| Author |
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jmon
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:48 am: | 
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i am looking at upgrading my shocks..does anyone know anything about the ltr ome shocks or king or anything else? i do a lot of traveling in the disco in all kinds of terrain and i am finding that the ome shocks i had and the ranchos i have now are not cutting it...is there anything out there with multiple settings that is solid...also what is the price on something like this..any thoughts would be aprreciated...i have a 95 disco with a two inch lift..thanks |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:21 am: |
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The OME LTR shocks are not any longer than stock ones. I am really enjoying my Bilsteins but you are going to have to say what about your current shocks isn't adequate before anyone can help you further.
You are going to get a laundry list of questions from a shop like King, but they can build you anything you want, provided you've got the case. Expect to spend between $200 and $500 per shock with them.
From what I have seen, shocks have 3 ranges:
1. Crappy, which fits most stock shocks
2. Pretty good, which is Bilstein, OME, Rancho
3. Awesome, which is King, Carerra, Penske, etc.
Group 1 is under $40 each. Group 2 is $60-120 each. Group 3 is $150-$1k each. You pay your money and take your pick.
-P |
james
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:48 am: |
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In two weeks, my rancho's have broken twice. I'm giving them one more chance but I have a feeling they will break again. That's just what has happened to me.
James |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:10 am: |
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Well... They're ranchos. Put some Bilstein 7100s on there and report back.
-P |
spock
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:33 am: |
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aye aye Cap'n |
JMcD
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 11:51 am: |
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I love the bilsteins I put on mine. Good road manners. JMcD |
kent
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
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I have had Fox Shocks which I really liked. Currently run Sway Away, I love them. Before I installed them I was worried they would be too stiff. When charged with 200 psi of nitrogen it took all 220 pounds of my weight to get the shock to move an inch. Once on the vehicle they are incredible. If you ever run a top quality shock you will never again own a cheap set. |
Ron Repe
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 12:12 pm: |
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Hi, I'm new to discoweb and wow it's a great resource!
From what I've read it sounds like ranchos, bilsteins, and old man emus are all the same (#2 above "pretty good" shocks and in my price range). I've heard wonderful things about bilstein and ome, so I assume rancho is just as good. I was going to put ome's on my new land rover discovery but I guess I'll save some money and put ranchos on. Thanks for the tip.
-Ron Repe |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 12:16 pm: |
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No,
#2 above shows a "range" of shocks. The Ranchos are most certainly at the bottom of that range. Doesn't mean the Ranchos are necessarily bad, just not quite up to the build quality of some others like the Bilstein or OME, Koni, or some other brands.
#3 from above is also a range of shocks while you may expect to pay $350 for a king shock, you'd be looking at over $1k each for the Penske, in some cases $3k for their indycar shocks. |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
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Perrone, this is some of the most entertaining things about shocks that I heard.
Come to think of it, that's some real-world classification of shocks. No need to confuse people with lengths, valving, mounting, etc. Just tell the Billy Joe Bob the rover owner that a King is a hot shit, and he'd never know otherwise ('cause he sells his rover before the shocks go).
Now, Perrone, how does it sound to you - having to shell out big bucks for Kind shocks, and stop every 2 miles on the washboard and walk back to look for lost fasteners?
Meanwhile, you can come across a plain jane $15 shock made by Monroe, and never have a problem with it!
peter |
-P athetic
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 12:50 pm: |
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Yeah, ranchos are the same as bilstein, I drive a "Toyota Land Rover" and Perrone knows everything. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:00 pm: |
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i think, just because perrone states something is the best doesnt mean he is implying it is the best for that person, application must be considered too, or would you like perrone to spend his whole day evaluting the rover public's shocks needs.
rd |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:02 pm: |
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You guys are hilarious. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:02 pm: |
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I'm pleased with my 9010 & 9005 rancho's so far. My biggest complaint is that they don't come with the 12mm sleeves in the kit that I need for my disco II. Although, they can be ordered for $1 each shock. However, I've only had mine on for a couple of months and I haven't jumped off of any 10 foot buildings or anything yet, so I'm sure that's why they haven't broken. I must not drive as studly as those that have broken 2 in a week or was it 3 in an hour. Can't remember, since I drive with Rancho's instead of OME, OEM or Billysting??//........ I must be a little retarded....... |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:03 pm: |
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sure, Rob, Perrone's classification is price-based only.
