Fuel Injection cleaner/treatment addi...

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Author Message   Marc Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:59 am:    Is it a good idea to run this stuff? If so, what brand and how often?   sg Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 10:36 am:    i use slick50 - every 5k or so - no problems   Dee Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 01:58 pm:    Not recommended, prolonged use will trash your O2 sensors, The best way to clean the injectors is to pull them and have a shop bench clean them. i paid 20 to have them cleaned and tested. You can have them rebuilt that gets a bit more pricey Dee   Mark & Bev Preston (Markp) Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:05 pm:    BG44K. Available at most parts stores. Works great. Several years ago it was only available wholesale. Stronger than your average fuel injector cleaner. My local Land Rover dealer displays it. Mark   Danno Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:19 pm:    i use the Lucas addatives. haven't had a problem yet.   JMcD Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:27 pm:    Not Recommended by whom? 20 bucks to have them cleaned and tested? Is this Dee of DiscountRovers? No offense but everything you just said seems a little made up to me. I could be wrong but Fuel System cleaner is Recommended by L-R, and the fairly major job of removing the injectors to 'test and clean' as a maintenance item is screwed up. How many times have you done this? You may be right Dee, but I don't think you are. If I am wrong than I apoligize in advance. JMcD   Marc Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 02:55 pm:    I just found out that LR has a recommended product now - their own brand is what my dealer says - anyone know about this?   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 03:30 pm:    BG44K. Available at most parts stores. I wish.... I searched and searched, and NO ONE within a 100 mile radius had even heard of the stuff... FWIW.... -L   sg Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 04:26 pm:    would someone name an autoparts store that carries BGK44 - my mercedes mechanic uses it - I am sure Land Rover's is made by another manufacturer and they just slap their name on it.....   Rick Lindgren Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 05:50 pm:    We have one NAPA store and a Big O Tires that carry BG44K locally. I'm in Washington State so you might not have a Big O Tires in your area. The guy at NAPA says that you still have to give blood, urine, and saliva samples to become an "authorized distributor" of BG44K and most of the local places have stopped carrying it. Rick   Dee Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:18 pm:    Jmcd, I did say the best method and yes prolonged use of additives and cleaners will harm the sensors, and foul the plugs KEY WORD PROLONGED USE.... About the 20$ i meant on a bench charge to clean the injectors not R$R them. And no i did not make it up, i just had my old injectors cleaned.   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:21 pm:    Most NAPA stores I have been into carry BG44K. This is about the only place other than dealerships that I have seen carry it. Larry   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:29 pm:    BTW, BG44K coat around $20 a can. You might try looking on the internet somewhere and buy a couple of cans to keep for the future. Larry   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:34 pm:    I found their website. www.bgprod.com They list distributors for each state on their website. Larry   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:45 pm:    Big O down the street from me sells the stuff too. I'll ship you some Leslie if you want. About $20/can or so. The Big O guys swear by it. I've "heard" that LRover does recommend BG44K, but haven't asked the dealer myself. I chugged a can last month and all it did was make me sick. Don't know what the big deal is....   Dee Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 06:57 pm:    Dam Blue your supposed to cut it with some Soda not drink it straight up Dee   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 07:00 pm:    hmmm....I must say that that night my injector fired like it never had before...   Dee Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 07:03 pm:    LOL, running on all 8 are we   Ron Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:19 am:    LRNA5010 or LRN5010 something like that Its LR cleaner. That or 44 is probably the best. I use the rover stuff every 7500 or so. Ron   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:45 am:    I used fuel injector/system cleaners...then my uncle told me not to. Since he has been an automotive instructor for longer than I have been alive, and he profits nothing by either me buying the crap or not, I'd take his word for it. Basically, he says it doesn't do the job as advirtised. Maybe he takes pride on saving me money (him being a money miser who owns a Bentley, 2 Bimmers, a '39 Ford coupe...). BTW, food for thought: lets say this stuff does work. The amount of solvent contained in these additives become fairly diluted when added to your "full tank" of gas...well, consider how long it takes for an injector to become gummed up with deposits, etc to the point where it no longer funtions adequately. I would imagine it would take around the same period of time using these products to clean up the mess. Hey, I have no data to speak of...maybe I'll make some data up to impress you guys later this week. Whatever it's worth...   MTB Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 04:05 am:    Jason We can all understand the point you are making. I would notice a difference whenever I would add a cleaner. BG44K worked good but $$$, I use seafoam @ $5 a can and I feel it works, Maybe mental but I do notice my Disco runs a little better. what I hope to get out of the cleaner is cleaner valves. As for dilution yes it will be diluted but it comes down on how strong is it before adding. And yes I am sure plenty of the cleaners on the market are not worth it. It would be nice to see some kind of data on how well they work. maybe someone has the data we can see. I will try to see what I can come up with. Not what the snake oil salesman on the television claim.   MTB Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 04:43 am:    Dee good or bad you should not tell people that prolonged use of cleaners are bad for O2 sensors. You should say Yes use them often. Then just keep a huge supply of sensors on hand. That would be my sales tool I have heard using FI cleaners are bad for the injectors themselves if used to much. Is that true anyone.