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Author Message   ccdm3 Posted on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 09:37 pm:    I took my rover on it's first REAL off-road trip this weekend and I ran into a problem. When I was at an "o-shit" angle my weightless wheel spun freely while my weightbearing wheel sat motionless. Will a new dif. (like TT) fix this problem? How about on road performance? Explanations would be great! thanks chad   PerroneFord Posted on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 09:48 pm:    If you have a wheel in the air, only a locker will help you. The limited slip is "limited". It can help you in low traction situation but not no-traction situations. I'm sure others will chime in and give more technical explanations, but a locker is the solution to the problem you described. -P   ccdm3 Posted on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 10:13 pm:    P-you can only put a limited slip in the front...right? Is detroit rear/TT front the ideal setup?   PerroneFord Posted on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 10:24 pm:    Not true. If you put a locker in the front, you need to be able to turn it off. The ARB is one example of a locker that can be installed in the front. Others include the KAM, Maxi-Drive, and McNamara. I don't think there is such a thing as an "ideal" setup. Each setup has advantages and drawbacks. I felt the Detroit/TT combo was best for my needs. Others feel that selectable lockers on both ends better suit their needs. However, if you spend a lot of time in the rocks lifting tires, you may want to look at locking both ends. Most of my wheeling is spent in sand and mud so the locker in the back and the TT up front are well suited to my needs. I suggest you search the archives as there have been numerous conversations about lockers in the past. I am sure it will answer any questions you may have. -P   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 11:10 pm:    ARB   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 08:43 am:    Phillip , how many ARBs have you run ? Kyle   Roger Fastring Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 11:03 am:    Anyone have the KAM or Maxi-drive or McNamara or whatever? (Only hear of TT, ARB and Detroit)   PerroneFord Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 11:46 am:    I know several with the McNamaras and they can't stop raving about them. There are a few aussies I speak to regularly with the Maxi-Drives who swear by them. I don't know anyone running the KAM. Both seem to be quite a bit stronger than the TT which has warning against running them with tires larger than 33". -P   Marc Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 12:34 pm:    Perrone, how bout some links for the McNamarra/KAM/Maxi-Drive vendors and/or mfgs.   Matt Milbrandt (95discovery) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 12:45 pm:    Quaife: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/quaife/ Matt   Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 12:45 pm:    http://www.greatbasinrovers.com/catset.html   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 01:14 pm:    perrone, but then, people rave about the dunlop RTs. LOL ahh, also, they have to rave, they paid so much money!   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 01:16 pm:    -L   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 01:32 pm:    Phillip ? Kyle   PerroneFord Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 01:37 pm:    Actually, the prices on that Maxi Drives and the Macs isn't that bad. In fact, when I checked into installing Maxis, it wasn't any more than doing the ARB but the install was trickier. A friend of mine in Tampa with a D90 has already bought his Macs directly from Australia, and paid $1300 each. Considering that includes the housing, the carrier, the gears, etc. all setup and ready to go, I'd say that's a pretty fair price. He can then sell of his old third members in their entirety for maybe $400 each. That brings the total cost down to ARB prices with a MUCH stronger setup. -P   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 01:49 pm:    Well how do ya know its a MUCH stronger setup Perroney ? I mean , have you personally owned either ? Had them apart ? Worked ona friends ? Gotta be some hard reason for you making that statement..... Kyle   PerroneFord Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 01:54 pm:    No Kyle, I'm just a poseur. I really don't even own a Rover. I just borrow a friends and pose in front of it for internet pics. Anyone who wants REAL info should pop an email over to Kyle or Bill Davis (Great Basin Rovers) or Ian Aschcroft and ask about the advantages of Hypoid diffs. -P   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 01:57 pm:    Hmmm , so I get a sarcastic answer instead of you enlightening me on your experience with these diffs ? Hmmmm , now I can translate that as you making up for a lack of knowledge but I would never wanna do sucha thing. By the way , did you install your diffs ? Kyle   PerroneFord Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 02:50 pm:    Kyle, My sarcastic answer was offered in the true spirit of the Discoweb. You didn't like it? And of course, I have absolutely no knowledge of differentials, gears, axles, or anything else related to the drivetrain. I've just read about it in magazines and seen pictures on the internet. And