You guys know anything about winches?

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Author Message   Ed M. Beaux Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 07:11 pm:    Okay, I know you do. And I'd never say that they're all the same. I've seen what happens then, and it's not pretty. But, anyway, it's time to buy one. My girlfriend just moved out, and I think a new winch will cheer me up. (no pun intended, really) What is your expert advice on a good winch/bumper combo? I'm installing it myself, and I've got the tools to do most whatever is needed, but I'd just as soon avoid any cutting/welding/bending/beating/smashing of metal. Eh? Thanks, Ed   KTM Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 07:42 pm:    How about a Warn M12000 solidly mounted on an ARB bumper?   Anonymous Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 07:55 pm:    Babes did the SafariGard bumper with a Superwinch X9 winch.   JEspelien (Superj) Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 08:29 pm:    I have tried all kinds of electrics and they just don't compare to hydraulic. I run a Milemarker two speed 10,500 and it will out pull any electric made no matter what the rating. I have mine mounted on a one off "SafariGardesque" bumper built just for it. My only wish now is to convert it to one of the proportional wireless remote controls Miller Industries has started offering on new tow trucks.   Kyle Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 09:21 pm:    You sure it will outpull "Any" Electric ? Is that what the sales brochure said ? Kyle   muskyman Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 09:53 pm:    kyle, I have a milemarker 2 spd 10500 I have to agree ... I have yet to see a electric that performs anywhere near as well as my milemarker. drew, from milemarker would "pit" a milemarker against all other brand electrics up to 12000 lb rating on a winch dyno. the 10500 never lost...in hundreds of demos' after 3 years of testing in all conditions the us military pitched the warn m12000 and m15000 winches in favor of the milemarker on the humvees as the new mil spec winch. I have three MM winches none have ever had a problem in heavy use.   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 09:57 pm:    Yeah, the military also buys from the lowest bidder. my vote is for the Husky 10.. Craig   John Lee Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:02 pm:    I agree with Craig. The Military buys, among other pieces of crappola, the M16 battle carbine, the M9 service pistol, the M60 machinegun, and the Mk23 offensive pistol (an oxymoronic classic if ever there was one). Go Husky 10.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:03 pm:    My steering leaks enough already, I don't want to make it worse. If I was going hydraulic, I'd go w/ a PTO. But, to get winch and PTO for a Disco, well.... Anyone wanna buy it for me?? Thought not... That's why I'll stick w/ electric ('til I can afford the PTO.... ) -L   PerroneFord Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:15 pm:    Is anyone making a bumper to fit the Husky now besides $G?? -P   michel Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:45 pm:    No expert advice here. Everything depends on your setup wheeling habits/surendings/budget. Tell us a bit about the type of winching you foresee for your future, i.e. long pulls through mud, water, desert rocks with short pulls, pull anything out of anything... You mentioned budget for the PTO, so you have a budget. You preffer spending more on the winch or the bumper? You can get a nice tray (like to stock one but different company) for 300$ and spend 1200 on a top of the line ramsey with nice thick cable, or arb bumper with a cheap winch on it. It all depends... Michel   muskyman Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:46 pm:    the milemarker would be the best upgrade you ever made on a disco simply because when you put it in you could replace the shitty hoses LR used on discos the zf powersteering box is a good unit it will have no problem running the winch the way they are set up the winch runs off the pump at current pressure levels. so it would not work the pump any more then it allready is working. you can use a milemarker all day long non-stop tell me one electric that can do that. and as far as cheap goes ...no chance they use dan foss hydraulic motor and a billet frame with a planetary gear that that has handled over 20000lbs without failure. if there was a truth in labeling law for winches everybody would see how full of shit warn,husky,superwinch,and ramsey have been with there numbers. for god sake why else are guys talking about m12000 for a 5000lb truck   michel Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:47 pm:    Oh, dont write off hydraulic MM yet, new options are out, so a PTO is not required, and the price is in the ball park. Find out what you need first, then decide. Michel   JEspelien (Superj) Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:53 pm:    What are you kidding me? Have you ever seen a serious recovery unit with an electric winch? Go to millerindustries.com and look at every recovery bed made. Towing and recovery operators earn their living winching and they use nothing but hydraulic. The only weak point in the Milemarker system is using the power steering pump for power, I use a seperate 2500psi 6gpm weldon hydraulic pump made for 1 ton tow trucks with automatic transmissions that lack a pto. This system is so superior to electrics they don't even warrant comparison. We just got 12 inches of snow here in MN and I just winched my Refuse Haulers Kenworth T300 dumpster truck (about 32000 lbs) out of the six foot deep ditch at the end of my driveway without snatch blocking it. I have winched out Suburbans buried in Mississippi river mud that two big electrics couldn't pull winching together. The only problem with the hydraulic setup is it pulls so hard it becomes increasingly difficult to find ways/objects to anchor the disco to so it doesn't move.   Ron Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:54 pm:    Maxidrive LT230 PTO with 3/4in solid drive shafts, driving a RE12000 or Superwinch mechanical or even a Koenig PTO. Failing that get the Maxidrive PTo with the hydraulic pump driving an H14 superwinch or RE12000. If you are going hydraulic you can do better than milemarker. You are talking about a winch with a 35hp motor! I am definately going to get something similar as soon as I figure out some other things on the 110. electrics are crap. don't get me started Mechanical is the way to go. The crank driven Koenig on the front of the series weighs 170lbs. Beastwars my 2 cents Ron "winch addict"   Kyle Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:54 pm:    So the mile marker side of the house is secure in saying that a Milemarker mounted on the rover with the rover kit and PS pump will outpull/outlast and electric RE on a rover ? Also , this "Winch Dyno" was run by who ? It was powered by what? Are any of these things realistic to you? You have what you have to work with.. Kyle   Kyle Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 10:57 pm:    Ron , shuddup , do you even have a working winch on a truck at this point ?? lol Kyle   muskyman Posted on Monday, February 25, 2002 - 11:15 pm:    kyle, the winch dyno was as per the goverment spec to test a winch for capacity/stall. milemarker just took atvantage of there access to it drew(president of MM) took it to trade shows unpacked brand new motors out of sealed boxes of all brands and ran them till they failed. he did this over and over. the electrics never survived . in the real world I cooked so many winch motors over the years I'll never buy another electric. in wet muddy conditions with long pulls electric is worthless. ron is right if you wanna spend a ton a cash you can get a better unit then the milemarker. but for the money...I still say none of the electrics even come close IMH milemarker owning O   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:04 am:    Well then, I gather that w/ the hydro setup: 1. The MM president says his stuff is the best, so it must be true...