| Author |
Message |
    
Tomorover (Tomorover)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:50 pm: | 
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How much oil will each swivel hold (on a 95 Disco)? Owners manual has capacities for everything else. Here they are, in hopes of saving somebody some time in the future...
engine oil (with filter change) - 6.05 Qts.
Auto Transmission - 10 Qts.
transfer case - 2.4 Qts.
differentials - 1.8 Qts.
cooling system - 12 Qts.
Thanks. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 01:08 pm: |
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I believe its 350mL or about 1/3 a quart give or take....
-P |
Kingfish (Kingfish)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 02:17 pm: |
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6 quarts with a filter change? I've been putting 7 quarts and the dipstick is right on level. Is there something wrong with my dipstick? |
Tomo (Tomorover)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 04:32 pm: |
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Do I have to disassemble the swivel, etc. to change from grease to oil, or will I be able to drain the grease, assuming I do it hot? |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 04:44 pm: |
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You cannot drain the grease. You need to disassemble. which is why I don't run grease.
-P |
Tomo (Tomorover)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 05:00 pm: |
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I was afraid of that. Is it possible to pack grease in there without disassembling? If you can't tell, I'm trying to avoid disassembling here... |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 05:04 pm: |
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Isn't there a drain hole on the 95's? You may have a drain hole with gear oil in there.
Tom |
Tomo (Tomorover)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 09:29 am: |
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Tom, you the man. I guess I should have crawled under the truck before posting. Sure enough, it has fill, level, and drain plugs.
Now I guess the only question left is....
If there are fill, level, and drain holes, does that mean there was originally gear oil in the swivels, or did LR ever put grease in swivels that have these holes? |
Scott (Scott_Bowden)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 10:11 am: |
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my 94 has the three holes and originally had the oil, then got updated to the grease. LR put decals near the radiator stating grease was installed. |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 10:49 am: |
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Tomo,
No, check out the other threads. I am just a big poseur. 
LR originally put gear oil in the swivels, but then replaced it with "one shot" which is sort of a mix of grease and gear oil. It is supposed to never need changing. (riiiight)
http://www.roverconnection.com/Disco%20Parts/grease.htm
 |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 10:50 am: |
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UGH!
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RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 10:50 am: |
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Screw it. Just go to the link.
Tom |
Tomo (Tomorover)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 11:20 am: |
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Yeah, I'll bet you towed your Disco to Little Rubicon, didn't you? hehehe
Thanks for the link. But the question remains... When LR switched to the one-shot deal, did they delete the drain and level holes, or was there some transition time when they might have both grease and drain holes. I guess if nobody knows, I might just have to open the drain holes and see what comes out! As stated earlier, I am trying to avoid the disassembly at all costs.
Thanks for the input. |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 11:29 am: |
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I hear the switch to the one shot was done automatically when people brought their cars in for service, regardless of drain holes or no drain holes. I think sometime in late 96-97 is when the switch was made to the ball w/out drain holes. I know of folks with 96's that have the drain holes, but my 97 does not, or I just haven't looked hard enough. The only time I replaced mine I had it all apart for lockers and gears anyway. I repacked with grease, so I really didn't pay attention.
If you do have the goopy stuff in there, what may help is to use a compressed air source to blow out the stuff from the top. I haven't tried this method, but I have heard of it being used.
Tom |
Arthur
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 12:15 pm: |
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I have a 96 Disco and I have a question concerning the Swivil housing. If you take off the filler plug at the top, what should you see? ie should you see any grease/oil or whatever is in there? (I removed mine it the botom of the plug was clean( like new) and inside was a very clean metal (no evidende of grease)
Given that the level should have been checked at the service intervals in the manual (I now have approx 120K miles) I expected to see some evidence that grease/oil had been added at some point in time.
Any comments from anyone with knowledge of this would be helpful.