no, I did not setup my own diffs. I bought gear marking compound and played with a spare 4.0/4.6 diff I had in the garage. But when it came time to play with my own $500 Detroit and gears, I decided to let Great Basin do it. I am very happy with the service I got and the price was very fair. In fact, Bill set them up for less money than it would have cost me to buy my dial caliper and stand. So yes, I installed my diff, as a complete third member. But no, I didn't setup the carrier or the gears. -P   Hank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 02:59 pm:    ccdm3, I recently installed a tt in front and dl in the rear. The tt in the front makes up for some of the wonder of my lift but also has a tendancy to pull when you let off the throttle during a high speed turn. (ex. turning on an overpass at 55) The dl seems to bother everyone that rides with me when it reingages after a tight turn on dry pavement. Offroad it has done everything I have asked it to do...well almost everything.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 03:34 pm:    So you are reading "Advertisments" and then passing them on to this board as gospel... You got anything on Amway products for me ? Kyle   PerroneFord Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 03:39 pm:    Amway, Amsoil.. same stuff right? Hey I'm not passing anything along as Gospel. I clearly stated what I use in my truck and what my plans are. I also clearly stated that I know some other folk running other diffs and how they feel about them. Just because you like ARBs, you don't have to knock my Detroit!   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 03:41 pm:    lol , dont get me started. I am still waiting on Phillip there to share his ARB experience... Kyle   Curtis Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:16 pm:    Kyle likes ARB's? I must have been snoozing. If that is the (pssssssssst) case then I will have to (hissssssss) ask why. I have always seen ARB's as problematic. Just to qualify myself: I have never installed a diff, but I have grenaded a couple. I also make it a habit not to read magazines. I do watch what happens on the (hissssssss) trails and sometimes I do not hear the proper "pssssst" sound when the switch is thrown. hissssssss, Curtis   PerroneFord Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:21 pm:    You really need to look into your flatulence problem... -P   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:30 pm:    sounds like Curtis is a clackety clack choo-choo train aficionado...hehehe   Curtis Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:43 pm:    Perrone, As a man who seems to have an answer for everything, do you mind if I come fart at your pad? Maybe you can help me out. Curtis   Bruce Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:53 pm:    Perrone, Guess what, your first post about locker as the only solution is not really true. I have TT front and back and have had two wheels freewheeling and have locked down and walked the rig out. Simply use the brake to actuate and you are locked. Mike Bauer helped me discover this one afternoon as I climbed an off camber hill, front-r/rear-l, in the air. No problems. It was fantastic.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:57 pm:    Be carefull with that brake pedal...... Kyle   PerroneFord Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:59 pm:    Bruce, Yes you can use the brakes to help out a true-trac or any other torsen diff. The Hummer guys make a big deal about this all the time. However, there are times you really don't want to be standing on the brake trying to free yourself, like in deep sand or anywhere else momentum is required. I thought quite hard about doing a TT/TT setup on the truck but ended up going for the TT/DL setup instead because I didn't want to have to BTM (Brake Throttle Modulate) when I started lifting wheels. I'm glad you like the truetracs. I've been trying to convince mike to get some traction diffs for over a year. -P   Curtis Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 05:20 pm:    Bruce, Wanna make it even better? I am running a TT in the rear only in a D2. With ETC/CDL/TT Rear, I get little to no wheel slip on either axle. I have a video I am about to post to my site showing me climbing a very steep and rough incline in Lockhart Basin (Moab) this last weekend. You can see the front wheels popping up one at a time and no spinning at all. I think you see the right wheel rise twice and the left one on the climb. No slip, no chirp, no problem. Of course, this is with ETC. While I do not think ETC is a panacea in itself, it sure helps to engage the TT. ETC gets confused when it has four wheels to deal with. Reduce that to 1.5 and it is nice. Curtis   JB Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:06 pm:    With a 10 spline DT locker would the weakest point be the axle shaft ? And when this breaks how often does it spell death for the locker as well. I can get cheap 10 spline shafts and figure it would be more cost efficient - for me - to just replace the shafts if/when they break than upgrade eveything to 24 spline..and replace tose shafts for more $$ when they break. This is allprovided the locker doesn't explode everytime a shaft breaks. Does it?? ideas, opinions, flames   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:16 pm:    Kyle, Phillip doesn't seem to be answering, so why don't you. How many ARBs have you had on your truck? And all of them blew? Everyone and their dog goes on about how weak ARBs are but I have yet to see one go on the trail. Granted, I'm not in the woods every weekend but I've been out enough to see standard diffs blow repeatedly, as well as driveshafts, axles, and transmisions. I would think if ARBs were as weak as some claim, I'd at least have seen one problem.   