(insert rolling eyes smiley face here) 2. You throw a belt, and have no winch.. 3. You suck in just enough water during a crossing that you stall and may be hesistant to instantly restart, and have no winch.. Etc... Speed isn't everything- Craig   ErikS Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:32 am:    Ron, Just how much $$ is the maxidrive PTO? Or is that the kind of question that if you have to ask you probly shouldn't worry about anyway?   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:37 am:    Craig, Don't forget that the MM ads are highly credible. Especially that one write-up in LROI from a purported winching expert in the UK who said that all unsafe winching practices originate with the failings of electric winches. And let's not forget that http://www.winchtest.com website that MM uses to market its products. That is highly credible too. So MM's President's claims must all be true.   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:58 am:    thats a new one to me? the cables all failed? now thats a complete test if i ever saw one   JRoc Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:23 am:    "You throw a belt, and have no winch" What about this guys? I'm considering winch options and am trying to get as much info as possible. Opinions about company's (Warn, Superwinch, etc.) I was also considering gettting a synthetic rope over steel cable and was told this isn't recommended for Warn winches? Any info on this? Is synthetic rope worth better than steel cable? If I do go with an electric what size is recommended? Is 9000lbs enough? Is 15000 overkill? Sorry for all the questions but I don't know squat about winches. Thanx...   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:33 am:    I'm not a big fan of the synthetic crap. Take care of your winch cable, and it'll take care of you.. 15K winch are just plain physically big, and a little overkill. 10K is just right on a rover chassis. imho. btw- get the Husky.. craig   CS Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:46 am:    Of course some military/tow truck winch systems can winch all day... blah blah blah............ But realistically speaking and oil pissing aside, hassle free install and decently priced: M12000 + ARB bumper.   Ed M. Beaux Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:52 am:    Wow, thanks everyone. That's good, if conflicting, info. Time for some comparison shopping now. I'll let you know what I end up with, and how it goes. Thanks again, E.M. Beaux   Ron Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:19 am:    The living winches: XD9000i (on mutlimount) two Koenigs (one on truck, one off) a couple of early warn 8274s (an M8000 and a bellview) Dead: the poodle Sold: the capstan The maxidrive set up is not that terribly expensive. figure on double what you would pay for a standard set up. Kyle Your point about me having a lot of winch issues (I generally have a lot of issue in case you all have not noticed ) is the reason I want the maxidrive PTO/industrial winch. I am sick of being either stranded by a dead battery or without a functional winch.   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 10:22 am:    ron, then get the "CB" of pro-level winches, The MM 2spd power steering powered winch. and then you like me will just smile when someone says ... do you have a winch? in northern wisconsin I ran into 2 guys in a f350 upto the middle of the doors in a silt bowl off of a trail. they had smoked a brand new m12000. i had to double line them with a block to break it loose,but then single lined it out. when it came out I come to find out its on 40" tires. all with a power steering pump. If you are going to stay electric...and I know you all are, do yourself a favor and make up some huge 0/0 welding cable lines to power it. a 8274 warn with a mean green reduction motor would be pretty strong unit   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 10:30 am:    but what happens if your PS pump goes out? if rons rovers are like mine.. the damn thing is on it's way out. i agree with the other fellow. a no hassle, middle of the line, setup is ARB bumper (must be non-airbag) and a WARN M12000. myself and alot of people run this setup and i haven't heard any complaints... the reason for such a big winch is that they[warn] lie about stall speed, so go with the big one and be happy. sure it's not as good as the ramsey or mile marker for winch all day type activities... thats why i wheel with kyle i'd think you could find the winch bumper set up new for $1500. rd   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 11:08 am:    Musky , we all got stories. I single lined a tandem dump truck full of mulch with both rear Axles burried with the RE. Findlay is a Mile marker guy and he has seen the RE run a little...Hmm , oh yeah , it was winching him.. (Yes Findlay , you will pay forever) Kyle   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:21 pm:    kyle, when I was 18 a used a snap strap off my 72 maverick field car to snap a small single axle tractor trailer out of a snowy ditch. the trucker bought drinks till we puked. no winch needed so sell the disco get a ford and all will be well rob, the pump makes no more pressure then it does at idle because it runns at idle.it wont go bad.   Ali Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:25 pm:    Muskyman, Need to chat with you. Email me. Thanks.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:30 pm:    I have some Fords as well.... Kyle   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:39 pm:    My .02 for what its worth. I have had Ramsey re12's, a warn 9k, even had an ox 8k on an old CJ5. I know only what I have read about the mile markers. My question to you is this......Have you ever heard anyone on the trail say "I wish I would have bought the smaller winch"??????? If your going to be a bear, be a Grizzly! Hank   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:46 pm:    I like bear they taste good ok...can you tell me what winch is the bear?   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:46 pm:    not to far off the subject, will a warn m15000 fit in the ARB non air bag bumper?   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:52 pm:    musky, mine is going bad an it's just because of the seals.. i dont trust it, it's not an economical solution... reread what the guy is asking.. not what whinch is best. he is asking what bumper/winch combo is a good one. he doesnt want to get too involved. so i say again, your best no hassle option is the ARB bumper with M12000 from warn.. cant argue that. rd   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 12:54 pm:    Musky, If I were buying one today I would go with the Mile Marker. If price and weight were no object I would find a way to install a PTO off of a tow truck. Hank   kyle Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:09 pm:    I have to go with Rob on this one. The big Warn is much better then its little smoking siblings.... Kyle   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:13 pm:    M.K. - yes a Warn 15K will fit on a non-airbag ARB. The 12K and the 15K are the same winches with different gearing and some cooling fins on the motor for the 15K. Bill   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:15 pm:    you get a short rope on the 15K.. i dont like that. rd   Michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:18 pm:    Damn, if you have to bring that up, I'll have to mention how scared you boy's are of side angles in the midle of the night... In all fairness, the MM with the PTO setup did not fail, my installation failed, since the winch got pulled right off the mount. To me it's just another example of how strong that puppy is. That will be rectified with a decent mounting hopefully this comming weekend. But I still haven't heard the type of wheeling our conversation starter is doing, so recomendations are just bullshit flying at this point. Michel   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:23 pm:    How was it mounted?   