| Author |
Message |
    
tommy
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 01:33 pm: | 
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I want to buy the winch bumper but should
I get the airbag or non airbag version. Does
it really matter which one I get.
Tommy |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 03:03 pm: |
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Check the "for sale" posts. There is a SG winch bumper for sale in Faifax VA. I just bought some stuff from him...good guy! |
james
| | Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2002 - 05:22 pm: |
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DO NOT buy the airbag version...it sucks. The crush cans bend and it lowers your appraoch angle. |
Norm
| | Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
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James --
Couple of questions on the airbag version:
Is there any danger of the air bags deploying during a recovery?
How much difference is there in the approach angle of the air bag vs. non-air bag version?
Thanks,
Norm |
james
| | Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 02:32 pm: |
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Well, if you look at a picture of and ARB Airbag compatible bull bar, you'll notice that the winch is located lower in the front than the non-airbag...possibly several inches. I have the non-airbag bar and love it. It bolts to the frame using 6 bolts. I have taken some good hits to the bar from rocks at low speed and the bags have NOT ever gone off. I am not sure if the bags will deploy any sooner with the non-airbag version, but I do know that it is much easier to have the airbag version roll up or down with a mild hit. The nonairbag version offers you a stronger attachment to the frame(no crush cans), better approach angle, and in most cases is cheaper. I paid $600. |
Moe (Moe)
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 12:39 pm: |
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Tommy, go with the non air bag version. The air bag version has some history of twisting and it also places the winch too low. I bought the air bag version and ended up converting to a non air bag bar.
I think it is incorrect to say that the air bag version has a worse approach angle compared to the non-air bag bar. It might be the other way around. Either ARB bar is not known for their killer approach angles. |
Norm
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2002 - 04:44 am: |
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OK -- so I've seen the latest updates of the "out the window" hall of shame showing pictures of ARB bumpers in various states of distortion from hitting rocks, etc. I wish I knew the circumstances of each of these twists -- are these pictures supposed to demonstrate that the airbag version isn't strong enough to stand up to winch recoveries? As far as I know, ARB is the only airbag compatible winch bumper on the market.
My first priority is for the personal safety of my passengers and me. Therefore, I want the airbags on my truck to deploy reliably during a collision to (hopefully) minimize injuries. I couldn't care less what happens to the winch and the bull bar or the truck, for that matter, in a serious crash -- my neck and my family are worth much more than that. My medical deductible is about the same as the cost of a new winch & bumper so I'd rather spend the dough repairing or totalling the truck rather than dealing with pain, injuries and hospital bills.
The question is, will the non-airbag version allow the airbags to deploy reliably? (I am assuming it will not, otherwise there wouldn't be any need for an airbag version.)
My second priority is to have a winch bumper up to the task when I get stuck off-road. My question here is: Is it possible to install bolt-on braces to strengthen the airbag bumper for off-road use so that it's up to making recoveries, yet would be easily removed for highway use?
Thanks,
Norm |
Norm
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 01:44 pm: |
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Alright, in the tech section I've seen how people increase the rigidity of the airbag bumper. However, these are all permanent fixes might effect the function of the airbags -- seems to me they'd be better off buying the non airbag version in the first place.
What I want is to have a bolt-on fix that will give me the best of both worlds -- easily installable to increase rigidity off-road, easily removable to allow proper function of the airbags on the street.
From the "out the window" pics of twisted ARB airbag bumpers, I take it that these distortions occurred while winching and not from collisions, and that the problem is with the crush cans, correct?
Looking at my stock bumper, I envision fabricating some heavy steel brackets that would surround the crush cans and bolt directly onto the bumper and use the same frame bolts used to attach the bumper (and maybe extend the bracket to utilize the big hole in the frame directly under the radiator as a larger bolt point).
Is this feasible on the ARB bumper and has anyone tried it?
Thanks,
Norm |
Mongo
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 02:14 pm: |
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Hey Norm,
I have one of the twisted bumpers (red). Mine bent on a minor impact on a rock. The other is from coming down on it on a trials course. Neither are from winching. Here's something else to think about: If the crush cans are for providing a crumple zone on impact, how strong are they as winch supports? I basically welded a piece of stock along the crush cans to strenghten it. Not for impact, but for winching.
Frank |
Norm
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 03:20 pm: |
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Frank,
Since I don't have an ARB bumper yet, it's hard for me to figure a solution.
