K&N Filter?

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Author Message   Greg French Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 07:49 am:    Thinking about swithchin ot one. Should I bother?   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:11 am:    For driving on the street and mall crawling; yes. But for offroad in dusty / sandy conditions; no. I have ran K&N filters on my Dodge and my DII. They have a great concept for increased airflow for power and mpg increase. But that increased airflow can bite you in the ass off road. I learned that lesson after two days driving the Uwharrie Dirt Road Safari. The increased airflow of the K&N allowed a fair amount of contaminants to pass by into the engine. So now I just keep a few FRAMs (discountrovers.com) on spare and replace at either 3750 miles or after a weekend in the dirt. So I wouldn't bother. My .02   Garrett #2 Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 09:34 am:    You can wash the K&N whenever you want and oil it again! After a weekend in the dirt, 3750 miles or whenever you feel like it. You only have to buy it once. The better you oil it the less dirt passes through. I like them so I say get one!   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 09:42 am:    Good point G2, That's why I kept it in the Dodge. But, I have read postings that repetitive oiling can damage a sensor that is farther down the air tube. If that sensor goes bad, some dealers will not honor the warranty due to K&N use. Paul   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 09:53 am:    That is true Paul. Very true. The KN supposedly can damage the MAF -- which is pretty expensive. I think there was a dealer directive explicitly telling them they could decline warranty to MAFs which had a KN filter in line. makes sure you filter any informational stuff you get here about this filter against the MAF / Warranty issue.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 09:58 am:    Bingo, give that fella a cigar.... excess oil is BAD! K&N is made for a race-track. Yes, it's washable/re-oilable, so if you're just zipping around on blacktop, it'd be great. But it DOES let more dust past, unless you over-oil it, which then causes a host of problems. There was a link to a story on a thread here awhile back about an African expedition with a bunch of new outfitted Rovers, all with K&Ns, and all of their engines preamturely died because of dirt ingestion. Wasn't a pretty story.... Keep a factory filter for off-road use, if you insist on using a K&N on the road. Me, I just used the factory filter.... FWIW.... -L   Randall Smith Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:12 am:    I own a mail order company that sells air filters for use in industial applications. You shouldn't assume that the K&N filter is less effective at stopping dust just because it has a much higher airflow rate. The filter media is very different from the stock paper media. This is what I like about the K&N: Wire screen constuction. Oil mixture is effective at holding both small and large particles. Add more oil for dusty applications. You don't throw in trash. Much less resistance to airflow(I have tested). Don't like about K&N: Probably is not as efficient on small particles as stock paper(I have not tested). Spending time to clean at some point. What I don't like about stock: LR part way over priced for what you get. Goes into the landfill. Very restrictive to airflow. If you want to clean the stock paper filter: Use a dusting brush vacuum attachment to clean it. Look at the attachments that came with your vacuum cleaner. If there is one that is about 3" round with horse hair or plastic brissles, this would be ideal for cleaning the filter. Randall   Greg French Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:30 am:    Ok. So what are the bennefits? I know more airflow supposedly means more HP and better mileage, but is it really enough of a difference to warrant buying one? I am mostly on the road, but like to test the truth of signs saying "Dead End" as often as I can. I went to Uwharri and am STILL cleaning dirt and dust out of every crack and crevass. I am almost ready to start cleaning out of the truck, too! Thanks, Greg   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:34 am:    Greg, Yes, they flow more air, but, the question is, does it help a Disco THAT much? No... you're driving a heavy brick, even if it does help, it's not a lot. Being able to reuse the filter, that's a bigger selling point for me, but, well.... I'd consider it in a road car, but not for an off-road vehicle. 