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 08:51 am:    Blue, Thanks for the offer, but as I'm between Discos at the moment (the Roo's my daily driver now, and my only Rover (for now) is my 88"), I don't need any at the moment. But, when the time comes, if I still can't find it locally, I may trouble you to do that for me. I printed off the information on BG44K from their website, and took it to three different NAPA shops in the area, and every other parts-store in town... NO ONE had heard of it before. Whenever I was in an adjacent town, I'd stop by their auto-parts stores, and still never found the stuff. The distributor for this state is on the other end of the state, so, it's quite possible that maybe I could find it in Nashville or Memphis, or Richmond, but not in Blountville or Gate City. I did try Seafoam, and while it really helped the Series, it didn't phase the Disco... no difference at all. -L   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 08:56 am:    dee is right on base here you should limit these solvent type cleaners they do ruin injectors and they strip the protective coating on o2 sensors as well in tests prolong with techron does the least damage of all brands. chevron has been doing private label for BMW MB and others for year Dee is also correct on the bench flow method what they do is install all the injectors into a liquid flow bench they then pump a fluid at the reccomended fuel rail pressure for a given time then by measuring the volume of liquid you can tell if the injectors are putting out the right amount of fuel they can then pump solvent around through them till they get cleaned back into spec in my expierience replace the low ones and the high ones. they go both ways when they go bad (to much flow and to little) if you read magazines like turbo and Hi-tech you will find that most performance gains come from balenced sets not more fuel. fuel burns best at 14-1 ratio , hitting this ratio just right is what you want . if you really want a good running engine buy a pre-matched set and you will really get some benefits, from the factory brand new ones can be really far apart in volume and patern. patern is the shape of the spray the injector puts out. when the patern gets off but the volume is still ok the motor will start to run funny the solvents clean a small disc in the injector that controls patern but its all about diminishing returns...at some point the injectors just need replacment   JMcD Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 09:42 am:    I dont think Marc's question was, "should I run fuel cleaner EVERY day?" He asked whether it is ok to use it. Dee said "not recommended" My dealer does recomend using cleaner, they even stock it. There is no doubt that the best way to clean an injector is to remove it, however I doubt the average guy is thinking "should I stick a $5 bottle of fuel system cleaner in my tank, or should I tear off the throttle body,intake plenum,ram housing,fuel rail and fuel injectors, test them, clean them and reinstall them? I have replaced my injectors myself, and while it was not terribly difficult, it is not what I would consider a routine maintenance item. BTW, 20 bucks to clean and test 8 injectors is a pretty good deal. Where is that Dee? I still have my old injectors and it would probably be worth the shipping charges to have them look at them. Thats just my opinion. JMcD   Dee Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:30 am:    JMCD, I understood his question, I was trying to recommend not using as a routine maintenance thing, 60 or 70K usually. I may not have been clear on the point. I see people dumping various bottle of cleaners with each tank full. The BG44K might be recommend by the dealer don�t know? If you run it while under warranty and it fry's the O2�s will they replace them? I could not find one ref to it in any of the TSB or manuals, If any has come across that let me know. I am basing this on first hand knowledge The quality of information of service from most dealers is widely varied. Ill trust my experience and family members who own a large repair center, And his opinion to clean is too remove. Also check your local shops somone has to have a Hydrostatic cleaner close by, to rebuild and match costs a bit more. Keep those old injectors there like gold... MTB funny on the stocking of O2 , I could see posting that and being call the king of the parts whore's, LOL   Tom P. Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:42 am:    Sandy, Leslie & those who cannot find BG44K, Last year I called BG Products direct, they gave me the name of the Regional Rep, to put me in touch with a local BG dealer. Yeah, I thought, this is going to be great. Well, the local BMW shop was only two miles from my house and the BG44K was $14/can. Go figure. Try to get a hold of the regional BG rep. His income depends on his distribution channels so he'll know who and where you can buy it from. Tom P.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:55 am:    Good thought..... I may just give 'em a ring and see where it'd be found, so I'd know for reference's sake. Thx.... -L   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 11:08 am:    DEE your right on old injectors being like gold the shops that are on top of this keep records on all the injectors they do so when they have a bad one they sometimes will use a used one from another vehicle to match into that set. because they do change as they get older putting just one new one in they wont match in most cases,so having a stock of used ones with there flow data they can match a used one into the set. bit of trivia...even though there are all kinds of injectors.....ford motor company owns the patent and recieves a royalty on everyone made.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 11:35 am:    >"bit of trivia...even though there are all kinds of injectors.....ford motor company owns the patent and recieves a royalty on everyone made." still? damn....no wonder they've been able to buy half the earth....   Dee Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:42 pm:    MM your right the 3.5 and 3.9 injectors are different thna the 4.0 4.6, I have a bag of the 3.5, 3.9 ones i would like to have a spare set of the newer ones.   BrianL Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 08:07 am:    I bought BG off the internet from a place called Ryno Performance. I found the link in the archives. It was $25 after shipping. I didn't see any huge improvements, so now I use some $5 a bottle stuff that Walmart carries (Prestone I think)   Dave M. Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 12:59 pm:    I run a can of injector cleaner through my car about every 7500 miles or so. Chevron w/ Techron is the best but I've also used STP and Gumout brands. Redlien makse one that is supposed to be very good as well. I've done this will all my cars for the last 15 years. This method and schedule was recommended to me by more then one mechanic and I have never had any injector problems.   Norm Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 02:10 am:    What's the consensus on octane boosters? The manual says to run 90+ octane in my '95 Disco (I usually run 93). However, sometimes when you're out in the sticks they only sell 89 or 87 octane, so would like to boost the octane in those situations. Thanks, Norm   Ron Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 12:59 am:    "fuel burns best at 14-1 ratio , hitting this ratio just right is what you want ." Ah but what do rovers run at? there is some triva for you Ron   Jason Vance (Jason) Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 01:23 am:    True, Ron. And while fuel burns best at 14:1, combustion chamber shape and cylinder pressure will ultimately effect the optimum air-fuel ratio an engine will operate at without detonation. In many engines, a 14:1 ratio will essentially be too lean; running a richer mixture will keep detonation at bay.