| Author |
Message |
    
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 04:54 pm: | 
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Hey all,
Up until now, I had been fixed on putting an OME 2" lift on my 01 Disco II. It seems, though, that a good percentage of you have had a lot of trouble with them settling dramatically over time.
My lift preference is around 2-3". Articulation is very important to me, and I'd like to fit 31-32" tires. The main issue, though, is durability, whose system lasts the longest under grueling conditions.
Any comments?
Cheers,
Kennith |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 05:12 pm: |
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I just got through ordering my springs and suspension. I had the same concerns as you and after all my research wound up settling on RTE springs and OME shocks. |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 05:24 pm: |
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Noted, I just thought of that about 5 min. ago.  I suppose I'll get a few more opinions though.
Right now heres what I'm looking at.
RTE 3" suspension lift
Cones instead of retainers
OME shocks, if available for application, and since I like excess, I may look for their LTRs.
Wheel spacers to widen track and help mount tires
32, or 33 inch Michelin XLs or BFG Mud Terrain TA KMs.
100% correction of all lost angles and such, to include the possible swapping of pitman arms.
What do Y'all think?
Cheers,
Kennith |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 05:48 pm: |
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Check out the 265/75 GoodYear Wrangler MT/R tires. thats what i`m going with. That tires is roughly a 32" x 10.50" tire. I hear they are great on and off road from others that have them. If your concerned about the OMEs settling wrong, then just order them from EE. They match all springs. EE is who i`ll be ordering from with in the next week for my OME HD`s and shocks. |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 07:28 pm: |
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Well,I am pretty sure I'm going for 3" anyway, and OME dosn't do that on a regular basis. I'd rather deal with someone who specializes in suspension lifts around 3".
I have a lot of plans for stripping it down and custom fitting many things myself, but first comes the mechanical mods. If I don't do this suspension work now, I never will.
Cheers,
and still looking for more opinions...
Kennith |
Ron
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 07:38 pm: |
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Hey Kennith,
RTE is what I like. I prefer softer springs. On a DII you will have almost no benefit to cones. You will not be able to articulate enough to use them. If you use your springs (carry wieght and especially flex them alot) they will sag. Its a fact of life. OME or RTE will both do it. Is one substantially better from that perspective I cannot say. However with RTE you get higher to start with and IMHO better rate options. I find OME shocks overpriced and underperforming but others like them. LTRs are a complete waste of money (I have them) unless you are doing some serious high speed offroading.
Ron |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 09:53 pm: |
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Rockin,
Theres some good info here. I'm looking into some serious mods to get that articulation, I am mainly interested here in spring and shock sets. I will keep you guys posted on how I decide, expect me back at about 2am.
Cheers,
Kennith |
Kyle
| | Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 09:56 pm: |
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Kennith what exactly are you needing the articulation for ? If its traction there are better ways That leave you with a more sound vehicle.
Kyle |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 12:08 am: |
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Yeah, your probably right, Kyle. I had a design set up to drop the wheel below the slider, but it's not neccessary. I have been pondering this while I was driving, and a more reliable setup would be to use traction devices instead of large amounts of articulation.
I've got the CDL linkage, I'll install it after my next service. I suppose if I need anything more I'll put an air locker in the rear and go from there. And if I still need more traction, I'll put some stickers on my truck.
Cheers,
Kennith |
Michael Noe (Noee)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 01:33 am: |
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Kennith:
Does your rig have ACE? |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 11:55 am: |
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I have 265/75 MTRs on my disco and yes, they are great tires. I really like them and I'm very happy with them. Only thing that I should have done was gotten them in 33s |
John Averett
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 01:57 pm: |
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Kyle,
I was wondering what you would consider a more sound vehicle? If this is Mr. Van Tassle himself I was wondering just what amount of lift you have on your truck? I am also considering a lift and don't know if it is better to do a 2" lift and 235/85/16 like in the tech section and save the other money for lockers? Is a 3" lift and lockers with 255/85/16 going to cause a lot more problems.
