuild every time you go deep wading or mud running.
My truck has 100K miles, I am on the original swivel seals, and they don't leak a drop. I change the oil regularly, and have never had a problem.
-P |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 04:32 pm: |
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The newer Disco's are not designed to use oil in the swivels. They don't have the drain plug, so there is no way to easily change what's in there without tearing them down.
Axel |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 05:04 pm: |
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Its probable the seals may not be the fault. The swivels rust and the surface gets 'pits' so the oil escapes. Only solution is to clean and fill with correct type of grease. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 06:17 pm: |
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Axel, The solution there is as easy as a drill and tap.
Anon, why not replace the faulty item then? If oil is slipping past the "pits" in the swivel, then so is water and mud/sand. Again, why not fix the problem instead of mask it.
-P |
Ron
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 06:35 pm: |
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"As for the quality of Tractor Supply oils, the folks they intend to sell these oils to are putting them into far more expensive farm machinery than our Rovers!"
You need to make sure you get something other than the cheapo 90wt. You have to get the GL-4 or better not GL-1 which is quite common for tractors but wholely unsuitable for rover cvs.
Ron
PS keep in mind the average tractor spends almost all of its time under 10mph |
Robert Mann (Oldscout)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 07:03 pm: |
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Axel, The solution there is as easy as a drill and tap.
Seems like more a PITA than it's worth. But you never do make much sense to me. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 07:46 pm: |
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How hard is a drill and tap?? And if that seems more trouble than it's worth, then you ought to try rebuilding the swivel housing every time you do some deep wading when you have to clean that grease out.
And Robert, you don't make much sense to me either. I can't understand why someone would take every shortcut to keep from doing a job properly.
-P |
Robert Mann (Oldscout)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:03 pm: |
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I can't understand why someone would take every shortcut to keep from doing a job properly.
Care to fill me in on just what shortcut your referring to???????? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:25 pm: |
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The one of putting grease into the swivels instead of oil, simply because the seal is leaking...
Or maybe I'm wrong and this is not what you were suggesting earlier.
-p |
Robert Mann (Oldscout)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:42 pm: |
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My rover came with grease not oil!
So in your opinion the factory retro fit to grease from oil is wrong? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 09:02 pm: |
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For my needs, the retrofit was wrong. I believe the dealers were probably screaming about having to redo the swivels so rover's solution to the problem was to put in grease instead of rework the seals.
The problem as I see it, is that as the seals begin to fail, ordinary 90wt would seep out and alert you to the fact that the seals were failing. I don't know where you off-road, but here in FL, we have 3 types of off-roading. Mud, sand, and water. And they all find their way inside the swivel housings once the seals begin to fail. Putting grease in the swivels prevents the leaking, but still allows the contaminants into the swivel. The difference is that where I can open the drain and let all that contaminated 90wt oil out, the swivel filled with grease has to be stripped to be cleaned.
If I owned a rover with out the drain, I'd drill and tap a hole. That would take about 30 minutes per side, but would pay dividends down the road. The CV joints, and swivel pin bearings are pretty sensitive to grit, and I really feel thats why many fail. When I am offroading regularly, I drain the swivels about once every 30 days. Takes 30 minutes to drain and fill both sides. Dismantling the swivels takes over 2 hours per side.
-P |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 09:52 pm: |
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"Axel, The solution there is as easy as a drill and tap."
I'm aware of of that. I was simply pointing out that for someone with a newer Rover, using oil instead of grease or changing out the grease that is in the swivel is not a straight forward process. |
marty amedeo (Marty)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:06 pm: |
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"For my needs, the retrofit was wrong. I believe the dealers were probably screaming about having to redo the swivels so rover's solution to the problem was to put in grease instead of rework the seals."
Did you ever stop to think that maybe they realized that the OIL was the wrong application and the grease was right ??????? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:44 pm: |
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Sure. And independent suspension is the right solution, and ETC is the right solution. They are the right solution for some.
If you think about what the grease accomplishes you will see what they were doing. The swivel oil has the basic function of keeping the CV joint lubricated. It also lubricates the actual swivel ball, and the joints on the swivel. Since there is no pump in that area, the bearings are splash oiled. So it stands to reason that a very heavy oil or grease would have a harder time splash oiling the swivel housing. It would flow poorly when cold, and may well take several miles of travel to reach a splashable viscosity in winter or cold areas.
So if LR specified this grease, they most certainly did do it because it was more effective, or offered better lubrication. So we are left to speculate why the did move to it. I've offered my hypothisis, now lets hear yours.
-P |
Cal
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:55 pm: |
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All I wanted to know was, What kind of grease is in the expensive Landrover tubes. Can someone just tell me that?
Cal |
Robert Mann (Oldscout)
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 11:33 pm: |
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Cal go get CV Joint grease moly based, it's available at most auto parts stores.
When I turned a wrench for a living at a Porsche shop all we used in CV joints was this:
http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/cv-2pds.pdf |
Ron
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:18 am: |
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"they most certainly did do it because it was more effective, or offered better lubrication"
I disagree. From what I can figure out that grease is a 90 or 140wt oil with a lot of moly in it. This would seem to be a better lubricant than the plain 90wt.
Your point is well taken that draining it is a PITA.
Ron |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:55 am: |
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Ron,
Wouldn't it seem more logical for them to add moly to a base oil that splashed better? I doubt the grease is a 140. a 140 is still pourable at room temperature where the grease is not. It is certainly not as thick as bearing grease, but people have been talking about placing the packets in almost boiling hot water to get it to flow out of the packet more easily.
Robert mentioned a CV joint grease which seems logical, but I wonder if the applications he mentioned were live axle applications with oil bath on the axle. It seems to me that you'd get oil/grease contamination if you did something like that in our trucks. Maybe he can explain it better. I still like the idea of being able to drain the oil out of there to get out the water. I've thought about changing my 91 RR back to an oil bath for the bearings.
-P |
Robert Mann (Oldscout)
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:19 am: |
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Wouldn't it seem more logical for them to add moly to a base oil that splashed better?
Care to explain this? How would adding moly make it splash better? |
al hang
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 07:57 am: |
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How would adding moly make it splash better
I think he meant adding moly to a oil versus a grease. His question is about the base stock not the moly additive. |
Cal
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
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Thanks Robert. |
p m
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 10:14 pm: |
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Perrone,
i don't know much about lubricants, but somewhere i read that some additives just don't stay suspended in oil and fall out to the bottom.
CV joints are the first or second most-shear-stressed component in a vehicle, maybe something is necessary to keep the lil' balls in a good shape.
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 10:30 pm: |
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I don't know how hard it is to suspend Molybdenum Disulfate, but it is used in a variety of bases. I would imagine since it's used in a powedered form for dry lubricants (like NASA specifies), that it would be reasonably easy to suspend in 90-140w oils.
Paul Schram would be the guy to ask on this with his background.
-P |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 10:31 pm: |
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For those of you so inclined.....
http://www.d-90.com/~daveg/Swivels/report.html
FWIW....
-L |
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