| Author |
Message |
    
Mark
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:00 pm: | 
|
About a month or two ago I asked if anyone had heard anything about the next generation Disco (not the 2003 changes to the Disco II). I watched the bulletin board as my question meandered it's way down the list of topics, but saw nothing.
Rather than give up, I thought I'd give it another try just in case it might have missed the attention of someone in "the know."
Anyone out there know of any new info regarding this vehicle other than what's said under the "future models" section of The Land Rover Chronicle.com?
If no one has any info, I promise that I won't pester y'all anymore.
TIA,
Mark |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:11 pm: |
|
It's really hard to say at this point. The Defender that's due out before the New(er) Disco is very much up in the air. I'm sure we can all guess at what the new Disco will be like but even if someone is "in the know" things could chage with the sales figures of this current CDL enabled Disco or with the sales of the new Rangie. Each may have an influence on the direction of Land Rover. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:10 pm: |
|
its gonna have soccer ball compartments |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 09:55 pm: |
|
And optional expresso machine but we're not sure if the US market will get that one. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 10:07 pm: |
|
The expresso machine will be availabe in the US by late 2006 by special order only, unfortunatly they will be next to imposible to get because the stealerships won't feel like special ordering them for you and the ones they do order will get put on ebay motors so losers can buy them for $5,000 over the sticker price. |
KJ
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 11:39 pm: |
|
But....what about the cup holders?????
Karen  |
mark
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 07:48 am: |
|
I guess this means I'm not going to get a straight answer to my question. Or, more probably, no one has any info about this vehicle.
mark |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 08:27 am: |
|
Went to the dealership Saturday to fill out the Freelander-Teva test-drive card, and chatted for a bit.
The sales guide there said that the Disco III should be bigger, to make it a "true seven-seater" so that it can compete with the other 7-seaters. Also said that Ford is planning on giving Land Rover a broader spectrum, that there's going to be a vehicle introduced that is between the Disco and the Rangie. Independent suspension, but he didn't know if it would have a leveraging system like the new Rangie has.
FWIW....
-L |
Mike Carino (Mikec)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 10:04 am: |
|
I was at the dealership this weekend looking at the '03 discovery and talking with the rep. He showed me an article in I think LRM that showed a spy shot of a ford explorer body on a test chassis. You can tell it was cobbled on there and a keen eye would notice it wasn't a normal version of the explorer but a test bed with a new chassis. The coolest part of the article was that they stated that there might be two wheel bases for the disco, a longer base for true seven passenger hauling and a shorter wheel base w/o the seven seating capacity. Other than that, like all spy photo's and articles, it was pure speculation. |
Gil Stevens (Gil)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:57 am: |
|
yeah.. and the downside of that article was the "explorer/disco mule" had an independent front suspension. |
offrovn
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 01:42 pm: |
|
Hurry and get a real disco while you can. After Ford truly has its hands in design of the rover with any resemblance exterior or interior or chassis, it will be horrible. That's when its time to buy used and hope for the best I guess. Any others feel the same. Maybe I am uninformed, but I am not looking forward to the Disco III at all. |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 01:50 pm: |
|
Anybody see the new Hummer H2? A Suburban made to look like a Hummer.
How about the new Jaguar x-type? It is a Ford Contour platform.
You can bet that Rover will be merged with Ford, especially on what they deem will be the top sellers. Some Jaguars are still like Jaguars. If that is the case, maybe the Defender will carry the Land Rover tradition forward while the others go the way of the ford/rover hybrid approach.
Tom |
Mark
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:00 pm: |
|
Offrovn,
That's why I posed the question originally. I'm scared that Ford is going to adulterate the brand's key concepts (i.e. off-road ability) in their quest to quell the appetites of the legions of soccer Moms.
There is hope in my opinion. Case in point: despite being radically changed under BMW stewardship, the new Range Rover (with unibody, independent suspension, etc.) is testing remarkably well off-road. Don't believe it? Two recent Land Rover only magazines have said that with street tires, the new Range Rover is better in many off-road situations than a Defender with off-road tires. Maybe this kind of technology can give the next generation Discovery better off-road ability despite a less traditional body/suspension set-up. My other fear is that the departure of Wolfgang Rietzle from Ford will cost Land Rover an advocate for maintaining the "core values" of the company.
