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petern12
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 02:53 am: | 
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'95 D1, 68k, previous owner neglected service - I think I got at least two sets of problems rolled into one here:
1. Loss of power assist intermittently- Especially prone to happen at idle speed. Get the rev up past 1000rpm and power is restored most of the time. Serpentine belt looks fine, not slipping. No loud howling noise from the pump as far as I can tell(haven't done the 3-foot garden hose test yet) Also the first couple turns right after a cold start-up produce grinding noise from the steering column area around the brake tower, sounds like column is rubbing hard against plastic cover, although I don't think that's the case. Question: how do I test the pump?Steering box? Hoses? what about adjusting the steering box's backlash? where do I begin?
2. Shimmy - Steering wheels shakes violently from side to side for a couple of seconds whenever going over bumps on the road, especially diagonal ones. There's excessive play in the steering wheel, truck wanders and requires constant one inch plus steering adjustment to keep rig going straight even on smooth blacktop w/ no crosswind. Alignment appears good as there's no pull and tires have even wear. Questions: what is the logical trouble-shooting sequence? Which are "The Usual Suspects"? What about steering column U-joint & coupling, steering box(please no!), ball joints, suspension bushings, wheel bearings...Thanks - Peter |
petern12
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 12:18 pm: |
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oh, and steering fluid level hasn't dropped, no visible leaks anywhere... |
Shane
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 12:31 pm: |
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Part 2 sound most likely like tie rod ends.
I think LR calls them ball joints.
replace all 4. |
derek (Vortrex)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 01:22 pm: |
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#1 - my '95 with 68k miles has the exact same problem. at times it was near impossible to parallel park with no power steering. I put a new PS pump on last week and it helped, but still doesn't feel as "light" as my D2 did. I also have noise when turning the steering wheel sometimes, but to me it sounds like the plastic cover piece rubbing, not really a "grind".
#2 - mine also seems to have some extra play, but I am not sure whether to call is excessive or not since I have never driven a D1 before this one. |
petern12
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 05:29 pm: |
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Thanks Shane and Derek. I just need to figure out where to start with the diagnosis. Derek, it's normal to have some play in your steering, especially for a truck with big tires, but in my case, it's so much that it actually jerks violently from side to side whenever I run over a washboard. Troubling to hear that your steering still feel heavy after pump replacement. I've heard that a "backlash adjustment" can be performed on the steering box to lighten it, but it supposedly is not a job for a DIY like uts. How much did you pay for your pump and where? Thanks. |
Paul L Schexnayder (Pablo83)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 06:05 pm: |
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I'm experiencing the shimmy problem on my '98. I have been I've done a significant amount of work and have not resolved it yet. I'll email you some info on it. Concerning shimmy, one of the steps in the shop manual says to fit new radius arm bushes using NTC6860. Does anyone know what this means? |
petern12
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 06:32 pm: |
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Thanks Paul, I look forward to the info and perhaps sorting this out together. Paul, NTC6860 is the Radius Arm Bushing. Northeastbritishparts.com has it in stock for $9.95. Link below.
http://www.northeastbritishparts.com/.sc/ms/dd/801510252301518419617325/9/nc/Range%5E20Rover--steering-suspension/5098 |
Ramsay (3toedsloth)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 08:34 pm: |
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Have ya'll tried replacing the steering dampener for the shimmy at high speeds? I think the suggested replacement mileage is 60k? Just a thought. As for the steering, I recently had the box and all the hoses replaced. Steering is still tight, but I like it. Mine used to grind when the fluid was low. Take care.
JR |
petern12
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 09:06 pm: |
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Thanks Ramsay. where did you get the box & hoses and how much? How long did it take you to replace? |
Ramsay (3toedsloth)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 09:28 pm: |
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hahaha. That was my last and final encounter with LR Cary. $800 with installation I think. Later guys!
I'm sure you can find them at either Rovers North or Atlantic British. Or even cheaper elsewhere.
I'm not sure how complicated installation is, hopefully it's rocket science since I paid that kind of flow to have it done. Hope that was of some help.
Bottom line: Dealer=Ouch
JR |
derek (Vortrex)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 01:06 am: |
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peter I got a new PS pump for $315 from discount rovers, dealer wanted $680. not too bad for installation, no special tools needed. |
chris browne
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 03:30 am: |
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Steering shimmy. definitely replace the steering damper. Betya its the original. Don't bother touching anything else until thats done
Heavy steering at park is a common characteristic of d1s, Some have light some not.
Chris Browne
95 d1 |
petern12
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 04:18 am: |
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Derek, thanks for the discount rovers referral. $315 sounds reasonable. Chris, I have replaced the steering damper, and yes the original one was shot. However, just as I'd expected, the problem is more than just damper, as the new one only helps "dampen"/mask the actual problem, not curing it. My front end is still loose as a goose. I still have about 2 inches(!) of free play in the steering wheel and the rig is just all over the road. I have the find the cure before the shimmy destroy the new damper. As for power steering, what I'm experiencing is not just heavy steering, but rather almost total loss of steering boost at idle speed in "D". I'm talking lifting your butt off your seat with both hands yanking at the wheel, sweat beading on your forehead... Feathering the gas pedal to get the rev up past 900rpm restore boost to 80% or so. As there's no leak or crimp in the lines, I fear that it's the $315 pump! Anyone sells rebuilt? |
Chris Browne
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 05:37 am: |
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Pump: Thats really bad! I'd drain and refill PS (ok ATF) fluid use synthetic worth a try as its cheap. Salvage yards might be ok but not from vehs with front end damage. Hopefully newer discos use the same unit.
