| Author | Message | ||||||
     Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2004 |
Can anyone tell me what the basics are that i should get for my 2000 D2? I have shackles and a come-along, but no highlift jack (what height??), no rear hitch/shackle thingy (which I think i should get if I can find one), I have snow chains for the rear only (Land Rover says using chains in the front will screw up the ABS hoses, etc.). Naturally I carry a shovel, but I also need a recommendation a a good bumper and winch combo, plus would like to get a lift but need to know which one and how high? I kind of have my heart set on a Hannibal rack, but need lights etc. Anything else I should consider liie under carriage protection? Can I use the high lift on the D2's jacking points or is there an adapter to fit the openings to the high lift for rapid jacking? Oh yeah, what is the Jack Mate for? Thanks! | ||||||
| Sandy Grice (Apg) Member Username: Apg Post Number: 43 Registered: 02-2003 |
The jack mate is an attachment for the top of the High Lift so you can make quick re-sets when using chain. I used a high lift as a winch for many years before getting winches for both vehicles. If you have ever seen the 'high lift vehicle drag' at the MAR, you know how much energy is involved. A highlift would be my first choice, but this won't do much good without secure jacking points. The rear reciever can be used, but the front is lacking. Safari Gard and other bumper/brush guard systems incorporate jack points. Anything longer than 48" gets hard to store unless you have a roof rack. Diff guards front and rear are cheap insurance for serious rock crawling. Consider a front bumper that has an integral skid plate. Of course, this ain't cheap.... You'll also want to consider rock sliders to protect the sills. Several companies make 'em. The best thing to do is attend a big Rover club event and observe. Ask questions and take notes...and start saving your coins....you'll need 'em. Cheers | ||||||
| carl seashore (Drcarl) Member Username: Drcarl Post Number: 111 Registered: 07-2003 |
sheldon, search the archives for a wealth of info regarding your questions. much is a matter of personal choice. i can recall recent threads on recovery gear and winch/bumpers with loads of good info. absolutely focus on recovery and protection first, as the truck is quite capable without any mods. a rear shackle, or jates, and front jates are a good start. google jates and warn shackle for a vendor. not sure about dII jacking points... cheers, carl | ||||||
| Kyle Van Tassel (Kyle) Moderator Username: Kyle Post Number: 572 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ask Jamie.............  "Blow me" | ||||||
| Peter Matusov (Pmatusov) Senior Member Username: Pmatusov Post Number: 1272 Registered: 09-2002 |
Nice... Sandy, so the first choice would be a $80 jack that is useless without a $800 bumper? | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 759 Registered: 05-2003 |
Kyle, You've gone and gotten me giggling again!! You'd better watch out. I just might have to come track you down and decorate your recovery gear!! Hmmm... maybe I'll paint some pretty flowers on it?? Sheldon, there is an informative thread about recovery gear in the Tools section. Good Luck, Jamie | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 760 Registered: 05-2003 |
Here is the link to it: ../31524/35187.html"#444444"> | Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1337 Registered: 02-2002 |
Sheldon - what kind of come-along do you have? One thing you MUST carry, if you go into soft stuff like sand, is a jack base, around 10" square will do. In case you have a flat. Oh water of course, clothes, another vehicle is useful, straps shackles and recovery points. Basic tool set. Dean Ps in the summer, do yourself a favor and keep a spare gallon of water in the back as a permanent fixture. | ||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 |
Okay guys. Thanks. This is my company truck, and i plan to write off all the gear for it. ;) In other words, I'm not really worried about spending some coin to trick it out. That's why i bought a used one, so i could afford to do the mods and buy myself a BMW Z3. :D I own an small ad agency and we specialize in the hunting and shooting industry. You just HAVE to have a coool truck when travelling to different shooting events. ;) I have already got some of the basic gear. I used to own a Toyota with an 8000LB Warn winch and sold it. I should have kept the winch and bumper. I was the only truck I've owned with a winch, and it's definitely a must have for this truck. I have only been stuck three times in the last 10 years - once in deep mud/water, and the other two times in snow, which is why i just got a set of chains. Oh, and I'm in central Canada, so there aren't any clubs within a day's drive that i know of. | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2004 |
One last thing. What the hell is a jate?? | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1341 Registered: 02-2002 |
Jate rings are recovery loops that bolt direcly onto the frame. Best thing for recovery if you don't have a decent bumper. | ||||||
