Valve job?

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Author Message   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 12:25 pm:    i recently took my '97 Disco in because the "check engine" light came on. the dealership told me that the computer indicated i had a sticking valve and needed i needed a valve job to the tune of $2600. i said "no". the engine only has 49K on it. if i need a valve job already, then this is a really shitty engine. my thinking is that i have some varnish on one of the valves and it just needs a cleaning. a friend mentioned a product that he used on his S-10 that screws into the bleed valve on the fuel rail and that cleans everything out. i was just wondering if anyone here had had a sticky valve problem and knew of the best way to take care of this. there's no way i can afford a valve job, nor do i think it should be neccessary at this point in the engine's life. thanks in advance.   anyone Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 01:07 pm:    unfortunately for u my friend......valve jobs are all too common with these trucks - i am sure you can find alot of info on this site if you search the archives. Don't really have advice as to how to fix it....you could always try getting some after market warranty co to give you a policy and then claim it under that....   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 01:20 pm:    A '97 w/ 49k, yeah, it's developing the sticky-valves. It is, unfortunately, common for the 4.0 to have this problem. You can try cleaners like Resoline, BG44k, Seafoam, etc. They help, but, if it's gets too bad it'll bend a valve stem, and you'll need the valve job. And, FWIW... the engine is close enough to a mid-60s Buick 215 that you should be able to take it into any competent engine machine shop and get them to do the valves for you for a LOT less than the dealer cost.... Good luck, -L   Carl E. Cedeholm (Cederholm) Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 01:28 pm:    Any good forms of preventative maintenance to help avoid sticky valve syndrome? Good gas? Valve cleaner? Carl   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 01:46 pm:    IMHO, stick w/ 93 octane and use a quart of Resoline with each oil change, and be consistently frequent with your oil changes. Other than that, I don't know of anything that would really help that much more.... occasionally using BG44k, maybe, but, there's not a magic fix that I know of.... -L   Carl E. Cedeholm (Cederholm) Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 02:09 pm:    sounds good. thanks Leslie   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 04:20 pm:    thanks guys. i'm too used to the straight six in my Jeep. the damn thing is indestructable (except for that little water ingestion incident) ;) i guess i'll try cleaners then go looking for a shop to do the work.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 04:22 pm:    It's hard to kill the 258/4.2 engine, or even the later 4.0 inline 6.... much better than the crappy 2.8 V6 that they used for a couple of years.... -L   p m Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 09:29 pm:    it's even harder to kill a 360... but i digress peter   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 08:46 am:    LOL, but, I dissagree.... the 360 was more subject to developing the classic AMC burned-valve.... which is how I got my Wag so cheap back when I got it.... Which, BTW.... I still need to find a new home for..... Anyone want a Wag? Needs a ••••••.... -L   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 09:09 am:    hmmm... 360 in a Disco....... just curious, are there any easy motor swaps for the Disco?   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 09:42 am:    For it to be "easy", stick with the family.... 3.9/4.2, or 4.0/4.6, or one of the Rover-specialty places. Or, putting a 200Tdi or 300Tdi should be easy enough, and still "Rover". There are better diesel engines, there are better V8 engines, but, the "easy" level goes away, unless you find someone that either does kits, or, has done enough of them to have developed a step-by-step guide that has already done the troubleshooting work. IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada, FWIW..... -L   49K Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:37 am:    49K AND A VALVE JOB WHAT A poS, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS STILL RECOMMEND PEOPLE BUY THESE TRUCKS SOMEBODY HELP US!!!!   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:52 am:    Why do people write things like that?! It is so annoying to read an interesting and informative thread and then come across a post by some A-hole anonymous person!! I've got a 95 with 62K and she runs beautifully. But when I had a pre-purchase check done I was told she's seeping oil around the valves...so I'm interested to learn about the evolution of these problems!!   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:53 am:    shuddup pussy, help yourself   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 11:54 am:    uh, that was aimed at the anon loser, not you Susannah (you snuck in there)   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 12:00 pm:    I got it Blue, thanks! And...I agree!!   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 01:05 pm:    lol..... -L   come on Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 01:34 pm:    lol this lol that...a truck with 49k should not need a valve job. that is just silly that we say its common...we should be saying thats things such as gross negligence and be contacting land rover via class action to improve the quality of their trucks..after all land rover advertises that these trucks can handle the toughtest of trials and the worst climate, anything anybody can throw at it...except of course daily use!!! Come On people!!! yea there are some good ones out there and some haven't had to many problems but the major theme is that these trucks have problems..thats fine if land rover tells us them..but to advertise and pretend that these are really well made tough trucks is just a plain lie.