Curtis Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:27 pm:    niall, If you have been out in the woods long enough to see regular diffs, driveshafts, halfshafts, and trannys blow, but never seen an ARB fail to engage then I might suggest that you have not wheeled with many people who have ARB's. I personally think that the ARB diff is sound. The problem tends to be with the compressor and lines. Much of this is probably install issues, but who needs the hassle? Curtis Curtis   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:28 pm:    niall, you just had to be there. my arb went south. right in front of kyle. : ( actually, kyle's witnessed many ARBs going south. some were very loud, some were quiet.   Mel A. Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:45 pm:    JB, It would be wise to upgrade to 24-spline heavy-duty shafts first. Why spend your money twice? Discount Rovers carries Ashcroft HD shafts for $300. I have heard that ARB lockers can take shaft breakage and still work. I'm not sure about TT's or DL's. I have HD shafts on my Disco as well as a rear TT, the combination is great for mudding and hill climbing. I never worry about shaft breakage now.   michel Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 07:07 pm:    Maybe kyle is fucking with our shit...my winch had an issue once and the fucker was there!!! What are the odds of that? ummm Michel   Milan Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 07:42 pm:    Hey Curtis, Thanks for the post regarding TT and ETC. I mentioned a short while ago that I think these two traction aids make for a very good combo - better than braking by foot. Reason being that ETC only brakes the one wheel as opposed to both. On the other hand I still prefer to not use the brake and have an option to lock up fully. When is that Electrac coming out? Darn!...   Wayne Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 08:28 pm:    I have run both the ARB,s and the Maxi-drives in our vehicles, the ARB's are fantastic lockers, hte only draw-back is finding a strong enough set of axles. This problem becomes costly once the locker has been installed. The Maxi-drives are as strong if not stronger and come with stronger axles. They also tube and laminate the front diff housing for additional strength, which most of us Aussies find necessary. I just ordered a set for my Discovery, but I'm swapping a set of 86 Range Rover Diffs for the Discovery ones as the set-up is a bit stonger.   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 10:30 pm:    Curtis, it's true that the majority of people I wheel with don't have lockers but all the rallies I've been to have had a number of people with ARB lockers. My point is not that they are the pinnacle of diff lock technology, but people go on about them like they're as likely to break as series rover half shafts and that is pure BS. I also don't think it's fair to blame poor installation on the diff design. Most of the problems (not all) that I've heard of have been due to poorly routed air lines.   mongo Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 11:07 pm:    hey kids, i'm running with TT's in the front and rear. i like 'em. i have 2001 d2 and it's an awesome combo...haven't come across anything to stop me yet..hanged wheels' in the air and with common sense got through it all...haven't had arb locker, but i've never needed one...curtis, you've seen my rig, it's definetly not a poser... frank   Curtis Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 11:31 pm:    Frank is da man. I would say his D2 is easily king of the hill right now. Frank, I will be getting the TT up front soon. I am still just blown away at what just the rear does with CDL/ETC. It is mind boggling to watch that front open diff turn the raised wheel at the same rate as the rest. It hasn't quite sunk in why. I will try to get the video up on my site tonight. Curtis   Ron Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 04:16 am:    10 spline detroit is basically crazy. Of the broken axles with detroits in rovers I have heard of I would say 80% of the time the detroit eats it. I have not heard of a TT failure with axle breakage or otherwise, and other than o-ring or line failure I have not heard of an ARB eating it. "like they're as likely to break as series rover half shafts and that is pure BS." Ha, I have heard more psssssssssstttttt than I have heard booms, but thats me. And I like Perrone am a Poseur (I can't even spell poseur so I must be one). Setting up diffs is not hard, just time consuming. I had a real issue with mine but I got through it, just don't accept something you know is wrong. dial indicators are cheap. dial indicator w/ base (good one) $50 (cheap) $13 1/4 NPT tap $7 7/16th drill bit $8 $65, figure $5 for some prussian blue and a couple bucks for some RTV to DIY an airlocker assuming you are not pressing off the old bearings danas are a bit scary but almost no rover person will be dealing with them. Now if you want to talk fun how about some 1 ton axle swaps. Ron   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 10:23 am:    How many have I seen fail ? Hmmmm , let me think for a moment here... Well , at one time or another,,,,every single one of the guys that have one that I know. Including the one truck that we have with ARBs in it... Hows that ? Sure its never a real serious deal but not working is not working. I dont go out in the woods to work on the truck. I can do that shit at home... