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cooper
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 11:12 pm: | 
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I seem to have a large amount of thick, heavy fluid leaking onto my wheels, well, at least one of them. I think it might be a cracked seal, swivel ball or something, i really dont know. It looks like diff. fluid, but its everywhere, inside/outside of wheel, tire, very thick and hard to get off.. I'm assuming its probably a cracked seal. How hard is it to replace the seals. They're not very expensive, but getting to them is out of my range. THANKS. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 11:29 pm: |
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hmm, good question. |
jp
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 02:29 am: |
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Front or rear or both? Only one wheel? If multiple wheels, suspicious - overfilled diffs?
If front only, inside of tyre, probably from swivel joint seal - b@stard to do. If outside of wheels also, hub seal. Is there any free play in the hub of the dirty wheel- if so correct, clean, watch for more leaks. ALso check tightness of the drive flanges - 5 bolts holding shaft to wheel hub - there is a gasket that can leak there.
Only hard part of getting hubs off is having the big socket like tool to undo the hub nut - a round thing with 4 notches in it. There is some important info in a service bulletin about changes in the tightening procedure for hub nuts, in the last couple of years.
Basically:-
1. jack, pull wheel.
2. remove drive shaft bolts, pull shaft out.
3. remove disc caliper, hang out of the way.
4. knock back tab washer under nut, undo nut, pull hub off
5. replaces seals, bearings as required, replace grease etc.
6. reassemble correctly with lastest procedure, check end float, bend tab over nut!
7. refit caliper.
8. refit drive shaft, new gasket etc.
9. refit wheel, lower, road test
Basically same front and rear, only diff is the way the drive shaft comes out - short stub at front, long straight at the rear.
jp |
Frode H�bertz Haaland (Discofrode)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 05:17 am: |
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Depends whether it's inside or outside you find the fluid...
Also check for blocked breather - pressure building up can relieve pressure through good seals!
Chk swivel ball-seal procedure on Ottos pages:
http://home.halden.net/discovery
Roverly Yours, Frode |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 10:08 am: |
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Only hard part of getting hubs off is having the big socket like tool to undo the hub nut - a round thing with 4 notches in it.
WHAT? I just did this and I used a standard six-point socket. Big-ass socket, but not the hub nut tool one would find on Jeeps. Some (many) have said a pair of channel-locks will work but that's not for me.
Basically same front and rear, only diff is the way the drive shaft comes out - short stub at front, long straight at the rear.
WHAT? The rear does not have the snap-ring for the CV joint that has to be removed to gain access to the bearings/hub. As for the driveshafts, what the hell do you mean short stub in front and long straight one in the rear?
Same comments hold for your comments about the swivel ball seals.
Have you ever done these tasks, or did the guy who sold you the crack pipe describe it to you?
I'd rather have Perrone help me out.
Now, to answer Cooper's comments.
First off, we need to know if the problem is front or rear. You questioned if it could be a swivel ball seal so I will assume it is the front. Yeah, I know, it took a genius to figure that one out. I will also assume that it is a DI-again, takes a genius.
Grease can be ejected from the differentials in a number of different ways and from a number of different sources. Now that we know it is on the front of the vehicle, it narrows things down quite a bit. It is unlikely that the grease is coming from the diff itself, and more likely to be coming from the swivel housing. The fortunate thing is that none of these are things you can't do yourself, in spite of your comment. If you don't mind getting dirty, you can do this!
First thing to look for is the oil collecting on the inside or outside of the wheel? If outside, there are far fewer sources for this material to be coming from. Since you've siad it's everywhere, it complicates thigns, but the grease could also have been flung around pretty heavily leading you to think it was coming from everywhere when in reality, it could be a small source.
Outside:
Check drive flange bolts and condition of the gasket between the hub and the drive flange.
Inside:
This is where it gets potentially fun. There are far more sources inside than outside.
If the oil is coming from the top of the swivel housing, suspect bad ABS bushing. I have seen oil ejected out this bushing that really looked a lot worse. Very little disassembly required.
If the oil is coming from behind the wheel, closer to the hub, you may have a bad stub axle gasket-easy to fix, requires disassembly of the hub.
If you have oil dripping from the back of the swivel housing, it could be the swivel seal. This is not the evil task many make it seem. It's not really all that time consuming.
If you have oil dripping between the swivel and the differential, it could be the swivel ball to axle housing gasket. Again, easy to fix, just requires complete disassembly of the front end.
Also, if it is a swivel seal, it is unlikely that it is cracked. From what I have seen, the greatest cause of failure of these seals is corrosiona nd pitting on the surface of the swivel ball causing hsarp edges which catch the edge of hte seal and tear it. It appears to me that the corrosion is occurring when the vehicle has been allowed to sit for a lengthy period of tiem and water is caught that then corrodes. If storing your vehicle for any length of time, dry off the swivel balls and coat the exposed surfaces with a heavy grease.
Believe it or not, I have seen major problems with stub axle seals also, but this requires hub disassembly to inspect. |
cooper
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 01:37 pm: |
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OK, i wasn't clear on whether it was the front or rear. I said swivel ball for some unknown reason, o yeah, lack of sleep for the past two days. It's the rear left tire. Damn, i feel bad now, you just wrote me a whole summary for the front. I took the tire off and it was covered inside and out with this thick substance. When i drive it slings it everywhere and its a Bee with an itch to get off. That should make things easier, sorry. But, thanks for the replies. I live in a small town and the local foreign shops love to rip people off. |
cooper
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 01:40 pm: |
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One more thing while i'm at it. How do i get the stains off of my wheels. The grease that is spewing out is so thick that it stained my wheel a nice honey color. WD40, nope. Soap and water, nope. Flame thrower, thinking about it. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 03:42 pm: |
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Cooper:
This in some respects makes it easier, but in another it becomes confusing.