BTW.. this came up because my right front Anti-lock sensor airgap is to big. I noticed that it was not fully seated. I removed it (noticed grease on bottom of it) cleaned crud off of it, but still can't get it down to shoulder on sensor. I'm considering replacing the bushing that is seats into and wondering if I can do this by pulling two bolts on housing, thus avoiding taking apart the whole swivil pin housing, including the CV. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 02:32 pm: |
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Arthur:
You will not be able to tell much from the top plug on your swivel housing. For one thing, the swivel ball itself will obscure anything as it covers up the hole when the wheels are pointed straight forward. If you turn the wheel so it is pointing away from the vehicle, you will gain much clearance-for adding oil, for example.
Try pulling the smaller plug below the filler to determine oil level.
As for the ABS sensor, I will be doing the front end of a Rangie this weekend and will look into it, if no one else answers your question before then.
Peace,
Paul |
Arthur
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 03:32 pm: |
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Paul
Thank you for your response. I'm going away for the weekend and will check in here next week.
BTW... I also started a new discussion "Front Anti-Lock Sensors", (pls check it out) but I have not seen a response yet
Arthur |
Tomo (Tomorover)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 09:12 am: |
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When I pulled the fill, level, and drain plugs on the left swivel housing this weekend, a light brown goop slowly oozed out, so my first thought was "this swivel has been greased". Not having the time or the inclination to pull it and repack it, I went ahead and filled it with 80w90 gear oil. Turns out it leaks due to ball pitting (just never dropped any fluid to be noticeable). So either grease was put in to mask the symptom, or what drained out was combination oil/water/dirt that gotten in there over time.
If it was grease, did I (or will I) hurt anything by running oil in it?
BTW- the right side had oil (about 3/4 quart). |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
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Yikes!
Whatever it was, I suggest opening it up and having a look. That "brown" stuff is rust and dirt/mud. Not good. Running oil in there can't do any harm. All it can do is leak. In fact, it may flush out some of that crap from inside and do the parts good.
But I wouldn't sit on it. Some of the stuff in there is pretty expensive. Check it out, or get it checked out.
Good luck,
-P |
Kingfish (Kingfish)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:11 am: |
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P, no offense, but how come whenever someone finds a slight irregularity with their vehicles, your solution is to dismantle everything? My diff oil came out milky once, I replaced with new oil, and I'm good to go. Would you dismantle your diff. if milky oil came out? Man, I wish I had that kind of free time on my hands. Just yankin' your chain. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:31 am: |
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No prob..
Here is the way I see it:
1. He doesn't know what was run in the swivel balls so obviously the vehicle is either new to him or it has been neglected.
2. Opening it up he saw something highly irregular and doesn't know its cause
3. He mentions he didn't have the inclination to open it up and check properly.
I don't think my suggestion of opening it up and having a look is that far off the mark. And I also suggested he might just fill it with oil and keep motoring.
I've had milky stuff come out of my diffs once too. Right before my wheelbearing seized to the spindle. If you want to ignore things that might be real issues, you are certainly welcome to it. Many owners seem to do just that. I'm not blessed with the money to replace expensive parts, so I have to invest the time to keep expensive parts from breaking.
-P |
johnvigg
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:33 am: |
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So all i get out of this is that you need to use 80w90 if you want to change it with oil |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:56 pm: |
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Johnvigg,
80-90wt oil is the original stuff that came with Rovers. This "one-shot" grease type lube is a newer idea from LR. Is it better??? I don't know and like assholes, everyone seems to have some opinion on it. I just had the seals replaced on my swivels and am using "one-shot" on one and 80-90wt with a little Lucas oil stabilizer in the other. After going on a road trip to Co and NM, through some water, and some trails we are going to review the swivels and see what has taken place. If it is anything worth discussing, I'll post it here.
Regards,
Jaime |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 02:10 pm: |
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I think it really isn't as much an issue of what one puts in their swivel balls (within reason of course). The real issue here is maintaining the sanctity of one's swivel balls. If you keep an eye on whatever you have and keep the level where it belongs, it's all good!
After last weekend dealing with a grenaded CV joint as a result of no oil, I am even more convinced that one merely needs to know that such issues exist and keep an eye on the presence/absence of SOME sort of lubricant in the swivel balls. The shop where it was formerly serviced admitted they didn't even know the swivel balls ran in oil-it's a Mercedes stealershit!