Nadim Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:23 pm:    To answer the question, I'd go with a nice ARB and a Warn 12,000lb   Nadim Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:29 pm:    For the purpose of a protection bar, a good winch mount and a decent looking frony end, I'd go with an ARB non-airbag bumper with the M12,000lb winch. This is a decent combo, that, if installed correctly should provide the Disco with enough protection and recovery use, and is extremely well thought out as well.   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:38 pm:    thanks bill   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:41 pm:    "thats a new one to me? the cables all failed? now thats a complete test if i ever saw one" I wouldn't put too much weight in that so-called "test". Almost all of Milemarker's advertising consists of pseudo-test literature when in reality it is thinly veiled MM propoganda. If you look through the smoke and mirrors, you see that the purported test is no test at all.   michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:45 pm:    It was mounted with the 4 bolts from underneat. All torked properly. They use helicoils in there, and the winch pulled right out of there and the helicoils stayed on the bolts. MM told me it was tested in this configuration at 18,000lbs pull, but the "engineer" told me to use all the bolt holes available especialy with the PTO setup I have. There's 4 more bolts holes, 2 in front, 2 in the rear, use them also. Learning the hard way as usual. Michel   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 01:59 pm:    hank, the MM only weighs about 80lbs with cable. I like to use only about 70 ft on mine at one time. you get down to the base wrap faster that way winding issues/pile up is rare and if you have to reset once or twice does not bother me a whole lot.   Michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:02 pm:    John, I know you are scheptical of the MM test, but let me ask you this. Do you believe warn then? Has warn tested the winch with that cable and proved it not to break? I don't care what fringen winch you have, if you use a piece of equipment rated to stall at 11,900 lbs, don't use a 5/16th rope, pretty simple. You know why warn uses the 5/16th rope? Because the winch tests better on the per layer rating...they are not out to be your friends John. Michel   michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:06 pm:    Musky, I don't aggree with the 70' cable. First of all, my setup will pull like God himself on any layer so I like to have has much as possible on there. That tree is always a bit to far, or you have to get just a little to close to the stuck vehicle to reach. I can only fit 100' of 3/8 rope, but would like 150' or more if I could fit it. The 101 comes with 300' and it's perfect. He can be at the top of a long ass steep as hell hill and pull up a vehicle from the botom with a single pull, very nice indeed. Michel   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:12 pm:    We havnt had a good ole winch fest since the site has been back.... And no one has been called any names yet ? Dissapointing... Kyle   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:15 pm:    Anyone using master pull winch line??   Nadim Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:19 pm:    What about the 8275-50? That is the one I want...please do not spoil it for me!!!   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:20 pm:    nadim, that's a smoker too.   Greg Davis Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:41 pm:    Damn Ho, that hurt. Of course, I haven't had to use it yet, except for pulling up some stumps for my father-in-law.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:44 pm:    Dont worry Greg , you wont smoke it in the driveway.... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:45 pm:    greg, there's nothing wrong with having a smoker. i have a smoker myself. LOL just dont' ignite it.   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:45 pm:    Great thing about the 8275 is that the solenoids can be replaced with old ford pickup part #'s. Really cheap to work on....   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:45 pm:    Michel, "I know you are scheptical of the MM test, but let me ask you this. Do you believe warn then? Has warn tested the winch with that cable and proved it not to break? ... You know why warn uses the 5/16th rope? Because the winch tests better on the per layer rating...they are not out to be your friends John." Oh I agree with you. I don't think Warn winches are crap are anything, but they are not as good as the Husky in my opinion. At the SEMA show, I asked the Warn rep if Warn had any plans to bring out a worm-driven winch. The guy gave me this 10-minute pitch about why worm drives suck and how planetary drives are better. Everything out of the mouth of every Warn rep there was some kind of sales pitch. I listened patiently and then took off. The Superwinch guys were a lot nicer and a lot more credible. The way I look at the Husky is this. It's not the ultimate winch. It's not sexy. Yes, you can smoke it. It's very large and very heavy and there are very few bumpers made for it. The remote sucks. But it's not annoying slow during spooling and yet it pulls very strongly and evenly and doesn't sound broken during operation like the planetaries. It's not the ultimate or anything. It's just a solid winch.   Greg Davis Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:51 pm:    Good point, Kyle. LOL   Nadim Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:54 pm:    Why is the 8274 a smoker...I thought that was the only one to be saved?   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:03 pm:    well, it's got an eletric motor in there no? that can eventually ... catch fire...   Greg Davis Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:11 pm:    But wait! You could replace the motor with a small gas engine to drive the winch. Then you don't have to worry about the fire. Oh, wait. You would need a small gas tank for the engine, and that could catch on fire too. Damn, another smoker. Oh well. I'll just carry along some water incase it does start to smoke. Is water a good thing for an electrical fire?   Nadim Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:17 pm:    Yeah, But the clutch and brake are designed to dispell heat better than the planetaries, and the motor is high up and can get cooler, and the drum does not house the brake and it is a spur design...i am about to cry...so which winch do I get...I have to get electric, since I have a petrol car, and if it dies (for many many reason), i can use the 2 optimas...   Greg Davis Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:21 pm:    Nadim, go ahead and step up and get the 8274. You won't regret it. My father has a (new)planetary Warn and the thing sounds like it will come apart at any minute. The 8274 just whirrs along effortlessly. :~)   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:27 pm:    yeah nadim, just go with the 8274 thing. you cant' go wrong. just dont' quote me on that when it smokes.