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 01:41 pm:    No, a truck with 49k certainly shouldn't need a valve job. I doubt mantaray's 97 needs a valve job. The dealer is most likely trying to rob him blind. The dealer needs a pipe job. "We" should be contacting land rover via class action? LOL at that. What you really mean to say is, "Someone take charge so I can ride on your coattails."   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 01:45 pm:    hey Leslie, what are the HP and torque specs on those diesels, and how much are you looking at spending from parts to install? i can't really afford a swap now, but it would be interesting to know for the future.   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 01:49 pm:    Hey Mantaray- Your Disco isn't white is it?! I just passed one at lunch that I haven't seen before in town...and of course, there aren't that many of us in Lynchvegas! And Blue-RIGHT ON!!!   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 01:58 pm:    I don't have 'em on hand, I'll have to dig later to find the specs.... there wasn't much performance difference between the 200Tdi and the 300Tdi, the big difference is that the 200Tdi used a timing chain, the 300Tdi used a belt, so it was quieter. But, there was a problem early on that ate the belts... there is a fix, though, that essentially adds a lip to keep the belt on the pulley so that it doesn't let itself get eaten on the cover. Also, the turbo placement is different... any 300Tdi should work, but if you want to use a 200Tdi, make sure that it came out of a Disco, as the Defender version's turbo is placed wrong for a Disco. Also, the transfer case in the V8 versions is geared different than in the diesels, and the bell-housing for the transmission is different between the V8s and the diesels..... although you could change gears and bellhousings, it'd be easier to locate an engine/ transmission/ transfer case as a unit for the swap. Cost to have someone install a Tdi into a Disco varies, depending on which Tdi, new or used, money into the extra bits for the swap, the trans and transfer case, yada yada yada. Some place like ECR can cost well over $10k, but, they do it all, you don't even have to think about it. IF you shop hard for good used parts at great prices over in the UK yourself, and you do all the work yourself, you might be able to do it for under $5k, it just depends..... The other diesels, GM variants and such, I'd have no idea on the horsepower or specs, never really looked into them. Supposedly, though, buy a kit from the UK, go find a cheap motor in a local junk yard, and do the work...... something to consider if you want to go that route... depending on the engine, you may come up with more power for less money than going the Tdi route..... FWIW.... -L   come on Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 02:10 pm:    your right blue.. coattails are always easier to ride on.. doubt anybody will really take charge because most of us are clouded by some love fest with our rovers.. somebody hit me so i can get over it   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 02:14 pm:    Hey Folks, Should I be worrying about this same issue with my DII? Paul '00 DII   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 02:17 pm:    nope. just us low lifes with D1's.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 02:22 pm:    It seems that the issue really came up when the switch from the 3.9 to the 4.0 came with the 1996 model. The '96 and '97 models seem to have the most problems with it, but they're also just older than the '98 and '99 models. It could be a combination of both age and mileage. It seems to be more common on ones that didn't have very frequent oil changes, but, I can't say definitively that frequent oil changes will prevent the issue. I haven't head about it being a problem with DII models, but, the '99-'02 DII Rovers are using the 4.0, so, maybe. FWIW, my '99 was having issues wit hit by the time it hit 80k.... And Blue, yes, it seems like a '97 with 49k shouldn't have the problem, but, stealership or not, unfortunately, it could very well be the valves. Maybe not, maybe not...... but, possibly so. IMHO, FWIW..... -L   Kingfish (Kingfish) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 03:17 pm:    my 95 came from a guy who changed his oil about twice a year. You know, one of those types that doesnt know what an oil filter is? Well, i got the disco at 85k miles and have been using mobil 1 15w-50 and 93 octane (no ma and pa crap, either). I'm currently at 128k miles and no valve problems even though the inside looks like a mess. everythings got caked on crud. Lately i've noticed a knocking sound which goes away after an oil change, but comes back in about 1k miles. As for the anon a-hole, he has a point. If these engines come from a 62 buick, you'd think they wouldnt be having such problems. I mean, how many cars out there have this problem? And its not like these things are as high-tech as some 9000 rpm 4 cyl. Nobody should pay LR prices and get stuck with bad valves if under 100k miles with "average" maintenance.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 05:07 pm:    heheheheehe if I had a low-mileage Disco and the dealer told me to give him $2600 to fix it, do you think I'd be sitting here on this board whining? No, I'd be busy at somethin else. Nothing against you, mantaray - you "just said no" to the dealer and you're soliciting advice on alternatives. Special K there and "come on" sound like the whiner(s).   come on Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 05:36 pm:    i wouldn't and don't take my truck to the dealer...   