Mark |
Mike Carino (Mikec)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:16 pm: |
|
I think Ford will have a hand in the new Land Rover trucks to a point. Like Tom stated, Jaguar and Ford share some platforms and Aston Martin share engines. But Ford for the most part has left their acquistions( Aston Martin, Jaguar and Volvo) pretty much alone. I would be surprised if they tried to make Land Rovers and Ford trucks alike in any way. Even the Explorer and Mountaineer had different four wheel drive systems. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:19 pm: |
|
Mark, I don't buy it. Sorry... I'm not a nay sayer. LRM and the like are very biased. Time will tell how the new Rangie holds up. I can tell you from experience that the engine will hold up MUCH better than the other offerings from Land Rover but I can't say that about the rest of the vehicle.
Leslie, What leveraging system are you referring to that's on the Rangie? |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:25 pm: |
|
In order to get an independent-suspension to act like a solid axle, Land Rover has a "hydraulic" (I'm assuming) proportioning system. As, say, your driver's tire is being stuffed up into the wheelwell while crossing an obstacle, the system exherts a force down on the passenger's side, thus simulating the same thing as a live axle transferring the leverage that is normally seen.
Thus, theoretically, you get solid-axle traction combined with independent suspension articulation.
If it really works, which, the LR mags are raving about, then it sounds like a feasible setup for an independent-suspension vehicle.
FWIW....
-L |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:28 pm: |
|
Ah, found it. It's using the EAS system to accomplish it. From the LR site:
"The Electronic Air Suspension (EAS) helps maintain optimum ride height by adjusting each air spring according to load distribution. When driving off-road, cross-link valves within the EAS open (automatically, via terrain-sensing software) to allow maximum wheel articulation for better off-road capability and comfort."
FWIW....
-L |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
|
Yikes... I'm even less impressed now even though thats kinda how I thought the Rangie was doing it. Not that I don't think EAS works. It's just that from use in my D2 it can get confused when off road. Not to mention that the compressor will be working overtime to fill-deflate-fill the air bags in most conditions. Then add the fact that the compressor may have a hard time filling up fast enough. Now I'm sure the new rangie has a more advanced (read complex) system than the SLS in my D2. I'll wait and see. My guess is that it will work as well as ETC sans CDL.
But I do agree with your quote...
"Thus, theoretically, you get solid-axle traction combined with independent suspension articulation. " |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 02:38 pm: |
|
Allow me to also further emphasize "theoretically", too.....
-L |
Deepthroat
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 08:18 pm: |
|
The next genearation Discovery (already being tested around the world) shares many features with RR, ie no frame, axles, etc (nothing new here, many features developed for RR have made their way to Discovery and Defender). It will also grow for true 7 seat capacity. Something they tried to do with RR but just couldn't. Instead of a shorter wheel base Discovery, a new entry level LR was to be developed. LR folks hated the idea, Mr. Rietzle was pushing very hard for it, so now it's anyone guess. The next generation Freelander (remember Freelander is 5 years old!) is being co-developed with Volvo.
Because of profit margins, RR Sport (some call it the baby RR) and Discovery will be developed and launched before Defender, so we're going to have to wait at least 5 more years before Defender comes to the US.
The EAS of RR is crosslinked, which keeps it from getting 'confused' which can happen on the Discovery.
Deepthroat
PS forget expresso, give me real coffee, Land Rover coffee of course! |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 08:22 pm: |
|
Sounds more and more like my next rover will be a used Rover or a new G-class. |
mark
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 10:40 pm: |
|
Just to add a little speculative "fuel to the fire", I've read that Mercedes will replace the G-wagen with a very off-road worthy version of the M-class. Before you gawk, know that it's supposed to have very different sheetmetal than the M-class for better approach/departure/breakover angles, a "hose-out" rubber interior (not making this up), air suspension, three locking diffs, and a significantly lower price than the current G-wagen. If this is true, and Land Rover chooses to dumb down the off-road ability of the next Disco, it'd be a depressing state of affairs for Land Rover nuts like myself. Heck, I'd even consider switching brands if Land Rover doesn't strive to stay on top of the heap of other 4x4 SUVs.
Mark |
isaac
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
|
It is spelled ESPRESSO for heavens sake!!! not e"X"presso ...
In regards to future acquisition of Land Rover products, one's parlance must be impeccable theretofore.
a concerned citizen,
isaac |
LR Max
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 08:38 am: |
|
Hey y'all, don't bash the new Rangie unless you have seen one doing its stuff. This past weekend at the Uhwarrie event a new 2003 Range Rover showed up. I was impressed by its design and the owner even let me drive it! It rode very good and was a blast to drive (even though it was only 3 minutes around the camp site). Later the owner took it out on the trails and I heard it did extremely well. To say the least it came back muddy.