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:35 pm:    I like the 8274. On a Series Rover. Not knockin' ya Greg, I think it's neat that you put an 8274 on a Disco, but.... I'd pick something else for my Disco, just 'cause.... Oh, Craig.... Have you ever seen a winch cable break and take out a windshield? When I do get a winch, I'll go synthetic on it. -L still winchless   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:58 pm:    I once saw a 5/8" cable cut down a 6" thick maple tree faster then you could say decapatation. the tow truck was winching a garbage truck out of the mud at a park. "can you say stored energy" I have always watched winch cables very closely since. "I don't aggree with the 70' cable. First of all, my setup will pull like God himself on any layer so I like to have has much as possible on there." michel, I carry a number of lengths of cable with a hook on one end and a loop on the other. these can be joined togather and used to rig single and double line sets in an instant. having a bunch of line length may be a neet thing to brag about. but in my expierience you spend way to much time messing with the wrap instead of just rerigging and pulling. I'll take my 70' and no wrap mess everytime I have a friend that double blocks his 8274 on every pull gives him 30ft to pull at once and he almost never heats it up. good option if you just have to stay electric.   michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 03:58 pm:    John, I aggree with you about the worm being inherently better than the poodle, but you talking about the MM tests againts the warn. What we haven't seen is a real test with the ramsey and husky worm winches...and I did notice MM is not going after those guys. Probably because either they are not so obviously bad winches or they don't have a bone to pick with those companies. Michel   Nadim Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:02 pm:    I will be getting it, coz there is nothing else that I can get...right...   michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:02 pm:    The pulley block works, but make sure you don't double back to your winch mount...most mounts can't take the pressure of a double pull of potentialy 18,000 lbs. So again you need all the line you can get to double back to another winch anchor. Michel   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:04 pm:    Michel, "What we haven't seen is a real test with the ramsey and husky worm winches...and I did notice MM is not going after those guys. Probably because either they are not so obviously bad winches or they don't have a bone to pick with those companies." I suspect the primary reason is because Warn is probably MM's main competition. Sort of like Amsoil always bashing Mobil 1. My problem with MM is I can't believe a single thing they say, even if they are telling the truth. "Once a liar always a liar". And if you guys like the plasma rope, all the more reason to get a worm-driven winch.   michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:20 pm:    Speaking of plasma John does EE sell it? Michel   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:25 pm:    Michel, No, we do not sell the plasma ropes. We considered it, but we thought we would wait on the fence until the plasma ropes stood the test of time. There are several issues with it. I use plasma on my Husky 10 though and I love it. Unless something drastic happens in the future, I probably won't go back to steel. I hate dealing with 3/8" steel cable.   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:34 pm:    michel, as I said I have a friend that double blocks all his pulls with a 8274 warn he has been doing this for the 15 or so years I'v wheeled with him and it has yet to pull off anything. and its not the force on the cable that produces the load...its the resistance on the item being pulled. triple line/double block is great to break a mirred in mud truck loose.   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:46 pm:    john lee, tell me about your plasma rope, what is the rated strength? why is it better on a worm gear winch. what is the stretch factor if any how does it work for tight rope walking( a skill developed over years of mud running)   michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:49 pm:    I aggree, the force on the line is not increased, it's actually decreased, but the force on the mounting hardware,,,your bumper is increased. So, lets say the sucker is really stuck in the mud and has been sitting there for 4 hours, the suction is holding him in like sement. You do your double line thing, but the force required to break him free is 18K, you double back to your bumper and that's the force being applied to it. If you double back to another winch anchor like a stump or another rover, you 1/2 the force on each anchor to 9000lbs but still apply the full force on the stuck truck. A better solution and safer. Shit now that I think about it, you may pull the poor suckers mounts right off so you may want to inspect those too. And the oposite is also true, if you are stuck and need a double pull, find a third anchor for the line. Michel Michel   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:51 pm:    Well, I have the 21000lb rated Master Pull line. It doesn't like heat which is why Warn doesn't like it being used on their winches.. The worm gear winches run cooler.. As for stretch and tight rope walking I do not know..   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 04:52 pm:    John Why do you say this: "And if you guys like the plasma rope, all the more reason to get a worm-driven winch." What is your rationale for this particular marriage? Thanks El Lurko Nada   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:01 pm:    Michael.. The plasma ropes don't like heat.. The worms run cooler, which keeps the rope cooler.. Plus the rope would act like a blanket and cause the other winches to heat up more..   John Lee Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:03 pm:    Thom, "tell me about your plasma rope" It's a 3/8" rope from Masterpull. 125' of it fit easily on the Husky 10's drum. This replaces the 90' 3/8" steel cable. My rope is a nice pretty charcoal gray color. No pimp blue or pink or yellow or purple. The gray color is a little stealthy because it looks like steel at first glance. "what is the rated strength?" I think it was something like 17k lbs. or thereabouts. I can't remember for sure. I think the data is on Masterpull's site. "why is it better on a worm gear winch" The worm winches don't require a drum brake within the brake's drum. Plantetaries do. When winching out with a planetary, the drum heats up and melts the plasma rope. This is not a problem on the worm drives. This is serious liability problem with the plasma ropes, I think. Because of this, we would probably never sell the plasma ropes for anything but a worm drive or a spur-driven winch like the 8274. "what is the stretch factor if any" I'm not sure but I've heard that the plasma rope stretches very little compared to steel cable. That combined with the fact that it is considerably lighter can make it safer to work with than steel. Of course the plasma rope abrades more easily than steel. "how does it work for tight rope walking( a skill developed over years of mud running)" Now Thom, you know darn well you're never supposed to walk over a winch cable under load.   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:04 pm:    Ahh So! Thankee! Giesha marries Walter Brennan....   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:04 pm:    michel I have recovered...and more often been recovered from spots that took multi winches blocks here and there. where you pull on one line, roll it over with the other and move and lift it with a third. we noose trees up high to lift them up. hook to roll bars to flip them over. have them pull cables out as they go get stuck to save the walk. you name it... with a winch you brain is the most important tool. if you know the rules of geometry and physics...you can always find a way to make it work. once again wheeling is a thinking mans game use your head and dont hook to weak shit   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:07 pm:    Planetary winches have the brake inside the drum which in turn heats it up. This is a real factor if backwards winching. Personally I can't see it as too much of an issue on a big planetary when used in normal winching (inwards), but as John sais, time will tell. Worms don't have/need the same system, so heat buildup is not an issue. Bill   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:14 pm:    Since we are on the topic of winching. Have any of you ever seen someone run the cable through a spare tire and rim when they thought a recovery point was suspect, then slide the spare down the winch line to the middle to minimize the backlash in case of failure? I have seen this keep more than one winshield/tailgate intact! I think I would have to pass on the recovery. What you y'all think?   