The swivel ball I tore apart on a '93 Rangie that only had 56K on the clock really drove this home to me. The gentleman who owns this vehicle is now in the market for an entirely new swivel ball assembly due to the damage that was done by running it dry with no lubricant unbeknownst to him as his service shop told him they checked ALL of the fluids. The broken bits of cage and the balls tore up the inside of the swivel, I had to use a die grinder to smooth out the gouges so the damned thing would turn from lock to lock (had to tear it apart twice to get it right!).
When we finally get the rest of the parts, what will I put into it? You got it, 80W/90. With new seals in the swivels, and regularly driving the car, I doubt this particular gentleman will ever need worry about his CV joints or swivels.
Do what you think is best, just keep an eye on it-please! I don't want to have to do this again!
peace,
Paul |
Tomo (Tomorover)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 03:21 pm: |
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Damn, I've been exposed...Hello, my name is Tomo, and I have been neglecting my vehicle. After 3 years of neglect and abuse, a recent attack of conscience has me doing maintenance on my Discovery.
As Perrone points out, I don't know what was run in the swivel balls. - Guilty of ignorance and neglect.
Opening it up, I saw something highly irregular and don't know its cause - Guilty of ignorance, but at least I opened it, right?
I don't have the inclination to open it up and check properly. - Guilty of ignorance and lack of time and funds to "do it properly"
I hope you all can find it in your hearts to forgive me for my transgressions. At least I still have my mudflaps! |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 03:31 pm: |
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we are going to review the swivels and see what has taken place. If it is anything worth discussing, I'll post it here.
That's a cool idea. And even negative results are results worth discussing. Please post your results here.
Thanks,
Blue |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 03:36 pm: |
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Hahaha...
I didn't mean for that to sound like a slam on you man! I suspect the great majority of people who own these things (even some enthusiasts) have never changed the swivel fluid either.
I have spent the last 2 years preparing my truck for the expedition use I hope to start next winter. So along those lines, I have been upgrading every system on the truck as time allows. There are some pieces of my truck I have not yet touched, but I have been into just about every system on the thing.
My opinions are my own and other people may not agree. I don't like doing things well enough to get by because every time I have done that its bitten me in the ass. I try to do things right, even if that means re-engineering something I think LR did poorly.
The swivel ball setup is ok, but really does require proper attention. I firmly believe that CV joints on our trucks tend to die early deaths because people don't change that fluid regularly enough. As Paul pointed out, once you get in there and see the damage done, and fork over the $1k to replace all that crap, the 2-3 time a year oil changes seem like much less of a hassle!
Good luck to you.
-P |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 04:51 pm: |
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Blue,
Will post anything that comes out of the comparison for all to review as that will be part of the test. As most have agreed, the damn things are very expensive to replace and my shop Rover doc also has one like Paul was describing. Real mess, all has to be replaced, and all because of no lubrication. So, as much as I "love the smell of napalm" or 80-90wt in the morning, if the "one-shot" is a better mouse trap, then it might be the way to go. I would hope that lubrication products have improved in the last 10 years and maybe "one-shot" is actually better. Anywho, that is what we hope to see.
Regards,
Jaime |
doug james (Dgj95lwb)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 06:09 pm: |
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CV, swivels, oil or grease, add a solid dousing of H2o, mix for 100 mi back home. ....which do YOU find easy to flush ?
80-90 in mine. Only. cheers- dgj |
Kingfish (Kingfish)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 07:30 pm: |
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No offense to any of you, but I think you're all looking at this swivel ball issue from the wrong point of view.
The typical poster here goes offroading and has a working knowledge of fluids that need to be serviced on their Rover.
The typical Rover owner in the U.S. knows what sales Macey's has on shoes and bras and how many kids can be packed in the back.
