| Author |
Message |
    
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 06:18 am: | 
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How it started:
Doing 60ish on the freeway, with the temperature gauge occasionally climbing then dropping, the engine shut off for a second. It fired up again on it's own. Then THUNK... something locked up, as if a bearing froze or if a brake locked.
After pulling over and letting the engine cool, it fired up without a problem. Since I was about 7 miles from a friend's house, I limped at 15mph with a loud grinding noise. My first impression was the transmission, the transfer case, right front CV joint, or bearings
Had it towed home. Checked the right front CV joint and bearings, looked good.
The current symptoms are:
I can drive it up to 50mph when cold. However, once warm, it starts to make that loud grinding noise. It is reminiscent of worn out brake pads, metal to metal. Of course, it does it with or without me stepping on the brakes. It also does it regardless of whether the transmission is in drive or neutral.
Your ideas, as always, are appreciated.
Javier
Side note: Ax/Ho/Kyle, is •••••• (t-r-a-n-n-y) a bad word to the Discus software? My preview screen displayed 6 red asterisks. I tried some other curse words and they came up fine  |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 08:41 am: |
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•••••• < must be |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 09:12 am: |
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Heh, no more t ranny, eh? Kyle was just complaining he hates the word trannny! No more t-r-a-n-n-y! |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 09:49 am: |
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Sounds like a water pump or idler pully , Not the TRANSMISSION............
Kyle |
TCarr
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
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Yep, get a 36" long piece of garden hose, one end to yer ear, other to find the source of the noise. Sort of a stethescope... |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 11:37 am: |
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check power steering pumpy too. |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 12:16 pm: |
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hmmm, I read Rob's write up of t-case bearing replacement. Has anyone else replaced theirs? If so, under what conditions was it replaced?
Was it grinding, seized or otherwise?
Javier |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:43 am: |
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FYI, the grinding appears to have come from my transfer case.
I started to follow Rob's instructions. I removed the front driveshaft, then proceeded to drain the gear oil, shit, it was almost empty! Also, there were metal shavings/debris on the magnetic drain plug 
Tomorrow, I'll be buying a big flange nut socket to take the bearing out. Damn t-cases costs upwards of $800, used!
Heed my warning: if your rig has high miles, check your t-case oil level. I'm hoping and praying I did not cause severe damage.
Javier |
BMac66
| | Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:54 am: |
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Isnt trannny short for transvestite? Like you'd want one of them in ya Disco - although.... |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:03 am: |
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Javier,
If it is your T-case I can talk you through a rebuild. They are tough units and easy to get apart and back together. I have been meaning to cross referece the bearings like I did with the R380 •••••• so I guess this gives me and excuse
You can find one used in the 400 range no problem. Before you spend 800 call me and I will sell you mine for 600
•••••• •••••• •••••• ah shit I said ••••••
Ron |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:08 am: |
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Oh, I would not bother taking the flange nut off. It it was either of the output bearings that exploded it would be obvious as there would be massive play in the driveshaft. Take the whole thing out or at the very least pull the bottom cover off and have a look see. Chunks mean a bearing exploded as long as it was one of the ones on the output gear cluster (I think that the right term) disassembly and reassembly if fairly easy. If you messed up something on the inpit or intermediate cluster it is more of a PITA
Ron
email me and I will send you my number to call if you need help evilfij (at) yahoo.com |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:10 am: |
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input not inpit
Good luck
Ron |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:36 am: |
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Thanks, Ron...
I just read your posts. That's a good ide, to remove that bottom cover. I'm going to do that first thing tomorrow morning. BTW, where is the filler plug?
I've removed the flange nut, the circlip and the oil seal. The bearing appears to have sustained a little damage. The ball bearings themselves do not seem smooth, as if some debris caused etchings on them.
I'm stuck on the "remove old bearing" step. The damn thing does not want to come all the way out. I used the same hooks that Brian did. If you are planning on doing this in the future, WEAR GLOVES. I sliced up my index finger with one of those hooks...
Also, does anyone know who makes or where can I rent/buy the slide hammer that will do the trick? Autozone here in Van Nuys, CA 'loans' tools free of charge, with a deposit. However, the tool they had and all others I've seen would not work.
The problem is that the slide hammers and bearing extraction tools I've seen today have hooks that are too large. All were designed for bearings with the outside exposed. Since the Rover ••••••, oops, transfer case has the bearings inside a cylinder (for lack of the correct term), you have very small openings from which to extract.
