| Author |
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Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 03:52 pm: | 
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1996 Discovery SE. Ok, here are the symptoms: No longer starts on the first turn of the key, needs 2 or 3 times to get goin, turns over just fine. From around 1800-2000 rpm, hesitation in the engine, causes the car to jump then slow down, very inconsistant. This does not occur when rpm's are above 2000. No check engine light, the only warnings that I have been getting is a periodic "purge flow valve" fault. Any help is of course appreciated, and I would love to here from all of you with an idea! |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 11:27 pm: |
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any ideas? |
TimHudson
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 11:30 pm: |
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Have the same starting problem with my '96 Disco. Been to the dealer a total of 4 times and have spent about $3000US and the truck is still at the dealer. They are still not sure what is wrong. Would love to hear from other Disco owners with the same problem. |
Randall Smith
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 11:46 pm: |
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If the purge valve gets stuck in the open position it can cause problems simular to what you all discribe here. You might want to just unplug the electrical leads to the charcol canister purge valve. Drive it with the valve disconnected and see if anything changes.
Randall |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 12, 2002 - 08:15 pm: |
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any other ideas? I was under the impression that the purge valve released fumes back into the plenum. how could this cause my problems? |
Randall Smith
| | Posted on Monday, May 13, 2002 - 10:34 am: |
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Joshua
Now that I think about it: Plug the vacuum hose going to the purge valve, instead of just unplugging the elec leads.
If the valve is stuck open it will be a vacuum leak. It is supposed to open only at certain rpms. This may not be your problem but symptoms would be simular, and worth a try. You do not need the purge to operate the engine, it is merely an emmisions device.
Randall |
Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp)
| | Posted on Monday, May 13, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
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Joshua: Have you ruled out fuel pump problems? I had a similar problem (would take several attempts to get started and then run poorly). I checked my fuel pressure and it was extremely low (20psi instead of 37psi with ignition on and engine off). What was happening was that the pump was taking several times to build enough pressure to get the engine started (your situation sounds similar).
If you have a fuel pressure gauge, check the pressure with the ignition on engine off. It should be around 34-37psi (from LR manual). If not, you probably have a dead or dying pump. Mine was strange, in that everything would be fine for a while and then it didn't want to start. Then a couple of weeks ago, it deteriorated to the point where the engine just wasn't getting enough fuel to run well at all.
It's definitely worth it to at least check the pressure to make sure everything checks out ok. |
bryan
| | Posted on Monday, May 13, 2002 - 02:29 pm: |
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Joshua,
How many miles on your 96. The fuel pump on my 95 started going TU around 95K. Didn't go out completely, just required several cranks to get started then it ran fine. Bought a replacement pump from discountrovers.com, installed it myself (about 1 hour) and saved about $400-500 by not taking it to a dealer. No more problems. |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 02:31 pm: |
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the diso has ~85000 |
jerry quintana
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 04:00 pm: |
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mine has the same problem they say stepper motor and distributor 95 3.9 |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 05:07 pm: |
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stepper? I had not thought of that. Anyone else have experience with a failing stepper motor? |
Richard Bozeman
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 05:30 pm: |
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Check the idle air control valve, ie stepper motor. The failure of this can cause hard starts, no starts, fast idle or slow idle. It runs about 247.00 dealer. and you do not need the dealer to put it in for you. It requires a #2 torx and your fingers. You can find a lower price from wholesale. |
bryan
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 06:04 pm: |
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Joshua,
Try to clean the stepper first, if that doesn't work I believe there is a GM or NAPA part which works (check the archives and the faq). If that doesn't work I'd go with the fuel pump. I spent a few bucks and changed a lot of parts on mine (fuel filter, air filter, plugs, wires, cap and rotor, cleaned the stepper....most needed to be changed anyway) before I bought a new fuel pump. If you do an archive search, you'll come across a thread where someone mentions the useful life of a fuel pump is 90-100K....you're getting close. I was glad I was able to replace mine on my own terms, ie. in my garage on a Saturday morning, not while on the road during a rain/snow storm at 1:30 A.M. in the middle of BFE (did you ever see Deliverance?). I'm a firm believer in proactive vs. reactive maintenance, but that's just me. |
jerry quintana
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
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was just called by the dealer it was the stepper motor and i also had the #4 injector leaking. he said that the steper wouldnt even move and that the injector was causing the leakdown problem in the fuel system. works perfect now. |
Moe (Moe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 09:16 pm: |
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"Joshua,Try to clean the stepper first"
Josh is now looking for someone to clean the stepper motor for him. Apparently, the poor bugger is not that mobile and getting around on a bung leg. At this very moment a Seattle mission to Newcastle is in the planning and successful volunteers will recieve an 'invite' to play a round at the Newcastle golf course.