I still have a difficulty imagining a BMW on a set of Rancho shocks...
peter |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:07 pm: |
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Greg,
one visit to Bilstein facility in Poway, CA, is worth a thousand pages of sales literature.
not to knock other stuff, I am very pleased with OEM woodheard on my range rover.
peter |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:18 pm: |
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Well, I just think it is funny how much everyone has an opinion on one brand and suddenly everything else is below it. I mean, if we were all so concerned about product quality, longevity, reliability, etc...... Why buy a Land Rover????? Think about it. |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:29 pm: |
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not necessarily everything else is below it.
it's just the price of the part may not reflect the part's quality, or how it fits the purpose.
that's why classification of shocks according to price looks funny.
You may come across the kit that has the same springs and shocks for a disco or rangie - but the two vehicles are very different in their dynamics. E.g., Bilstein shocks (that I have on my disco and jeep) would have been super stiff for the rangie.
OMEs I had once on the Disco were too soft, but they would have been just right for the rangie.
I don't have an opinion on Rancho shocks; I have two front ones that I may give a shot to on the rangie. Since the stock Woodheads work just fine on it, I believe the cheap Monroes may work as well, and their choice is by an order of magnitude wider. I have seen King shocks to fail, so I am not impressed by them at all.
peter |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:29 pm: |
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p.m.
Tell us about your visit to Bilstein. I'd certainly like to hear about what you saw. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:29 pm: |
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p.m.
Tell us about your visit to Bilstein. I'd certainly like to hear about what you saw. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:33 pm: |
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Greg, with all due respect, you're missing the point -
Rovers, like just about everything else, will last forever if you know how to take care of them. One way of taking care of them is to replace parts (i.e. shocks) with high-quality parts that will more or less last forever. The Rover is the sum of all it's parts....shitty parts, shitty rover....high quality parts, high quality rover.
If you shrug off your responsibility to upkeep your Rover, then it will be a poor quality, short-lived, unreliable hunk of junk.
think entropy.... |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 01:42 pm: |
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Bulegill, you missed my point. The stock rovers are being produced with faulty parts. Why do you think you have to take them back to the dealer consistently and the dealer was already expecting you due to the fact that so many others have had the same problem. My point was that Rover's in general seem to have lots of issues compared to other vehicles. I had to have 4 or 5 items replaced/fixed within a few months of purchase on my 2001 disco. None of these were typical wear/tear items either. In fact, there are still a few items that need to be fixed. If you read this board long enough, you will see a pattern in PROBLEMS with rovers. I love mine and that's why I tolerate it. But, it seems as though the company gets away with poor quality because they are "Land Rover" and everyone just tolerates the fact that you are gonna have problems, parts shortages, quirky issues that will come up, high prices, low availability of aftermarket items, etc.
My point was to say that everyone buys a vehicle that appears to not be of the best quality on an accross the board basis, and then squable over the "best of the best" when it comes to valve stem covers........ Kidding of course on the valve stem covers, but hopefully you get the point this go round.
Anyway, too many times do I hear advice given on the board that one item is crap and another item is king because that is the item the particular advice giver uses.
If you want to prove the point that Rancho is not as good as Bilstein or OME, then find an independent lab study somewhere that compares failure rates, etc. Otherwise, it is basically opinion based on two peoples bad experience with no mention of the hundreds of good experiences.
Cheers, Greg |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:08 pm: |
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one item is crap and another item is king because that is the item the particular
advice giver uses.
Greg, beat me in the head when you hear me being on that line. True, I've had more Bilsteins on my vehicles than any other particular brand, and while I personally think the Bilsteins are the best shocks around for your money, they may not have the right thing in stock for some particular application.
However, if you have ever taken a Bilstein shock apart (they say you can't, but i've done it several times), you see how simple it is. This translates into reliability, and rebuild-ability. The Poway shop (Bilstein's front-line shop for desert racing applications) will re-valve, re-tube, re-core your shock to any specs you wish. They know to talk their way with the racers (like, from the seat-of-the-pants feeling to Newtons per m/s of shock resistance), and no doubt can fix you up with whatever fancy you may want. They will send you your shocks with complete dyno curve, compression and rebound. They have shelves full of various rate valve springs, various shapes' pistons, etc. All that - on top of a general design that provides you with a shock that's reasonably soft on the road, will absorb small stuff but won't bottom out on large holes (and if it does, it provides you with a progressive-rate bump stop), and never foams or fades.