'Least not in a Rover.... Randall, Even if adding more oil works for catching more dust, you're just killing the MAF. It's not worth it, IMHO.... -L   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:45 am:    After working in the Aerospace industry for the last 14 years, it is hard not to laugh at "performance enhancing" products. No matter what you do to your Rover, it is still a slow moving, heavy ass brick! Unless you combine the Tornado with the K&N. HA! LOL ={:~0}   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:52 am:    Tornado, Now there's a joke. Larry   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:01 am:    I had two MAF's go bad on me while using the K&N. They were both replaced under warranty at the time, this was a couple of years ago. I switched back to paper filters, and haven't had any problems since. I noticed no mpg or power increase with the K&N. Also, now being out of warranty, the few dollars saved by not having to buy a new filter every few months does not outweigh the risk of having to replace the MAF again.   Greg French Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 12:48 pm:    Thanks all. I'll keep stock.   ccdm3 Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:01 pm:    You guys are freaking me out!! I just spent a boatload on a K&N filter based on threads here, and now I'm hearing otherwise. Not to mention, I threw my old filter away...like a genius...so I can't swap when I hit the dirt. Are the issues with the filter that serious? Chad   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:06 pm:    Chad, We've bashed the K&N here a LOT! It's a wonder that it's not been pitched out of Kyle's Window yet.... A new paper filter is available at your local parts store, though, just pick one up before you go off-roading. -L   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:10 pm:    Hey Les , what do you see here ? http://www.discoweb.org/thewindow/af1.jpg Kyle   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:16 pm:    The power of suggestion..... Now, if I can only orchestrate this so that every registered D-webber sends $6 so I can get this '94 Discovery up the road from my parents'..... lol!! -L   gp (Garrett) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:18 pm:    i got one of those for christmas a few years back. it went into the trash, not out the window. and don't say "like you fagotty tires" kyle. but that chrome would like nice with my tires!! get a water hose near that AF1 and you can hydrolock!! haha   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:30 pm:    Oh those big ass white letters certainly would go well with some Chrome. And , a big ass Rainbow sticker.... Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:38 pm:    I bought the K&N, even noticed a mileage increase, albeit minimal. However, I am going to switch back to paper, simply because the K&N is a pain to clean. You have to clean it off, let it sit, and then oil it, let it sit, etc. I think the directions even say to let it air dry for hours. I have better things to do with my time. I am sure a lot of other people do, too. Tom   gp (Garrett) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:51 pm:    now come one kyle. we all know why you have that pony tail. a nice handle for your buddy billy. just rumors maybe. now get some white letters facing out on that white truck and be a man. haha. as for running paper filters. i am getting better MPG with my paper than with that contraption i use to have.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:58 pm:    Garret ,perhaps you can get some crayons and just make every other letter a different shade of the rainbow... Kill two birds with one stone... Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:03 pm:    shit. that's pretty funny. about on the level with rob's comment on the first time i went into a mens locker room feeling confused. i just can't compete with that. just can't. i need a drink! no not one with an umbrella in it.   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 05:17 pm:    I dont know, the MAF might be a problem on a disco2, but i have a disco1 and its running a kn for about 40k now...no maf problems, the gas mileage is better, there a tiny power gain, and the tube is absolutely clean, the kn is not letting anything through....and i do off-road quite a bit...so, maybe its people over-oiling the kn that causing the maf to go out???   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 05:25 pm:    I also have a K&N with no problems. The key is that a perfectly clean K&N will let dust through. It has to have some particles in the element to properly filter. You just clean it and let it get a little dirty before you off-road. I see as much dirt and sand as anyone else on this board and mine seems fine. LarryG   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 05:59 pm:    OK Mensa canidates, Dont oil the oulet side and it wont harm the MAF, Funny all other Makes use the K&N, If wide spread MAF dammage was occuring dont you think the product would be pulled, Only oil the inlet side   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 06:47 pm:    Must be selective attention going on here We can debate the merits of K&N till the cows come home, but the fact is -- at least for those of us with trucks still under warranty -- you use it, and your MAF goes bad, the dealer has the option of denying your warranty claim. Now, that is what I heard from the dealer. Anyone else with opposing or similar information?   