| Jim Reynolds (4x4xfar) Senior Member Username: 4x4xfar Post Number: 300 Registered: 05-2003 |
Dean will Jates take a good jolt from a tow strap. They just dont look strong enough??? http://www.landroverstuff.com/jaterings.htm Thanks , Jim | ||||||
| Lance Cowley (Duckhunter) New Member Username: Duckhunter Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2004 |
Tow strap, D rings, and a Winch. Oh, one more thing, dont get stuck your in a ROVER! | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2004 |
I saw the Jate rings. Thanks. Is there already a place to bolt these to or do I need to weld on brackets?? The owner's manual tell you to use the rear loops by the gas tanks for recovery. The front one too. Lucky I didn't try that yet. I used the rear hitch last time. | ||||||
| Jamil Abbasy (Jamooche) Senior Member Username: Jamooche Post Number: 266 Registered: 05-2003 |
How many people carry Chain to use with the Hi-Lift for winch recovery? I am planning on getting some 3/8" chain with clevis grab hooks. Should I get 10', 15', or 20'? And how much better is 70 grade over 40 grade chain? I am thinking 3/8" 10' 70 grade...20' is so heavy. Jamil | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1342 Registered: 02-2002 |
Sheldon - the manual does NOT say that! Jamil - what kind of terrain do you wheel in? | ||||||
| Jamil Abbasy (Jamooche) Senior Member Username: Jamooche Post Number: 268 Registered: 05-2003 |
Dean, Mostly New England...Mud, dirt, lots of trees. | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2004 |
Okay Dean. I'm running for my manual now... Huf, puff. ;) Today I bought and assembled 50" of 5/16" cable, two 3/4" shackles, 30' of 3/8" 70 grade high tensile chain with equally rated grab hooks, a 2"x20' recovery strap and a hitch and pin for my receiver. They didn't have anything larger for straps in stock. All sold out of the larger/longer ones. I also couldn't find the bar/shackle thingy for the receiver, even in stores that sold the big Warn and Superwinch winches. I couldn't find a Hi-Lift jack either. I did see a Jack-All brand one, which looks similar and is supposed to work the same, but I couldn't find a 60" and I wasn't sure the accessories you guys use would work with it. It is NATO issue, but isn't Hi-Lift. Any comments on wether this is the same? Going wheelin in the snow tomorrow so we'll see how that goes. Where can I buy some diff protectors?? | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2004 |
Okay. My manual talk about the rings being used for "on-road recovery" and towing. It suggests that you remove the panel for the front hook before going off-road to avoid losing it. Very confusing. I guess this is british lingo. I missed the "on-road stuff" The hooks looked pretty lame, but I thought maybe the vehicle was light (??) and that's all that was needed for light recovery. Stuck in serious mud - no. I guess I expected a Rover to come from the factory with decent hooks.... Thanks for setting me straight Dean. | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2004 |
Sandy. Can you recommend a really good winch bumper with integral skid plate?? I want a good one, not a cheap one. | ||||||
| Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Senior Member Username: Deanbrown3d Post Number: 1351 Registered: 02-2002 |
Sheldon - Will you slow down! Have you even been off road yet with the disco? Have you even been stuck once? You're already spending stuff that you're not gonna use (the tow chain for example). You're asking for a bumper now and a winch and a lift, so why do you need a high-lift and chain to winch yourself? Take it easy, try going off-road bone stock, perhaps with another vehicle if you're worried about getting stuck. Make sure you have a recovery point and a strap/shackles, that's all for now. Then as you become more familiar with things, after 6 months you might think about a bumper, if you're had enough of digging. Look out for trips in your area and go on them, where people can help you out if you get in trouble. If you're near NJ keep an eye open for trails to the pine barrens, we go all the time. But don't waste a ton of cash on junk that you'll wish later you had spent on something useful (bumper. Best one IMHO is rovertym. And bumpers don't come with integral skid plates, those are extra). Dean | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2004 |