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 10:40 am:    ok ARB fans, i'll make sure my compressor and lines are in bomb proof shape before i go wheeling with kyle. then i can later say that mine has been just fine. LOL   Milan Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 10:46 am:    If you brake an axle, the TT may get damaged just like any other diff. We had one break one of it's worm gears when the axle snapped. I would think (think being the key word here) that the 10-spline axles will be less likely to snap (if you don't use the brake much to modulate the TT) with the TT than a full locker. But when they do break, they may take the TT with it - just like they would an open diff or a locker. Many a time luck plays a big role in whether the carrier holds up to broken axle shaft or not.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 10:50 am:    Milan I have broken two with the TT and it survived just fine.... Kyle   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 10:59 am:    Ya know Ron, just runnin' through my head, I'm not coming up w/ any.... the Series half-shafts that I've seen go have all been in non-wheelin' situations.... like, pulling out of the driveway then snap! It's usually accumulated stress, it finally just gives up the ghost. Oh, isn't the Salisbury set up like the Dana? -L   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:07 am:    And Findlay ? "An issue" ?????? Is that how we are classifying that ? Hmmmmmmm,,,,,,LOL Kyle   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 11:44 am:    Niall ? Nothing further to add from your ARB experience ? Kyle   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 01:21 pm:    Well what do you want me to add? So you've had friend's who's ARBs have failed. I haven't had the same experience. Now, I only know about 9 people with front and rear ARBs who I wheel with a couple times a year. I know about three with Detroits. I have not witnessed any of them fail yet. Most of the people I wheel with regularly have only open diffs. I'm certainly not suggesting that I have a lot of experience with lockers (after all, I've only been off-roading for about three and a half years), nor am I suggesting that you don't know a lot about the subject. I was just trying to get you to explain the reasons for your point of view. You seems to be extremely knowledgable on a lot of subjects here but I wish you'd use that knowledge and experience more constructively. Intentionally or not, it seems that a good many of your posts simply criticize other's advice or equipement without offering any helpfull info afterwards. I think all DiscoWeb members would be better served if those of us who lack the experience and expertise of others were educated rather than just knocked down and made fun of. I appologise if you think I'm out of line here but that is the way I feel.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 01:32 pm:    Out of line ? No , not at all. But like Philip here . Most that praise them havnt really used them for any amount of time. ARBs and the system that supports them are unreliable. What do I base that on ? I base in on numerous failures that werent on trails runs in a fun park or right around the corner. If you dont mind having to fix little dumb ass things about them I suppose they are great.... As I said , I preffer not to go to the trail and work on my truck. And Nial , lets face it , no mater how I come acrost , if I am down on a product that you are running you arent gonna like what I have to say.... Kyle   p m Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 02:00 pm:    if I am down on a product that you are running you arent gonna like what I have to say.... LOL C'mon Kyle, every time i look at the poor rangie, the only traction aid that would get it home if it snaps a stock axle is an ARB. that's probably the only reason to get one that i can think of. but to hear the damn pump buzzin around would drive me nuts peter   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 02:53 pm:    Is there any way to make a mechanical linkage to operate ARBs adn would that make them more reliable in your opinion? I just can't see how ARBs would be less reliable than any other hydraulic system. What about upgrading the air lines? I know a lot of people use a quickair II (?) instead of the ARB compressor.   Dee Cantrell (Disco_Dad) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 03:27 pm:    I had ARB's on a Toy many years ago, I used SS Fuel line to plumb then SS brake hoses to attach to the lockers. I machined all the fittings myself. I too aggree with PM the pump was too much noise, I might do the same setup in my money pit but use an N2 bottle to source the air.   