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 06:48 pm:    Notice that the K&N box does not mentioned better filtration. Wonder why. Friend of a friend that had switched over a Dodge PU diesel to K&N checked his air intake system after a few months of dusty southern Colorado roads. Found dust downstream and was not too happy. Called up K&N and bitched. They refunded his money. Again - wonder why. If you live in a wet humid area, K&N is probably ok. If not, don't use them. Mark   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 06:58 pm:    For those experiencing heavy dust, etc. during offroad driving, has anyone ever considered running a Prefilter over the airbox inlet? I know this is a hot item for guys running dune-buggies, but I wonder if it would offer any help. As far as wondering why K&N refunded that guy's money...maybe it's customer service. There are a few companies in existance anywhere that will buy their product back if you are not happy with it or the results. Everbody else will argue with you tooth and nail about not installing it properly, not maintaining it properly, etc. Glad he got his money back!   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 07:02 pm:    Jason, We use that concept on my airplane. We have a fine mesh metal screen as a first line defense for particulates. Then 12 inches or so downstream we have a K&N installed as the final filter for an evironmental control system. However, we remove the K&N every 35 flight hours for cleaning and re-oiling. Paul   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:09 pm:    Jesus Christ , why over complicate such a simple and "Already taken care of" item ? The K&Ns are known not to filter properly and the "Gains" (If any gain at all) are minimal at best. Throw it in the garbage can and stick with what is simple and gets the job done... Its a FILTER , its primary job is to FILTER. Now that aint hard is it ? Kyle   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:30 pm:    paper filters are an inferior product comparing to a K&N....I've always run a K&N on all my cars and trucks and so does everyone i know none has ever had a MAF go out, with correct oiling the maf should not suck in oil, which sounds like dealer bs to begin with. My dealer even told me that my Bilstein shocks void any suspension work....The dealers look for any way out of working on your truck for free....   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 08:46 pm:    ok Anon , we are Comparing FILTERS , you saying the paper filters are an Inferior FILTER ? Fuck the MAF do you have any idea what dust and grit does to cylinder walls ? And what are you getting out of it ? Just a pain in the ass that you have to keep a can of cleaner and a can of oil around for... Pitch the paper filter when its done , throw in a new one and you are done with it.... K&N is fluff............ Kyle   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 09:57 pm:    Kyle, I've never seen my K&N let any dust and grit through...my intake tube is absolutely clean, I mean dont get me wrong for really sandy off-roading yes a paper filter would probably be the way to go, but for my purposes (driving across a farm or some mild mudding) a K&N is great...   Moe (Moe) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 10:15 pm:    I made a mistake of leaving a K&N in during an off road trip. It was unsettling how much dust made its way downstream of the 'filter'. I have since returned to paper filters.   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:50 pm:    Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it doen't exist, anon. I have never seen the Great Wall of China, but it's still sitting there. If the K&N works for you, that's great, stick with it. For me, two MAF's were killed while I ran correctly oiled and maintained K&N's. I switched back to paper, and there have been no problems since. Go figure. It was on a D1, too.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 01:07 am:    *   Kingfish (Kingfish) Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 08:01 am:    Why worry about maintaining a f'in filter? The disco requires all kinds of maintenance and the last thing I want to worry about is whether my air filter is properly cleaned and oiled. Wake up, people. You'll get no performance gains (only mental gains) in a disco. In a sports car, maybe 1/2 HP. I relace my filter at about 10k- 15k. It costs me about $10. Thats about $20 per year. I think I can live with that. And man, if a K&N lets more air in, well Einsteins, it's gonna let more dirt in too. Is that so f'n hard to understand?   