I have already been stuck in snow once. I have been stuck in my Ford too. I bought this truck to costomize and take off road. I'm excited! :D Somebody pointed me to a guy's site (the Unstuck Video guy) who had a list of basic revoery gear. Some of it I already had, but wasn't to "spec" so I bought the "spec" stuff. I have two trucks now, so I don't need to be swapping gear like that back and forth anyway. I think every truck needs a chain in it, in addition to a strap. At least, I won't get caught without a strap again. The only reason my bumper near got ripped off, is because I pulled my own stuff out to use with another guys truck and left it with him. Now I have gear in both trucks, and they'll stay there. I don't want to have to remeber to have stuff like that handy. I am about 1.5 hours North of Grand Forks, North Dakota, in Central Canada. NJ is a LONG way away but thanks for the offer. I need the bumper now. It seems that I have no recovery point in the front right now, other than that cheesy ring from the factory. I already cracked most of the plastic on the front. That would have been avoided with the addition of the bumper. I'll buy the skid plates extra. I'm prepared to spend a substantial amount of money to get this thing rigged quick. That's why I bought a used truck instead of a brand new one - so I could afford all the extras. :D I looked at the Rovertym. I want a full brush bar style that has the A Bar, so I might get that one. I have seen cosmetically prettier ones, but I'm assuming the toughness of this one is what sells it, in addition to it's relatively high profile (angle). | ||||||
| Jamil Abbasy (Jamooche) Senior Member Username: Jamooche Post Number: 273 Registered: 05-2003 |
One more thing...You must know how to use recovery gear properly. Misuse can result in injury and death. No joke, no exaggeration. | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2004 |
I spent a couple of years in the Navy, but I was a baotswain, and we tended to do some riggin and training with the army, so I have played with recovery gear a bit, and understand lines and such under load, etc. and what happens when things go bad. I have also had a truck with winch and platform bumper before, and while I only got it stuck a couple of times, I did yank and winch a lot of people out for a spell. Honest. I'll be okay. I promise I won't pull from a ball hitch okay. ;) | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1505 Registered: 02-2003 |
I Think the days of using chain are really numbered. custom short lengths of synthetic winch line are what i would suggest. it's so much lighter and stronger. the reason that chain is used in the first place is that it doesnt stretch. get your recovery points before you blow any more money. rd | ||||||
| Bill Ross (Billr) Member Username: Billr Post Number: 135 Registered: 11-2002 |
Sheldon - Hi-Lift and Jack-All are basically the same thing except the former is from Indiana and the latter is Canadian. I agree with Dean and would suggest that you take it easy. I haven't got much more than a couple of shakles and a strap and that's been adequate for me. Don't know how much snow you got out your way, but we got a fair bit here and with these really "cool" temps, its pretty hard to get stuck. I was out the other day in stuff that was running maybe 10-14in deep or so and never had a problem. I'm assuming you are not going out by yourself, yes? | ||||||
| Chad Meyer (Ccdm3) Member Username: Ccdm3 Post Number: 194 Registered: 07-2002 |
Sheldon, SafariGard has a winch bumper with an integrated skid plate. It has the approach angle you are looking for and the best finish you will find. (in my opinion) | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 439 Registered: 10-2002 |
The place where chain is handy is when using rocks as recovery anchors. Rocks will eat up your tree savers. I think most who have used the two jacks agree that there's a difference between JackAll and Hi-Lift. I prefer the Hi-Lift. Whatever you get, practice with them first so you know how to use them safely and properly I'd spend your money first on JATE rings and protection (diff guards, sliders) and a 48" Hi-Lift that you secure very well inside your vehicle if you don't have a roof rack. You can at least use the Hi-Lift on your sliders and rear tow hitch. Eventually you will be sucked into the black hole of modifications that will drain your wallet... | ||||||
| Walter Dent (Walter) New Member Username: Walter Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2003 |
I saw Hi-Lift jacks, 48" at tractor supply for $35 today. Actual Hi-Lift, not an off brand. | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1507 Registered: 02-2003 |
that would work greg but i would use a strap, like you said it would get chewed up, but thats why i buy the cheap ones. also that chain is just so heavy. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 440 Registered: 10-2002 |
Rob- Chain=exercise=Good Grateful Dead=Smoking Weed=Bad (hehe) Besides, I don't trust even a new strap after use on a sharp rock edge. Call me paranoid. I do realize that a chain is just another item for you Pennsylvanians to try to rust to pieces and that trees are a little more abundant for anchors back east than in Anza Borrego. | ||||||