Do you think your bar stock could be bolted (instead of welded) along the crush cans and provide enough rigidity to withstand winching and minor off-road bumps?
My big thing is to have these braces removable so they don't interfere with airbag function on the highway.
Thanks,
Norm |
Ron Ward (Ronward)
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 03:30 pm: |
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As I understand it, you remove the SRS crush cans to install the non-air bag version. So the bag won't deploy in a collision because the of the crush cans. Now they may deploy due to the sudden impact, but not from any action of the missing crush cans.
Ron Ward |
Mongo
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 05:58 pm: |
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The air bags are designed to fire off in a 30 mph impact. The crush cans are there to prevnt them from firing at low speed. If you hit something on the highway, the last thing you'll have to worry about are the air bags, they inflate. I'll take a look to see if there's something that can be done to make it removable, but there's really no need. I'd buy the non-air bag version, and not worry about it...
Frank |
brian kluge
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 06:16 pm: |
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Speaking from the prespective of the DI there is no direct relationship between the crush cans and the SRS because there is no sensor(s) on the bumper. SRS is only a computer that measures deceleration and then decides whether to deploy the airbags or not based upon that input.
If you think about it, having an ARB with no crush cans will, in theory, actually cause the vehicle to deploy the airbags MORE OFTEN because you no longer have that extra two inches of crumple zone (energy release). But I would suspect that this is more of an acedemic arguement because of all of the variables that go into a collision.
My personal opinion is that the crush cans on the bumper are really to benefit the occupants of the other vehicle. I just hope and pray I never have a frontal crash with a Geo Metro or a Suzuki Swift. My ARB alone is about the size of one of those things. It's scary.
Drive safely,
Brian Kluge |
Norm
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 11:17 pm: |
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I have no idea what effect, if any, putting non-air bag bumper on a Disco would have on its airbag function (maybe an automotive engineer could explain it).
However, if I get into a crash, I don't want to be at the mercy of some insurance company or ambulance chasing plaintiff's attorney because I permanently disabled the crush cans on the bumper. Whether or not it has any physical effect on anything is irrelevant -- it's just the type of thing these parasites would latch on to and rake you over the coals with -- especially in front of a jury with a collective IQ just above room temperature.
Apparently, ARB and TJM have thought enough about this problem to spend significant time and money developing an airbag compatible version of their bumpers -- if only to comply with Australian regulations. If nothing else, it looks better in court to have a functional airbag compatible bumper on an airbag equipped vehicle.
My only problem with the airbag bumper is how to make it easily and temporarily strong enough to withstand off-road use. |
JRoc
| | Posted on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 11:42 pm: |
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As I understand it the ARB BullBar is designed to Knock the shit outta large animals that cross your path. I've heard that this was a problem for vehicles that got into a accident with a ARB equiped Land Rover. The ARB Bull Bar basically turned the Land Rover into a battering ram and was dangerous to other vehicles on the road. Therefore, ARB was forced to make a AirBag Version of there Bull Bar. It doesn't make your airbags less likely to go off, it creates a crumple zone for the other vehicles safety.
I've heard that in other parts of the world non-airbag versions of the arb Bull Bar are illegal. I'm not sure if this is true or not but until they force ARB to only make a airbag equiped version there isn't any decision to be made. Non-Airbag or Nothing! And if something gets in your way, bash it the fuck outta the way!!! |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 03:06 am: |
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ok Norm Nader
Ron |
Norm
| | Posted on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 03:37 am: |
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Well, hell, if I'm going to be driving a 4500 lb. 4X4 battering ram, the least I can do is mount an airbag compatable cattle catcher -- especially when I'm going to hop off the brake and stand on the gas at the moment of impact...
---Norm
Damn, for some reason lately I keep catching myself driving around with my hand on the parking brake lever...it must be contageous. |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 03:50 am: |
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LOL
Some day you will thank me
Ron |
Dee
| | Posted on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 08:15 pm: |
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Last Year I wanted to move my ABR Bull bar from my 88 RR to my 97 D1. I called ARBUSA and asked for there input, the RR was not ABS compatible but it looked like it could bolt on to the D1 in the same manner with no crush cans. I asked them if I installed the bumper with out the cans would affect deployment of the bag.
There response �The cans are designed to slow down the rate of impact this allows the bags to deploy fully before impact. With out the cans installed the bags would still deploy but a few mil seconds faster and by deploying faster your face might hit the bag before it is fully charged� FWIW |
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