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 05:56 pm:    Susannah - nope, my Disco is not white, it's black. i have a Thule rack on top with a faring full of stickers, including a D-web oval. up till this point the only other D-webber i knew of in L'burg was a guy named James that works near me and i haven't seen on since the site crashed months ago. if you want to get together sometime and talk Rover it would be cool. i'm always up for meeting new people. Blue - truck only went to the dealer because they're the only ones that can read the computer. i wanted to know why check engine light is on. i pretty much knew i'd be telling the dealer "no" on a fix. thanks fo seeing my true intent on posting and the fact i was indeed not whining. i'm a do-it-yourselfer when i can. after the problems i had with Jeep dealers, i'm looking to have as little contact with any dealership as possible.   p m Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 06:37 pm:    Any good forms of preventative maintenance to help avoid sticky valve syndrome? Carl, i heard (and it made sense to me) that nearly WOT highway runs help to avoid the sticky valve syndrome... if that's so, my wife's helping a lot to keep our '96 in a good shape. Leslie, that was the first time i hear of a burnt valve in a 360 (in 4 years). never had this problem. peter   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 06:47 pm:    whot's a WOT?   Dee Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 02:00 am:    Wide Open throttle, PM go to C&M chevy on Balboa and have them flush your engine with the Bilstine Engine flush system, it great stuff   SoCalJoe Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 12:19 pm:    Dee, It's Joe. That flush gig really works? I was thinking of doing that as well. After the flush, probably a good idea to change your oil and crap too.   Erik G. Burrows (Erik) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 02:02 pm:    Is that true about running WOT? I thought that was more for engines with carberators.   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 02:07 pm:    update: i used this stuff called Valve Medic at lunch today. got it at Advance. Disco seems much happier. whether this is just a band-aid or it fixed the problem, only time will tell. now if i can figure out what's causing the vibration i'm getting in the front end i'll be at 100% (well, almost).   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 02:30 pm:    I'm considering an engine flush with my next oil change. They pump new oil & BG products/detergents through, run engine for about 20 minutes, drain, refill with new oil & BG additive.   MarkM Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 03:05 pm:    I was under the impression that the additives we add to the gas tank have little or no effect on the problem because it's the exhaust valves that are the likely ones to stick. Therefore, anything that we add to the fuel will have little effect on the valve problem because those additives focus on the intake system, including the injectors. I do think, thought, that it's good preventive maintenance. Please let me know if my logic is wrong here. I don't want to mislead anyone. Meanwhile my Disco is in the shop with noisy lifters. Of course there is the usual battle between the shop and the warranty company. Still waiting to hear. Looks like these guys really know what they're doing though. (As opposed to the dealer) -Mark   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 03:41 pm:    Mark - the Valve Medic is an oil addictive poured into the crank case. little different, and more powerful, but i'm not sure if it helps the exhaust valves much. your statement may still stand for this stuff as well. so far it seems to be helping, though. i had no overdrive before, and minutes after using the stuff i did. we shall see.......   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 03:47 pm:    Mantaray- I'll keep an eye out for you in the Burg. I've got a stock 95 Disco gold in color with plates "4THMTNS" and I'm usually cruising up and down Rivermont Avenue from work/home. Look forward to meeting you sometime...maybe at MAR?! I'm hoping to go!   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 04:14 pm:    Peter, Not only mine, but the fella who I shared an office with in grad school, his dad's old Wag with a 360 had the same thing happen to it years ago. There's a Jeep shop in the next town over, and the fella there says that the 360 having burned valves is one of the more common Jeep problems that he has tried to fix over the years (aside from rust), that it's a known issue that the AMC 360 is susceptible to them. Mark, Most of the products I've seen, you pull a vacuum line and feed it into the chamber until the engine chokes out, then let it sit..... thus (theoretically) soaking the deposits in both the intake and exhaust valves. -L   Dee Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 05:36 pm:    Joe, The Bilstine fulsh is done prior to the oil change, Several places in town do it now. After the flush a new filter and oil is added. The insides are as clean as new. Like i said before if it was trased prior to cleaning wont help. I am taking my Disco in next oil change I did it to my old Motor Home last year, 99k on a 454 perfect compression and no oil burn, that convinced me. Come by this weekend and ill look at the window if needed..   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 06:01 pm:    Susannah - when and where is MAR? i'm new to the Rover scene (bought it in December) so i'm not up to par on all this stuff. i'll keep an eye out for your Rover. i think i've seen it once or twice. my plate says R1VEN and i'm usually travelling up and down Timberlake. i work off Langhorne Rd. if i can find this "James" guy, maybe we can get a small D-Web meet and greet happening.