Ron Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 03:32 pm:    Yes Leslie Salisbury is a dana 60, interesting compared a rover diff which is about as easy as it gets. And you are right, its rarely in high stress situations that the series axles snap, usually just pulling out at a corner. Though sometimes they go on the trail. Ron   Milan Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 06:22 pm:    Nial, The ARB's cannot be retrofitted with a mechanical linkage. Also, they fail because even if you have them installed right, the seal will go one day because they are not oil proof but oil resistant. This means the oil does eat them away albeit slowly. I think that hard usage adds a slew of other issues like loosening of lines, failing of switches or solenoids and because of so many failure points in the system it makes the locker seem less reliable. To me, it's just like anything else - if you add more components, you have to maintain them every now and then. Check and tighten the line connections, wires, etc. That's why I like the simple stuff like TT. No additional componentry, no additional maintenance. Simple, more reliable operation. The mechanical lockers are also more reliable because they are typically simpler but even they can fail if the cable or electrical or vacuum solenoid fails. Kyle, Are you saying the backlash from a broken shaft can kill a DL or an ARB but won't damage the TT? I don't dispute your claim but I wonder if it is luck or if it is because bigger diffs have a bigger carrier with larger and/or more worms. I know the POS D35 that I saw break has 2 worms and I believe the LR diff has 3 and my D44 4.   p m Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 06:31 pm:    Milan, the reason is probably that a Detroit will (re)engage rather violently when an axle snaps (you can't just keep your foot on the throttle forever to keep it locked). The parts in a TT are always engaged (save for a very little play), and it is much less likely for it to fail when that happens. peter   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 06:36 pm:    Milan & Kyle - I understand and generally agree with your points of "keep it simple, stupid". However, we are already driving relatively complex vehicles. If we all truly wanted to exercise the "KISS" principle, we'd be in a Series Rover, an FJ40, a Willys, the local box car derby, etc. Of course, one might say "yes the Disco is complex, so why add to it?"....the argument goes on & on...to each his own.   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 07:27 pm:    Well said Blue. About the Detroits blowing when you snap an axle - I've seen this mentioned a lot. So what happens when you're on a high traction surface like asphalt and then hit some black ice with one wheel. I suspect the effect would be basicaly identical to blowing an axle. Do you blow your Detroit everytime traction gets patchy on winter roads? Is this problem as bad as people lead you to believe or is it as overstated as ARBs weakness ;-)   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 07:32 pm:    what happens? clackety clackety clack clack clack   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 07:48 pm:    before the detroit goes clackety clak clak clak, the black ice will wupp your ass. do it like i do, drive over pizza.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 08:03 pm:    The Detroit doesnt fail from the Axle breaking (I know , I have destroyed one) it fails after. When you are driving around and you put it in park on a grade or on the trail and POP!!! Thats the end of that.... Kyle   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 08:05 pm:    Also , (I left that kind of open) I am fairly certain what breaks (Atleast it was in my case) is the unlocking mechanism , when the locker is broken , its broken locked and wont unlock.... Kyle   Moe (Moe) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 08:15 pm:    So if the unlocking mechansism broke, in a pinch could Ho still drive over pizza--or is it time to pull everything out and struggle home? Ho, you are making me hungry with all the pizza talk   niall forbes (Forbesn) Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 08:38 pm:    Who wants to bet when Ho makes pizza he uses lots of orange chedder so the thing looks yellow ;-)   p m Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2002 - 08:56 pm:    Niall, i think pizza's one of the things Ho doesn't make tri-tips, on the other hand... with some diff lube... peter   Moe (Moe) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:18 am:    Damn, that gourmet pizza (Pagliacci) sure was tasty last night. Thanks for planting the seed Ho, I couldn't resist Did anyone else order pizza last night?   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 10:26 am:    Dang, let me post it over here, too..... Check out how Ho found something better than sand-ladders..... -L   \Mike... (Mpeters) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:24 pm:    oh my god... LOL /mp   Kyle Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:43 pm:    Peters is in a drug induced haze right now , its hard to say how many little pizzas he is seeing... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:57 pm:    so kyle, you gonna join me in this pizza cutting business?   Kyle Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:03 pm:    lol , you know I am all about the cutting of the Pizza.... The goddamned Pizza delivery guy is screwing me currently... Kyle   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:05 pm:    lol.... -L   Kyle Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:09 pm:    Actually "DiscoLess" , could you move a few of those pies around to the rear tires. I cant seeem to get the rear paws up.... