| Author |
Message |
    
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 09:47 am: | 
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Ok here are the final results of the leak down/compression test on my '96 Disco with 74K on it.
clylinder#
1-120 psi
2-155
3-150
4-125
5-150
6-150
7-140
8-145
compression is being lost from the breather case. oil was put back into cylinders and compression was back up.
leads us to believe that rings/pistons are in poor shape.
looks as only really 2 cylinders are off enough to cause any concerns. do you think i would really feel a difference with new rings with just 2 cylinders off?
taken from from my warranty:
"the repair of valves and/or rings, if the purpose of such is simply to raise the engines compression when a mechanical breakdown caused by the failure of a covered part has not occured. this is considered normal wear and tear, and not a mechanical breakdown."
what do you think? should i just leave the beast be or try and get a mechanic to do some creative writting and get this taken care of?
thanks |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:05 am: |
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fraud is always my first step. i read that since people fake claims we all have to pay more for insurance and warranties...
i interperate that to mean if you aren't taking advantage of the "system" you just aren't getting your dollars worth.
pick up a hitch hicker on the way. doing a good deed on the way to do a bad one confuses karma.
rd |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:14 am: |
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well the way i see it is that there is something obviously wrong with the truck which has nothing to do with "normal wear and tear." if the truck had 200K on it i would understand that, but since i only have 74K something is causing this to happen that may be mechanically related. but it may be hard to find out what the EXACT problem is in this situation. i am not saying he should fake a claim, but write it so that i have a better chance of getting it covered. these warranties are written by attorneys that are doing their best to get away with covering the least. i just want to get this taken care of if there is a legit way to do it.
hitch hiker? now way. i just have to remember we have freaks like you rob in this world and pass right by them!!  |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:25 am: |
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i mean i could have some deformed pistons. or it could be just worn rings. but i am not going to keep spending $$ to find out. i have done that enough. but apparently some work needs done. i am sure i could live with it and may not even notice a rebuilt bottom end. but i am looking down the road.......at 125K where will i be? i don't want to have to fork out $$ that my warranty company should have a year ago.
does this makes sense? |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 11:41 am: |
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sure Garrett, you've justified your impending fraud ...just slip the man a 20 and use the warranty you paid for. Don't hesitate to do what's right just because some assholes wrote 1001 back-out clauses into their product.
P.S. Rob's correct about the karma thing. I'm engaging the extended warranty on my wife's ford today, and this morning on the way to the office I rescued a kitten from a tree, helped a little old lady across the street, and looked a big-chested woman straight in the eye as I talked to her. I'm golden.... |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 11:46 am: |
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Yes Garret , get it fixed.... Fuel takes 85 PS to fire,,,,,you are 40 pounds away from having two dead cylinders...
Kyle |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 11:52 am: |
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GP - what'd your compression test cost you? |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 11:54 am: |
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Do it yourself Blue , ya pussy....
Kyle |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
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well i know the boys down the street with a nice Snap On tester. typically would maybe take an hour or so to do.......so about $55 from them i guess. i am a pussy regardless, so i had them do it. that and i don't have a kick ass set of tools like Spicoli's dad.
the whole karma thing? damn i better start working on that. i stare at ladies boobies all the time and i'm not 5'-5" either. i did raise some skunks and squirrels when i was younger. i did recue some kittens in a bag from Kyle's back porch too.
yeah i will try and get this done ASAP without minimal fraud. i mean there is a legit way to so this and i will do my duty as an ex-scout to honor that. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
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got any kids Kyle? I've got more money than spare time...
p.s. kiss my ass� |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
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sounds like a compression test not a leak down?
where are the time figures/percentage drop offs?
just what it peaks at tells you very little you need to know .
these numbers are not terrible for a 74k vehicle
hate to say it but this does sound like normal wear
BMW warranty spec call for more than a 25% desparety between cylinders...dont know what rovers spec is?
remember its not a race car it could live like this for another 150k no problem...does it rattle?
did you put 20/50 in it then test it?
also try a oil flush then new oil and retest,sometimes a sludged up ring will get cleaned up and start sealing better.
if its not rattling or knocking and the dealer wont pay for it IMHO dont dive into it these are not catatrophic numbers |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:16 pm: |
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Catastrophic numbers ? Not at all. But something aint right and most want their truck to be right. The boy is losing some power there too and you cant afford to lose much with these bricks..