| Rich Lee (Rich_lee) New Member Username: Rich_lee Post Number: 21 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hi All, I don't yet have a winch, but have done some pretty serious self recoveries with a High Lift jack and chains. These involved 20' to 40' uphill pulls over diff-deep mud or rocks n' roots. All were at night, one was in a snowstorm (rear chains already useless). Each time, I used 5/16" grade-70 chain and shackles (all rated at 4900 lbs). The setup works and the pulls did not exceed the strength of the components. However, I would advise using grade-70 or 80 3/8" chain and fittings. About 20'for the main pulling chain is the best compromise between utility and weight. When my anchor was farther away, I would join the chain to 1 or more recovery straps. The thing that makes this setup work so well for me is that I have 2 short chains with grab-hooks attached to the Hight-Lift jack. One is attached to the bottom-most hole in the jack shaft (base plate removed), the other through the "eye" beneath the lifting jaw of the jack, both by means of a 1/2" threaded steel link (looks like a big locking carabiner). A similar link is used to fix the top of the jack shaft to the anchor (usually a tree strap). The tow chain is securely fixed to the Rover jate ring and the free end is grabbed by the hook & chain attached to the lifting jaw of the jack. Once this vehicle chain is pulled (by horizontal jacking)as far as the jack can go, it is grabbed by the chain and hook that is fixed to the bottom of the jack shaft. "Lowering" the lifting jaw 2 or 3 clicks takes the tension off the lifting jaw hook and transfers it to the bottom hook. In this way, the vehicle/load is constantly under tension while the jack is being reset for subsequent pulls. You loose only 2-3" with each 48" pull, and with strong arms, you can pull at almost 4 feet a minute. WARNING! be sure all anchors and hardware are secure and rated to the task. Be sure the jack is cleaned and well-lubed. And be Damn-sure that you do not let go of the jack handle, which must be raised or lowered completely to a secure "click" each time, AND that you keep your face and other body parts away from the arc of the jack handle when it is in use. HEAVE HO! | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) New Member Username: Rifleman Post Number: 35 Registered: 01-2004 |
Guys. I have used a jack all before for fencing, winching, etc. (I live in the country and had horses for about 8 years, so lots of fencing). I had a 60" Jack-All that I used to carry with an '86 Toyota I used to own, even though that one also had a 8000 LB Warn Winch and a platform bumper. Winching yourself out backwards is not easy, thus the jackall and chain. I did have a pretty cool rig for that truck though, consisting of a piece of two inch square tubing mounted vertically on top of and in the center of the bumper. A long extension fit over that and was pinned in place. It was long enough to be slightly higher than the roofline and had a pulley on it. You simply ran your cable through the pulley, and back over the rollbars and you could winch yourself backward (carefully and only if not too badly stuck) and even winch gear like sleds, ATVs and animals like elk and moose in the box of the truck. So, the chain is for the Hi-Lift as a back up to the winch. Winches also fail. I know from personal experience. I was out today and the snow was deep enough that we had to occassionally climb out the windows to get out. There was about 25 trucks and we were following large drainages and something we call the floodway. It was pretty cool going through truck sized culverts and shit. There were some very large trucks cutting the trail, or I would never have made it through. Some of the spots were so deep that I was crotch deep and my feet weren't hitting bottom. We're getting another 12.5" tonight. I pulled a couple of full-size chevy's out, and made a few of them look bad in my tiny Rover. OTOH, I needed to get yanked out a couple of time myself, and even used the front towing eye to get out. I was high centered more than once. That's for sure. Luckily, snow is pretty easy to break loose from compared to the suction of muck. It may not be ideal, but I was thankful to have that cheesy eye today until I get a real bumper. That was the first time I have really gone wheeling like that just for the sake of it. I did it a few times as a kid (my first vehicle when I was 16 was a Dodge Ramcharger with constant 4x4). I have done lots of wheeling, but's is usually been in the process of hunting, which I do every chance I get. I was out hunting coyotes by myself this morning, and I am already tired of digging. I don't need 6 months more of that to convince me to get the truck raised up, bigger tires, and some recovery points - attached to a big ass front bumper. Thanks for all the input. | ||||||
| Donald McFarlane (Dsmcf) Member Username: Dsmcf Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2003 |
another good reason to carry some chain is when you're trying to attach to the frame of a vehicle that doesn't have any recovery points. And you would pinch and stress/fail any synthetic lines / straps. Just helped someone out of some ice this evening, who has a two wheel drive F150 pickup with 20" rims, street tires, and a custom Harley Davidson logo package. And got stuck in a parking lot LOL. Needless to say he did not have recovery points... | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) On Probation Username: Rifleman Post Number: 43 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yup. At least one decent chain with grab hooks is a must have for every truck IMO. Sometimes you might want use your truck for a working man's project where you want to use the truck as an anchor and pull something down or taught and you don't want any stretch, but in fairness to those against chains, that's not really recovery. | ||||||