So, let me rephrase what I said earlier - I have and had shocks other than Bilsteins not because they didn't have the right shock for me, it is because I was too cheap to have the right ones made for me.
peter |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:08 pm: |
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Hmmm....well, I better understand your perspective now that I see that you have a new Rover with warranty. Unfortunately, I am of the opinion that you will never be happy with the vehicle's quality until you alone become the one responsible for it's upkeep. Your conundrum originates from the fact that you feel obligated to return to the dealer because of the perceived "value" in the warranty.
Of course I know the reputation of questionable quality and questionable service (sorry for the generalization to all you dealers & service reps out there, but it's your company not mine that has cultivated your rep). I knew this full well going in. However, I wanted a Discovery so I picked one up and left it up to me to keep it reliable. Part of keeping it reliable is striving to upgrade or replace parts with high quality parts.
As I understand it, your point is, "Why do we squabble over what the 'best of the best' is if we're all driving 'less than the best' vehicles?" I want to view the results of that squabble so I can make a better determination of what parts work better than others so that my end result is a higher quality, long-lived, reliable pleasure machine 
P.S. I have experienced stock shocks and OME shocks. Stock didn't cut it so they're out the window. OME suits me fine, so they are here to stay. I've "heard" more examples of failure with rancho than OME so I feel comfortable with my decision. I'm not a shock retailer, just a consumer, so I really have no need to prove which is better. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:31 pm: |
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Thanks Bluegill and pm. Both well put.
I have experience with OEM woodheads and Rancho at this point. If someone wants to put on a set of similar lengthed Bilsteins or OME's, I'd be happy to give them a try on my setup. I chose the Rancho's due to the fact that they had the appropriate length for my desires. I have 10" shocks in front and 12" in rear on a Rovertym 2" lift. However, I have had no problems with the Rancho's and no reason to try to other brands, so I'm not knocking either nor saying Rancho is better, just that it doesn't seem to be a bad product based on my experience.
As far as Disco problems, I too bought one because I wanted one. And whether you fix it yourself or go to the dealer due to warranty, you shouldn't have to accept a vehicle knowing that it will go to the dealer numerous times in it's first year. I've never had a problem of any magnitude with any of the Ford, GM's or Jeep's that I've owned over the years from the standpoint of product failure or part failure. My Rover has 5,280 miles on it, and there have been 2 recall items, two failed items (front rotors and cooling system tube), and there is a leak in my front main seal. 95% of my driving is done on road on a 6 mile commute to work, so these problems are not due to misuse of the product or even hard use. They all appeared within the first month or two, and from what I can read on this board are all relatively common problems. Rover has a lot of work to do in product quality and dependability.
Sorry to poke the bear on this issue, but as I said earlier I think sometimes posts come off as implying a product is bad and another is good, rather than qualifying the statement. Again, if you did a poll, I bet you could find an equal number of complaints on any product you want.
Just my thoughts. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:35 pm: |
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so much typing so much talking.
when all needs to be said is "rancho sucks"
LOL |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:45 pm: |
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And the instigator finally chimed in........ wonder what took him so long? Was it from having to be winched out of the river?
\image |
here
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:47 pm: |
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\image |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:48 pm: |
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greg, cmon, admit it, they suck. it's ok. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:51 pm: |
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Before the "out of water tow"
Now give us one while being hauled out Ho..... cmon.... it's okay.. |
gp
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:53 pm: |
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Damn pictures...
 |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:58 pm: |
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yeah, nice pic eh? |
gp
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 02:59 pm: |
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Better one....
 |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:01 pm: |
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man, it ain't friday yet. LOL |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:03 pm: |
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I know. nice picture though...... I'm jealous.... not to many places like that to wheel in the Philly area.
