| Author |
Message |
    
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 10:10 am: | 
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All:
I do not wish to become one of those folks who lifts his truck and puts big tires on it, just to get stuck with no suitable recovery points.
I have purchased a big cad plated d-ring rated at 11,000 pounds. The mounting plate is equally hefty.
I looked at my Disco and it appears as though I can probably mount this hook near the front bumper mounting points on the bottom of the frame. I was planning on drilling two holes to match the ring and making a backing plate of 3/16" CRS. Drill the holes, put the backing plate in place, bolt through the frame and away I go. I intend to use 1/2" hardware to mount.
Tell me why I should/should not do it this way.
Thanx,
Paul
'95 Disco |
Moe
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 10:26 am: |
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Mount it on an aftermarket bumper, with the bolts facing foward. If I understand you correctly with the way you want to mount it, the D-ring will see most of its force from side pulls, which might not be a good idea. I also don't like the idea of drilling more holes in the frame horns |
[email protected]
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 05:33 pm: |
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The only downside I can see is that you are through-bolting across a box beam and this could get loose with use. To be an total anal-retent you would have to weld a tube into the hole first. This will keep the box from springing and working your bolted joint loose. Then lock wire the nuts or or use self locking(deforming or plastic insert). As far as putting the force on sideways, that seems like a non-issue. If the bolts are tight the shear force is dissipated across the entire contact patch of the mounting bracket. If it is not so tight then you are relying on the shear strength of the bolts, which is still good. I haven't run the numbers, but my gut feeling is that a straight ahead mounted bracket is likely to be weaker, because it relys on the strength of the threads in the bolt/nut interface for all of it's strength.
The bigger issue looks like you will foul the horns and potentially lots of other stuff with your cable depending on which way you are pulling.
cheers
-jeff |
muskyman
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 06:22 pm: |
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moe is correct,
the rating of 11,000 lbs is based on a direct pull centered not pulling against sideways
It sounds like you have a 11,000 lb trailer D ring
they are actually only rated for an overhead load of 550 lbs
overhead rating is 1/10th failure rating.
this has always made me wounder if the 11,000 is meant on two units not alone?
you can get these at most trailer supply places.
I have a friend that swears they are dot rated for 22,000lb trailer?
if you are only using a winch it may be strong enough.
but to use it as a recovery point for a strap where it gets a shock load instead of even ramped up load. it may deform and fail
using another vehicle as a snapper with a strap can generate huge forces! |
Tom Snurka
| | Posted on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 11:58 pm: |
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Okay, if that isn't the right way to mount a recovery point, what is? Obviously, without a aftermarket bumper the Disco wasn't designed to be recovered. What shall we do? |
muskyman
| | Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:16 am: |
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thats my next project...
I'v got a great idea going
i'll post pics for you guys when I'm done |
Neal Glessner (Nealg)
| | Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:19 am: |
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Muskyman,
I'm cheering you on! |
Jeff Conrad (Jwconrad)
| | Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 02:02 am: |
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Check these out, provides a recovery point and a jacking point for a highlift with the D90 adaptor. I found them on David Bowyer's site linked off of Difflock.com
$85.00 plus shipping from UK
looks like a good fix
Jeff |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 05:13 am: |
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Two Jate rings and a 6-8ft bridle made of a tree strap would be ideal.
You can make your own Jate rings which if this what you are doing muskyman shoot me an email.
Otherwise I know roversnorth sells them and probably others too.
Ron
evilfij(at) yahoo.com |
Dale Farr (Farrdg)
| | Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 01:11 pm: |
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Paul,
Here is a link that Ho supplied on the E/E bulletin board.
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/4628/picts/Img0012.jpg
This shows a picture of the Military "JATE" Recovery/tow rings, and how they are installed on the frame of your L/R. These can be purchased for $37.38 from TLR Land Rover parts, best price that I've found yet. TLR is listed in the resources link. These should do the trick for you. You may have to takeoff or modify the front air dam if it is still on your vehicle. Attach a bridle to both points and then your ready to attach your recovery strap or winch cable for recovery. Good luck.
Dale |
Andy Thoma
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 03:13 pm: |
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Jeff,
Those recovery points with the high lift points... are they for d-90's or discos? Also do you have the link to the seller of them?
thanks andy 95 d1 |
Jeff Conrad (Jwconrad)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:29 am: |
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Andy, they are for Disco's. They are listed on David Bowyers site in the UK. Here is the link:
You will find them in the product section under jacking. They are called jackmates.
http://www.davidbowyer.com/
Jeff |
Norm
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 01:47 am: |
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Is the stock front "recovery point" on a Disco I worth a damn?
On my '95 I have one substantial-looking ring on the front (driver's side) bolted to the end of the chassis (sticking out through the spoiler) that looks up to the task (don't know why there's not one of these on the passenger side). There's no mention of this in the owner's manual. What is this rated at?
Are the front and rear "towing rings" referred to in the owners manual worth anything besides lashing the truck to a flatbed?