Side notes for anyone reading Brian's instructions:
1) It was Brian Jackson, not Rob that did the writeup in Tech/"T-case bearing", sorry Brian
2) Brian used a 1 3/16" socket, I used a 32mm socket wrench, same effect, a little loose but works
3) Thin chisel works best to remove oil seal, slices it up
4) Wear gloves when using those cute little hooks, see above
Javier |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:38 am: |
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Thanks, Blue for the info about the filler plug.
Javier |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 02:12 am: |
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Javier,
Like I said you probably have more issues so first thing pull the bottom cover off (I hope you have alternate transportation) and look/prod around. A shot (disintergrated) bearing will present itself as you will be able to move the gearset it is attached to.
Brian's way only works if the bearing has not welded itself on and even then it is iffy as to it working or not. You are supposed to take the front output housing off and hammer it out from behind (which is easy). I can't see how a slide hammer would work.
Like I said pull the cover first. It is only 8 or so bolts and then you will know what you are dealing with a lot better. some of the bolts are blue loctitied on but are easy to remove. You can just RTV it when you are done.
first check the front and rear output housing bearings by seeing if there is play in driveshafts up or down.
Push the gears and see if there is any play up and down, if non is present spin the t-case and see if anything spins excentricly (ie wobbles)
I have the manual and a case right here so I can talk you through anything.
Ron |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 10:19 am: |
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Javier:
The damage to the bearings could be caused by heat and momentary tiny bits of the bearing welding themsleves to the race or cage. What you are seeing is almost certainty a bearing on the verge of seizing... and then grenading. You should have seen the pitting and discoloration on the wheel bearings I pulled from my Brother in law's rangie after the CV joint exploded! I believe they were shiny and smooth before being run dry!
As for removing the bearings using a slide hammer puller, I have made many slide hammers for driving parts in and removing stuck parts. I am fortunately not as familiar with the bearings and such you are trying to remove, however, I can make some suggestions for slide hammers. I have had great luck using vise-grips as slide hammers. Remove the threaded thumb screw that is used to set the vise action and replace it with a piece of all-thread. On the opposite end of the all-thread, screw a nut, a washer, and another nut. Between the nuts and the vise-grips, place a pipe nipple and floor flange (the floor flange is to keep your fingers away from the nuts on the end...). Voila, you have a slide hammer that can pull anything you can grip with a pair of vise-grips. With the various sizes and configurations of the vise-grips, you might be able to find something that will get a grip on the part.
••••••!
Good luck,
Paul |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 02:02 am: |
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Thanks for the info, Paul. I will try the vise grips as you suggest.
Ron, I may just go for your transfer case if I find it is toast.
I'll keep you posted. Agin, thanks to all who replied.
Javier |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 12:54 am: |
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Yet another update to this post.
My attempts to change the bearing on the transfer case were in vain. The transfer case is shot with a large 3/8" hole in the housing. All oli leaked out and, to make matters worse, the •••••• fluid also leaked out completely.
If you have a transfer case to sell, contact me asap.
Javier |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 01:16 am: |
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where is the hole in transfer case?
Talk to me Javier.
evilfij (at) yahoo.com
Ron |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 12:31 am: |
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Ron,
It's opposite the transfer case cover, on the housing's passenger side. I'll upload a pic as soon as I get some batteries in my digital camera.
Javier |
Ron
| | Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 03:14 am: |
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I sent you my phone number on Sat. Give me a call. If it is just an output housing that can be replaced.
Anyway, I do have a case out of a disco I could sell to you if you can't fix yours.
Ron |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 02:20 am: |
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Ron,
I cracked open the t-case cover. There were remnants of a bearing at the base of the housing. Obviously, there was next to no oil to drain. Also, all the teeth on the gears looked in tact. I let the car roll a few inches at a time to watch the gears rotate.
So, for the count, I need a new front shaft bearing and oil seal, however many oil seals between input shaft and •••••• and lastly one or two bearings on the input cluster of gears.
So I'm thinking I may try to fix this problem myself.
I know Ron has dropped a transfer case without dropping the entire ••••••, so his (and anyone else's) input is greatly appreciated.
I'll be taking pics along the way to illustrate the steps I take.
Cheers!
Javier |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 01:59 am: |
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Update:
I've installed a transfer case from a '99 DII. It actually works with only a new, longer spline input shaft.
I also had to buy a M14(1.5? thread) bolt to cover some unknown hole.