I think we need to give it time, sorta like the D2, it might take some time to warm up to them but you will find them extremely capable.
Now the Freelander....yea.
Max T. |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 12:27 am: |
|
The July LRO has a face off between the new RR and a TD5 D90. The RR came out on top by a hair.. I would recommend reading the article to understand all the rigamaroll that they put the two trucks through. Basicly they said that the ETC helped the RR do so well. Good read though.
JK |
mustache
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 02:12 am: |
|
i just read this interesting thread @ D-90.com, it shed a little speculative light in the subject of the new... thing.
http://www.d-90.com/discus/index.html
i am so sad inside. |
mark
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 02:47 pm: |
|
guys,
i figure nobody else is reading this thread, but just in case someone does....
i found a new link to info on the third generation Disco
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/20860.htm |
Dave
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 03:18 pm: |
|
Figures, I read today Ford is discontinuing sales of the Excursion.
Looks as though, if they extend it to 113 wheelbase, the Disco will take up that long wheelbase slot.... |
Willie Joubert (Willie)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 04:11 pm: |
|
A fourth Rover is coming.
The new version of the Defender is coming in 2005 after the Freelander gets a major facelift, soon....maybe as soon as 2004.
Then we will see the new Rover, slotted in between the Rangie and the 2003 Disco, then only will we see a complete new Disco in 2006.
Trust me.... |
Deepthroat
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 11:05 pm: |
|
Bad news. LRNA has decided not to offer CDL on 03 Discovery. We'll be the only market w/o CDL. It sucks!
Deepthroat |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 09:58 pm: |
|
Jeremy,
Hey I read that artical in LRO. They say at the end if the Defender 90 they tested the RR against had ETC it would of won HANDS DOWN, NO CONTEST over the RR. Like you said the ETC is the only reason why the RR won the tests it did..with out it the RR would not have made it very far. I guess if Land Rover make all there shit changes to the Disco and does`nt bring over the Defenders i`ll be going back to a J**P. I hope my 2002 Disco lives a LOOOONG LIFE!!! |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 10:27 pm: |
|
Jeff, I saw an 03 Rangie on the trails. We spent a couple of days with it and I have to say I was very impressed with it. It's much better than I thought it would be. But even with ETC the Rangie didn't come close to the D90's on the same trails. The edge for traction went to the RR but that's it. Traction problems on a D90 can easily be over come with a locker (or maybe even a SLABS ECU) but I would hate to try and solve the breakover angle issue on a IFS/IRS RR. |
Jeff Anderson (Groovydude)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 10:31 pm: |
|
Al,
Well what do you think, Will ford/LRNA bring over the Defender class for 2005 and if so will it just be the D-90 or maybe the D-90 and D-110. I`m hopeing they bring out both since I would love to own a 110. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 10:34 pm: |
|
Who knows.... and who knows what the new Defenders will be like. Right now I think we have a better chance of getting a good D110 by 2005 from Mercedes when the G500's start comming off lease. |
GLENH
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 12:07 am: |
|
I JUST HOPE THAT I AM NOT FORCED TO BUY A CHEAP..OOPS, I MEANT JEEP. WHY IN THE HELL IS FORD SCREWING WITH THE LAND ROVER REPUTATION. AND WHO WAS THE MORON WHO "SOLD OUT" TO THIS MERGER?....GOD HELP US !! |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 12:18 am: |
|
Anyone ever put a SLABS unit into a disco SI? I am guessing that it would be a very involved process. Would be intresting to hear about. I know ETC is a option in the Disco SII what do people think about it?
JK |
Norm
| | Posted on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:14 pm: |
|
The problem I see with ETC, EAS, ACE, etc., etc., etc. and all this stuff on the new Range Rovers and Discos is that it's electronic gimmickery (no matter how well it works off the showroom floor) and thus prone to a brain fart that will leave you high and dry (or low and wet) at the worst possible moment -- and all for $68,000 and comeasurately expensive repairs. At that rate I think I'd rather fork out $73K for a Mercedes G-500 -- at least I'd be getting something tough and reliable for the money with all the bells and whistles that will hold it's value.
If only LR/Ford would bring back to the US a basic, tough, off-road worthy vehicle with solid axels and a ladder frame (like the current Defenders). God knows Jeep sells A LOT of CJs in this country and they aren't worth a shit compared to a Defender. The top of the line CJ goes for what -- $24K? LR could sell Defenders all day for $30K and corner the market (put Japanese electrics in it if they have to).
I wish LR/Ford would pull it's head out of it's ass, but instead, they've "got a better idea" to maximize profits -- like the Edsel.
