| Author |
Message |
    
Brian Friend
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 11:57 pm: | 
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Dear Abby,
I Just installed my rear arb and got to try it out tonight. I chose some very sandy steep hills and tried them without the locker engaged and had no trouble then I tried it with the locker engaged and it seemed to make it more difficult. Do I loose some torque when I'm locked up? My conclusion on this very short test is that the locker actually made things a bit worse, almost like I had lost a bit of power and torque. The hill was not mogaly. Is it possible that the additional traction dug me into the dirt more than if I had not been locked in causing me to sink in more? Please help me understand. I am so confused.
Signed,
Locker Sadness |
abby (Abby)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 12:17 am: |
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dear locker sadness,
i am so glad you decided to openly ask this question here on discoweb. 
did you have the center diff locked?
if so, did you try again with rear ARB unlocked?
abby. |
Michael Villanueva (Michael)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 12:25 am: |
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Damn. Suddenly I am hearing John Prine singing... |
brian friend
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 12:31 am: |
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Dear Abby,
Did I say that this was me that tried this? What I meant to say was that it was a friend of mine that had these problems. And yes he was in dff lock and he did try it both locked and unlocked. Maybe my friend doesn't really know how to drive. Plus what was even worse for my friend was that there were some high school guys---one with a stock blazer and one with a toyota pu that got up the hill after stomping the crap out of the skinny pedal. My friend couldn't get up. He was very sad and asked if I could get advice for him.
signed
friend of locker sadness |
abby (Abby)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 12:45 am: |
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dear locker sadness.
your last name got me confused, friend of a friend, but yet still friend.
in theory, locker will be better than open.
but that's all in theory. there are many other variables in real life. and i just had to be there to analyze the situation and give him an answer.
how about this thought: ARB blows? ;)
tell your friend not to be so sad. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 10:41 am: |
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also if you have the little 235/85 tractor tires, you will be going nowhere-fast in sand. it just ain't there forte'
rd |
Abbys Daddy
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
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Was he stomping on the pedal, or going slow and steady? Low or High? Was terra firma beneath the sand, or was it all deep & loose? I've found that locked-traction can dig you in pretty quick on the deep, steep stuff whereas a little unlocked-slip and momentum can help you scoot through. A pic, or better yet, a video clip would help.
Tell your friend not to worry about the Blazer & Toyota...there's no glory in the stupid pedal, just simple momentum. |
brian friend
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 08:39 pm: |
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It was real loose sand and the more tries I made----I mean my friend made----the worse it got. I think you are right that the tires just dug in more than they would have with an unlocked rear end. My friend thought that the locker was the utopia of 4x4 land. Now he is thinking that he should spend more money on more cool stuff to show up the 16 year olds in the blazer and the toy. The cool thing about being inmature at 30 years old versis being 16 is that I can show off by spending lots more money and having much better toys. HHHMMM.....rubbing chin.......I think maybe........gps receiver? Yup..thats it...I will tell my friend to buy one of those and I will tell his wife to not be mad. Or....maybe I wont even tell her. I'll just say that it was part of the lockers. Yup that's it.
Thanks Abby and Abby Daddy. I'm sure my friend will now be signing his letters as "happily with toys" |
Mike B.
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 09:49 pm: |
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Practice, practice, practice. There is no substitue for experience.
Try lowering the pressue of your tires (maybe to 20 lbs or so). That is the biggest thing that you can do for sand. Next, try to keep up your momentum up a little more and go as straight as possible. These three things will help you to stay up on top of the sand rather than digging in. Also, try different gear selections. I'm guessing (without actually seeing the obstacle) that low range in Drive will be the best choice. Keep your engine RPMs up.
Lockers do not help in every situation. In soft sand, locked axles will be forcing all wheels to spin; thus helping them dig in more (bad). Unlocked your tires will have more of a chance to float of the top of the sand (good).
Thanks,
Mike B. |
abby (Abby)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 12:46 am: |
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I still think the ARB didn't work when he pushed the button. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:40 am: |
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i'double check the ARB the seals can be bad real fast if the installer pinched them during the install
also sand is a really strange medium
i'v watched mustang GT's with paddel wheels go all over sand dunes that a well set up 4x4 just got stuck on.
its all about overloading the traction
when you put down more power then the sand can handle it blows the sand out forming a hole that you then get stuck in
way lower tire presures and and a smooth foot on the gas will do wonders compared to jerky gas it type driving |
Abbys Daddy
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:02 am: |
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Push the ARB button while your friend has his ear near the diff - you'll hear it locking or unlocking. Also listen for the telltale hiss when you push the button to unlock.
Musky, please have your friends with the mustangs write to my little Abby - it sounds like they definitely have issues... |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
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I dunno...a mustang with paddles sounds like loads of fun...
It is true what yo say though. If you look at ATV's as an example: all good ATV's in the sand are 2X4's with paddles. I have both 2X and 4X ATV's and the 2X will blow the 4X away in the sand even with comparable tires. Mostly due to weight.
Again - the key is to float. Sand is more of a tire thing than a 4X capability thing.