The differentials should be filled with 80W/90 gear oil. If you're losing it out of the diff. CHECK YOUR OIL LEVELS!!! Bad things happen when they are run dry.
As for the rear end, it is pretty much similar to the front, without the swivel ball issues. I'm working from more distant memory here.
The rear end has two ways you can lose diff oil-drive flange of the axle and the seal where the axle leaves the diff housing.
You have stated that it is a grease. If it is a grease and not an oil, it must be coming from the bearings of the hub. Here, it can only come from one of three places, the seals between the axle and the diff housing (2 of them), or the drive flange/axle.
When you removed the wheel, was there any indication of where it was coming from?
Check the fluid level in the diff-it's a big pipe plug. use your 1/2" ratchet, remove the plug and sitck your finger in the hole (good thing this isn't the D-90 board:-). The oil level should be right at the plug level. If it is full, your problem lies elsewhere.
I'm beginning to think you might have a bearing problem, but not to worry, they should be a Timken set #37-much cheaper than OEM.
Take the wheel off and investigate furthur, take two aspirin, drink a Guinness and check back and I'll try not to mislead you any furthur.
To clean up, try Dawn dishwashing detergent.
Peace,
Paul |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 03:53 pm: |
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FWIW, I happened to have PB Blaster on hand, and it does a great job getting anything off of the wheels. I wouldn't have bought it for the job, but, I keep the stuff around for the Series.... it puts WD-40 to shame. I wouldn't leave it on there too long, just to be cautious, supposedly the alloys have a protective wax-like coating that's easy to strip off. Anyway....
IMHO, YMMV.....
-L |
cooper
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 09:15 pm: |
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OK, i removed the wheel and the five bolts that stick out, the ones you screw your lug nuts into, and the base that they are mounted on, was covered in the substance. But, behind that was clean or at least not saturated. It just seems to be visible when you first take the wheel off what you see is greasy and covered, its a thick substance, but everything behind that seems to be ok. I couldn't find where it was coming from without taking more apart. When i drive it slings it all over my wheels.
I'll try the dawn, but the wheels are coated with the clearcoat, i dont want to strip that off, but they are stained. THAMKS FOR THE HELP. |
PerroneFord
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:11 am: |
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If the dawn doesn't work, buy some citrus degreaser like orange oil. I use the foaming kind for tuff stuff. The real industrial strength stuff has the stripping power of gasoline without all the drawbacks. Try you local janitorial supply.
Why did you remove the bolts that the lugnuts go on to? Did your manual indicate that? I've never removed mine and frankly would be afraid to for fear of losing one on the road later.
-P |
cooper
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:20 pm: |
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Sorry, bad grammar, i didn't remove the bolts the lugs go onto to. Just trying to let you visualize what was covered. I'll try the orange stuff. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 01:48 pm: |
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Cooper, sounds like a bad axle flange gasket.
Remove the tire and the five bolts on the end of the hub. Carefully withdraw the axle. Scrape the mating surfaces, install new gasket with either hi-tack or hylomar. Reinstall axle and torque the flange bolts. I believe that Perrone said that the correct torque was as tight as he could get them using a 3/8" ratchet without really bearing down on it. Should you break one, they aren't that hard to get out, and you can always get a new hub, although it would likely be fairly expensive.
You're probably looking at a one hour job and that includes the time to look the parts up in any of a number of catalogs (or you could always make a gasket from a manila folder), find the floor jack, get the jack stands out, open a beer, leer at neighbor woman while she washes her car, realize you lost the correct size socket, promise to buy gifts for the wife after she saw you leering at the neighbor woman... Should be an easy fix that won't take much time, nor tax your abilities.
A few of these fixes that most people would be scared to death to do and you'll be telling folks how to work on their Rovers. The baton is yours-do good with it.
It would probably be a good idea to replace the brake pads and repack the wheel bearings while you're in there.
Oh yeah, don't worry about the clear-coat. It WILL NOT come off easily.
Let us know how it goes.
peace,
Paul |
cooper
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 03:50 pm: |
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Alright, i'm going to try this whole process that i see before me. Replacing shocks, springs, brake pads, steering components, i can do. I've never worked with anything that involves fluid or packing the hubs or gaskets, but, ya'll make it sound so easy (and thats a good thing). And taking it to a mechanic who WILL charge incredulous abounts of money would be a cardinal sin. Hmm, should i go ahead and do both sides while i'm at it? |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 04:20 pm: |
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In most cases, I would suggest doing just that, however, it sounds as htough you may have ahd something unique happen to this side, hence, I don't know that I'd do it this time.
Don't forget to check the diff fluid levels! |
cooper
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 05:08 pm: |
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I'll check the diff. fluid level and go from there. If it helps any, i cleaned the wheel to a shine, drove around the block and when i got back there was fluid or grease or whatever already on my wheel. Seems to be coming from in between the wheel and the hub plate. Where the lower shock mount is, lower spring plate, right in that area is all clean. It's on the other side it seems. No lie though, i can't drive for more than 5-10 miles or my whole wheel is covered. Seems i have a problem. |
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