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:16 pm:    that brings up a valid point the MM hydraulic when mated to the optional load holding valve can winch in or out and hold its position I'v found this very handy for tough recoverys or letting a truck down something like a ledge. john , are the strength fibers? of the rope protected by a sheeth? if so I may try one of these on my portable MM   Scott Hayes (Scott_H) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:18 pm:    I saw this guy pull himself out useing a warn 8k...seems like it does the trick.   michel Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:23 pm:    That's what Im saying musky. I just find that on these winch discusion, it's a good oppertunity to stick in some general safety, user issues that might not be considered by the new guy. Hell, nobody told me the 4 bolts on the bottom were not enough to hold the winch down... michel   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:26 pm:    Musky the Master pull line that I have you can buy a sheeth that you can place on rocks to keep the line from getting scratched up.. Not sure if that is what you are asking though.   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 05:26 pm:    hank, i used to have a blazer on 40" tires with a huge 20000 lb winch off a garbage truck(ramsey hydraulic) I carried so much recovery gear it was sick(blazers need it) includding 3 coffee cans full of concrete with a hook comming out the top. I would hang them on the line every pull I made, I had a number of times something gave and nothing ever flew anywhere with the cans hanging on the cable. they would just stack up at the fairlead. now I travel much lighter. would never think of having such heavy things in my wheeler. the spare tire sounds like a hassel,but not a bad idea on a sketchy pull   Ed M. Beaux Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:49 am:    Can we get to 100 responses? This is really great, guys. Someone was asking what kind of wheeling I'm expecting, and I'd say, nothing too extreme, but I'm not just driving around the mall. My guess, that ARB/M12000 combo may be just the ticket for hassle-free install yet functional. Although, there's something about the hydraulic, powered off the PS pump just sounds more...right. But then there's that stuck-in-three-feet-of-water-issue-so-you-may-not-want-to-start-then-engine issue. Hmmm. One other question, I have air bags, are there bumpers (ARB, for instance) that are compatible with the air bag system? Thanks again, E.M.Bo   Ed M. Beaux Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:53 am:    One other thing, since someone's probably already thinking it: Although I've done a good bit of crane/rigging work, and spent Navy time where synthetic line snapback can (has) taken people's legs off, I'm getting some winch training before I go off experimenting. Yea, stored energy. EMBO   Curtis Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 01:55 am:    So many people have posted on this topic I have forgotten what a "winch" is. Can someone help. :-) Curtis   JRoc Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 02:04 am:    Will a 8274 fit in a non-airbag ARB without too much modification? What do we think of the 8274 with a plasma rope? Are there any worm winches that fit in a non-airbag ARB?   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 08:55 am:    i feel your pain curtis, i have gotten a headache over this.   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:18 am:    Ed, there is an "airbag Compatable " version, but it is much weaker (designed to absorb) and it only fits the shitty warn winches. the "non airbag " version wont cause the bags to to _not_ go off. rather , will, if anything.. cause them to go off sooner since there is more energy being transfered to the sensor. i was in a wreck at about 20mph (me 5mph + her 15mph) bags didn't go off. so it's not like they are hypersensitive. also, with all this extra weigth up front (about 200lbs) you will need Heavy Duty Springs, like a set from Old Man Emu. rd   Mike Rupp (Mike_Rupp) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:48 am:    Musky: The plastic ropes aren't in a sheath. It's just wound UHMWPE fiber. I checked with Milemarker and they don't recommend using the plastic winch cable.   Mike M Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:48 am:    One of the biggest advantages of the plasma rope (Masterpull, Amsteel Blue) is the safety aspect. Almost no stored kenetic energy under load. The one plasma rope that I know of breaking broke because of an extreme angle pull and was pinched in a bent fairlead. When it broke under full load it dropped to the ground with no recoil. I have been using a Masterpull rope on a planetary Ramsey with no problem for over a year but I'm aware of the heat issue with reverse winching and so far it hasn't been an issue. I'm just careful and take it slow if I have to back myself over a ledge with the winch. I started out carrying a Masterpull winch extension because of it's light weight before I replaced My steel cable on the drum. Mike   Michel Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:52 am:    The next winch test I want to see or read about is the submerged test. Id love to see those wounderful physic defying electrical winches pull out anything while submerged under water. Michel   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:00 pm:    "The plastic ropes aren't in a sheath. It's just wound UHMWPE fiber." Masterpull does sell what it calls a "chafe guard". I haven't seen one in person, but from the looks of it on the web, I think the chafe guard is a long piece of 1" cordura tubing. One of the local wheelers in the Los Angeles area has the same chafe guard on his plasma rope. He hadn't used it when I saw him, but he said that he used to climb rocks and it was standard operating procedure to use these cordura chafe guards on climbing ropes, and that the chafe guards actually helped.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:05 pm:    I have the Master Pull line and I also have the chafe guard. Mine is about a 2 inch wide and 3 feet long.. I haven't used it yet though..   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:07 pm:    Oh Findlay , here we go... The things your MM wont do or as I like to put it. "The options it removes" 1:A stall in the water leaves you in the water with no feasible winch option at all. 2:A stick with a bad starter cannot be winched into a good postion for push starting. 3: I can pull the motor from my truck if need be with the RE , can you with the MM ? 4:Cannot recover from a rollover. 5ne failing hose on the MM lets all the life blood out and even if you can repair you might not have the fluid to refill. 