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Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Locker Envy from OZ. Steve Foster 1  1  03-01-02  05:37 am   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 03:34 pm:    I have a question to those with True Tracks in the front and detroits in the rear. How many times have you had to winch since installing the lockers? What were the circumstances? Making up my mind about what comes next! Payday is Friday.   rover4x4 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:07 pm:    ARB   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:09 pm:    Get the winch first. You'll always have to winch no matter how many toys you have on your truck.   r0ver4x4 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:12 pm:    . WHat have you already done to your truck I agree with the above   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:15 pm:    I haven never seen the end of a winch cable on my truck, locked or otherwise. A tow strap, now that's a different story. Seriously, which discussion do you want to have? Which lockers to get or lockers vs. winch or in general, what should I get next based upon the fact that I already have A, B, and C? Tom   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:17 pm:    Big Blue Monsters Ordering OME shocks from EE after friday. 235-85's bfg mt's built recovery points for the front.   dookie Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:19 pm:    you thought about bumpers and stuff like that yet?   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:23 pm:    yes, protection should be next unless you want to pay to fix bodywork instead of paying for mods. I would vote for front/rear custom bumpers and sliders. A nice winch should go with the front bumper - see winch discussion to confuse that decision. Tom   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:23 pm:    Hank, If you get a TT front and DL rear, that's almost $1k for the parts alone. Add another $500 for install. That's $1500. Your truck will have tons of traction, but that just means you'll get yourself into more hairy situations where you'll need a winch. ARB bumper is $620. Warn XD9000 is $800. That's $1420, although shipping on these items costs a lot. Superwinch X9 is slightly less and some think it's a better winch than the XD9000. You're better off with the latter combination in my opinion. If you can't make a hill open, just winch up it. But at least you'll make it through the trail and get home. With lockers you can play the hero by jumping over everything but you can quickly go from hero to zero by getting seriously stuck and without a means to extricate yourself. Being a non-hero is better than going from hero to zero.   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:25 pm:    "which discussion do you want to have?" I asked ... How many times have you had to winch since installing the lockers? What were the circumstances? Just wondering how much further down the trail this setup has taken those who have installed it, and how many times they have uncoiled the winch cable and to explain the circumstances. I don't see much rock crawling. Mostly trail riding, mud runs, creek crossings, hunting and launch my boat from a primitive boat ramp quite often. I am trying to get a feel for the setup and what advantages I will see if I choose to install it.   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:25 pm:    definatly John...get some D-WEB stickers too they give traction power and lots of other things...protection is important   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:27 pm:    a rear ARB would be a good canidate..   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:28 pm:    "How many times have you had to winch since installing the lockers? What were the circumstances?" I don't think anybody has answered your question because it wouldn't shine any light upon your inquiry of how much the traction diffs help. There is no no doubt the traction diffs help tremendously and will take you where you have never gone before. However, those same places will be much more difficult than the more easily accessed places and thus require more winching. So any number someone throws out will be essentially meaningless.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:32 pm:    What everyone is saying Hank is that they do work and they do take you further. Now , what happens when you get stuck in there "Further". For starters , who the hell is gonna come get you ? Up until recently Tom in his sex machine wasnt going to cause he didnt have a means of self recovery either. So at that point you are looking for someone with lockers and a winch to come rescue your happy ass. YOu can go much further in an open diffed truck with a good winch then you will ever go with everything including the windows and doors locked up. How many times have I had to winch ? Many , if I havnt had to break out the winch atleast once I am thinking the trail I am on is kinda gay...Your question is a tough one because you want info from us so you can relate it to your invironment. Well , your regualr trail may be as such that a couple lockers will get you in and out and you never have to worry about a winch.. I know this though , the more upgrades , the harder things you go looking for..... Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:41 pm:    get on the scene ooooh ah like a sex machine hit me now! tom   PerroneFord Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 04:47 pm:    Hank, I faced much the same problem as you. But these guys are giving you great advice. And Kyle was right on the money, so was John Lee. Lockers are terrific to have and will allow you to go through an amazing amount of stuff, but I don't think anyone would advocate lockers over a winch. In my case, all my wheeling partners have winches and so I haven't gotten one yet. I made up my mind to get a winch last fall. Two weeks later I blew up my front diff. So for me, the lockers are coming first. It's not the choice I would have made otherwise. However, a lot depends on who you wheel with. If your normal wheeling group is a bunch of guys with open diffs and no winches, the you really should get a winch first. If they all have lockers and a bunch have winches, I'd get the lockers first. Nothing like being on the end of a strap all day, week after week, and month after month. In any event, the winch and winch bumper will give you front recovery points, a means self-recovery, protection for the front of the truck, and a platform for lights. -P   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:05 pm:    Yeah, I agree with perrone on lockers vs. winch, as I have never been in a spot where i said, "now, if I had a winch, I wouldn't be screwed right now." This was because of where I wheeled and who I wheeled with. But like Kyle said, "Well , your regualr trail may be as such that a couple lockers will get you in and out and you never have to worry about a winch.. I know this though , the more upgrades , the harder things you go looking for..... " Just gotta know your situation. Tom   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:07 pm:    Thanks for all the replys. Let me rephrase my question. If you could get a TT for the front and Detroit for the rear purchased and installed for $500, would you save your money and wait on the winch? Or go for it?   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:21 pm:    Go for it. By all means, go for it. Just do it. Do it and don't look back. (Is that what you wanted to hear?)   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:24 pm:    no, dont' do it. i think it's a trap.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:30 pm:    For $500 installed that deal is too good to pass by. However, if you end up with your foot in a big steal set of jaws, don't say Ho didn't tell you so. Tom   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:31 pm:    Sorry John, I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Just wanted to add the details. Could it be that your upset because I'm not buying them from you? Hank   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:33 pm:    sell it to me for $500, then take that money plus a credit card and buy the winch & bumper rd   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:53 pm:    For 500 bucks , if they are new , I would jump on it.... Kyle   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 05:56 pm:    Hank, LOL, you got me. I bow to your brilliance yet again. Even though you explicitly told me in your two private emails that you were getting the diffs from your friend way before you posted that tidbit on this board and well before I posted, that piece of information didn't get through to me. And even though you emailed Ho and me several weeks ago and asked us to match someone else's price on a DL and we told you to go with that other price, that didn't tell me you weren't getting the DL and TT from us either. And even though you've emailed Ho and me and asked for EE stickers and never bought anything from us but we sent you the stickers anyway, that wasn't a warning that you were too cheap to spend the $1,000 for a TT and DL from us. All of this didn't get through to me because believe it or not, my skull is even thicker than yours. So go ahead and buy your TT and DL from your friend and enjoy your newfound traction. You will be able to be the hero of your little group of Rover buddies. But when you find yourself really stuck in a bad place, you're in for a rude awakening. And when you snap a rear halfshaft and grenade the DL with it, you'll be looking really sexy stranded on the trail with no winch.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:05 pm:    Did you two used to go out? I sense a lot of old hostility. Tom   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:16 pm:    I guess I'm wrong for looking for the best deal and some friendly advice? Whatever John. I will be removing your free advertising from the rear window of my truck. Try to get some rest, your way too uptight.   r0ver4x4 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:32 pm:    haha...lockers are for pussys anyways...   