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gp
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:19 pm: |
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But it would be okay to admit, Ho, that this is your secret fantasy:
 |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:24 pm: |
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Ho, put it in neutral, jump out, and let that red bomb roll into the sea |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:24 pm: |
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P.S. Ho's secret desire is procomp, not rancho |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:28 pm: |
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gp,
thats' fucked up. it's usually all fun and game when you guys fuck around with pics of my truck, but that one has gone too far.
 |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:31 pm: |
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No worse than telling me my "RancHo" shocks "SUCK", is it now? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:34 pm: |
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Ho, is that the CB car wash you always go to? |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:34 pm: |
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now don't get me confused with this 'gp'. don't want Ho opening up whoop ass on me!!
looks like a big tampon Ho. ugh. that's just wrong man.
guess that is just mr. parrish's other account. my bad. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:34 pm: |
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LOL
greg, but the ranchos do suck.
give it time, you'll find out and see the light. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:36 pm: |
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LOL
dont' worry. this little chalie ain't big enough to whoop nobody's ass. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:40 pm: |
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Okay...... I'll wait and see. When they do "suck" I'll be sure to complain like the rest of the Rancho haters....... But for now, I just like poking the bear...
Isn't it interesting how Ho's name is in RanchHO.....????
I'm tellin ya, that XD would look extra special painted red and white |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:51 pm: |
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Garrett,
I had to use something other than my login name to get the pictures to work. Sorry for the confusion.
Good one on the tampon comment though.... |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:52 pm: |
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you know, ranchos, like many other things that suck in my book, get glorified all over the net.
but most certainly, time will tell.
a lot of your happiness is in your brains. you believe that those new tires did the difference, when in reality, you became a better driver, you'll come and say those new tires rock.
you believe those rancho adjustable dials are doing something for you, by god, they do make a differfence and now it suddenly rides like a caddy. LOL
so, time will tell. and until then, all the garbage will be praised and people will keep buying crap.
but, thats' ok, as long as money goes around, economy will be good.
JUST DO IT!!!
 |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:54 pm: |
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somebody with the Photoshop, please, put some RuggedRover hardware on that red disco!
peter |
gregp
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:55 pm: |
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To let you get even, Ho, I'll post my only scanned in pathetic picture of my mostly stock DII taken in the ....... "Driveway".....
How's that for fair.... poke fun and give it hell..
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Chu
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:56 pm: |
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Does someone around here work for Nike? |
gregp
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:56 pm: |
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One more time. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:58 pm: |
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peter, you have a dog by any chance??
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Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 03:58 pm: |
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Regarding the little dials, I have yet to change them from the middle setting #3. |
Ho
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:02 pm: |
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 |
anotherone
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:14 pm: |
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Damn, it's becoming an epidemic!
 |
Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:15 pm: |
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I second that Ranchos Suck. They should not even be put in the same class as Bilsteins. I used to have ranchos until they started leaking and then I had to cut them off because they are made so cheaply. And the adjustable valve is just bullshit. Who wants to stop at the beginning of the trail and say over the CB "Ahh guys, can we stop a minute..... I need to adjust my shocks so they don't start leaking..." Or just get a good set of Bilsteins and keep going.
Trust me, if you can afford a Land Rover, you can afford something better than the JEEP Shocks i.e. Rancho.
Larry |
gregp
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:21 pm: |
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Just for Ho
 |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:26 pm: |
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hey i like those stripes on my truck. they match my tires!!! dig it man. nice attention to detail on covering up the OME's. |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:26 pm: |
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Ho, i have a dog - why?
(even took my time to downsize the photo to stick it into the general BS thread)
peter |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:29 pm: |
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Larry, if you want to call Rancho shocks something, I would say they are Chevy/GM shocks more than Jeep shocks, however my last picture can be for you too......... |
anotherone
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 04:39 pm: |
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uh oh..... look whose next.....
 |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 05:23 pm: |
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Am I missing something here?
this thread is kinda funny
it makes it sond like the opinions here are Data
what they are is opinionated information
take them as such.
all shocks break
what you need to do is best estimate what your looking for
ie:stiff,firm,rebound,jounce,recoil,progresive,rebuildable,monroe,bilstein,koni,fox...and yes even frigging Ranchos!
pick one go with it
theres so damn much to know(or choose not to) about shocks that even a load mouth know it all like me knows to say dont bother trying to be right.