6: MM failure in most cases means loss of power steering. I can go on and on and on about the things it wont do and the options it removes but I am sure you get the point. We are playing a game that sometimes leaves you with a non running rover. Its good to have a small means of mobility if that happens ,and just that little bit of mobility can mean the difference between getting home or staying right where you are cursing the MM. We carry a bunch of crap with us to give us "Options" and hope we are covered. What if your highlift wouldnt work if your shovel was broken ? Or your recovery straps wouldnt work if the blinker on the truck didnt work ? Its just something really important that relies on something else that just might not be there... Kyle   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:23 pm:    6: MM failure in most cases means loss of power steering. now that is a very interesting point....   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:23 pm:    just use a piece of old firehose to protect the masterpull line. i personally really like the idea of using masterpull as an extension. but for any tricky stiuation, like my truck dangling off a cliff and held on buy the winch cable over the corner of a sharp rock. rd   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:28 pm:    Carry both if you are worried about it.. My winch came with 100 feet of 3/8s cable. I bought another 100 feet of the Master Pull Line. So now I have both.. I figured that I would carry the cable along just in case and use the yarn first until it breaks.. That is once I get the winch on the truck..   michel Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:52 pm:    Alright, "2:A stick with a bad starter cannot be winched into a good postion for push starting. " I don't get that one, give it to me in layman terms. You are absolutely correct in we are playing a game of options. Here's reality in my world. I've been summoned to go rescue local rover friends that were stuck beyound self recovery. All cases they had a winch, the thing burned out and caugh fire in one case, one was stuck in a deep bog with the winch underwater and was dead. Other times out the electrics solonoid were frozen, (don't forget -40 does weird shit to electrics), solonoid was flaky and did not work, and a few that survived one particular day, could not start the vehicle the next because the battery was dead. On the trail at 1 MPH the charger doesen't work so well. NEVER have I seen an electric pull a stalled truck out of a water crossing...period. So on so forth. That is the 80% electric reality. The options that are important to me is a winch that will do its damn job, realiably, consistantly and with heart. Now for the esoteric posibilities you need to be prepared. Say you die in the middle of a water crossing, in my case that means it's deep enough to bury the winch, even with an electric, I would not take the chance of trying to use it and watch the rest of the electrics on the truck burn out...that would really fuck me up. So, a highlift and the rope on the drum will get me out or the extension if close enought. Not pretty, but im out and the truck still alive. Ditto for rollover. 3: pull the motor out. You probably have to in order to clean the thing otherwise your fucked. Never the less, that is a good feature, that the MM lacks, but the hydraulic ramsey has. 5: The oil is the same as the transmition, so I carry it now. Ditto with hoses. But you're in the same boat if you blow a power steering hose, same odds. 6: In most cases, having isolated systems on mine I'm covered, but failure of burned electrics I think is worse that loss of power steering, so really a wash. Considering electrics fail more you are still better with the hydraulic. Last but not least, as you pointed out the MM is really a poodle, so if you compare that poodle to the electric poodle...damn. One can choose a ramsey worm drive hydraulic to eliminate a few points, but Id be scared of stretching the disco with that kind of power ehhee And the last comment "Its just something really important that relies on something else that just might not be there." That is the reason hydraulic is better. My system is a hell of a lot more stable and redundant than your electric. You trust your self recovery to a piece of wire, copper washer, battery, alternator etc, etc. all flaky shit. I trust the engine, industrial hoses, and transfer case, reliable system. Sort of like the arb compared to the detroits.... Michel   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:55 pm:    There are some warnings floating about on using the plasma winch line extensions in conjunction with a steel winch cable. I don't know if these warnings are correct, but they say that the steel cable will unwind under load if extended with the Masterpull extension. Apparently, the steel cable wants to unwind under load but doesn't because the hook is usually secured to something that will not permit the steel cable to unwind. But combine a steel winch cable with the plasma extension (which will definitely permit the hook to turn freely) and the hook will start turning under load and the steel cable will begin to unwind. If this is true (and I don't know if it is), then that would really suck as the plasma winch line extensions are really convenient. You can get 100' of cable into a small bag. This is impossible with a steel cable.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 12:58 pm:    But Michel , the fact remains. I ended up winching you (No you will never live it down).... And I didnt mean the winch Motor. I meant the rover Engine..... So tell me again how the electrics have just let you down ? Where would you have been on that day without that Electric ???? (Yes I am loving this) Kyle   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 01:04 pm:    Michel, " "2:A stick with a bad starter cannot be winched into a good postion for push starting. " I don't get that one, give it to me in layman terms." If a Rover with a manual transmission has a dead starter, you can use an electric winch to pull yourself to where you can get a roll-start. -L   Wesley Snipes Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 01:37 pm:    Ooooh - so exciting!   Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 01:40 pm:    You all need black rats, that's all. Won't fail in water / ice / mud / rollovers / stalls / flat batteries / crashes / hose breakages/ powersteering failure   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 01:44 pm:    You havnt been stuck real good yet either Dean. I am sure we will get to see the aerodymanic qualities of the black rat is it gos flying down through the woods when you throw it... Kyle   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 02:07 pm:    Musky and company - for the UHMW rope chafe guard - just go to your local hydraulic hose supplier and you can buy it by the foot in many different diameters. It is nylon and commonly used for protecting hydraulic hose in impulse/high chafing applications. (happens to be one facet of the business I'm in) Bill   michel Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 02:49 pm:    LOL about the black rat, give's me visions of golfing. Blaming the winch for a bad install is not scoring any points, and is part of the learning experiance. If a single smoker out there had any guts, I would of heard of this problem before :-) and in all fairness if your smoker would of pulled your bumber clean off in a pull, I would not blame your winch, I would actually be impressed with it, but give you a hard time on the install. The smoker didn't let me down that weekend, but it was the driest weekend on record, and even so, a few of the boy's were lacking in guts here and there. The ramsey did do it's job well and if for some reason I had to have electric, it's the only one I would consider, but would be very unhappy about it. Michel   michel Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 02:54 pm:    "If a Rover with a manual transmission has a dead starter, you can use an electric winch to pull yourself to where you can get a roll-start" That is a very theoritical scenario. The odd of you being close enough to a hill with an anchor and enough juice to pull you up, and then start it backwards with the high compression are pretty slim, and in fact if your rover is not starting it's because you killed the battery from winching. Michel   michael Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:02 pm:    Good Questions, anybody know the answers??? Will a 8274 fit in a non-airbag ARB bumper? What is the concensus on the 8274 with plasma rope? Are there any worm winches that fit in a non-airbag ARB bumper?   