Kyle |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:16 pm: |
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overall the truck runs fine. just hard to tell how much performance i have lost and don't realize it. have those honker NATO's on there with 32" tires. that will slow things down too i think. i mean i have had 2 of these trucks and know they are dogshit for moving along quickly.
just changed the oil before i ran the tests again. not sure what oil they used in the cylinders to bring the compression back up.
25% on BMW. damn that seems pretty high. i was thining along the lines of 15-20%.
no rattles either. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:18 pm: |
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And Blue bells , "Kiss my ass" ??? Is tat it ? I thought you were an educated type guy...
Kyle |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:29 pm: |
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ya gotta remember big auto-makers hate replacing engines.
yes the 25% suprised me to...but that was there spec back in 94 when I had the occurance of a hole in a aluminum block.
if it was a race motor anything more then 5% is tear it down time for most teams I know
some motors get as bad as yours after break in and live there whole life with that dissimilar numbers.
yes your losing power
alot?
I would say less then you could really tell with big tires and a heavy disco body.
go to 20/50 and check again...also put some lucas in there and your numbers will come up a bit
but if it aint rattling or rod knocking dont waste your money going inside...unless you did a rebore you may not get ANY improvement. might be the cylinders are a little oval and a rering might make it worse because the new rings wont reseat properly.
just start saving your $$ for a 4.6 build-up
by the time this one really dies you could have slowly built a 4.6 to slip in,then youd get the power you really want and have a complete fresh motor instead of an expensive band-aid on a 50% used moter |
yle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:32 pm: |
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Expensive band aid ? Hmm , yank one head and drop pan.... Thats a day job at best....
Kyle |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
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as for losing power. most noticable on long hill climbs on the highway. after a mile on a steep grade i have the turd in 2nd and just about to the floor. with the new tire/wheel setup i certainly lost a good amount there. some days seem to be better than others. off the line and around town i can tool around pretty nicely. passing pedestrians and bikers is a breeze, but above 55 mph hauling ass just does not happen.
4.6 would be swank. think my warranty company will go for that? haha. yeah sure. i am thinking more along the lines of a Hemi with a hood scoup. would work well with the white letters. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 12:57 pm: |
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yes kyle no doubt for a real good do it your self wrench
but if your paying someone to do it, that whole "Bottom end work" thing kicks in
to pull a head and pan at a stealer dealer will be 900 to 1000 in labor before your done
I can never figure out why but mechanics like to get things on the lift drop the pan and start writting big bills...must be because most people are afraid of bottom end work.
as far as expensive band aid.
it is tough to get new rings to seat in oval cylinders so IF thats why those 2 cylinders are dropping off it would take a bore job(expensive)to get them back in spec, just a hone and rering would not likely do much.
once again I say IF...till your inside its hard to tell whats really the cause
thats why i'd start with cheap band aids like the oil flush and thicker oil
that way you can get a better idea the cause before you make your final plan |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:16 pm: |
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well Kyle, my original p.s. read "pussy is what got me into this situation" (i.e. kids & no spare time), but I would never seriously consider posting something as politically incorrect as that on your fine public forum |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:38 pm: |
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Damn , forgot about that. Good thing you didnt actually say it then I guess.....
Kyle |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:51 pm: |
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I agree with Musky. If there were a greater difference say, maybe less than 100 PSI, I'd worry. While the BMW spec does seem a little wide, it isn't that far off of what one would expect to find in a vehicle with higher miles and unknown maintenance history.
Being bored at work, I cut and pasted the numbers into a spreadsheet and did some rough statistical analysis. While the absolute values appear widely disparate, the numbers are not varying that widely from the average. Someone who is even more bored than I might take some more time and conduct further analyses to prove me wrong.
As for the mileage, it wouldn't have been that long ago that most folks would have considered this vehicle ready to trade off.
Given the cost to correct this "Problem", I'm not sure that I wouldn't start saving my pennies and nickels and buy a compression tester... When the bad cylinders get down to 100 PSI, and the truck can't get out of the way of a TDi Jetta :-), then, perhaps some bottom end work might be in order.
Paul
who is afraid to check his compression:-) |
doug james (Dgj95lwb)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:05 pm: |
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In the mid eighties, I had a 5 series, bought new. At 15k mi, oil consumption was up to 150 mi per QUART. The cause was faulty valve guides.
BMW assured me-dealer and the national HQ office- that that was commercially acceptable. They never even contemplated fixing it. To add insult, I had to pay for a walnut blast to clean the valve stems.
