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Robert Sublett (Rubisco98)
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 06:32 pm: | 
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Hello all, the front left swivel on the Disco is leaking pretty badly. I'm getting ready to add some fluid as I've just noticed this after about 2000 miles of driving this week. My question to you all is, how in the heck do I take this stuff apart and put in a new seal? Never had to do anything of this nature so all the help you could give up would be greatly appreciated such as Explicit instructions, any diagrams or pictures, etc.. Oh, and I'm finally going to get some springs and shocks, just have to decide on which ones to get. I'm teetering between the std. HD OME setup and RoverTym.. Anyhow, please let me know what parts I need, I'll call Nathan at Discountrovers and get the stuff from him. Thanks in advance.. Robert Sublett |
CEJB
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 08:14 pm: |
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Rob: It aint easy get a haynes and see if its for you. |
Dee
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 08:14 pm: |
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I would drain the fluid and replace it with the Swivel Housing Grease (STC3435.Replaceing the seal is a major job. Me I would try the grease first that should fix it for a while if the seal is not dammaged. Then plan to change it out next time you do the rotors.
Also are you sure its the seal it could be slinging grease from the hub seals or the abs sensor seal could be leaking. I would pull the tire clean it all then check.
Good Luck |
Dee
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 08:18 pm: |
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There is a short term fix out there you cut the top of the seal, this will allow you to put it in place with out removing any thing then you silcone the gap. I would class that as a trail repair.
Its posted somewhere... CEBJ is right is is a tough job if you have all the good tools and a mother if you dont.. |
My UK
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 05:55 am: |
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Landrover now recommend swivel hub should be filled with the CORRECT TYPE of grease. Drain the oil via lower plug and fill with grease through upper hole [not the level plug]. NB. Turn the wheel onto full-lock or the grease will not go into the reservoir.
In UK we use 'Genuine Part. One Shot Swivel Housing Grease STC3435'. Comes in a plastic sleeve incorporating a syringe to help get it into the swivel. |
Robert Sublett (Rubisco98)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 08:14 am: |
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Thanks for the info guys, I'm going to try and score some grease today if I can. If not, I'll get to it next week. Thanks again for all the useful info.. Peace.. RS |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 09:12 am: |
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As usual, I disagree with the previous posters. Swapping swivel ball seals isn't that big a job and will likely only take about four hours the first time. In addition, if you do any off-roading at all, I would stick with the 90wt.
While replacing swivel ball seals does require disassembly of the entire front end on the side you're working on, it does come apart pretty easily. If it's leaking badly enough that you want to fix it, pick up some new bearings and maybe even a CV joint depending upon the mileage.
If you wish to do this as a down and dirty quick job, you really only have to remove the bolts holding the swivel ball to the axle tube and pull the halfshaft along with the swivel ball, remove the collar around the seal, replace the seal and bolt it all back together. Twelve bolts in all this way.
Merely putting grease in place of 90wt. is a poor band-aid that will come back to haunt you after all of the grease eventually oozes out and you don't notice it thinking the grease will never leak out.
Paul |
Don
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 11:26 am: |
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land rover recommends the new grease as a result of warrenty issues.if you go off-roading with the new grease and get water in the swivals(very common).you will not be able to drain and refill it as you would with gear oil.also if it leaking now the new grease will probally still leak just slower.the post above is the easiest way to replace the seal and you wont be changing your swival preloads.and use gear oil if you go off-road. |
Dee
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 11:48 am: |
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Paul, consider if this was your first ever repair on a Rover would it be easy? 4 hours for a novice for both seals i dont think so, Hell id be hard pressed on that time with out a lift...
I have not looked up the labor times but ill bet it's up ther in the 5 to 6 hour
As far as working on Rovers nothing is hard if you have the toool and the moxy to do it..
PS never had the grease ozze out and the late model Rovers are so equiped, Has there been a rash of CV faliuyres to force a recall? |
Dee
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
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I do agree if the seal is bad the grease upgrade will only be short term fix, and water will still get in. I hate that the newer knuckles do not have a drain plug on the bottom to ease drain. next time im down there i want to drill and tap a NPT plug..
