| Author |
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JRoc
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 08:09 pm: | 
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I'm looking to get new tires for my Disco I and am in need of help. I've pretty much narrowed down the size to 235/85/16's but can't decide on a tire. I am onroad most of the time and this is a daily driver. I have a OME Heavy lift all around and Bilstein shocks. I play mostly in the east coast. I know that with this type of thing there's gonna be a trade off. Can't REALLY have the best of both worlds but does anything come close? Like I said I'm onroad most of the time so onroad performance is primary, but I want something that won't embarrass me offroad.
I've heard good things about Dunlop R/T's for this sort of application, any other brands/models? I was considering BFG Mud Terrain's but I fear they wouldn't be as good all around (onroad, snow, ice, etc) as a less aggressive tire. Does BFG still make the Trac Edge? Can you sipe Dunlop R/T's? What is the closest thing to the best Combination Tire with the edge given to onroad performance? Opinions given by people with years of experience in the field of offroad driving are greatly appreciated. Opinions given by Assholes with huge fucking chips on there shoulders will be ignored! Thank you... |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 08:26 pm: |
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couple years ago, i was in the same situation as you are in now.
so i went with BFG AT. they sucked on road and sucked off road.
then i went with dunlop RV. they also sucked on road and off road.
then i went with dunlop Mudrovers. they were much better off road but still sucked on road.
now i only get MTs. once you go out of the michelin "road" tires, your on road performance will suck no matter what you have.
so might as well get the MTs that dont' suck as much off road.  |
mongo
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 08:37 pm: |
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Hey Ho, depends on what kind of off-roading, my mta's suck ass in deep mud...I got stuck twice because they clog...by the way, the 4.11's and TT's rule. Now I can keep all 4 tires moving, very slow, in deep whale shit  ...I hate this tire thing, I can't find anything I like...
Frank |
Kim S (Roverine)
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 08:45 pm: |
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I have a bad enough compulsion for shoe shopping, let alone tires ...
Kim |
Mel A.
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 09:57 pm: |
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How about the Interco TrXus m/t tire. I've heard great things about them. Cheap tires too. You can get 235/85-16 for $105 each at 4wheelparts.com
My only worry is the 10-ply rating of the sidewall, you would have to air down a bunch to get them to "float." |
Ron
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 02:06 am: |
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RTs are already siped. BFG has stopped making the trac edge. Other companies make similar tires but I see no reason to not get RTs in your case. I am jealous of all the people who I go wheeling with who are on RTs. they do fine and don't have to swap tires like I do.
Frank, you need boggers. anythign will get clogged in clay type mud.
Ron |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 09:25 am: |
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JRoc, I recently went from Futura M/T's (noise was getting unbearable) and went with the Yoko Geolander AT Plus II (whew, what a name). These tires are GREAT on road. You never hear them, the ride is wonderfully smooth, and I even had them in a little mud this weekend and they did surprisingly well. Not an MT, but they cleaned out very well for an AT, and they have a pretty aggressive tread as far as AT's go. Plus they are reasonably priced. I picked up my 285's for $110 each at my local Discount Tire shop. They are definitely worth looking at. I'll be at the Safari if you want some first hand experience with them. |
JRoc
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 05:25 pm: |
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now i only get MTs. once you go out of the michelin "road" tires, your on road performance will suck no matter what you have
Ho, point well taken. I have experience in other area's (snowboarding, mountain biking, etc.) with trying to get the "best of both worlds". You usually end up with the worst of both worlds!!!
Thanx Ron, I thought the R/T's were already siped but wasn't sure. And I thought the Trac Edges were discontinued but also wasn't sure. I wonder why they were discontinued??? They seem to have had a big following.
Greg, I'll check into the Yoko's. I haven't heard anything about them but I was definately leaning towards a tire like they sound. Mostly need something that won't suck in rain, snow, ice, etc. too much. I'll probablly go with something like the Dunlop R/T's and later get a dedicated Mud Tire if need be.
Frank, Are the TT's front and back?
Mel, If I did go with a MT It'd probably be the BFG's, but thanx for the info.
Kim, I SHOULD do what women do when it comes to deciding between shoes, GET EM ALL!!! LOL
Thanx for the input guys/gals |
marvin
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
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JRoc,
I had the RTs and hated them. only 2 ply on the sides. killed 2 in ouray,CO last year. get the bfg AT. |
mongo
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:57 pm: |
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JRoc,
TT's front and rear...HD Axle's are next...when I rob a bank..
Rob,
I know...