Josh, Saturday or Sunday morning? |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 12:05 am: |
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Well, after a struggle this evening to get home, I am leaning towards a failing fuel pump. The disco would not stop cutting in and out the whole way home, at all rpms this time. Any oppinions are appreciated at this point before I go blow ~600 dollars on a fuel pump! |
Moe (Moe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 12:19 am: |
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Order the pump tomorrow, change the fuel filter, and clean the stepper motor. I think you are right about it being the pump. Call tomorrow if things don't pan out. |
Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 10:37 am: |
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Joshua:
Rather than buy a pump right away, I'd stop by an autoparts store and get a fuel pressure gauge to check the pressure first. I bought mine at Sears for about $40 (Actron CP7818).
Checking the pressure is very simple:
Depressurize the fuel system: Start engine and remove the fuel pump fuse in the fuse box under the hood just behind the battery (15Amp fuse) The engine will stop running in about 10 seconds.
Turn off ignition.
Connect Fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail via the Schraeder fitting.
Replace fuse.
Turn on ignition, but don't start the car. According to the LR manual you should be getting about 34-37psi. If not, its highly likely that the fuel pump is dying. If you are getting good fuel pressure, then obviously the fuel pump is fine.
The stepper motor might be causing some problems, but I doubt that it is the main problem, since the stepper motor doesn't do anything once the engine is above idle. |
bryan
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:12 am: |
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Joshua,
Get a hold of Dee Cantrell or Nathan Crabtree at discountrovers.com. They had the best fuel pump price out there ($190 or so), be sure to order a couple of extra compression fittings (nuts and rings),they should be able to help you with this as well. My pump was delivered in about a week. You can do the job yourself, no problem. Pull up your carpet in the rear and you'll see a panel with 5-6 screws in it. Remove the screws, lift up on the panel and you'll see the pump. Check the electrical connection, that could be the source of your problem (doubtful though). Take the time to clean out all of the mud/sand/crap which has accumulated around the pump before you try to remove the pump (you don't want any of that to fall into the tank). Use a screwriver and a hammer to remove the black retaining ring around the base of the fuel pump, (put the blade of the screwdriver on one of the retaining ring "ribs" and hit the end of the screwdirver with the hammer). It will take a while, but it will loosen up. Before you remove the compression fittings, be sure to pull your fuel relay and start the disco and let it run until it dies to bleed off the fuel pressure (otherwise you'll have fuel all over the place). Disconnect your battery, then pull the fpump electrical connection and loosen the compression fittings. Pull the pump out slowly to avoid spilling excess fuel. Installation of new pump is just the reverse of the above procedure. Be sure to check for leaks around the fittings before you put everything back together again and make sure nothing (screws, tools, etc.) falls into the fuel tank while it's open. email me if you have any other questions |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 04:33 pm: |
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after doin a bit or research, I do not think the stepper motor is applicable on a gems equiped vehicle. Am I correct in saying this? |
Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 05:26 pm: |
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No. The GEMS vehicles have the stepper motor as well. The fuel injection system is essentially the same on pre-GEMS and GEMS vehicles. The stepper motor is in a different location, though.
That being said, I still doubt that the stepper motor is the main problem. Because the stepper motor is changing airflow at idle only, if you are having problems when the engine is above idle, I'd look to something else. |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 08:37 pm: |
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Well, after checking the fuel pressure, I have indeed concluded that the best guess is the fuel pump. At no load, it was reading 25psi, under load it would fall to 20psi. |
Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 08:49 am: |
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Joshua:
When you say no load, do you mean ignition on & engine off?
If so, 25psi is low. Replace pump. |
Joshua Weinstein (Untrakd)
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:31 am: |
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Well, thanks to everyone. Got the Fuel pump in tonight and everything went smoothly, whole deal took me around an hour. The rovers back and likes to run again! Once again, Thanks a lot for everyones help! |
Moe (Moe)
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 10:18 am: |
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Great, Josh. So we will see you next weekend for the HighRider trail? We need a second winch in the group, and I would like to see how the dual ARBs go on that entry point. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 02:38 am: |
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Do you get crappy millage if your pump is dying?? |
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