put your tires on the high spots and use a little more gas as the mud gets deeper and the shocks just kinda blend back in where they belong. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 05:30 pm: |
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well then, let me add bilstein to my garbage list. LOL
bilsteins suck. Ha!
cant' argue with photos... unless they are "tweeked".
hmm... actually, looks like you just cut off that bilstein.  |
james
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 05:44 pm: |
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That's also what my rancho looked like when it broke for no damn reason for the second time. I only paid for two shocks but I'm realizing that it wasn't worth it even at that price. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 05:50 pm: |
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Ho
I'd sooner add it to the maybe I'll use it again heap then cut off a good shock
I broke it last week
Chicago construction ya gotta love it
here in the midwest we only have to seasons
winter
and construction season
at about 55 I hit a area where they sawed out a slice of road 10" deep and 2 feet wide across the whole lane.
and I was busy looking at the 3 cars messed up along side the road ahead?
when I saw it I punched it and really didnt hit that hard
the drivers rear shock snapped on recoil
glad I was in the Disco |
hehehe
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 06:02 pm: |
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yeah musky, you did miss something - you accidentally bought cheap bilstein knock-offs...
 |
Pokethebear
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 07:36 pm: |
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Poke the Bear!
Poke the Bear!
 |
p m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 08:19 pm: |
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anotherone,
i better not let my wife see this picture - she was behind the wheel!
peter |
jmon
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 09:41 pm: |
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anyway.....thanks for your responses..well here are the problems that i have had...rancho shocks are only a year and half old ...they have seen several off road distance trips in california and mexico..all the way down to southern baja for a few months ata time off road and on road and the front ones are bent. the valving on all four of them is gone...one leaks...the dont seem to handle tons of offroad wheeling and gravel pothole ridden roads well...the old man emu ones did the same with exception of bending. they also saw baja a couple of times...what is involved in the ltr shock from emu? as well as shocks from king and the other cos, ? I am not to familiar with the mechanics of these type of shocks..are they stronger? can withstand lots of wheeling..thousands of miles of offroad in one trip and still be good for the next one? thanks |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 10:09 pm: |
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Call up the guys from Expedition Exchange (www.expeditionexchange.com) and ask about the LTR. It's my understanding that they are fundamentally the same as the other OME shocks but have an external reservoir to allow them to prevent shock fade over broken roads.
There is stuff all over the internet about Ranchos, Bilsteins, etc.
Once you move to the more expensive group, you will find Bilsteins off-road racing group (6100, 7100, 9100. These are rebuildable shocks that are used on those Baja race trucks you see flying through the desert. King shocks also build off-road racing shocks as their primary business. If they can handle the Baja 1000 at 150 mph, I am sure they can handle your Land Rover. You will pay real money for these types of shocks.
Take a look around the King web page and see if you think it will meet your needs:
http://www.kingshocks.com/
Then take a look at Bilsteins off-road line:
http://www.bilstein.com/products/x100page.html
Best of luck,
-P |
jmon
| | Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2002 - 10:20 pm: |
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well its a starting point at least...thanks perrone.. |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 09:04 am: |
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Do the reservoir OME's come in 10" & 12" versions with the appropriate ends to fit on a DII?
And pm, I hope you were making a joke about your wife...... I was certainly not calling her a ho, I was trying to poke more fun at Ho Chung.
See what you did Ho? Almost got me in trouble with someones wife. I bet you will blame that on the fact that I have Rancho's too, huh?
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muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:13 pm: |
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well after 20 years of dedicated bilstein use I'm done
just got off the horn with there warrenty people.
first the guy made it sound like they have never sean a failure such as theone I had(yea right)
then He asked if I have ever used my truck off road? turns out that that is abuse.and that they dont really make a "offroad" shock for Land Rovers?
he did say that if I found my reciept they may consider replacing it when they determine it wasent abused? he said I could send in my title of my truck to prove I didnt get the shocks on the truck?
guess that means there is no warrenty on shocks installed on used landrovers ,you have to have been rich enough to buy one new or no such luck.
all this for a broken lifetime warrenty shock?
so guys I retrack all my previous and will change my future reccomendations on shocks. if you really plan on using your truck the way it was designed to be used dont buy Bilstein , they are of the mindset that we all abuse our trucks.ie: offroad use.