Believe BMW ? You're kidding, right ?
Last BMW product I ever bought. Never looked back. Hello Benz, Hello LR, Hello Jaguar.
My RR has categorically, been the finest vehicle I have ever bought, in terms of reliability and overall quality.
Why are the LR victories seldom mentioned ?
Happy Rovering and Rovering, happily- doug james |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:05 pm: |
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Well when you arent dealing with much anyway. Every little bit counts. Also , yes , they should wear some. They should all be pretty close to wearing the same though..... Ring lip at the top of the cylinder should tell you if its the block. I am not inclined to think thats what it is...
Kyle |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:14 pm: |
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what's "normal" compression? 155-160? Starting with 155, 25% loss = 116. 116 is only 27% above 85psi min firing pressure. So the 25% loss puts you about mid-way between new & dead. GP's greatest diff is 22.6% loss from 155. |
doug james (Dgj95lwb)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:18 pm: |
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My 95 4.2 clusters around 158#, varies 3 psi. AT 101,000.... that's one hundred one thousand.
So your's is not very good. Contact the warr co. Two down by that amount will eventually stress and break the crank.
Kyles right, you don't have that much to begin with, then the mods...I love it, "I CAN go faster than pedestrians. Oh, and did I mention the bicyclists, too !" LOL
Fix now (warranty), in next 6 mos, or turn it. Best idea: build a 4.6 on your own schedule. The LR V-8 motor's a really smoooooth running engine, and you're totally missing out.
Or you could wait until they all get to 120....
heck, just wait 'til they get to 20 across the board. Yeah, that's it.
cheers-doug |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:19 pm: |
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yes. from what i am told 155-160 is. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:19 pm: |
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He could very easily have hydrauliced a few rings in the little Disco... A cracked compression ring here and there would make more sense then anything. I think the rainbow warrior takes his pretty white letters into the water from time to time......
Kyle |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:22 pm: |
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yeah the 4.6 would give me wood for a good while and i would love to got that route. and better i am not married and no kids! so it is all about ME!! lol. well more like my LR.
i am going to have a chit chat with the warranty co. and see what they say. just want to get as much info in front of me first, before i start talking with them.
thanks all. |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:27 pm: |
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that's just low kyle.....down right low.
ok how about a stuck ring. carbon fouled badly and sticking a bit on the piston. i have heard about this happening and causing low compression. shit i guess there are just too many variables.
i try to keep it dry and wet free. i don't like getting my toes wet.....it dries my skin out kyle and makes them look bad. not as bad as Blue's web feet, but bad. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:30 pm: |
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Very well could be carbon but any top end cleaner would take care of that pretty damn quick. I thought we were past that point ? You have done nothing to it so far ?
Kyle |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
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yeah i have run some Amsoil product through the truck a few months back. spray it in while the truck is running and emty the whole can baically. used some BG44K and an oil additive (cleaner) as well all around the same time. cleared my misfire codes though. use 93 octane too. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:37 pm: |
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Thats what I thought. You can try the top end cleaner for shits and grins but I dont think thats gonna clear it out....
Kyle |
Ron
| | Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 01:28 am: |
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My gut still tells me the valve are not seating properly but the added oil does point to rings. Top end cleaner only goes so far with carbon.
As they say there is only one way to be 100% sure. If the waranty will pony up I say to a valve job and check the rings (main bearings too, whats the oil pressure at?) If not I would live with it.
Tell them it is having serious driveablility problems.
Ron |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:33 am: |
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not sure where the oil pressure is at. something i have not checked. driveability problems? kinda like what happened up at Evans camp Ron? lol. |
JEspelien (Superj)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:19 pm: |
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Let me put this delicately, "I know a guy" who solved the bad case of reluctant warrantitis his Rover dealer had. He had a gems motor that rattled like an old 240D on cold starts which there are plenty of in this area. The dealer kept giving him the "normal piston noise" run around even when it started doing it at idle when fully warmed up. The truck was nearing the end of the warranty period so he drove the truck to his cabin for the weekend and left it out behind the shed with a full tank of fuel and a cinder block on the accelerator. It took a couple of hours but the problem miraculously became one the dealer couldn't ignore. Strangely enough the new motor has never exhibited any "normal piston noise", I counseled him to take it back and demand some |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 02:35 pm: |
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SuperJ, does the new engine leak oil? Now that is something your friend should demand!
Peace,
Paul |
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