Frank |
Ron
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:18 pm: |
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Trac edges have been replaced with a commmercial tire than is not as aggressive. The following was large only in the rover crowd.
Anything short of an SX you can hole on rocks. If you are doing serious rock crawling you would probably be best served with an MTR. Though to be fair no one around here that I know of has holed on RT offroad.
FWIW YMMV etc
Ron |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:40 pm: |
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had the RTs and hated them .... get the bfg AT
Hmmmmmmmmmm................
This is what I think of that!!!
-L |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 12:55 am: |
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leslie, i think marvin there was the only honest R/T user. |
Ron
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 02:21 am: |
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Ho thinks that cause he got the dunlop recreational vehicle tire
Ron |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 08:18 am: |
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LOL.....
Hey, put whatever tires on it you want. Get some 205/55 Potenzas, lol, it doesn't matter to me what you put on your Rover.... on mine, I'll keep R/Ts on it as long as I drive the thing....
-L |
JRoc
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 07:08 pm: |
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Hey Leslie, I expected alot more controversy on this topic. The more opinions I get the better. Isn't it funny how two people can put the exact same tire on the exact same truck and have totally opposite opinions about the tire??? LOL There are alot of variables though, Terrain, Conditions, Driving Styles, etc.
Anyway, I don't plan on doing alot of rock climbing so certain issues aren't as important to me as others. I do place emphasis on the performance in the Rain/Snow. This is one of the reasons I'm leaning towards a tire that either comes siped or can be siped.
I believe AT stands for All Terrain, what does RT stand for? Radial Terrain??? If so, does a RT tire usually have a more aggressive lug pattern than a AT? How do BFG Mud Radials perform in bad weather (snow/rain)? Do they suck in bad weather as much as Mud Terrains? Can they be siped? Once again, thanx all who are helping with this difficult decision. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 07:16 pm: |
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JRoc, one thing for sure is, if you buy a certain tire with a belief already that will kick ass, then it will surely kick ass, at least in your mind.
that's why we see the wide range of opinions on the same tire. |
eburrows
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 07:35 pm: |
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Ok, here's a slightly different spin on this old question:
Mud, Rain, Snow and Boulders are fine, but what about us out here in Sothern California, where we see very little of that. (Well except for the boulders.)
All I do, and really all I want to do, is drive arround in the desert washes. So, what is the best tire for sand and small, sharp rocks?
I run the BFG AT's now, but that balloned out sidewall makes me very nervous in lava fields. |
Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 08:58 pm: |
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Ho secretly covets Radial Rover R/T's. |
Rich Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 09:51 pm: |
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JRoc,
Check out this link on the RTs at Tire Rack:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/dunlop/du_rovrt.jsp
The overall ratings by owners is very high. They really are a well-balanced tire and (as I've said many times) are really quite good in the mud. The only "mudders" that I would choose over this tire might be the BFG MT, Super Swamper SSR or new Goodyear MTR. But I don't think any of these other tires would do as well in the snow as the Dunlop RT. It is the only one of the above tires that is RMA certified for "severe winter service".
Look at the center tread and siping and you will see why.
The RT is also the least expensive of the mudders and has the highest speed rating in the 245/75-16 size.
Dunlop RT $106/ea R-rated (105 mph)
Bridgestone Dueler MT $135/ea Q-rated (99 mph)
Goodyear MTR $142/ea P-rated (93 mph)
BFG MT (old style) $146/ea Q-rated (99 mph)
BFG MT K/M (new style) $156/ea Q-rated (99 mph)
Good Tire, Good Deal.
If you are looking for a Desert tire that is mainly for rocks and sand, I would avoid aggressive lugs, as they will dig you down into sand very fast. A "sticky" AT tread would be better, in a wider tire (for flotation on sand).
Although I think their "tri guard" sidewalls are overated, the BFG AT K/O ($143/ea, Q-rated) might be a good bet, but then so are your OEM Michelin XPC's, until you need to pay out the $$$ to replace them. A more affordable alternative is the Pirelli Scorpion AT ($103/ea, S-rated to 113 mph).
BFG once made some super-sticky "Moab Edition" MTs, and even a few ATs in D90 size (265/75-16) in the mid 90's. I saw some on a LRNA-owned D90 in Moab once, the rubber was almost as sticky as a hard compound racing tire (very sticky). However, they have been discontinued and any you find now would have "hardened" with age.