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:22 pm:    a couple subarus under there should do the trick.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:30 pm:    OUCH!!! 'Least I'm not Roverless..... lol..... -L   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:31 pm:    Oh.... Here's me on the way to work now..... -L   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:41 pm:    leslie, that's a bad ass little toy.   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:46 pm:    Yeah - except ya should have at least sprung for the WRX!! Bill   Milan Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 02:54 pm:    Blue, Well said. I never dispute the "to each his own". The problem is I'm the kind of guy who would like the Disco body, interior and ride with the Series I running gear technology. I am one of those that says: "If it's so complex already, why add more complexity". LOL - you had me picked. Anyway, I'm not aruguing anything, I just pinted out my view - mr. Simpleton's view. I like to have control over almost everything, so imagine how much struggle my day-to-day life is. LOL pm, I know where you're coming from, but my point was that I think when the axle snaps the backlash is so violent, that it snaps the worm gear. This, according to my theory is because the worm is jammed against the case (when power is applied) and then the axle snaps and the worm can't slip fast enough or has nowhere to go, so it cracks. So I guess in some situations it might slip and not break in other it does not slip and breaks. Luck of the draw IMHO.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:24 pm:    I wish I could have coughed up the extr $5k for the WRX, but..... sigh...... BUT! Ya know, this is essentially the same car.... with a bigger motor.... that can then take an aftermarket turbo.... heh heh.... I never went looking for their D-web equivelent until after we had bought them.... WOW! They've got a good board over there at i-club... They're dealing w/ wiring up PIAA or Hella lights, too! -L   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:31 pm:    Uh-oh....down the slippery slope to mods already Bill   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 03:47 pm:    I know, I know...... That's why the first Disco had to go, she wouldn't let me do any mods...... -L   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:52 am:    Leslie, I think that i was a wise move. It is amazing what info there is out there on mods. I just traded my POS Expedition for a Jetta VR6 wagon for my wife. Nice little ride. I searched a few sites and found out that I can take it from 174 HP to 330HP with some easy mods and about $1500. If I throw $5K into it I can pull 600 HP and 525 Ft/Lbs. of torque. I will bet similar results could come with the i. ...I do plan to wait until the warranty is out and the damn thing is paid for 'Til then I will be happy with it stock. Curtis   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 10:36 am:    Curtis.... Yeah, I agree.... post -warranty and pay-off. I'm not gonna go spending money on a turbocharger any time soon, the Rover habit is gonna be fed first. Stock, this car's a sweet driver anyway, and I can get away with calling it practical.... But, one day, bit by bit, I can eventually turn it into something downright scary... will do lights, tho', and maybe a little suspension work later on, better tires when these need replacing, and a little tuning at least.... won't do anything big yet, but eventually.... -L   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:01 pm:    hehe - I know what you mean. I am already looking into and H&R suspension kit, but I have work to do on the Rover that will probably last for the next year or so. I will say that it is a blast to hop into a little sports car after a week of daily driving the Rover...that is - unless I am out wheeling. I looked into the WRX, but I needed a little more room with two tykes in the house. Nice little car though. Enjoy! Curtis   p m Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:45 pm:    Curtis, you aren't putting the bored, stroked, and blown Olds Toronado's engine/transaxle in your VR6, are you? peter   Kyle Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 02:46 pm:    EEEEEK Toronado !!!! Kyle   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 03:26 pm:    Kyle, that was TORONADO, not TORNADO..... lol.... Well, the kids are almost always in the back of her OBS instead, it's usually just me to-n-from work. It's easily capable of picking up and hauling the clan if need be, tho', just a little scrunched if for a long trip... the OBS has a bit more room (unlike the crappy-Aspire, which didn't even have enough seatbelts to take the car seat in the back!). -L   Curtis Newkirk (Curtis) Posted on Friday, May 03, 2002 - 05:28 pm:    Damn Peter � that�s harsh. I doubt I am putting some clunky old GM crap in my fine German auto. It is bad enough that I have old, clunky GM crap in my Rover The mods I was speaking of for 330HP are simply an ECU reprogram and a single turbo. I think that is a Stage 1 or 1 & 2 � I forget. Stage five (600HP)involves twin turbos, con rods, cams, valves, valve springs, crank, clutch, pressure plate, and all kinds of other crap I am forgetting about. Believe it or not though - no NOS foggers. I think at that point they would melt the heads. Argh! Toronado. Blech�cough�cough! Curtis