When I first purchased my disco, I was also curious about the swivel issue. I went to my local dealer to buy some of the grease and I talked to a tech (a very rover-smart one) and he explained to me that because Rovers tend to leak from possibly anywhere, they would get many Rovers in with bad S.B.'s The reason was that most people do not check their fluids regularly (let alone in a place as bizarre as behind a tire) and these things would leak out.
The grease stopped almost every leak. He told me that he rarely gets a bad greased S.B. And when he does, it's caused by ice getting into some sh!t, or other (I forgot exactly what).
So that's my opinion, take it or leave it. Both grease and oil will work. If you dont mind checking for leaks and flushing, go with the oil. If you are of the fill-and-forget type (and don't see much off road), go with grease. |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
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Kingfish,
Interesting information, however, which one provides the better lubrication and protection?? Or is it a combination of lubes?? As earlier mentioned, seeing one of this chewed up and spit out is not a pleasant sight or cheap to repair. So while yes oil will work, is it the best for longevity. This is why we are trying a little experiment to see if there are any indications of what works better. Possibly a useless exercise, yet, it might give some worthwhile information.
Regards,
Jaime |
Albert
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 08:42 pm: |
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Where is this swivel joint and how do I check it. Its a 97 Disco. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:41 pm: |
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Look behing your front tire. See that shiny silver ball? Well the thing that houses it is the swivel housing. If you look at it, you will see it has a large plug on the top (4 sided) and very small plug in the middle, and a somewhat larger plug on the bottom for draining. If you want to drain yours (and you should), buy a quart of oil, drain out the old stuff, and fill it with half a quart of the new. Then do the same on the other side.
If nothing comes out, either it's all leaked out, or you have the LR grease in there. I've never been a fan of the grease for many reasons and they have been expressed here many times so I won't go into it.
As far as whether grease or oil lubricates better, I think its moot. It really doesn't matter much what you use as long as you keep it clean and up to level. My CV joints have over 100k miles on them and look near new. But I also change the oil regularly and inspect them at least twice a year. It's amazing what running a high-quality synthetic oil or grease will do for the longevity of wear parts.
-P |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:25 pm: |
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How many times are we going to go through this, Perrone? If it is a 97 as stated in the question (or later), it most likely came with grease, not oil. Any Disco with the black teflon coated swivels are filled with grease, and there is NO DRAIN PLUG. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 12:00 am: |
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OK Axel. Sorry. I don't keep up with what Model year disco got switched to the grease setup.
So Albert, to check the condition of your swivel housing and its components, you must disassemble it and inspect. I'll leave it to the others to explain the process. It takes 2-4 hours per side.
-P |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 12:12 am: |
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is it 97 and later or 96 and later..... |
Kingfish (Kingfish)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 09:52 am: |
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James "Blueboy" Thompson, regardless of what you use, they both give adequate protection. Also, if you like to renew fluids, the grease will break down after a couple years (?) anyway. You can always pump in some regular oil, while the bolts are removed, to help flush it out. Grease is really nothing more than coagulated (sp?) oil. |
James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 10:20 am: |
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Kingfish,
Yeah, the id is too long as I screwed up when re-registering and RD has already given me shit about it! I'm more inclined to using the 80-90wt oil, however, my Rover doc suggested the test and will clean out the assembly when we're finished then put in whatever I wanted so thought what the hell. Curious to see if there is any difference which given the short duration, there may not be anything worth writting home about.
Regards,
Jaime |
Kingfish (Kingfish)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 11:15 am: |
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When I first added the grease to my SBs at 85k miles (the first time those plugs had been removed), a very black oil oozed out. I guess I was one of the lucky ones who's SBs did not leak. There's no place to offroad (except muddy farms)in my area, so if I don't see a leak, I wont worry about them at least for another year. Perrone made a good point about quality synthetic oil keeping parts in good shape. It is absolutely true. These eyes have seen the light. |
Norm
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 10:50 pm: |
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OK -- so I think we've got the grease vs. oil vs. water in the swivel ball thing worked out.
The questions is, if you're using gear oil, what brand is best? (This goes for the transfer case and the differentials as well.)