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:37 pm:    Hank you deserved what you got. If you don't like getting jabbed then don't throw jabs yourself   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:37 pm:    You guys funny :rolleyes: I see one locker and one limited grip, what's up with this talk of LOCKERS? There is only one!   PerroneFord Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:55 pm:    Well, Taking this is a slightly different direction, on common trails where both front wheels are staying in contact with the ground, how much traction does the truetrac give away to a locker like the ARB? I've read about the lockers vs. limited slip no end, but have not yet seen any real numbers to describe how much differentian the truetrac can provide. Is it 75% of a locker, 90% of a locker, more or less? And this is not intended to start a flame, just real interest since mine are shipping to me next week. Thanks -P   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 06:58 pm:    perrone, i dont' think there's a real way of putting a number in this. as the name says, LSD is limited. thats' all i can say.   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:43 pm:    buy the lockers and the winch...solves all the problems.   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 07:51 pm:    You're wrong Ho. There is an answer: Q) How many times have you had to winch since installing the lockers? A) Tuesday Q) What were the circumstances? A) I like spaghetti There Hank. You are now a wise Jedi Master. Just don't forget your light saber upgrade when you put in your rear Detroit.   JMcD Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 08:13 pm:    Well well, I have finally solved this problem that has so many people angry and upset. Hank, buy the winch and bumper and go down to the local welding shop and have them weld the FRONT and REAR diffs with some old fashioned ROD!! You will have a true spool in both axles, a winch and bumper so when you snap the halfshafts, you can have your friends tow you home!!!??? OK? Problem solved!! Now stop being a dick to guys who (seem) to be trying to help you. JMcD   Mike B. Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:03 pm:    I've watched Bruce P's 97 Disco with duel True Tracks very closely on the trail (since I'm totally unlocked, you might say that I am suffering from TT envy). The TTs works very well as long as all of the wheels are on the ground. As soon as one gets lifted, it seems to revert to working just like an open diff. All 4 wheels spinn pretty much evenly when he is stuck. We have mostly sand and mud here, no rocks, so I can't tell you how they work on Rocks. Thanks, Mike B.   PerroneFord Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:17 pm:    Mike, Does he ever use the brakes to "fool" the truetrac and try to get them to lock up? Hopefully I can make it down there at the end of March, and we can have open vs. dual TT, vs. TT/DL comparisons in this terrain. Does anyone in the regular group have a video camera?? -P   Craig M. Highland (Shortbus) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 09:32 pm:    The way I see it is: If you have to ask, you're not ready. Instead of looking for the simple 'tell me what to do' answer, do some homework first. A driver with experience knows what, why, when and how each mod will effect his/her rig. Get some seat time first, and base your decision on mods from experience. Not how many times someone else has winched. The answer provides no real usable criteria to make a solid decision on mods. All day long I get customers with the same agenda. ie.. tell me what I need. and guess what? they never learn.. I've never met John Lee, and in some aspects, he's actually a competitor of mine, but his knowledge of Rovers didn't come free. It took serious time a serious money to get to where he is. and, I value his opinions.. How about a section on the BB just for the 'CB' crowd? Craig 'pissing off Texas one Texan at a time'   Bruce Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:10 pm:    P, I have learned to use the brakes to fool the TTs. As a matter of fact, Mike B. was talking me out of an off-camber situation when we discovered using the brake to lock-up from a dead stop. It is tooo coool. For Hank's question, his $500 install is good, that is what I paid for my F&R install. Hank has to also realize that along with the DL in rear, he needs new axles else he will snap the orginals. As far as winch versus traction, I am with you P on this one since most everyone I wheel with are winch equipped. I will get a winch sooner or later, just not sure if it will be electric or manual, like a Black Rat or others of this type. A price of $350 is easy to swallow versus new bumper and e-winch. Anyway, I would enjoy you coming down to do some testing of different setups. See ya.   