Symptoms of a failing fuel pump?

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Author Message   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:42 pm:    What are the symptoms of a failing fuel pump? Or does the truck just die? (Scary). Just curious since mine is probably original with 164,000 miles on it. Larry   isaac fain (Searover) Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 07:51 pm:    sputtering, won't accelerate w/o "popping" noises, generally runs like crap, or seems to fall on it's face. other times it will just give up the ghost all at once, and won't let you restart the thing! mine died a slow death; was a cinch to pop in a new one, but i have the access plate ('91 rrc) doug repaired my old one with new brushes he found at a hobby-shop. IIRC, he used the carbon type brushes, but I don't recall exactly. He will probably chime in if he sees this thread - cheers isaac   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 08:36 pm:    Thanks for the info. My truck seems to "miss" a little at different RPM's with no apparent pattern. I'm pretty sure it's not plugs, wires, all that electrical crap. I originally thought it was bad fuel. I put in high-octane and ran some fuel cleaner through and it seemed to clear it up, for a while. Now I've noticed it is back and seems to be happening more frequently. Unfortunately I have a '90 so I don't have the access plate. I may take the time to make an access plate if I have to replace the pump. Can't be that hard. Thanks for advice. Larry '90 RRC '95 LWB   doug james (Dgj95lwb) Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 10:27 pm:    Hey Isaac: 164k, Heck, I'd do the pump as my next project !! Mine in an XJ6 was orig at 205k and apparently fine. That was pumping delivery demands of 20mpg hwy not 15, and average 16-17, not 13-14. Offset was dual tanks/dual fp. So yours-by that measure has done near 200-250k. Borrowed time I say, but failure, as Isaac mentioned, slow, not abrupt, and a nuisance the whole failing time. Parts-carbon brushes- at local hobby shop. Less than $5.00, only wear component. Allow 2-3 hrs plus removal time. cheers-doug   E Snyder Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 10:48 am:    Larry- Have you replaced the fuel filter?   isaac fain (Searover) Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 11:22 am:    erm, good catch Snyder! - i forgot that in addition to the bad pump, the filter was about 98% clogged. I could barely blow any air through it. now begins the saga of hooking up the fuel pressure guage, if you decide to go this route . . . i will try to locate the size of the fittings that go into the screw-in type filter when I clean up the shop today. took me about two weeks of hunting and piecing together enough hose and fittings to get a guauge to work in-cab. after all was said and done, I discovered that I was running my rangie around on only 7lbs of fuel pressure, instead of the 28-30lbs spec'd by the factory incidentally, my gas mileage was never better! slow was the only way it'd move around, and i was getting 14mpg out of it. these days i get between 10 and 12 (with a heavy right foot). -isaac   LR Max Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 11:27 am:    Larry, If the truck just cuts out with no apparent reason, check your coil. Is the tach. going up and down at idle? Does it not want to start sometimes in the morning? If one of your local shops can check a coil, try that. It might solve all of your problems. My .02 cents. Max T.   JEspelien (Superj) Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 11:39 am:    The diagnosis of a failing fuel pump is blindingly obvious: Low/unstable fuel pressure   jerry Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 12:39 pm:    so carbon brushes from a rc motor wil repair a fuel pump i have had rc cars for years and have rebuilt several motors on them is that all i need to do to repair a fuel pump? 95 discovery.   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 01:17 pm:    I changed the fuel filter about 2 years ago. I replaced the coil last summer and replace plugs about twice a year and the plug wires and cap and rotor were all replaced this last winter. The tach is perfectly stable at idle or any other RPM. I would be interested in checking fuel pressure though. I have never done this but have the factory manual and could probably figure it out. I would also have to get a guage. Also, it doesn't always cut out. Some trips it's fine, sometimes it is not. Never really a danger yet. Obviously it is more noticable when I get my foot into it. Larry   isaac fain (Searover) Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 01:53 pm:    yep - smells like the pump. the brushes wear down and start losing their contact with the commutator. as a result, when the ECU tries to supply more fuel to keep up with your right foot, the pump is not able to keep up and you lose power as the air/fuel mixture goes crazy. I will try to diagram out what I rigged up for the fuel pressure guage. It was a bit of a pain, but I like testing things before replacing them. Since the