I've got a '95 Disco that I've been using Castrol Syntec 75W-90 for the past year with no discernable ill-effects, but I want to move up to a "real" synthetic like Amsoil or Red Line.
Anybody have any opinions or experience with which synthetic oil is best?
Thanks,
Norm |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 11:12 pm: |
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I haven't seen any real evidence to say Amsoil is not the best synthetic going, and quite a bit of evidence to say that it is. That said, its pretty inconvenient for me to get.
I have been running Mobil 1 for some time and I am very pleased with it. I've been tempted to use Royal Purple because it's also easy to get, but I really don't think its any better than Mobil 1. Redline is pretty tough to get unless you live in an area where racing is popular.
I'm really not that fond of the Castrol products so I don't use them. Really, Unless you beat the hell out of your truck any of the popular synthetics should do just fine.
-P |
Kingfish (Kingfish)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 08:27 am: |
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Amsoil is not the best synth. on the market. Perrone, I'm willing to wager that all the places you found positive reviews of Amsoil were on sites of Amsoil "distributers". I'm no expert, but here's what I was told.
Amsoil is one of those Amway or Herbalife type products which are expensive unless you are a "distributer". A very good friend of mine's father in law is a "distributer" for Amsoil, thus my friend gets it for about $3/qt. My buddy used it on his Mustang since new. He even raved so much about Amsoil that he went and bought their extended - super- filter system or whatever the hell it's called. That way he replaced the filter but kept the oil for about 15k miles. To my buddy's dismay, his car started burning about 1 qt every 500 miles (he was rough on it)! That was by 65 k miles.
I have done plenty of research on oils (as I have too much time on my hands) and have NEVER found any positive data that was not posted by "distributer". Actually, when I read their data, it reads like a real pile of BS. Their oils are supposedly FAR ahead of ANY other synthetic oil out there (mobil, redline, etc.). I find it hard to believe that Mobil, with their billions of $ and their million mile BMW (in a controlled environment) are falling behind.
If I am wrong about this, I apologize, as this is how it was explained to me by my buddy's father-in-law (the distributer). I've been using mobil 1 for the past 7 years and if I plan to keep a car for a long time, I'm using that. I had been using red line before, and I'm not thrilled with it.
Just my opinion. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 09:18 am: |
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Kingfish,
I have seen some of what you say, but I never stop there. Beleive it or not, the Govt. does independent testing so that they can get lubricants for the military, NASA, etc. Some of those non-sponsored tests show Amsoil to be ahead of the pack too. Many Fleet operators do their own independent testing as well, and Amsoil seems to be quite popular with them too.
The last piece of the puzzle for me was a gentleman I've known for over 5 years who is a Tribologist. Meaning his career is industrial lubricants, and upon asking him, he felt Amsoil was the best product available commercially. And no, he was not a dealer, as he markets his own proprietary lubricants.
I don't know what all that is worth to the next person, but it was enough for me. I just wish it was easier for me to get. But as I said, I've been running Mobil 1 for a long time and am quite satisfied with the results. My BMW has almost a quarter million miles with Mobil 1 in the engine. It's never even had the heads off. That's all the testiment I need for Mobil 1.
-P |
Kingfish (Kingfish)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 10:35 am: |
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Perrone, maybe Amsoil is very good, but you have to keep in mind that a lot of state or fed. fleets use low bidder and/or a little "under the table" influence. Also, lab tests are can also be questionable. The company that makes Slick 50 claims all kinds of independant tests have rated positive results for them. This can be a long thread because everybody has their opinion on oils. I also have 245k miles on a family volvo, where a mechanic replaced the valve cover gasket amongst a couple other things and told me how good that engine looks (thanks to Mobil 1). I also have a family 318ti which, believe it or not, has 75k miles and looking in through the oil filler looks like it just came off the assembly line. No kidding. |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 09:11 pm: |
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Perrone,
check this for motor oils properties, if you're interested. unfortunately, i can't even recall where i got it from (the link was initially on that page, but it's not there anymore).
FWIW, Amsoil doesn't look too bad.
peter |
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