| carl seashore (Drcarl) Member Username: Drcarl Post Number: 113 Registered: 07-2003 |
best price i have ever seen for jates: http://www.discountbritishparts.com/Specials/specials.html they bolt front and rear directly to the frame in place of existing wimpier bits. and, as they are designed for airlifting vehicles, i think they are plenty strong... cheers, carl | ||||||
| Frank Rafka (Mongosd2) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Mongosd2 Post Number: 337 Registered: 02-2003 |
Ok, jumping in late: Hi-Lift, has a use, but is dangerous. I know of a couple guys hurt using those things. I have one, but use only when Absolutely needed. Chains, Big debate here, syn line stronger, but not as durable. I have one short piece of chain, everything is either straps or syn line. Syn line is much lighter, and easier to use. Recovery Points. Get some jate rings, or get some bumpers with recovery points. Using the tir-downs is just asking for trouble. Rich, you gotta be kiddin' me, let's 4 feet per minute, 10 minutes to change rigging...do the math, and buy a winch! Sheldon, just slow down dude, your going light speed into this, and pissin' money away... Frank | ||||||
| Jamie (Rover_puppy) Senior Member Username: Rover_puppy Post Number: 772 Registered: 05-2003 |
Sheldon, Have you ever seen a recovery accident? Jamie | ||||||
| Sean Clawson (Jacintyre) New Member Username: Jacintyre Post Number: 36 Registered: 09-2003 |
Jim R, The JATE rings will hold in a recovery, have used them. I purchased mine from the link you gave in your post. They were sent with grade 8 hardware I believe. The diameter of the ring itself is about the same as a 3/4 shackle. | ||||||
| Leo (Leo_hallak) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Leo_hallak Post Number: 178 Registered: 02-2003 |
You know there are times when grade 8 isnt what you want. Sometimes its a little better to have a bolt bend then break. -leo | ||||||
| Rob Davison (Nosivad_bor) Dweb Lounge Member Username: Nosivad_bor Post Number: 1512 Registered: 02-2003 |
yeah, i'm not saying don't buy chain, chain sucks, cain is for looseres and peope with chain af rotten teeths. i'm just saying consider the alternative of chain. whetere synth line of normal steel cable. i just dont like chain. as anchoring around a rock greg, those arent too common here in PA rd | ||||||
| James Briscoe (Rockywood) New Member Username: Rockywood Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2004 |
Sheldon, Are you that guy who stole that 2000 Disco off the BMW lot a couple of Saturdays ago? I called them at 9:30 am it was already "Sold and Delivered" 105k KMs? We should do some off roading sometime. First I have to change out my viscous drive, water pump, belt, and fan blade though. Should be completed on Friday. - James | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) On Probation Username: Rifleman Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hi Jamie. I ahve seen a line snap once, but it wasn't a recovery, it was on a destroyer I was working off the east coast. Luckily no one was killed, but it was pretty scary. I can't remeber, it was 20 years ago, but I believe we were shown a video of a recovery accident. It may have beeen just a very descriptive Petty officer or something. ;) We did receive some training on safety for that sort of thiing, but we all break the rules sometimes. In my case, it's because I haven't got my bumper yet (two weeks away) and I didn't want to wait to play. We all speed sometimes, drive after a couple of drinks when we know we shouldn't and sometimes that puts others at risk too, but we still take chances. In the case of my snow cruise, the guys I was with knew their stuff and also knew I was going to have the rig tricked out son enough. They didn't say, "...and don't come back until you have proper hooks!" They said, "...yeah, yeah. Let's go see that thing in the snow!" Now if you are asking me if i have ever seen a winch cable or tow rope snap, then the answer is yes, on more than one occassion, which is why I hang a jacket or something across the line whenever I use one, unless I'm in an armor plated vehicle. | ||||||
| Greg Hirst (Gregh) Senior Member Username: Gregh Post Number: 441 Registered: 10-2002 |
"...cain is for looseres and people with chain af rotten teeths. i'm just saying consider the alternative of chain. whetere synth line of normal steel cable." Put down the garlic bread, Rob! LOL | ||||||
| Sheldon Charron (Rifleman) On Probation Username: Rifleman Post Number: 52 Registered: 01-2004 |
james: Sorry, you snuck that post in on me. Yeah, I'm the guy. It was a sweet deal. I knew about it before the ad hit and was waiting for it to come back from detailing so you didn't have a chance brother. ;) You are welcome to buy it from me in a year or two. Don't worry about the dents, they just add character. heh, heh. Oh, and you don't want to wheel with me man. Haven't you heard, I'm a total asshole who will get you killed in some kind of horrible winching accident. LOL |