I find it hard to believe that water will displace the heavy grease as easy as lube oil?? Working around heavy machinery in wet environments for 20 + years, I have to question that? Is the new grease a synthetic based? |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 01:27 pm: |
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Dee:
First off, accept my apologies for trying to encourage someone to work on their own truck, rather than instantly run to the dealer or a shop. I really hate to hear folks make either of those statements without describing what is required so that the person with the problem can try it. After having worked on multiple examples of most of the domestic manufacturers, I think I can say with some degree of confidence (won't claim to have any authority to make that comment-don't wish to invite being flamed:-) that I have never worked on a vehicle that is unarguably as easy to work on than the Rover.
Yes, I do think it can be done in four hours per side. The hardest part is the axle tube bolts are so damned tight and there is insufficient access to allow easy use of a ratchet.
Get jack and stands, jack up car.
Remove tire/wheel
Disconnect caliper and remove ABS sensor
loosen the seven bolts that hold the swivel to the axle tube.
Withdraw halfshaft and swivel
Remove five bolts holding swivel seal collar in place
Remove swivel seal and replace collar
Carefully feed halfshaft back into axle tube.
Tighten seven 14 m/m 12-point bolts to mount swivel to tube.
Replace caliper and ABS sensor
Remount tire
Lower jack
Refill swivel housing with lubricant of choice
Drive away.
And, while this was not my first Rover repair, it was probably up there in the first five or ten.
IMHO, the hardest part of working on a Rover is having to give up and take the vehicle down to work on it. I really think the only thing that would stop me from taking on a job would be if I did not have a means to deal with a heavy part, otherwise, they are really, really easy to work on and I want to emphasize it as much as I can.
Paul |
Dee
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 02:44 pm: |
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Paul,
4 Hr per side is a fair time I though you were talking total time, I was going to give you the Mr. Good Wrench award, I still like wrenching on my MBZ much better than the Rovers, its all nuts and bolts just a better engineered approach. YES I am the first one to encourage folks to do there own work with in reason but people need to know there limits and sometime doing it them self is more costly in the long run. As for me I would never own a Rover if I had to Pay retail for parts or take it elsewhere to get it fixed...
Supplies you forgot, never work on a rover dry a 12 pk of good cold beer always make it go easier..
Now stop chatting and go build the relocation Kit LOL |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 03:02 pm: |
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Dee:
I'm at work, feverishly trying to make some degree of sense out of data that I suspect is mostly noise...
As for the other, we're almost there, the bid on the building came in well below the $20K the bank had allocated for a building.
Peace,
Paul |
Robert Sublett (Rubisco98)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 03:18 pm: |
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Wow, thanks for the heated debate on my issue of concern. Paul, you really sound like you know what you are talking about, and since I am off road some and hopefully more in the future since I'm ready for the lift, the grease ultimately would not be a good idea and the thought of water displacement/drainage of the swivel never occured to me. Am I mistaken in thinking that this is how the front and rear diffs of the D2 are set up now a days? If so, I'd have to say that isn't the best idea. I guess that I'll order my parts from Discount Rovers this week. I'll not be able to get to it until weekend after next though. At least I changed my oil and filter today. Paul, please advise on what parts I need to order from Nathan at Discount Rovers.. Peace.. RS |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 04:01 pm: |
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OK, first off, the DII has a completely different front-end setup, much more like that you would find on say, a Chevrolet truck.
My opinion is that LR got tired of yuppies complaining about swivel leaks and they took the easy way out by directing everybody to go with a heavier grease. The fact is that swivel balls rust, seals wear, and oil leaks. Fact of life!
As for parts, if you're gonna do the down and dirty method (remove everything as a single assembly, versus disassembing the swivel ball itself), you will only need two parts, the swivel seal and the paper gasket that goes between the axle tube and the swivel housing. On the other hand, if you are going to disassemble the entire housing (which I suggest), you will need the stub axle gasket as well, in addition to a new lockwasher (fold-over type, not split ring) for the hub nut. You'll also need a hub nut wrench.
One nice thing about doing the complete disassembly is it gives you an opportunity to inspect the condition of your bearings (There are several inside the swivel housing and stub axle), and the all-important CV joint. I have seen CV joints explode with as little as 50K on them! Also, it is possible to remove the swivel housing/ball and not affect the preload, if that is causing you concern.
If you're just going to swap the swivel seal, just get the two gaskets, but you may want to line up somebody to give you a hand when you get ready to remove the swivel assembly with the axleshaft still attached (you withdraw it separately if you disassemble the whole assembly). The assembly can get pretty heavy and unwieldy if you try to go it alone. The halfshaft is the long one on the driver's side, so you end up with a swivel housing/axle assembly with an 18" shaft of steel extending out from it-you can see why you might want a hand!