Thanks in advance, John |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 03:42 pm: |
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I do not have ACE, nor do I have SLS. I didn't get them because I forsaw removing them later anyway.
Cheers,
Kennith |
Kyle
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 05:41 pm: |
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John ,
If Kennith here gos out and blows his wad on the tallest slinkiest COOLest drop out kit he can find he has really done nothing for the vehicle at all accept made it "Cooler" . Yeah ya get a little better balance out of playing with it but I am not sure if there is an end to that road.
If you know larger tires and off road is in your future I think your money is best spent building a solid platform that can survive all the other atrocities you are going to subjec it to down the road.
For instance , :after market shock mounts: , well , what the hell is wrong with the stock mounts ? You hear of many breaking or falling off or causing any real issues at all ? Why go out of your way to buy a set that might not be as good as you got when you really didnt have to put any thought or cash into the ones that were there in the first place for them to do their job?? They come with the price of the vehicle and they do what they were put there to do , hands down.
On the other hand , the diffs are weak as hell and if you spent some cash upgrading them you would certainly be doing yourself a favor. A side affect of replacing the diffs is that you gain more traction then buying the slinky shock mount set. All the while creating a more sound vehicle. Not adding unknowns and extra bullshit.
The slinkiest sexiest most lifted truck in the world with open diffs will have its ass handed to it by a little truck with a 2" lift and lockers every damn time. In more ways then one..
As far as my lift,,,well , it seems that 2" is about the magic number. 2" OME with 235/85s and lockers will carry you far. Much farther then most of the sex machines around the site here...
It seems that once you break that 2" height increase things start getting dicey. Vibs are more probable (Although ya might very well get em with 2") off cambers dont feel real good and in some ways you have actually made your truck less capable. If you come to a section of trail that you must go through thats way off camber the guy with the 2" lift is gonna make the slinky look bad again...
Currently I have around 2 /1/2" of lift in the rear and around 3" in the front (Depnding on what bumper/winch combo I am running that week). For the east coast this setup works good , I am nice and high and it keeps me up out of the mud and muck. HOWEVER , when we travel west the lift is biting me in the ass on the highway and on off camber rock. Ole John there at Rovertym has started modding swivel balls (One hell of a nice mod)to correct castor issues with the big lifts and that solves one part of the issue but you will have to get different rims or spacers (YUCK) and start hacking on the body more to get those same tires on to correct the off camber issues. Also your spring rates must start to rise to compensate for the lift and to get back any feeling of stability at all which will give you a harsh ride day to day humping it back and forth to the office. I am fairly certain the above reasons are why OME stopped at 2" . It really is the magic number...
As far as the tire choices mentioned above. I like the skinny look on a rover and I like how the skinnies handle on the road. There are other reasons I like the skinnies that others will give me shit for but you know , god damn , some times its just better if that damn tire spinns and doesnt grab. Some times the tire hooking up 100% mean something getting spit out of the truck. Ofcourse this will happen more with a 33 then a 32.... Now a real skinny 33-34 ? That might work....
Kyle |
chrisvonc
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 07:35 pm: |
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My 3" lift sucks. Its been nothing but problems and one breakage after another with that kit. For a truck used for "all around" wheeling, the 3" lift is unnessisary. I have spent the past 3 years wheeling with RTE 2" & OME 2" lifted trucks of all kinds with all kinds of drivers, and not one truck has not been able to go where I have gone. Granted some dont get the sexy slinky twisty pictures, but that not what these people are out there for. In these outtings with our gang, my truck usally is the tallest and fairly safe to say, I think is the leader in trail breakages ALL OF WHICH have been one part or another of the lift kit. I cant remember a breakage on my truck on a trail that was not related or caused by part of the lift failing.
And the pleasure doesnt stop there. Once you break the 2" mark, your options for replacement parts becomes more and more limited if you should want to swap out the breaking stuff with something more reliable.
Chris von C
chrisvonc@d-90.com |
Ron
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 10:14 pm: |
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Hey Kennith,
Just add portal axles man.