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 11:39 pm:    MAR, Mid-Atlantic Rally, is the first weekend in October in Arvonia VA.... see the ROAV website for info (may not be updated yet, but will be before long)..... -L   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:24 am:    thanks Leslie. i'll have to check my schedule and see if i can make that weekend.   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 09:11 am:    Well, Leslie beat me to it! I'm new as well....sort-of. I've only been an owner since May, but an enthusiast for about 10 years!! It will be my first trip to the Rally as well....I've already blocked my business travel around it! I'll look for you and some time when I'm not out-of-town (which is often), we can all try to get together. There are a few other Rovers in town (I'm taking census) but most are Soccer Moms. I did see a great D1 (white) with winch and ladder the other day and the guy waved. It would be great to get a local group going.   MarkM Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 09:19 am:    -L I was considering the vacuum method with a product called SeaFoam, but was at a loss when trying to determine exactly how to get it into the engine via a vacuum port. Any ideas or expeience with this? Thanks, -Mark   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 10:55 am:    Follow the air intake passage from the filter box to the plenum. Just below where the air tube meets the plenum, is a rubber elbow. If you take off the air tube and look inside towards the plenum, you'll see a flapper valve, and where the elbow comes up from the rocker below into the mouth of the plenum chamber. I pulled the hose off the rocker, turned it so that it faced up, and poured seafoam in that way. Also, on the opposite side of the plenum, is the mate to this one... it comes out of the rocker and into the side of the plenum... it's longer, looks more like an L. I pulled it off the rocker cover and also turned it up, so that the Seafoam stuff would run into the plenum from the other side. It's hard to get the engine to actually choke out with this stuff.... you want to get enough in there, let it run for a few additional seconds, then cut it off if it didn't die on its own, and let it sit. After 15 minutes or so, when you start up your Rover, expect LOTS of white smoke. Let it run for a bit, then drive it around to get it all out... it may take a few minutes before all of the white smoke dissappears. As an aside, it's really great for discovering that you have a bit of an exhaust leak at the manifold-downpipe union.... lol.... That's how I did it, there may be other ways that might do better, but, I did notice a bit of difference after doing it the first time... didn't see as much return on tthe effort the second time (a week later, jsut seeing if doing it again would help more). I would have used BG44K to do this if I had found it locally, but I still haven't found the stuff... the Seafoam is a lot cheaper anyway.... FWIW... -L   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 12:17 pm:    Susuannah - what is it you do that takes you out of town so much? i think i've seen that white Rover. there's a green D1 with a safari rack and rear ladder, but he doesn't wave and seems to be a poser. there's a gold D2 across the street from where i live, but that one i'm pretty sure is pulling "soccer mom" duty. i'm free most evenings, but i go out of town a lot on weekends, so let me know when a hole in your schedule opens up and maybe we can plan how to get a goup together (flyers, d-web stickers, mass hypnosis..... ). there's a Jeep club and a Toyata Land Cruiser club here, so there should be a Rover club.   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 02:04 pm:    There is a guy that lives on my street that has "Seven Hills Jeep Club" on his windshield! I'm out of town mostly on weekends too....B/F lives about an hour north of here. And I travel in the fall for recruiting. I know a man with a green 95 who is a friend of a friend...but I'm not sure if he would be interested. There is a White Gold DII that lives around the Peakland area and she NEVER waves. Always looks scared!! Of course, I probably look like a soccer mom driving around in mine too! I really want to get a roof rack, but can't afford it! Maybe we can plan for something in a few weeks...I'm booked until then. Uh Oh-duty calls.   Neal Glessner (Nealg) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 03:17 pm:    I thought I needed a valve job so I took my truck to my mechanic. We first ran cleaner through the engine but it didn't work. Today he retarded the timeing three-degrees and the valve noice went away.   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 03:41 pm:    Sus - i've actually thought of attending a Seven Hills meeting (i own a '93 Jeep Wrangler too). the only guy i've ever had wave at me drives a charcoal grey D2. i see him on Timberlake all the time. everyone else either doesn't see me wave (or pretends not to) or just looks at me funny. Neal - i wish my problem was that easy to solve.   Sus (Susannah) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 03:43 pm:    Go for it! The guy on my street has people over from time to time...I know when there are three or four Jeeps parked on the road! We could have the Seven Hills Rover Club. But seriously, try to attend the MAR rally...I hear it's pretty fun and it's only about an hour from us!   mantaray (Mantaray) Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 05:44 pm:    if i'm ever available when they have a meeting i will. the club i used to wheel with at Tech wasn't brand specific. il ike those kinds of clubs better, but i'd be up for a Seven Hills Rover club, though i think we should think up a more original name. i'll try and make MAR, but there are a lot of things up in the air right now.