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:06 pm:    Michel , I can pull my self along quite nicely with the truck turned off... And the mount screwing up isnt what disabled it. What disabled it was the pissing and the lack of parts to replace that winch carnage..Had the mount just broke we could have fixed it up somehow to keep it going... http://www.discoweb.org/canada01/DSC00048.JPG Kyle   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:07 pm:    "Will a 8274 fit in a non-airbag ARB bumper?" No, at least not without serious modification. According to ARB, the ARB bumper is built to take only the HS9500, XD9000, and M10,000. Several others have fitted the M12,000 and M15,000 without undue modification. "What is the concensus on the 8274 with plasma rope?" Several people on the D90 list run this combination without complaint. I would think that the 8274's spur drive would be similar to the worm drives. "Are there any worm winches that fit in a non-airbag ARB bumper?" You can make anything fit that you want if you're willing to do the work. Matt Moe fitted a Ramsey RE to his ARB. It can be done if you're willing to do it. RoversNorth sells an ARB bumper that has a Superwinch Husky mounted to it. I've never seen this bumper up close, so I don't know what RoversNorth did to it.   michel Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:56 pm:    ahhh the memories. We'll now I carry a couple of extra fittings and a hose. So fixup is no problem. And the mount breaking off IS what fucked it up, comon now, the winch would not be disabled if the mount did not break. Michel   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:14 pm:    LOL , I know how badly you want to bombard me with pics and shit.... Kyle   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:48 pm:    while driving up mount everest my starter failed so I wanted to winch up to a spot where I could roll start my truck . I then noticed I'm not one of the 1 in 400 or so 5 spd disco's. i then decided to change my starter. so i used my friends electric winch to pull my motor to afford me the easiest access to the starter. sure glad I dont have a MM back in the real world, I own three MM winches 2 on trucks one stand alone self contained . 2 of them for 7and 8 years respectivley when anyone of them fails the first time ,I may take notice of its "what if" short commings show me one person who bought a MM and was not happy with its performance and I'd be surprised. i know atleast 10 people who have them and they all...ALL love them. i have one running 8 years on a bone yard pump whens it gonna fail? i have run mine under water over and over for long distances. still no problems I'v acted as winch master at a deep hole on the pipline trail for hours on end dragging truck after truck...includding the napperville IL humvee club. still no problem? if everyone wants to shit on something we should go back to the thread from hell on rancho 9000's I own them and they do suck! the MM hydraulic winch is a proven performer in my world no matter what anybody says!   wayne Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:13 pm:    The Warn 8274 is the only choice in winch's. I have run it under water, under mud and tested it in the most extreme conditions imaginable and it beats everything out there. PTO's break shear pins or transfers if accidently forgotten to be disingaged, hydrailcs if driven off the fan belts slip when under water, even PTO driven hydraulics require substaintial modifications to set-up and alot more work to operate when in a hurry. If you are stuck in a stunking wet mudhole, you want out fast then the 8274 will get you there. If you want to sit there for an extra 2 minutes then use something else. The 8274 works well with Plasma, I have been running it for 2 years. Wayne   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:16 pm:    hydraulic   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:17 pm:    electric   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:18 pm:    hydraulic.   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:19 pm:    and the debate goes on into infinity   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:19 pm:    lexas   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:31 pm:    In a competition environment Wayne I would go with you. But when I am stuck , I aint going anywhere fast , as long as I get out I am fine... Kyle   Milan Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:41 pm:    The 8274 is just as slow under full load as any other winch. It's when the load is lees that it becomes really nice to have a winch that can keep the rope tight. It becomes even nicer when you're realing in the rope under no load. As for not going anywhere fast. I always say that myself, yet when I'm stuck in muck, I want out ASAP before that shit gets everywhere. I vote electric and I vote Warn 8274.   Ron Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:05 pm:    "Will a 8274 fit in a non-airbag ARB bumper?" Yes with spacers and a little cutting. No I have not done it but I looked and measured. It is definately a good choice and I would take it over the M12000 but thats just me. M12000s sound like crap when they pull. What is the concensus on the 8274 with plasma rope? Its fine. Just like a worm. But watch your fairlead right Bill B Are there any worm winches that fit in a non-airbag ARB bumper? Not without serious mods or without paying Roversnorth to mod one for you $$$$$ Listen to Wayne. If you figure out who he is you will know why. Also Bill @ GBR was telling me about some hydraulic conversion for the 8274 that is based off the PTO pump. Something like 6000lbs of pull at idle @ something like 80ft/minute. Ron Mechanical diesel, mechanical winch, no electrics! I want less stuff to break.   Russell Smith (Rusty) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:23 pm:    Ed, Just a thought: Ever thought about a Hand Winch? Works underwater. Reliable. Only thing to fail is ME. Very few situation where it cannot be used. Can move from vehicle to vehicle. Dont need to take it with you everywhere. MUCH CHEAPER !!!! Had mine for a few years and it has not failed me yet. Even used the money I saved to spend on better suspension etc. so I don't get stuck as often. As I said .... Just a thought.   JRoc Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:47 pm:    Thanx John, Wayne, Ron and anyone else who answered my questions. Hey, that'd be a great name for a boy! Anyway, the decision about which winch to get is a big one. At least in my book. I don't part with that much money, on something I don't plan on having to use all that much, so easily. But I also don't like having to rebuy something because the first time I tried saving money and bought the "cheaper one". I labored over which winch bumper to get, and now that I've seen a few upclose I chose the ARB. Not that I think it's great, but all things considered I think it's the best of the bunch. I mean give me a f**kin break $1300 for a winch bumper is Gang Rape! Now I just need to find someone who can modify the ARB to fit a 8274. Anybody have any idea's? I'm in NY and will travel. Thanx again   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:03 pm:    Well, after 133 posts to the question of "You guys know anything about winches?", I guess the answer would have to be a resounding "NO". ;-)   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:44 pm:    Ron , "Who Wayne is" says a few things in this thread. He runs competitions