Thats the ticket. Diffs, lift, lockers, wheels, HD axles and sexy all in one.
Ron |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 11:52 pm: |
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Kennith,
You are in a D2 right? Go 2" and throw in some TT's and a CDL lever.
There is a group I wheel with and sexiest rig in the bunch is this gorgeous black D1 with RTE 4" and open diffs. You have another gentleman with D1, 2" OME and Detroit Locker. You also have me with D2, 2" OME, and one (yes one) TT in the rear. As sexy as that 4"RTE'ed truck is and as well as it articulates, my TT'ed D2 and the DL'ed D1 will walk away from it any day of the week with equal ease.
Don't focus too much on lifting wheels off the ground. With traction diffs it means you are just getting warmed up
Curtis "Torque Wheelie" Newkirk |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 12:57 am: |
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Yeah, I am going to do the diff thing,
I have been wheeling forever with open diffs on many trucks, including those damn HMMWVs (which suck IMHO). I am aware of the futility of articulation if you run open diffs. The hanging wheel dosn't take enough load to get much traction in serious axel twisters. The combination of lockers and a good amount of articulation is what I am going for. With the lockers, that traction becomes usable, however negligable it is in it's effect.
I like the idea of a full lock, selectable when I need it. What's your opinion on the ARBs with the heavy duty lines? Are they reliable under fire?
Cheers,
Kennith |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 01:08 am: |
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Curtis,
Whats a TT? I own a 2002 D2 and am about to do the OME 2" lift. Saddly I cannot add the CDL to my disco and am looking into anything that will improve its traction.
Kyle,
Did you ever get my e-mail on the Brackets for the Hi-Lift? |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 01:08 am: |
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IMHO, the ARB's are an OK option, but they are not proven relable in the bush 100% of the time. TT's on the D2 are the way to go. The ETC engages the TT's almost transparently when needed. They are almost imperceptible in regular driving although the front TT will help straighten wandering which accompanies the 2" lift.
If it was a D1, I would say go DL rear and TT front. In a D2, the dual TT's are good. I would imagine that a DL rear would also be good in the D2, but I am a big chicken
Curtis |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 01:13 am: |
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I take it TT= True Track |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 01:46 am: |
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Jeff,
Yep, TT = Detroit Tru-Trac. With no CDL I think your options are pretty limited. My rig gets real funky with my TT and no CDL. CDL biases the torque 50/50 to each axle. In my mind, that is where it all starts. Without it, you will just be sending the power to the axle with the least traction. It gets worse in the D2 because ETC will then just slow down the spinning axle by putting on the brakes for you. Not fun in a loose climb.
I would look into replacing your transfer case from a junker. Either that or contact John at EE. I think he sells the Quaiffe Lockable LSD. They are not cheap.
Curtis |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 02:02 am: |
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Curtis,
Whats the diffrence between the Quaife ATB(24 spline) and the LSD? EE has the ATB on there site but i didn`t see a LSD. |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 02:16 am: |
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Jeff,
All Quaife ATB's are LSD's. The reccomendation was a brain fart on my part. The one you would be looking for is the one for the LT230 T-box. Problem is that it locks via the usual method. With no locking stub on your 2002 you are out of luck.
I would try to source an LT 230 from a junker somewhere. New, they gotta be expensive. LR's accounting department thinks they machine them from gold billet
Curtis |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 02:23 am: |
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Well I`ve been haveing the loud whine from my T-box and the dealer said they will replace it at my 7500 mile check up. Just wonder if I can get them to locate a new D2 T-Box with the stub on it and get it installed, WOO that be great. If I can`t I guess i`ll just deal with the open face diff on my D2 and live with it. What kinda problems would I get if I installed the TTs with no CDL. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 08:57 am: |
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Jeff , I got your mail and I have something sitting right here for you.....
Kyle |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 10:16 am: |
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Kennith, don't use cones. I had them on my '00 D2 and they were almost useless. I have RTE 3" springs (plus 1" spacers) and Rancho shocks. I don't know if OME has shocks long enough for the 3" lift. You may want to check on that.