With respect to the oil, investigate your swivels to see if they have all three holes (Fill, Level, drain). I'm not sure when they did it, but at one point, LR stopped making the swivel housings with all three holes (if you're using one shot grease, who needs to drain or check levels-yeah, right, pull the other one!). If you only have the fill holes, you will need to drill and tap for the others if you wish to use oil rather than grease, but again, that's not a big deal as the bosses are already there and all you really have to do is drill and tap! The level hole can be drilled and tapped to accept a 1/8"NPT plug. I'm not sure what size the stock drain holes is, but I'll look at a junk swivel housing this evening to see if it will work with that hole being 1/8" NPT as well.
Good luck and let me know how it turns out.
Peace,
Paul |
Robert Sublett (Rubisco98)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 05:47 pm: |
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Thanks for the info Paul,
While under the truck today for the oil change (just can't trust anyone to do it since the Rover is picky about the order of things) I noticed all three of the needed holes (fill, level, and drain) To be honest I filled up the swivel yesterday until it ran out the top. I assumed that since it is leaking, this might give me a little extra time to not worry so much about it. As far as the bearings go, when I first bought the Disco, I had the hub seals replaced as both of them were leaking badly and the bearings were repacked at that time (about 15k ago) This being the One and Only trip to the dealer for anything other than diagnostics. I have learned quite alot from Discoweb, and I think that with the info that I get from you as well as the others here that I'm in better shape to do it myself, buy my parts cheaper and not have to pay out my A$$ for labor at the dealer. The Disco currently has 109k on it, it had about 107k Monday morning.. long week. Anyhow, Thanks for the info, I will print it out and order the two seals. Take care and if you're ever around Knoxville, TN or the surrounding area give me a yell and we'll go out wheeling. Later.. RS |
Dee
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 08:44 pm: |
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Robert,
If you have all three plugs the top is for fill, the middle is the overflow to tell when it�s full and the bottom of course is the drain. If you filled it all the way to the top you will be leaking fluids and it could sling past the seals onto you�re rotors. Nathan will help you out good luck with the repairs, If you have any questions feel free to email me.. [email protected]
As far as Data goes the best source I have found for the DIY is Alldata.com sign up for it 20? Per year it�s worth every penny it will give you detailed instructions and the parts required. Good Luck
Paul,
Congrats on the building, I like the noise thing, sort of like the Movie, It�s a Beautiful Mind LOL.
Good luck again and no worried on the kit I am just dwebing you� |
Ron
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 12:20 am: |
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I can do it in an hour-90minutes per side tops. You all are on crack  You need the aforementioned 14mm twelve point wrench. wedge it on each bolt and wack it with a 10lbs sledge to loosen each nut. Then get out your 14mm gearwrench and have at it
However, even if grease leaks out I would just pack it with normal cv grease (ie not LR oil) and be happy for a while with the knowledge that EVENTUALLY (probably a very long time) you will need to change it out.
Most cv joints do not have the luxury of swimming in nice oil inside a chromo plated swivel ball they live in a rubber boot which might get torn, filled with water etc etc and they generally do ok for a while with just the first packing of grease.
YMMV etc etc. |
Dee
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 08:28 pm: |
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Ron, I guess i am getting old you got it down to 90 per side, impressive. I take it a bit slower, I keep stoping to reload the pipe and find the tool box , its a bitch after the third hit.. |
Robert Sublett (Rubisco98)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 08:36 pm: |
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Hey Dee,
I'll post my record slow time after I've completed the task. Do I need any "special tools" or will my std. set of tools work? Should I purchase any special wrenches? On another note, I saw your posting of the diff guards while browsing around earlier. How is that going? After the springs/shocks, then wheels/tires, I'll be doing the protection then. Later.. RS |
Dee
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 02:01 am: |
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Email me off line about the diff guards i just mounted a set on my D1 ill send som pic. About the swivel seal if you have a fax i can send you the instructins, Rob was correct 14 mm to get the bolts loose and a pipe for leverage. I dont like to beat on my wrenches. I found its a bitch to keep turning the wrench, after i bust the nut loose i use a 14 mm box end ratchet.
I also like to remove the break hose so as not to dammage it, each his own. So you will need to bleed the lines. I pinch the hose with a hose clamp not needed but if you have it use it..
I would also support the knuckle good i use a floor jack and winch strap to aid in the removal.
Good luck
Dee
[email protected] |
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