Moe Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:11 pm:    "I will be removing your free advertising from the rear window of my truck" Hank, that's going to really hurt business, and it's also a bit ironic given that you asked for the stickers. To get back to your original question. Lockers or traction diffs don't infect the Disco with magic that ensure it will glide trouble free across obstacles. You still have to think and a just a small slip can put you and the vehicle at risk. That is where the winch comes in. In my opinion, a winch and protection should always come before lockers in the Discovery. Weinstein took these pics last week of my DL/TT Disco wanting to explore the valley of to the side. It doesn't look like a big deal but without the winch an and experienced crew the five minute recovery could have taken hours by alternative means. http://www.discoweb.org/walltrail/IMG_0350.jpg http://www.discoweb.org/walltrail/IMG_0351.jpg   Steve Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:21 pm:    Well heres my 2 cents worth. At the risk of being on the receiving end of some ridicule. My DiscoI has open diffs at both ends and my dodge dakota has an open front and a rear limited slip. I don't own a winch. My off road time is generally work related as I do construction equipment training and spend a lot of time chasing scrapers, pulls and dump trucks out in the dirt and mud. The dodge can go further when the going gets muddy. The limited slip. The Disco can tackle rougher country. Higher and better approach angles. I've used both vehicles for pulling trucks and equipment out of the mud. That's pulling on rubber as opposed to winching.(Here's where I get flamed.) The dodge with the limited slip has been better than the rover. If I get stuck, it hasn't happened yet. (just watch tomorrow it'll happen) I've got enough dozers around to pull me out so I haven't needed a winch yet. If I was on my own out there, I'd buy a winch first and the limited slip second. Respectfully submitted, Still playing in the dirt with the big tonka toys. Steve   Moe (Moe) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:33 pm:    "The Disco can tackle rougher country. Higher and better approach angles" And that is why a winch is important. In the rougher country those big tonka toys are less likely to be able to make it in to help out. How do you recover your dump trucks when they are stuck?   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:36 pm:    When ever I hear somone saying "I dont need a winch , I ride with buddies that have them" I get this feeling in my brain like broken glass. Well how about not carrying a spare tire cause others have them , and a highlift ?? I am sure someone in the group will have that as well. How about food and water ? Shit , why not leave your truck at home and just ride with them ? I have been in situations where I had to repeatedly winch 4-5 trucks over obstacles that didnt have winches and it takes forever. I didnt mind doing it at all cause these are my compadres and we get through however we need to. BUT , what if I didnt take care of my junk ? What if my junk was not capable of doing back to back to back to back pulls ? There are alot of things you take for granted when you make statements about other peoples equipment and capabilities. When I bought my winch I took these things into consideration but most dont and get enough winch to handle their own needs. Just like they bring a spare tire for them and food and water for them. Look at it this way. The essense of our sport is basically going out and trying to get stuck. You may not look at it that way but in reality thats what it is. You are just out there looking for it to happen. I think is monumentally foolish to not be prepared for it or depend on others to save your ass when it happens. But then again , as said in other posts of mine , it seems popular to take no reponsibility for yourself and just rely on someone else to save your ass when things go wrong... Kyle   John Lee Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:49 pm:    Moe, Nice pics. We needed the winch last weekend at Truckhaven. My friend got on a side slope and his truck was crabbing down the slope toward doom: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/truckhaven2/DSC01562.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/truckhaven2/DCP_0956.jpg This situation was extremely precarious. We first tried airing down his tires to extremely low pressure and moving the truck under its own power, but the truck went straight sideways and made the situation worse. He's open diff too, and lockers would have made the situation only worse. Here's a side view of what the hill looked like and how much down time there would have been had my friend slipped down the hill: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/truckhaven2/P2230003.jpg Even with the winch, this recovery took us at least 30 minutes and I'm guessing close to an hour or more. Without the winch, I'm not sure what we would have done. Another important thing to mention is that the terrain was such that I had to put my vehicle facing my friend's vehicle and we had to use both of our winch cables to span the valley separating our two trucks. If only one of us had a winch, there would have been more problems. My friend returned the favor that very night during our night run after dinner. I drove to the top of a steep hill that we had never been on before. When I got to the top, my headlights were pointed upward and I couldn't see the terrain ahead of me. As I always do in such situations, I stopped the truck and got out for a peek. I'm glad I stopped, because the trail came to an end and my truck was perched like so: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/truckhaven2/DCP_0997.jpg http://www.expeditionexchange.com/truckhaven2/DCP_0999.jpg I have little doubt that had I driven a foot or two more, I would have rolled down the hill. The situation was such that I couldn't back up under my own power. Luckily, my friend, his winch, his skilled use of the winch, and my other trail buddies' spotting and such saved the night.   