even though mine failed on a state/interstate highway...my fault though I guess, having bought bilsteins for every car I'v owned in the last 15 years (i'd say 20 cars x4 shocks each) years I shoulda known that bilstein really is a euro car shock not a truck shock.
oh and one more thing, my buddies new trail blazer with bilsteins, GM has some disclaimers in the warrenty for off-road use, guess that must because it has on-road only shocks.
so Ho...I'm with you bilstein=Garbage...atleast as far as LR's go |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
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Musky,
you bought 80 Bilstein shocks, have one fail, and you are bitchin' about it?
if I had this long relationship with any product, I'd just buy another and save myself some hassle.
peter |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:48 pm: |
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no I had one company rep tell me that they consider offroad abuse so I'm done with them in my disco or any other vehicle that goes off-road
I will still use them on all my street cars because I like there products that much.
in all my autocrossing days I found them to be very helpfull
but if they are selling shocks for a Disco and then saying offroad is abuse...you tell me peter
why should I pay for a warrenty that may be questioned for possible abuse reasons?
bet ya Rancho or OME wouldent make such a lame excuse on a shock sold explicetly for a LR
face it even though the yuppies have made disco's mall crawlers they are really destination vehicles intended for off-road use.
if a company wants that business they have to except the fact a certain percentage of there customers are gonna break stuff.
if they truley have never seen a break like mine youd think that quality control would like to see this shock. and that warrenting it would be a low cost way to get valuble information?
and yes peter I have bought atleast 80 of there shocks.
when I was chest deep in autocrossing my BMW I had about 5 sets for one car alone all set up a little different trying to control roll rates or match different spring rates. I used to have whole assemblies spring ,shock and castor plate all set up to change in a blink if the track conditions dictated.
and I have had more then one fail, this is the first that I felt I did not cause. I have melted internal seals running at LimeRock but thats all part of the cost of playing that game. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:56 pm: |
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>"well after 20 years of dedicated bilstein use I'm done"
>"and yes peter I have bought atleast 80 of there shocks."
that Bilstein warranty rep should be ashamed of himself and then fired. |
p m
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:57 pm: |
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well, I guess I'm not trying hard to break'em.
speaking of strictly off-road applications, I believe OME makes good shocks, at least, judging by the shaft diameter. But, in my very limited experience, you can't just grab an OME shock earmarked for a Disco and expect it to be a good performer on the street, while Bilsteins seem to strike some balance.
personally, I don't believe in the lifetime warranty BS, and therefore wouldn't care to spend time to squeeze another shock from Bilstein. I don't buy them every day (3 sets in 5 years), so I'd just bite the bullet and get another one.
peter |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 12:57 pm: |
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Krupp Bilstein of America warrants its gas pressure shock absorbers against defects in workmanship and materials for as long as you, the original purchaser, own your car.
If at any time after purchase or installation, the shock malfunctions and Bilstein determines it to be defective, we will either replace it or repair it.
There are only a few specific exceptions to this warranty. They include:
1 original equipment shock absorbers - which are warrantied by the vehicle manufacturer,
2 improper installation,
3 racing, driving competition or off-road use,
4 use on modified or other than Bilstein-recommended vehicles.
this is straight off the link Perrone listed above
what part of line 3 makes me want to use them on a LR
fact is if they so ellect they can just plain deny all LR shocks under this...ie: you musta used it off road
these are frigging off-road trucks...HELLO! |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 01:43 pm: |
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I used to have a VERY hard time with that warranty. That is why I always recommended OME over Bilstein except for road use. I had a long conversation with Bill Davis at GBR about it and he says he has never had a warranty issue with Bilstein about off-road use and that he would honor the warranty for shocks purchased through him. With that, I recommend Bilsteins but only through vendors who won't give you the runaround or warranties for trucks used offroad.
I think this warranty thing is how Bilstein tries to sell people up into their more expensive shocks. It's a crappy way to do it for sure, but they do make some really good shocks.