where speed is key. I have run the upright Warn on some heavy loads and its not "all that". It certainly aint bad and on a light vehicle Its probably pretty kick ass. As stated earlier , if I needed the spool in speed of en electric drill I would certainly take that over anything else out there. BUT , I dont think this dude is running any races. Just remember the Turtle and the hare.... Kyle   Ron Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:26 am:    JRoc, It looks pretty easy. All you need are a couple spacers (flat stock and a drill will do it) and potentially an angle grinder. There is a write up on d-90.com about how to install one on a D90 and it will be similar (if not easier) to install one on a disco. I don't know where in NY but if you are near the city and want to drive down to philly I am sure we can figure it out (I even have an 8274 to test fit. Ron   Ron Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:27 am:    Kyle, watch his videos and then shuddup   Kyle Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:05 am:    Ron ? Have you seriously competed in any motorsport where you need to "Drive it like you stole it" ? Perhaps not and thats why you are so in awe of the pedal on the mat all out dead run boys and want to mold everything behind them. Do you have Nascar stickers on your Rover ?? Its two different worlds Ron..... Perhaps to you it isnt and thats why you junk is broken most times... Kyle   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:08 am:    Hmmm..... Maybe I need to find an Earnhardt #3 sticker.... lol.... -L   Michel Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:00 pm:    What video? Spooling speed is another area of useless specs. On mine right now I get close to 70' per minute and then some. The difference is at least mine is a variable speed so I can control it and bring that sucker down. No way can you spool 3/8 rope properly at high speed. Nice thing about hydraulic coupled with variable speed is first when you let go the switch the thing stops instantly, and variable speed is just well perfect. Michel Michel   JRoc Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:47 pm:    Hey John Lee, I just read your posting on the EE tech board about swapping out the superwinch remote for a Warn remote. Great article. I like the Warn remotes and was/am considering getting a Warn winch because of them. I really like the Superwinch Husky 10 and X-9, but neither one is "recommended" for the winch bumper I am considering buying, the ARB. One of the reasons I like the Superwinches is because I really like the Masterpull ropes. I like them because they're safe and user friendly. I know ARB bumpers are not the ultimate bumper, but as I've said before, I can't see paying the amount of money some of these people are charging for a bumper that isn't even that great! With that said now the questions: In a previous post you explain why masterpull lines are not recommended for Warn winches. All but the 8274 are planetery, which are not good for a masterpull line due to the heating of the drum. Q: Does Superwinch make planetary winches or are all superwinches worm driven? I'm considering going with a 8274 but I'd like to know what my options are. I've been told that the X-9 is a great winch for the money, and I love the Husky 10. If the 8274 is going to be as difficult to mount as the Husky 10 or X-9, I'd rather have one of these. Plus I think the 8274 is only rated up to 8000 lbs and for that amount of money it should be rated at 18000 lbs. Warn winches seem to be rated alot higher than they're capable of. I notice that a Superwinch rated at 9000 lbs has a stall rate of something like 11000 lbs. I don't think that Warn's are garbage, I just don't think they're worth the money they ask. They do put alot of money into making them look nice. LOL And lastly Q: How come EE doesn't sell winches?   John Lee Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:09 pm:    "I like the Warn remotes and was/am considering getting a Warn winch because of them. I wouldn't get a winch just because of the remote. It's sort of the tail wagging the dog. Besides, you can easily swap remotes almost at will. You can easily combine an X9 with a Warn remote. Or, if you prefer, you can get the heavy-duty Superwinch remote like so: http://store5.yimg.com/I/cruiserconnection_1674_918417 and just plug it in without having to change anything on the winch. I really want to try one of these Superwinch heavy-duty remotes. They certainly look cool. "I really like the Superwinch Husky 10 and X-9, but neither one is "recommended" for the winch bumper I am considering buying, the ARB." The Husky definitely won't work on the ARB without serious modification work. The X9 bolts right in. "Q: Does Superwinch make planetary winches or are all superwinches worm driven?" The X9 is a planetary winch with drum brake, just like the Warns, so you'd face the same dangers of melting a plasma rope as you would with a Warn. That being said, Bill Burke runs X9's on both of his trucks and he runs plasma ropes on both trucks without a problem. I think he's just careful about winching out. Q: How come EE doesn't sell winches? Right now we're on the fence about selling winches. My favorite winch is clearly the Husky 10. But how many bumpers are made for the Husky 10? Very few. If we did sell winches, we would probably carry the Superwinch line because I think Superwinch is more of a credible company than Warn. Thus, we'd probably be selling X9's as our bread and butter of our winch line. We just might start selling Superwinch winches in the future. We just don't know yet. We were on the fence about winches because we wanted to have our own bumper combined with the Husky, but that's hard to do. We might just sell the ARB/X9 combination for now. That is not a dream set-up by any means but it certainly a very solid set-up that we would be comfortable selling.   michel Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:11 pm:    That is a nice remote. The MM remote is the cheasiest cheapest piece of crap. I've had to customize it with better shit just the first month i had it. Will that remote work on the MM john? Michel   John Lee Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 11:59 pm:    Michel, "Will that remote work on the MM john?" I don't see why not. I doubt the Superwinch plug fits the MM's socket, but you can just fit a Superwinch socket to your MM's solenoids. I would think that all of the winch remote sockets run on the same principle with power, forward, and backward wires. If you do buy the Superwinch HD remote, let me know. I can give you the DOR special on the Superwinch socket.   JRoc Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:08 am:    Hey John, You mentioned that Roversnorth sells the ARB with a Husky mounted in it. Which model Husky is it? Are you sure they sell the ARB with the Husky mounted in it? I went to there website and didn't see anything like that. If so, whats the price of that setup?   John Lee Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:25 am:    Man, call RoversNorth. I don't know all of the details of their stuff. I saw the bumper in their mail-order catalog before. I'm not positive they're still selling that modified bumper. The Husky 10 and 8 are the same size.   PerroneFord Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 07:52 am:    Mike Searfoss at RN told me about 2 years ago that they had dropped Superwinch, and consequently the ARB/Husky combo. HE told me to "keep my eyes peeled" as they would be reintoducing the Superwinch, and they have, but I have not seen that ARB/Husky combo anymore. Now that they are carry the bumpers and from David Bowyer, I believe that is where they have gone for bumper and winch combos. One of those G10s would be nice... if you hit lotto. -P   JRoc Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 04:35 pm:    Thanx for the info Perrone