I have since replaced my cones with EE retainers (this requires DSI lower spring perches which give about 3/4" of lift). There are ways to get your DSII to flex, but they aren't easy. I've spent alot of time and $$ on mine, and yes, it's starting to get where I want it, but I've also spent the $$ for lockers (just haven't put them in yet). So hopefully, when all is said and done, I'll have a sexy slinky machine that will keep up with whom-ever 'cause I'll have lockers as well. .
I guess what I'm trying to say is, get the CDL first and then the lockers. Then concentrate on the flex. It's a long hard road, but it can be done. Take the easy road first, and lock it up! |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 12:40 pm: |
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Jeff,
That would be really nice if they could do that. The good news is that I do not think LR has made that many LT230's without the stub. The bad news is that all recent productions (2001.5-2002) are without stub. I would tell them you would be willing to accept rebuilt/used with stub than new without.
Affects without CDL? I don't know for sure. Your best bet would be to balance everything out as best as possible by going TT front and rear. I still think it would be a near waste of $ with no CDL.
Curtis |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 07:15 pm: |
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I am going to get the lockers first,
I allready have CDL, and am going to install it in 2000 miles (gonna void my damn warrenty too).
I am getting lockers first, as I do know how much they improve performance.
Cheers,
Kennith |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 07:57 pm: |
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Curtis,
Thanks for the info man. I`m gonf to look into it a bit deeper before buying the diffs.
Kyle,
Glad ya got it. I use Verizon DSL and ya never know if your mail gets to where its going sometimes. |
Ron
| | Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 09:48 pm: |
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Groovydude,
To my knowledge there is no way to gauranty what T-case you get. A rebuild would be more likely to have the lever so you could ask for one.
Ron |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 09:46 am: |
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Kennith, here are some shots showing what kind of flex you can get from a DSII with a little (alot, actually) work and some time.
Sorry, the photos are too big. I'll send them to Ho. |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 11:27 am: |
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OK, Kennith. The photos are now in my gallery. Take a gander, but just dont razz me about the forklift. It's all I had! |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 11:43 am: |
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Hey,
That kicks ass. That's about what I'd like to get eventually. Imagine that lift, with CDL, and ARBs front and rear! Can I e-mail you?
Cheers,
Kennith |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
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greg, next fork the rear tires and see how the flex changes... if at all. |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:25 pm: |
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Kennith, thanks, and no problem. Send away.
Ho, I was going to do that, but it was starting to rain. Ultimately I want to use two lifts (since he has two fork lifts there) at the same time (opposing corners) to see what I really have. I just rans out of time.
Once I get taller shock towers up front, I think I'll be pretty well balanced front to rear. Measuring the springs, I'm getting about 10.5" of difference from compression to extension in the rear, and about 9.5" up front. Go out about 8" to the wheels, and because of the greater arch, I'm at(or will be) around 12" -13" of travel at the wheels. Plenty for my asphalt wheeling! |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:26 pm: |
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Greg,
Daayaam! That looks awful nice. You did an SLS to spring conversion right? Unfortunately, I will never have that kind of rear axle drop because I actually like SLS for my towing and hauling duties. I also like the extra clearance on command.
Do you mind if I try a rear bumper that mimics yours? I need a project and that looks like a good starter for me. Mine will be slightly different and I promise not to steal your trademark
Kennith - friends don't let friends run ARB
Curtis |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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Curtis, I never had SLS. Straight coils for me. As far as the bumper goes, have at it. Let me know if I can help.
Kennith, I have my own CDL likage installed and will be putting in my Detroit and Tru-Trac next weekend.
 |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
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well greg, you know what they say, what's better than a fork? 2 forks! LOL |
Greg Davis
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:53 pm: |
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Forking aye! Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;~) |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 02:21 am: |
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Greg,
Thanks and I will e you offline soon with some questions. Mine will be different, but there are only so many ways to achieve a short bumper
Curtis |
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