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Norm
| | Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 02:51 am: | 
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I recently changed out the swivel ball oil in my '95 Disco and noticed that the driver's side swivel ball had only a few ounces of oil drain out (other side had plenty of oil). Although the oil was dirty (last changed about 12K miles ago) I didn't notice any metal particles.
I looked down the filler hole and noticed a groove running perpendicular across the the middle of each of the outer splines of (what I'm assuming is) the CV joint. I refilled the swivel balls to capacity with Amsoil gear oil and have not noticed any leaks.
So far I haven't noticed any noises or problems associated with this (ignorance may be bliss). My question is, could I have any serious damage and how would I know if the CV joint or some other part has gone bad in there without tearing it down?
Thanks,
Norm |
hans b.
| | Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 07:33 am: |
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Theoretically: Some car parts like CVs are hardened during production (often a procedure involving heating). lack of lubrication usually leads to overheating of the relevant parts which is like an "undo" of the hardening. So a CV might have become weak. The same counts for bearings.
Practically: There are so many Land Rovers with low oil level in the swivel housings around, some have replaced some of the oil with water (not intentionally of course) one wonders how little oil is sufficient to do the job. So without inspection of the CVs one cannot tell (blue spots), but I wouldn´t bother an keep on driving, because probably nothing has happened. I am afraid you will have to disassemble the whole lot for inspection but even then nothing might be obvious (I dont think even an endoskope could help or be pushed into the housing).
As I said, dont bother ;) (if something fails then probably due to shock load rather than what you fear).
But where is your oil gone ? A leak from the big swivel ball seal is evident. But no oil there. A little oil might be in the hub but the only other possibility is that it went through the outer axle seal into the diff-oil. I think that is uncommon.
Why don´t you refill with the grease ?. Rover offers a nice one-shot-grey-semiliquid-grease-satchet (just enough to fill one housing). This was standard lubricant after a certain model year (aroung 95 ?)
regards,
Hans |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 10:20 am: |
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You probably did some damage by running it low on oil, however, if it was only 12 thousand miles, it might not be that bad. How much damage was done would be likely impossible to determine unaided-unless you have an electron microscope handy. When they are run dry, eventually, the balls will seize to the cage and the star and one will collapse-usually the cage. When this happens, first off, your only indication will likely be that the vehicle will not stay put in park on inclines as one wheel can now freewheel.
As the damage becomes worse, you will hear the noise of the ABS exciter ring striking the broken pieces of the cage-this will sound like a siren as you drive the vehicle. Eventually, the balls will come into contact with the edges of the swivel ball and housing, damaging the edges of the swivel ball and housing-this will become apparent at full steering lock. If I knew how, I could post pics of a catastrohic CV joint failure...
Given the fact that CV joints are relatively inexpensive (try Nathan or Dee) and fairly easy to replace, I would suggest replacement (but I'm painfully conservative), especially if you 'wheel much at all-the last place you need a blowed up CV joint is in the middle of the mud hole you thought you could make it through.
FWIW, I'm not a fan of the grease. I like being able to open up my swivel balls and know how much oil/water was in there. Gear oil is very inexpensive if you don't buy it in the nifty quart jugs.
BTW-don't worry about the grooves until you hear parts bumping into each other inside the swivel ball.
Good luck
Paul |
hans b.
| | Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 01:41 pm: |
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Paul,
yes, grease has the disadvantage that draining water through the drain plug is probably not straightforward. But the level is easily checked - remove filler plug put steering to full lock (right for right swivel) and lower a strong wire into the fluid.
I agree with you that oil is better for regular off roaders with lots of wading. (To my shame I rarely go off road and the grease is alright for me).
For the CV, I think the little rest of oil ensured a minimum of lubrication as long as the CV joint could dug into it and throw it around in that swivel housing, still - an expedition in mind changes things. Better safe than sorry.
Changing it before is safer. But perhaps I would take the risk having always a spare one (?one extra) with me on trips. As you say, they are easy to replace. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Friday, May 24, 2002 - 02:07 pm: |
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A pipe cleaner works better for determining levels.
Peace,
Paul |
Norm
| | Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:41 pm: |
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Thanks for the info, guys!
Have one more question: Are those teeth on the outside of the CV joint (visible through the swivel ball filler hole) what sets off the ABS sensor in a lock up?
If so, with the groove worn down the center of mine, no wonder my ABS has gone haywire with "excessive air gap."
Thanks,
Norm |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:51 pm: |
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Well now, you got me Norm... I know that the visibility is severely limited in this environment, but can you tell if the groove is uniform all the way around as though it was machined, or does it look like it was damaged by foreign objects in the swivel housing?
I would doubt that the groove would give you an error code as it would still very likely be enough to tell the ABS ECU that the wheel is turning (really, that is all it is doing). I was under the impression that the air gap dealt with the spacing of the sensor to the ring, and not necessarily due to an inconsistent exciter ring.
FWIW, I have installed ABS sensors several times and have NEVER had an error code the first time. After completely removing the ABS sensors from their bushings, I gently drive them back into the bushing until they are almost bottomed out.
Good luck.
Paul |
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