Thanks,
Norm |
Koby (Koby)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 02:24 am: |
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Dale, the link for the pic is busted. I think I know where it's supposed to install, but I would like to have a look anyhow.
the Jate rings sold at TLR... what's the name of the part that they use so when I order them THey know what I'm talking about? I didn't see the Jate ring listed. Is this it???
TOW & LIFTING RING 110 $37.75 RC3237 |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:17 am: |
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Yeah that is the jate ring RC3237. I am working on installing mine they are a little to tight to get on the truck righ now so I am working on that. If you buy those jate rings remember that you will still need to go down to the hardware store and get new bolts before you do an install. I am taking pictures of the whole process and will post a few links when I am done.
Jeremy Katka |
Koby (Koby)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:25 pm: |
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Thanks Jeremy.
Are you installing yours onto a Disco II?
Please send me the pics once you're done. I am going to install these also.
Also- What size and type of bolt did you buy to secure it to the the frame horn? |
Koby (Koby)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:28 pm: |
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Norm-
I think you are referring to the towing ring when you refer to the substantial-looking ring that sticks out through the spoiler.
They are not suitable for recovery use. |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 02:25 pm: |
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Norm - you can use the stock towing eye for recovery - just not to the extreme. I've pulled and been pulled with it lots of times with no ill effects. Just don't count on it in a situation where your truck is wedged up tight against something - most of the time a straight pull won't help anyway in those situations.
Also - wouldn't use it if someone is "snatching" you though, but I don't like that anyway IMO.
Bill |
Bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:26 pm: |
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The ring which faces foward through the spoiler is sufficient for modest pulls. Don't confuse that with the tie-down or lashing loops that face the ground, located further down the frame rail. I have repalced my front loop after my friend in D90 had to snatch me 15 times before I finally was freed. Then the loop did not fail, but showed metal fatigue. IMHO, the loop in the front has covered all of my snatching needs, although these were all straight-on pulls. |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 01:16 am: |
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Hey all I got my quick and dirty of how I installed my JATE rings. Koby I have a '97 D1 SD so I am sure that almost everything is the same except the airdam. Someone told me that the DII air dam and bumper is one piece. I used 5/8x6" hex cap grade 8 bolts though TLR said to use 5/8-5.5" SAE hex cap grade 5 bolts. I could not find them so will probly search untill I do though I suspect grade 8 bolts will be fine for now. My page is http://www.wcug.wwu.edu/~jkatka/JATE-ring.html hope it helps. I will probly up date it when I trim the horns this week.
Jeremy Katka |
Koby (Koby)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 02:59 am: |
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Jeremy
Great page. That's exactly what I needed to see to put it all together.
I am going to order my Jate rings ASAP.
Great job, and thanks again! |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
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Jeremy:
The reason your source suggested grade 5 bolts was probably due to the brittleness of the grade 8 bolts. Grade 8 bolts are great in situations where their failure will not result in loss of life or property. The advantage of a grade 5 in this application (and many others) is that the grade 5 bolts will stretch (the explanation I got was much more vulgar:-), while the Grade 8 Bolts might shear under the same conditions.
In most cases, I would much prefer having something stretch and give me advance notice of the impending failure than to have an immediate and potentially catastrophic failure.
The only situation I have found that really requires grade 8 bolts is in attaching propellers to small general aviation aircraft. In most cases, you won't be hitting anything hard enough to break the bolt and if you did, you would know it far before the bolt failed!
Paul |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:18 pm: |
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Paul,
Totally understand! I went to the two big hardware outfits and neither had much selection on bolts greater then 5" I also tried a small hardware store that had nothing greater then 5". Since I am not hitting the trail today I will be fine  I will definiately be getting some grade 5 bolts sooner then later. The info about them sheering at the same torq is intresting. It was my understanding that a grade 8 bolt would handle more torq but would sheer where as a grade 5 would show signs of distress as you said and then sheer. I have also read that you should regularly change the bolts... I did not intend to disseminate mis information. Thanks for the info Paul I will update the page with some of that info.
Jeremy Katka |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 03:27 pm: |
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Jeremy:
I would have no fears of using a Grade 8 bolt in that application a few times. I wouldn't use it forever and expect it to last.
As for whether the bolt will shear from a radial versus an axial force, I'm not qualified to answer, however, I have made it a practice to use the lower grades in applications where I was worried about continued flexion, versus something that might have steady continuous loads applied. If I'm going to be imparting a heavy momentum to a fastener, I want a grade 5.
As for disseminating misinformation-there is so much on the internet a little more wouldn't hurt:-).
Peace,
Paul |
Dale Farr (Farrdg)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 05:46 pm: |
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Koby,
Sorry I've been out of town. Here is another link from Expedition Exchange. There are some great views. Combine them with the page that Jeremy posted and you should know exactly how they look and how to install them. Good luck. Nice page Jeremy.
Dale |
Dale Farr (Farrdg)
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 05:47 pm: |
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Koby,
Sorry I've been out of town. Here is another link from Expedition Exchange http://www.expeditionexchange.com/jate/indexpics.htm. There are some great views. Combine them with the page that Jeremy posted and you should know exactly how they look and how to install them. Good luck. Nice page Jeremy.
Dale |
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