Disco_Dad Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:12 am:    Hey Moe was that the run Dan sent me pictures of? Dee   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:18 am:    Lets put this in terms all can understand, having a winch is just like having those condoms next to your bed, you can play without one but its a much safer and less risky when you have one on   Moe (Moe) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:22 am:    I have to agree. No one plans on getting in trouble but we do. Having quality recovery equipment and people that are skilled users, allows one to push the limits a little and enjoy what the vehicle offers. John, great examples.   Steve Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:27 am:    John, I love those photos. That was a beautiful place to get stuck. As Kyle said, "The essense of our sport is basically going out and trying to get stuck." Being prepaired makes getting stuck fun and not a problem. Being unprepaired is like skydiving without a parachute, an exciting ride with a bad landing. Moe, You are correct, the rougher the country, the more important having a winch becomes. As to whether the big tonka toys can get to you and how you pull trucks out, you pull the trucks out by putting an 1-1/8" Polprop line in a rear recovery shackle on the pick-up or disco and put the eye on the other end in the rear pintle hitch of the dumptruck or semi trailer. With both the truck and you pulling it works on most occasions. If you can't get them back to traction that way, you use a Cat 966 loader or a Cat D8 dozer. If the loader gets stuck, you use the dozer. When the Dozer sinks, it did last year, you dig a ramp down to it with a 825 excavator, use the excavator as an anchor, tie a cable it and the other end to the treds on the dozer and have the dozer drive up the cable, similar to using a recovery ramp. It's fun and they even pay me for it. Steve   JMcD Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 08:22 am:    John, Can I have an EE sticker? To help make up for all the business you will undoubtedly lose by by not having one on the back of Hanks rig?? Thanks, I am sure the Rover groupie chicks will flock to me now.. JMcD   Hank Shank (Disco_Tex) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:36 am:    I would like to apologize for the immature way I replied to you yesterday John. Now someone buy my Colt so I can get both.   JMcD Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:11 am:    Hank, I would love to buy your colt, but I am very afraid that if I buy one more gun my wife will leave me and take my 96 disco with her.. However, I will say that your gun is a great deal,and anyone who is near enough to you to buy it without the big brother paper trail would be crazy not to.. Just my opinion,, hope you get the disco mods and can keep the 1911 JMcD   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:33 am:    if there is any doubt as to the need for winches and/or lockers just buy the Moab video.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:40 am:    Hank, what's the deal with your Colt?   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:46 am:    just saw classified ad....   Bruce Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 06:56 pm:    Yo Kyle, Who said "I don't need a winch"? I think your tirade was off course a bit, don't you? The premise of the discussion is which first, not one or the other. Given each of our own unique wheeling scenarios including terrain and equipped vehicles, we provided an answer. Who in the hell are you to criticize one's choice unless it has a direct impact on you and if it does, then choose not to help and make your bold statement. That will teach them a good lesson for having the balls to wheel with you and of course this will expand your realm of friends. Sounds like you are venting because you are the target of saving other's ass. That is your choice and maybe answers that broken glass stuff in your brain for your need to be the savior. If you continually find yourself saving other�s ass Kyle, you have the power to select alternatives that don�t depend on your ability to recovery their rigs. There will always be people out there that will take the easy route and ride on other�s coat tails and then there are those who are not simply there yet, but fully intentioned to become recovery-independent. For those who choose to wheel alone and are not prepared, too bad and don't call me for your stupid antics. For this very reason, I wheel in a group until such time as I get all of my recovery needs addressed. Once I have everything I need, I will still wheel in a group and help others out, but I won�t stand around and bitch about personal responsibility and how it impacts me so much� All I hear from your tirade is me me me!!! Sounds like you have a militant opinion that one should not wheel if they are not fully recovery-independent. Shit, I get so tired of this rant from these so called off-road purists and their almighty attitudes of superiority. Give it a rest man. Now I think we have both run-off course here a bit. The premise again was, which is first, not one or the other.   