Good Luck in your choice, I am very happy with mine. |
JEspelien (Superj)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 06:26 pm: |
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I have to respectfully disagree. The Scorpion AT is the best of any of the tires mentioned for all around winter use without studs. The only thing better and then only noticeably on ice is a special purpose tire like the 4X4 Alpin, Scorpion Ice/snow or Blizzak. I was a big Michelin believer until the local university got a grant to examine winter tire performance for the Minnesota State patrol. They were looking for the best performing winter car tire for their Crown Vic squads, and Mustang interceptors. They were also looking for the best winter light truck tire for the Tahoes and Cherokees they use. A good friend of mine who is a faculty member at a local university and consults at the patrol's Vehicle Dynamics center was involved in all the testing. The test criteria were hill climb packed snow, hillclimb deep snow, braking distance PS, braking distance DS, braking distance ice, 0-30mph PS, 0-30mph DS, 0-30mph ice, skidpad PS, skidpad ice, lane change mph PS, lane change mph ice. My winter favorite at the time the Michelin LTX A/T got killed in everything but deep snow acceleration and deep snow hill climb. The Scorpion was superior to every tire in the test except for the specialized winter tires and it even beat all of those in the deep snow segments. The patrol now runs Scorpions on all of their SUVs and recommends it to every law enforcement agency in the state. They don't have to change them out for summer and they have an S speed rating. I will talk to my friend and see if the data is public information. If it is, I will post the link. After the tests when Scorpions suddenly started appearing on lots of SUVs at area ice races the sanctioning bodies had to ban the Scorpion from use in any class except those that specifically allow "winter tires". |
Jake Hartley (Jake)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 09:08 pm: |
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I agree with the Scorpion in ice and snow premise. I had a set on my DI and they performed very well. I had a problem with thinning sidewalls as they got older though. I have GoodYear MTs now and they pretty much suck ANYWHERE except MN farm mud. |
Rich Lee
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
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JEslelien,
Interesting post. It confirms my (inexperienced) ussumption about the Scorpion AT. Look at any purpose-built rally snow tire(of which Pirelli makes some of the best) and you will see that none of their treads look like the big-lugged MTs. That is why block-treaded "mudders" usually suck in the snow.
The only area where I think the Scorpion AT would fall short is in mud, and that is where the RT would be superior. I think the RT is still the best available "Mud & Snow" tire. However, If I were a So-Cal or Southwest rock/sand/snow driver, I would look seriously at the Scorpions.
Were the Dunlop RTs tested? If so, how did they do?
I take it all of these tests were on snow-covered pavement.
PS. The 235/70-16 Scorpion AT is a nice replacement for the stock disco tire. It is H-rated (133 mph - I wonder if it uses the ST casing in this size) and a bargain at $93 / ea |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 04:28 am: |
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While I don't have any personal expericene with the scorpion AT those that I know with them have had short tread life. This would be consistent with a soft compound tire which would be good on ice. They also do not have the best rep for mud traction and sidewall strength. I would be interesting to hear from others who have used them.
FWIW
Ron |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 07:09 am: |
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My neighbour has the Pirrelis on his little Suzuki. He doesn't do much off-roading but claims they're great for what he's done. He's had them about three years now and will likely replace them in the fall for the winter. They've held up great for him. A friend in the local Jeep club says they're not very good in the mud though. |
JRoc
| | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 05:04 pm: |
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Sounds like the Scorpion is the tire for snow and ice, but I'm looking for something a little different. I was more interested in a tire that could handle the mud while not sucking entirely in the snow and ice. Thanx a bunch for the info guys and keep it coming. |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 03:03 am: |
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Get RTs
Garrett has cooper STs and they seem similar to the RTs in tread design. He is on his second (bigger) set so it looks like he is happy.
Garrett?
Ron |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 08:35 am: |
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well time will tell i suppose. they are super quiet and ride nice on road. but more importantly how are they off road? well my old ones were the stock size and they were fine. used them about a dozen times here in the east. had no complaints. i have yet to 'use' the new 265.75's yet. of course on road performance is down in regards to speed and acceleration.....2 words you just shouldn't use when mentioning a discovery anyhow. but that in combination with the HEAVY NATO's really keeps my speed down. haha.
i will have a better idea after next weekend how i really feel about them. heading to Uhwarrie in NC and will do my best to beat up on the Coopers. i paid $129 a tire for the 265/75/16. that was a local place. but always make sure you get the LT tire and then chose your load rating. i went with a low rating of 'C' to hopefully improve my ride. also check on Coopers site. when you jump to some of the larger sizes you get a deeper tread. (going from a standard to an LT at least) mine is noticably deeper on the 265 compared to the 235.
i am sure if you would go either with a Dunlop or Cooper you will be happy. |
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