---Norm |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:44 pm: |
|
Norm,
In general I would agree with you. The more electronics the more the liability for failure. I don't think ETC would hinder you if it failed though.. I might be wrong. I am guessing that you would just loose the ABS and the ETC not breaking all together. I wouldn't mind having ETC if I could get it into my D1 at a reasonable price. The risk of it giving up the ghost compared to the help it may offer seems reasonable if it wont lock up my breaks apon failure
I really doubt that we will be seeing rigs that have solid axels and ladder frames being intoduced as new models in the US for much longer. It seems that there will probly be current models (jeep, toyota) which will offer their current product. But everything that I hear about that is comming out has unibody and/or IFS/IRS... Maybe that is just rumor. I even heard the G500 was going to be looking/acting like its ML brother. The market has proven that a SUV really just needs to be road worthy (X5, CRV, Freelander, etc, etc) Yes, there are exceptions to the rule the Jeep Rubicon is one that comes to mind.
One of the reasons I bought my Disco is that I could work on it and figure out what is going on with it and it can really get offroad in stock form. I will probly keep it until it needs a frame up restoration. Then we will see, maybe there will be a niche market for simpler trucks, I hope Land Rover is still in that market w/ a Defender like vehicle but I won't hold my breath.
JK |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 06:24 pm: |
|
I'm with you JK, I don't care for electronics on my off road vehicles. I love it on my street cars but on the trail I don't want to depend on it to get me home. But as you said ETC won't keep you from getting home anymore than ABS would. As long as you have a mechanical backup such as CDL. I have thought about getting a D2 SLABS unit into a D90 or D1 to see if the ETC would work but if it broke you should still be able to drive home. |
Not me
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 06:31 pm: |
|
Here's what I know.
The next generation Disco will NOT have a ladder boxed frame. It WILL be unibody and share the same platform as the Explorer.
(True story: when the merger happened the Ford 4x4 development guys called the LR techs and admitted that they have no clue and asked for enlightenment)
Also, as I understand it, the model slated to sit between the New Rangie and the 03 Disco will be a re-worked version of the Old Rangie. Not sure if this is finalized yet, but that was the last I heard. |
Chris (C_M_Sharpe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 07:49 pm: |
|
I completely agree with Norm's rant. Give me a basic Rover w/out the electronics and power everything. How about a stripped down Disco if you wont bring the defender back? there is a market. The Rubicon with its stock front and rear lockers is proof of that. Its maddening ...and the future seems worse. A 80k Rangerover trying to compete with the sports sedans, the Freelander which I am convinced is a rebadged rav4 and the disco which is becoming more and more loaded with electronics.... |
Jeremy Katka (Jkatka)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 07:53 pm: |
|
Al,
They do have a SLABS unit for the D90 in the UK, I think it has been an option on the Defender for a year or two now. If you have a D90 I am guessing that this would be the easiest fit as there would be a wiring harness and such that would fit. If you do the conversion make sure you take pictures. I am intrested in seeing it.
JK |
Norm
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:08 pm: |
|
My problem is not with electronics per se, but that the new and future Rovers seem to be totally dependent on gimmickery instead of solid hardware to go off road. Why not a Defender with all locking differentials standard and the electronics (for those who want it) as options? We all know how great Rover electronics are, right? And that excellent and very affordable customer service at the dealership? (And IFS indeed sucks, just ask anyone who's taken a full size Bronco or an Exploder off road.)
You can bet that all this electronic bs will alienate the military market which still is a significant part of LR's business. If LR/Ford has any sense at all, they'll continue the Defender in it's present form or something close to it. So why not bring it to the USA?
Where I live, at least 1 in 10 vehicles on the road are Jeep Wranglers -- just about everybody has one, even if they don't take them off road. The thing is, LR has a superior machine in the Defender and would capture this market if they only brought them over at a reasonable price.
LR is about to take a severe beating from the Honda Pilot in the soccer mom market and from upscale Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, Porche, etc. in the Lux/Poseur class. LR better come up with a legitimate off-road vehicle for the US market if they expect to keep trading on the rugged Land Rover image of yore.
The way things are looking from LR, my next off road vehicle will be either a Mercedes or a Toyota and probably used.
---Norm |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:29 pm: |
|
Well said Norm. I don't know why Land Rover is jumping ship on the real SUV market when there is less and less competition there every day. There is money to be made in niche markets. If the new D90 or 2005 Disco is as lame as we're hearing then my next vehicle will be a G-Wagen (used unless the market turns around). |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page