pump was ~200 bucks (I have the newer integrated type), a $40 guage seemed like a wise investment. I bought my guage from Napa - they had a really good one that included a couple of fittings and hoses to get started with. also, you'll need to be able to rig up the guage in-line so you can see the pressure as you drive; doing it statically just off the fuel filter doesn't tell you much, especially if it's running currently. i had replaced my wires, cap-n-rotor, plugs, cats, and o2's as well before doing the pump. The funny thing was that it kept running progressively better, and when the pump dropped in, felt like a dragster! I was so glad to have a running truck, I didn't complain about "lack of power" anymore he heh - cheers, -isaac   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 03:46 pm:    Isaac, you are the man. Along with everyone else here.... As long as your right that is! I would like to try and check the fuel pressure as I now have 2 Range Rovers and wouldn't mind diggin deeper into the repairs. Now the million dollar Question. Who has the best prices on a LR OEM fuel pump for a '90 RRC? I will have to drop the fuel tank to do this, but I will probably just make an access hatch while I am under there. Should only take me about an hour. Also, what are the measurments of the access hatches in the '91 and later RRC? Thanks all, Hopefully this is it. Larry   Ron Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 12:52 am:    "Now the million dollar Question. Who has the best prices on a LR OEM fuel pump for a '90 RRC?" do you have the integral sendor or no. If no a regular old GM pump will work (40-60 at the parts store 89 seville all you have to do is reverse the wires). If yes than most likely discountrovers. Ron   bryan Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 01:31 pm:    www.discountrovers.com   Mark Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 06:42 pm:    I thought I had a bad fuel pump because of lurching and intermittant loss of power at highway speeds, but it turned out to be a bad engine speed sensor on the transfer case. One key to IDing the problem would be lurch or loss of power without RPM changes.   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 09:48 pm:    Well, finally paid the dealer their hours labor to diagnose. They checked fuel pressure, regulator, TPS and fuel filter. Nothing really was found to be bad. They adjusted the TPS a little, but was not the problem. They thought they had fixed it, so I picked it up and drove to work. Problem still persist. I went right back to the dealership and talked with the mechanic. We went for a drive together and after I gave him the trucks history and a more thorough explanation of what was going on we both came to the same Conclusion. The Fuel Pump is on it's way out, just not there yet. At this point they gave me a terribly high estimate including the $470 fuel pump and I politely declined stating that I would return in a few weeks. I found the fuel pump for $199 at British Pacific and will be installing it next week. Anyone ever remove a fuel tank? Any advice would be nice. It seems like it would be pretty straightforward, but things are never straightforward. Thanks for all the advice. I will report if in fact the problem goes away. Larry   bryan Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 11:49 pm:    Larry check my post ../2/3864.html"#444444">   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 12:38 am:    Bryan, Thanks, that thread helps me swallow the $200 a little easier as the possible culprit. I have been meaning to replace the Fuel Pump for about a year now from fear it would leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere while wheeling. My PSI was about 30 when the dealer checked it. I am guessing that was with ignition on and engine off. I need to check manual and see if 34-3? is the acceptable range. Otherwise the symptoms are all there. If only I had that damn access hatch. Larry   bryan Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:15 am:    Larry, I guess I didn't realize your disco was older, try this page for access hatch info. http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/fuelpump.htm   Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 11:51 am:    Larry: If you can, send the pump back to the parts house. It is painfully easy to pop a new pump into the assembly and you're ready to go for less than half the price you quoted. I have a fuel pump from a '94 Mazda pickup truck and it only took me about two hours to swap, including convincing the parts guys I wasn't nuts. BTW- when you extract the actual pump from the assembly, it will bear a GM mark! OK, maybe AC-Delco. Somehow, I'm having a harder time convincing the wife the same thing though.   Larry Grubbs (Larryg) Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:03 pm:    Sorry I never made it clear. This fuel pump is for a '90 RRC, not a Disco. I put this in other post, just forgot for this one. Larry   bryan Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 11:55 pm:    Larry, The link I posted should be of great help then.