muskyman Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 08:45 am:    K&N rock! they make more power in every application they sell a filter for...long since proven but the MAF sensor problem is real in all "hot wire" MAF applications BMW has a service bullitin out about it Subaru has a service bullitin out about it and I installed a aftermarket HKS hot wire that had a sticked on it saying that "oil impregnated air filters will damage and void product warrenty" every street racer around runs the K&N for the power gain in a Disco half a heart beat faster then slow is still slow so why bother? i'd say theres my .02 worth but at the cost of a MAF hot wire its worth more then .02   Kyle Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 10:14 am:    Musky , what I know about the K&N in a street car is that they burn real nice after a Nitrous pop.... I guess if it was cold outside that could be a plus....... kyle   Dee Cantrell (Disco_Dad) Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 02:31 pm:    All this for an Air filter LOL   Roverine Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 02:55 pm:    er-um,,, (mouse like voice) excuse me here, but I will chime in ... After inquiring about the K&N's awhile ago, (and the fact that I have enough to keep up with as it is) I just bought 4 paper air filters for roughly the same price as a K&N ... Whenever I do lots of dirt/sand dust for a couple of days or more, I just toss it, and throw a new one in. I know how valuable my mechnical opinions are here, so I thought I'd post this. ... Just trying to help ... Kim   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 03:11 pm:    That's the beauty of all this Kim. You can say whatever is on your mind. Paul converted back to paper guy   Brad Russell (Bradnc) Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 10:04 pm:    I'd like to see some solid figures on gas mileage increase, anyone that claims to have gotten an increase, bust out the numbers. If it pays for itself and u only drive on the road, then why not? So who has the numbers? Brad   Cal Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 02:14 am:    I went from 14 to 16 on my 96 and it stayed the same at 14 on a 94 I owned in the past. No noticeable power increase. I,m at an elevation of 5000 feet.   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 03:05 am:    As usual, anonymous has a good point...pass the ketchup...   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 09:20 pm:    First of all a K&N will do a lot more for a sports car than a 1/2 hp gain...it will give about 5 hp to a sports car and about 1 hp to a rover since it is a brick on wheels, but the 1 hp is still quite noticiable off-the-line (not racing wise of course but just personal satisfaction). I say dont pay attention to what the dealer says about the warrranty, anyone buy a disco to save money????? Keep your k&n oiled properly and the MAF wont give you any problems....and those of you reading this and who are running a K&N successfully please speak up....And no offense to anyone against K&N's i understand that every car is different and it could be just me....And to any math freaks no i cant provide numbers for the hp gain (just going through my estimations)....   Eugene Elin (Glex) Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:02 pm:    what is the part # for K&n air filter ,i have 99 disco1. -Eugene   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:08 pm:    Why, oh, why....... -L   Eugene Elin (Glex) Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:09 pm:    anyone knows the part #? thanks   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:23 pm:    Sure.... Just go to K&N's website, it'll tell you.... http://www.knfilters.com/ But, to save you the trouble.... 33-2737 FWIW.... -L   Eugene Elin (Glex) Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:25 pm:    Thanks very much....   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:42 pm:    Found at: http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/K&NFilters.html "Since Chris was in the desert he may been in a "sandy" rather than dusty environment. Sand particles are a lot bigger than dust particles. I'm not an expert like Jim C. and I don't have any lab tests, but the Land Rover list guys in Africa have reported that a (properly oiled) engine with a K&N will be shot after a couple weeks of driving in convoy on dusty roads. Land Rover list member Daniel from San Francisco who shipped his Land Rover to Africa for a safari heard many K&N horror stories while waiting for his engine to be rebuilt. He went from burning a quart of oil every 3,000 miles to burning a quart an HOUR in two weeks (driving in a convoy with other vehicles kicking up dust). On Land Rover trips in Northern California we do a lot of riving on logging roads and the big Cat tractors that make the roads grind the dirt in to fine baby powder like consistency. It is ugly to look under a K&N filter after a day of off roading on logging roads. I think K&N filters are fine for track days (or if you are leasing a car and don't care if the engine lasts more than 30,000 miles), but I will always pop the paper filter back in for the drive home from the track on a car I care about. With the Range Rover I always replace the paper air filter with another paper after I leave the pavement (and pop an oiled sponge in to the air horn). When I swap filters so I have a clean one for the drive home and bang the filter on the ground I am amazed how much dirt makes it past the oiled foam. A couple of other links at this address are worth reading. One found more dirt and eventually worse air flow than paper filters. - Mark