When and why did LR go to open knuckles?

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Author Message   Milan Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 01:41 pm:    I just (DOH!) found out that the new style RR and Disco II have open knuckles. They still have CV's though and now with rubber boots that can tear, instead of swivels that can leak. Does anybody know why, they did that? I like the open knuckle on my heep, so I can see if my UJ is busted, I guess the same could apply here. But I also like the closed knuckle design on my D1. What are the thoughts on one being better than the other? I think it's a toss up but wanted to hear other opinions. Thanks...   p m Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 01:42 pm:    Milan, i'd think you have better turning radius with an open knuckle. peter   Milan Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 01:47 pm:    That's what I thought too but I just learned you can improve the D1 turning radius by adjusting or removing the steering stops on the knucles. They are adjusted too far out from the factory. Last time I checked I had lot more room to go but I can really test this theory (according to a D90 guy) until I actually do it. Plus I don't think the DII has much better turning radius over D1. Does it? I think on front axles the UJ or the CV should be the limiting factors and neither takes well to sharp angles.   p m Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 03:25 pm:    Milan, even with the steering stops all the way out, you don't have a very sharp turning radius. but you're right, i don't think a D2 turns much better than a D1. I was disappointed more at the semi-floater rear in the D2, but it was purely "theoretical" since i don't plan on buying one anyways. I wonder if an open knuckle allows for quicker and easier axle swap; i could only tell it after seeing the axle or the diagram. peter   Milan Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 06:46 pm:    Hi Peter, Open knuckle typically requires you to pull the hub and spindle off to replace the shafts. On many new vehicles that utilize a unified bearing, you just pull the assembly and off you go. The conversion I have on my TJ allows me to pull the hub, bearings and spindle off without taking anything appart. I think the D1 also allows you to pull shafts, once you remove the spindle (I have not actually looked yet) and if D2 uses the same bearings, I imagine there would not be any difference, thus no real gain over the original. I like either but I hate change just for the sake of change.   p m Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 07:13 pm:    huh... can't say much, 'cause I am yet to blow the front axle, either rover or 44. the trailside repairs i've seen seem to be easier in the u-joint layout (but in both cases folks doing it weren't there for the first time, and the difference was between 20 and 40 min). peter   Milan Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 10:14 pm:    Since, we're having a conversation just by ourselves, I hope you don't mind another question. Did you say semifloating? They changed the rear as well and to a frigging SF design? Now I know for sure that I would not want a D2. One of the best things I like about the rover axles is that they are FF.   Alen Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 10:34 pm:    Milan, i tore mine up last Sunday when wheeling the Disco and the dealer would not cover it under warranty. Few good friends from Discoweb have put together some resources for me to take care of this issue myself. I f anyone has a manual for Disco2 CV pictorial that can email me pics i would really appreciate it.   Milan Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 02:19 am:    Ouch Alen. Why would they not cover a torn boot?   Ron Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 02:53 am:    The rear DII axle is actually full floating according to rover. However it is not as easy to remove as a DI. I will let you know how it goes next time I see one apart. In any case. The front went to "open" in 1995 with the NBS range rover and also all DIIs are "open" booted cvs. As far as turning radius if you turn the stops in all the way you actually run out of motion in the steering box at about the same time as the stock 235 70s hit the radius arms. It is actually pretty good. From the factory they seem to set them out pretty far on DIs, so much so that people with even 265 75s have not had to adjust to avoid rubbing the arms. Ron   AL Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 09:00 am:    Milan, they said its because of offroading,lol. In the midwest, dealers dont think Landrovers are made for offroading even they host outings they decline offroad damage and want $830.00 for replacment of boot and CV joint. Even though when i pulled in with the Disco and had alot of stares, they didnt like working on it for free. The Service advisor was very firm on whats covered and whats not.   Milan Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 10:17 am:    Thanks Ron. Let me know what the rear axle is like. All my friends have a D1 or D90, so I have no idea what the look like. I only found out because one of the D90 guys also bought a RR and showed me the open knuckle and he said D2 had them also. I will crawl under one at the dealer when I go there next time. Alen, That sounds like our Jeep dealerships. If something gets damaged off-road, it's not covered. God forbid if your Jeep is lifted. Then even unrelated items don't get covered. I find it's best to not modify until your warrant runs out but who can hold out that long.   Alen Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 11:11 am:    Milan, I knew it was coming from Landrover with the warranty crap. Thats why i decided to but toys without warranty. Check out my Jeep pictures in the Trails section under Attica 2.At least the dealer replaced my output shaft for my TC under warranty and did the recall for free,lol. I ended up taking my Disco 2 to a friends shop and had him pull it apart and send it out to a CV shop to take it apart and match boot size but go with better HD rubber and bearings. It cost me $180.00 for everything and he also redid the threading that was mushroomed up. Cheers. Alen   Drew Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 07:47 pm:    open knuckles on the land rovers are able to carry more weight   Milan Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 10:59 pm:    Alen, I'll check the pics. Our dealers are really picky but it does depend on where you go and how you get along with them. $180 does not sound that bad. I just read you rother post regarding this - $810 at the dealer, ouch. Then $180 is definitely good. Drew, Ok, if that's true, then that would be one benefit, I guess.   Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco) Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 12:27 am:    The rear DII axle is actually full floating according to rover. However it is not as easy to remove as a DI. I will let you know how it goes next time I see one apart. Who did you talk to? From what I can tell it's NOT FF. And to remove it you start by removing ONE bolt that's torqued to 360 ft/lb's. Nothing like the ol' FF land rover axles I long for in my DiscoII. Open knuckles are also "cheaper" to use for Land Rover. My guess is that's why they used them.