JMcD Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:35 pm:    OK, first the winch, next the lockers. This is getting old, but I keep reading, why? Does that mean I need therapy? JMcD   Kyle Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:36 pm:    Actually Bruce my post wasnt directed at any single individual but rather a frame of mind that some individuals seem to have. It certainly wasnt addressing the posted because if you read I told him to jump on the diffs with both feet. If it hit home with you somehow , well , get over it....Also , if you read my post at all I said in there that I dont mind doing it. Dont you want some control over your fate or is it best left in the hands of others ? Kyle   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:41 pm:    wait, first the lockers, than the winch   Kyle Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 07:44 pm:    Typically I would say no. But lets face it. This guy got a smoking deal that might not stick around long... Kyle   John Lee Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:21 am:    Bruce, "Who in the hell are you to criticize one's choice unless it has a direct impact on you and if it does, then choose not to help and make your bold statement." Well, in all fairness, Hank basically asked the world for opinions. And not only is Kyle a member of the public, he is one of the people who work so hard to bring us this board. If Hank didn't want to hear everyone's opinions, he wouldn't have posted publicly. So I think Kyle has standing to answer Hank's question. If you disagree with his statement, that is fine. But I think it's unreasonable for you to say that it is unreasonable for Kyle to throw his opinion into this thread. "I won�t stand around and bitch about personal responsibility and how it impacts me so much� All I hear from your tirade is me me me!!! Sounds like you have a militant opinion that one should not wheel if they are not fully recovery-independent." Just because Kyle is firm in his opinion that people should be self-sufficient does not necessarily mean that Kyle is about "me me me" as you contend. Here is Kyle fixing a broken rear diff for a fellow wheeler on last year's Moab trip who broke his rear diff on Pritchett: http://www.discoweb.org/moab2001/bighorn/DCP_0517.jpg And here is Kyle welding together a broken shock mount for another of us: http://www.discoweb.org/moab2001/holerh/Image076.jpg The year before in Moab, I believe Kyle replaced two broken rear differentials and also dragged one of the broken-diff vehicles through Pritchett. "Shit, I get so tired of this rant from these so called off-road purists and their almighty attitudes of superiority. Give it a rest man." I think the examples show that Kyle is not about "me me me". He puts out when people are in deep shit and need help instead of saying "I told you so" as you might think. So where are the photos of you helping out your fellow trail buddies? From the way you talk, you must be another Mother Theresa on the trail.   Anonymous Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:23 am:    http://www.discoweb.org/moab2001/bighorn/DCP_0517.jpg Is he wearing clarks wallabes?   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 06:33 am:    buy them both, go large or go home!   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:09 pm:    is that bird shit on his elbow... rd   Smartass Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:16 pm:    And why is he welding a shock mount to that guy's brushbar? ;) I mean, helpfulness is nice, but incompetent help is just a nuisance. ...d&r   Kyle Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:43 pm:    It was a safari gard Shock mount "Smartass" so , its just as effective welded to the brush bar is it is under the truck... Kyle   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:48 pm:    ROTFLMAO... -L   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:05 pm:    haha about the shock mount LMAO...   Dee Cantrell (Disco_Dad) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 02:02 pm:    Dam Kyle, A trail rebuild of a third member. You got my vote. I like doing those in the creature comforts of my garage. A shade tree mechanic thing. Theory on the shock mount, Kyle was cleaning the slag off the rod and the $G bumper seemed like the best place to do it?   Bruce Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 04:41 pm:    Kyle, Took your comment personally, thus my response. We can both read the same passage and still take away different impressions, that is life. If you were not bashing, cool. I will read your threads differntly from now on, just that is how I read it. John, I have a very simple rule. Treat others the same way you want to be treated. So, I help whenever I see problems.