Curtis |
p m
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 12:15 pm: |
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Curtis,
having bald tires also helps in sand, on a disco that is
the worst case scenario - pizza-cutter mudders, heavy truck with not enough horsepower, and low range. You get hosed in a few turns of a wheel
peter |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:04 pm: |
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Hmmm , you sure peter ???
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/kyle/img018.jpg
Kyle |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:33 pm: |
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Kyle:
You do that on purpose to make those of us who live in the hinterlands like Indiana feel inferior! Man, that looks like fun. Wish I lived somewhere near that kind of terrain.
Peace,
Paul |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:36 pm: |
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Yes well , we dont live there either. Thats a little over a 3K drive for us to relax on the beach....
Kyle |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:26 pm: |
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Kyle,
Damn thats a purdy shot!
That aint sand though and you know it. What is that? A dirty parking lot
Curtis |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:32 pm: |
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Not sand ? Man , thats Pismo Beach!! THe place where everyone told me I needed to air down and blah blah blah you will get stuck blah blah with those pizza cutters blah blah.....
Kyle |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 03:43 pm: |
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kyle, buddy... you play with fire and you gonna get burned eventually.
rd |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 03:55 pm: |
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Looks like hardpack to me Your tires did not even leave trenches.
Here is some beach sand for ya:
http://www.newkirks.net/images/hawaii/HTML/118-1826_img.htm
I saw no less than two J**ps and one Jimmy get stuck within 20 yards of leaving pavement on this beach. Those trenches get filled back in and are from rigs that made it. I had a rental J**p and there was no way in hell I was going to venture on that beach.
I wish I had some shots of some of our Utah sand dunes, but I was swearing and bitching too much to take shots. I think sand is the absolute worst medium to drive a Rover in...unless it is some of that Pismo beach hardpack
Curtis |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 04:22 pm: |
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Yeah, I tried to turn around in sand once, foolishly thinking my 4X4 could go through the sand-hey, I'd been through sandy stuff in the woods. It was pretty terrifying to think of embarrassingly having to find somebody to pull me out-right after my father and ex-wife had both told me not to do it.
Yes, I got out of it, but no, it didn't make me cocky enough to try again!
Paul |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 04:26 pm: |
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Well Paul , the whole Beach didnt fit into the frame of that one pic man , cmon , get a grip. Pismo Oceanic dunes , check it out. Shit is like powder with stuck vehicles all over it..
Rob , shuddup , I saw you at Kane Creek traail head (Captain air down)
Kyle |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 04:50 pm: |
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kyle... LOL
i blindly aired up the gas station because my justshit was too squirmy. i did 2 min each tire figuring it would do the trick. LOL
next day i borrowed mikes gage and fucking 90 psi per tire, i took that shit back down to 55psi !!!
rd |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 06:17 pm: |
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Kyle,
Calling that sand LOL you drove by bigger dunes comming into California
PM
Get some new tires on that Jeep and stop justifying the bald ones... |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:16 pm: |
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Well Matusov , I keep going with hard tires and people say "Yeah , you did that BUT , you shouldnt try this "blank" with hard tires or you will be fucked. SO , I go do that and I get the same damn thing.... Meanwhile I am looking at trip pics of sliced tires and popped beads all over this bitch... Perhaps they want me to join the club and submit my pics of popped beads and sliced side walls ? Maybe some pics of sand packed in the bead making it leak and need cleaning and remounting ? Naaaaa , I will stick to the non dramatic stuff... I am just not "EXTREEEEEME" enough to be suffering through flats at inoportune times....
Kyle |
p m
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:33 pm: |
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Kyle,
after listening to you for so long about rock hard tires, i feel very comfortable being lazy and not airing down before i hit the trai
but i know it's just an excuse.
last time in Pismo, i pulled out my bro stuck axle deep in sand, he was in JGC and me in the disco. I would expect the disco to sink faster, but it didn't; the only thing i can think of is rear tires having about 1/8" of thread left, and therefore not digging sand at all.
from my snow experience, if the trail is flat, stock bald michelins are better than mudders. if the trail is off camber, mudders will sink it faster, but keep from sliding off to the side.
if sand is off camber, man, i would take bald tires aired down to 20 over rock hard mudders any minute.
Anonymous, i can't believe you haven't seen my jeep in the garage. it's doing okay in rubber department
peter |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:58 pm: |
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Kyle,
It is good to hear that you do not air down. I thought I was alone. I do air down, but to me that means 25psi front and 30psi rear. I get shit from people all the time who are running less than 20. Some people don't seem to get it that there is a happy middle
I have found that the pressures I run conform to the ground well and float as good as any. To date, I have never popped a bead, dented a rim, or got some object stuck between the rim & bead. I have some shreds on my sidewalls,but nothing that has penetrated. My rig stays more stable at speed and off camber.
Thanks man, you have brought me out of the air down closet
Curtis |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 12:18 am: |
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curtis, it's all in the head.
and you know kyle has a hard head. LOL |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 01:26 pm: |
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LOL - I have always subscribed to the theory that if I needed lower pressure than 25/30 then I would air down at that point. Doing it prior to this just poses too much risk.
Curtis |
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