-P |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:21 pm: |
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Perrone
youv been reading my posts for a long time you know where I stand on Bilstein as far as performance
now that I have a broken one in my hands I say that the bottom mounting stud is to small
its gotta be breaking for other guys as it did for me ...its puiny...should be bigger to eliminate the weak link.
i guess I shoulda just gone threw the company I bought them from instead of calling direct.
my fault...i'v always been a direct kinda guy
but sometimes interactions like I had with there warrentie guy today play into things aswell
I'd hate to have someone I buy from get stuck because I "abused" my shocks by driving "offroad"
the warrentee dept can often give you a companys current flavour...for my taste the less then exceptable way I was treated today has made Bilstein taste a little sour.
this just brings back memories of the 80's and early 90's when companys sold off-road products then hid behind terms like "show bars" instead of roll bar.
if they cant handle the broken parts Bilstein should only sell there true off-road shocks |
Greg P. (Gparrish)
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:41 pm: |
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You would think that a company would just give you a shock for having bought eighty of their products...... That would probably make a good advertisement for someone like RANCHO. To be able to feature your smiling mug and broken shock in a magazine ad boasting about how you switched to a real shock manufacturer after years of misguidance because they stand behind their products....... It's true, RANCHO's are Great..... Ask anyone..... Ask Ho. GO RANCHO |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:45 pm: |
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Musky,
You'll get no argument from me. I don't think I will ever understand why LR specified an stud-stud mount for the front and an stud mount at the bottom rear of these trucks. Almost any off-road or track car I have evers seen uses the loop mount so that the forces can be borne by a much larger structure.
Shock manufacturers are quite limited in what they can offer as a stock fit on our trucks simply because stud has to fit into the stock mount. This doesn't excuse Bilstein from not helping you out though. It can't help but leave a bad taste in a customers mouth. Where are you going next? Edelbrock? Koni?
-P |
Kyle
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:49 pm: |
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Under the loop is the same size area Perrone. It will yank that off just as fast.... I would have to say that shock saw its fair share of topping out before it took a dump....
Kyle |
getsome
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 02:54 pm: |
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Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 03:50 pm: |
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Yes, someone here works for nike. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:04 pm: |
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I run rancho's on my scout (4 9000's up front 2 5000's in back)
guess they will get the nod
ranchos fade pretty bad as they get hot....up in canada bear hunting i'll put on 1000 miles a week on really bad washboard rocky roads at good speed and the ranchos havent really been up to the task .
Edelbrocks work great on one of my buddies jeeps except I think the speed sensitive valving might be kinda hard on shock mounts. he has broke a couple good mounts that held up for years to Rancho 5000's...both times droping the front off a ledge...but other then that I'v heard some really good stuff about them.
does koni do long travel? they make excelent race shocks for cars with awsome choices for valving .
like I said before lots of things to weigh as far as shocks go |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 04:12 pm: |
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kyle,
your right about that, the Bilsteins are not the perfect size IMHO, I'm sure it had topped out a bunch.
in looking at the metal fatigue patern at the break it had been long since weakened.
thats why I know that the Bilstein guys are so full of shit when they said they have "NEVER" had one break like that.
other guys Bilsteins are out there topping out as we speak no doubt!
maybe your not that crazy for your love of woodheads after all? |
Rich Lee
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:06 pm: |
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Musky,
First, I would contact a different warranty rep or wholesaler for Bilstein. They have replaced racing shocks for me with no problem and have repaired ones that I had clearly damaged, for amazingly low coost.
As far as the "no Off road" clause, I think Bilstein might re-think that one. I have been involved with (and won) product liability disputes, but I am NOT a product liability lawyer. However, one of the basic requirement for vehicle replacement parts is that they must be able to withstand the loads and forces that are part of "normal" use that the vehicle was designed for. They must (should) meet or exceed OEM equipement standards. The Discovery is clearly built to be driven off road as part of it's normal operation. The owners manual clearly states what it can safely do without exceeding the capacity of its drivetrain/suspension/etc. If a product fails under "normal" vehicle use (on or off road) while it is within its warranty period then it is defective in either design or construction. The accusation of "Abuse" needs to be proven by the manufacturer. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 05:38 pm: |
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rich.
my point ....on the button |
Gotsome
| | Posted on Friday, May 17, 2002 - 08:34 pm: |
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Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2002 - 01:12 am: |
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fox? you can find them at your nearest dental supplier. LOL |
chrisvonc
| | Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2002 - 04:12 pm: |
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I like my Fox shocks. They even sometimes rattle in time with whats on the radio. |
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