Shimmy: alignments ok, tire pressure and balence I assume are too? Any damage/excess wear to steering/suspension components? Dont forget rear end! Any sign of replaced components/body panels -wondering about a heavy curbing or wreck
All steering suspension component to chassis mounts tight? Its early to replace bushings. I've got 117k and recognized their wear at 90k. These are cheap and would tighten things up a little. Beyond those cheap fixes its on to checking UJ in steering...which mean $$$.  |
Don
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 09:43 am: |
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problem 1 is a p.s.pump.
problem 2 is i of 2 things or both.check your tie rod ends.have someone move the steering wheel while you look underneath at the tie rod end to see if there is any side to side play.this is very inportant because the tie rod ends will fall apart and leave you with no steering.(land rover calls there tie rod ends ball joints.)
your shimmy over bumps is most likly coming from your front swival preloads.if your preloads are too loose it will shimmy very bad when you hit a bump and continue until you slow down.i dont know if they cover that repair on this site or not.
hope this helps....Don |
derek (Vortrex)
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 02:44 pm: |
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I don't think you will find a rebuilt PS pump anywhere, and I imagine used ones are not much less than $300. |
petern12
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 10:12 pm: |
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1. Boost problem: Chris, I've already tried topping the steering reservoir, then flushing/refill to no avail. You guys confirmed my worst fear: pump heading south. $315 it is. Thanks.
2. Shimmy: on-going investigation. Chris, my alignment is fine, wheels straight, tires balanced with even wear. Truck never in accident, previous owner never taken it off-road or even in the snow(for shame!), truck basking in Frisco all its mall-crawling life. Everything is original. I too think it's early for bushing failure but I'm just hoping... Ron, the Radius Arm and the Tie Rod End are probably next on my list. I'm not sure I'm following you on the front swivel preloads...Thanks guys. |
Don
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 11:22 am: |
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the front swival preload is the pressure set on the bearings of the swival balls.they are located inside the swival ball and is adjusted by removing shims from the top of the ball mounts(this is where the abs sensor goes through).they are sometimes set wrong at the factory so veh history may mean nothing.it is very common with any land rover with swival bals.the steering stabalizer will help this condition but not fix it.you can check all the other stuff but until you set the bearing preloads it will still be there. Don |
petern12
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 12:44 pm: |
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Don, sounds like you're on to something. I wonder if this could also be why my ABS light has been on 90% of the time and the abs has been Waaaayyy too sensitive to where I had to disconnect it for now. Perhaps this will give me a chance to kill two birds with one stone by cleaning and "reseating" the sensors in the process. Thanks! |
brian friend
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 11:40 am: |
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Uh Oh...... the backlash setting that should not be done by a diy person...well I did it. I am imbarrased to say that I got under there and jst started arbitralily tightning bolts. Now my sterring is so stiff that it squeeks and I have to turn the steering wheel back after a corner. In a parking lot I can turn the wheel all the way in either direction, let go of it and I could go in circles for hours. Since if messed it up myself, does anyone have any advice on how I can fix it myself? |
derek (Vortrex)
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:12 pm: |
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how did you adjust the backlash? this kind of sounds like my truck at times, need to turn the wheel back to center after rounding a corner. |
brian friend
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:28 pm: |
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Derek,
I'm not sure exactly what I did but I will get uder there tonight to see if I can figure it out and I will let you know.
brian friend |
Don
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 07:14 pm: |
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if you take too many shims out or leave all of them out it will be very hard to turn.land rover wants you to measure the foot pounds with a fishing scale.i dont like that method,i do my adjustments by my own feel.and yes if you have never done it before it could give you alot of problems,but there is a world of difference when it is done..........as to the abs,if the air gap is too large the abs will be very sensitive. |
brian friend
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 07:36 pm: |
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Don,
I didn't do anything with shims. I just tightened some bolts. could this have caused my problem?
brian friend |
petern12
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 08:57 pm: |
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Brian, you might want to give the dealer or LR specialized shop and get a quote on backlash adjustment/tuning. As mentioned, the shop manual said it is not for the DIY. I'd also placed a call to roverconnection and the guy was helpful on various questions I had about the D1's steering system, but he simply said:" Don't even go there, leave it to LR" when I asked about adjustment to the steering box/backlash. This may be one of those painful instances where we'll just have to cough it up to the dealer... |
Don
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 07:39 pm: |
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brian friend
the only thing i can think of doing that type of problem is if you tightened the steering box adjustment.located on top of the steering box.there is nothing else external to adjust. |
brian friend
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 12:40 pm: |
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Don & petern,
Thanks for the info. It turned out to be my steering stablizer was toast.
brian friend |
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