That's the good news. The bad news is that on the day that I last posted, my transmission leaked out all fluid and I lost power and reverse. There was also a mysterious 3/8" hole on the t-case. Hence, the "new" t-case
So now, I'm on a quest to find out how to fix my •••••• without replacing the whole thing.
I'll post this problem in a separate thread. A friend told me something about replacing "belts" that drive first gear and reverse. Has anyone experienced this?
Javier |
Ron
| | Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 02:15 am: |
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"So now, I'm on a quest to find out how to fix my ������ without replacing the whole thing."
Hey Javier, good to hear the LT230 bolted on.
You said you did need to change the input gear or that it was just longer?
Did you try just refilling the •••••• with new fluid? Did the output shaft seal on the •••••• look like it leaked (and ergo I hope you replaced it). I know nothing about internal zf repairs so I am of no help there but I can find out more if you need help (I know of a couple people who do know how to rebuild zfs)
Ron
PS your friend I believe is wrong. There are no belts in a zf. The function of belts is taken over by the case itself (or so I am told). Anyway, good luck. |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 03:39 am: |
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Thanks Ron...
I did replace the ATF with synthetic ATF. I also replaced the output shaft seal.
The shaft was from the same DII. Although it is identical in length, it does have longer splines. Otherwise, the t-case does not mate all the way into my DI's ••••••.
The test drive went fine until the truck warmed up. Then, stepping on the gas caused it to barely move. If I shift it into a lower gear from "D", it moves faster. Also, when the engine is cold, reverse works fine. Once it warms up, I have no reverse.
I was reading archived posts and some fixed it with a new transmission filter, others suggested the "governor" be replaced.
Thanks for all the great help, Ron. It is much appreciated!
Javier |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 01:31 am: |
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Damn that sucks Javier.
Good to know about the shaft.
Maybe start a new post. Auto •••••• rebuilds is beyond me and I know ZF parts can be prohibitively expensive. You could drop the pan and see how bad the junk built up is. Maybe ask Kyle as he preportedly worked in a trans shop.
Ron
BTW synthetic trans fluid is not a good idea. Use the cheap stuff on the older trucks |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 01:55 am: |
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Hey Ron,
Well, after actually RTFWM (reading the freakin workshop manual), I think I'm going to try replacing the •••••• oil filter tomorrow.
It's the cheapest, easiest way to start the troubleshooting process.
I bought a new filter, but the workshop manual suggests you "clean oil screen and blow out with an air line". Since the filter itself is wire mesh rather than a paper/cloth type, it makes sense. Unless the screen/filter is damaged and has gaping holes from the debris.
Kyle, what is your opinion?
The fun never ends
Javier |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 02:01 am: |
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And when you change the filter you will be able to see how bad it is in there. If the clutches burned up you will see lots of gunk.
You need a new gasket and preferably two new o rings. For the price of a filter I would put the new one in.
Ron |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 10:11 pm: |
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Ron,
I've replaced the •••••• oil filter along with a new gasket and O rings. The problem has remained. FYI, I was able to loosen the Y pipe bolts just before they came off. Then I loosened and moved aside the crossbar. It was just enough space to take off the •••••• oil sump.
So, the problem is... there is no reverse and when at a standstill, giving it gas barely moves the truck. If I put it in 1 from D, then it moves normally and I can manually shift.
Also, when in neutral and the engine is on, it seems the truck is still in park because it won't move. If I turn off the engine, I can then move the truck using the Fred Flinstone method.
Thanks for the tips!
Javier |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 04:43 am: |
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Ron,
Here's the latest and hopefully final update to this problem.
I purchased a transmission from a guy in San Diego, CA who was parting a '98. I picked it up two weeks ago and installed it this last weekend.
Knock on wood, my truck seems to be back to normal.
Thanks, Ron for all your help.
Javier |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 12:33 pm: |
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Damn, Javier...you are one persistent bastard! Good goin. Now let's meet at truckhaven and go wheelin.... |
Javier Velador (Jvelador)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 02:43 pm: |
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ha ha, persistent, yes... It was oh so painful to see my truck on the driveway with a shot t-case and a problematic transmission.
I wanted to post my progress to assist others who may experience this in the future. Especially since many of our warranties are expiring and us CBs will have to do our own repairs.
Truckhaven?? I'm so there!! Same place and dates!!
Javier |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 07:55 pm: |
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Cool Javier.
Being a CB takes time but it is better than 8k for a new trans and t-case at the dealer.
Ron |
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