K&N Filters, Junk or Not

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Author Message   JMcD Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 08:44 pm:    OK, I have had two K&N's in other rigs and never had a problem, am pondering one for my 96 Disco. But I have heard some negative comments on another board before the almighty DWEB was back up and now I am wondering. Any opinions, good or Junk? Thanks, JMcD   Neal Glessner (Nealg) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:22 pm:    Man I've seen a few guys make negative comments about K&Ns and I wonder if they really have them. My father is a hot rodder- he held the g-stock national drag racing record for a long time and has been featured in many hot-rod type magazines. (i'm not trying to brag about my Dad) My point is he knows a lot about engine performance. He has K&N filters on all his cars. It's probably because he has access to a dyno and can actually measure the results. K&N are designed to be cleaned and re-used. Buy 3 disposable filters and you have spent as much for a K&N. Even if you don't believe that there's a performance gain, you can save money. And YES I have one on my diso- I've had it for almost 5 years.   Leslie N. Bright (Leslie) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:34 pm:    K&N is made for the race-track. It allows the engine to breathe easier by not being as tight as a paper filter, but then is oiled so that some of the particles will stick as they pass. Yes, it's cleanable, re-oil it and use it over and over. Problem though, is that it can't filter as well as a paper filter. On a race-track, it doesn't matter... you clean it before every race, and it'll be fine. On the street, it's okay, if you keep up with it. But, that doesn't mean cleaning it daily... they do better if they go for a bit between cleanings. For a 4x4, at first it sounds great, a racing-application air filter, that's reusable. But, when you're flying down dusty roads, you're going to be ingesting a lot more dirty air. Fine materials are going to get past the filter and ingested in your engine. Not good. Somewhere on the net there's a page about a bunch of Rovers in Africa that killed their engines because they were using K&N filters.... wasn't pretty. Some people will use a K&N as their daily filter. Yes, it'll help the engine breathe better (maybe noticably, maybe not noticably). Then, before you leave the blacktop, change to a paper filter for better protection. Just a suggestion, if you're going to go to a K&N.... Mi dos centavos, FWIW... -L   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 10:30 pm:    I had one in my Disco for a while. One day the check engine light came on, and since I was still under warranty, I took the Disco to my dealer. Bad MAF, changed under warranty. 9 months later, same thing. New MAF under warranty again. Since then, I have been running regular paper filters, and have gone for several years without any issues. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing, but I am not going to install another K&N.   Milan Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:02 pm:    Have one on my TJ and when I take the air intake tube to check the condition of the throttle body, it's filled with dust. I just put a foam filter arounf the K&N to see if I can stop that but I suspect I will be switching to factory paper filter soon. I will not put one in my Disco. My $0.02 CDN (about 0.000037 of any currency)   Sterling Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:02 pm:    thanks Alex, I have been trying to decide if I wanted to go to the K&N on my 95 Disco or stick with paper, you and Leslie make very good points and I'm staying with paper filters. thanks   Milan Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:04 pm:    P.S. I'd like to see what I gained for hp by using K&N. I'm willing to bet zilch or less. I can't feel anything. But it is nice not having to buy a new filter when it needs maintenance.   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:15 pm:    About 4 months ago after our 15K service, the service manager pulled me aside and told me privately that they had just recieved a service bulletin telling them they could decline warranty work on the MAF sensor if a K&N filter was in place. Seems that oil from the KN fouls that sensor. I took mine off the next day. I appreciated his frankness.   JMcD Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 08:10 am:    Yeah Michael, I have heard that same theory as well, That the oil used to coat the filter gets sucked in to the 'hot' wire used to measure mass air flow and somehow burns it out. Even though I am no rocket scientist,that sounds pretty plausible to me. The K&N's I have had have been on small block chevys(one an '85 p/up, the other my Tige Ski boat), BOTH with Carbs, no fuel injection sensors to foul up. The boat was never near any dust, but the truck was off road alot, and I never noticed any dust or dirt in the motor.. Just the same, I think I will stick to the paper filter, better safe than sorry Thanks for all the responses..JMcD   David Morin Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 08:32 am:    Most of the "big HP gains" you see with just a drop-in K&N are compared to a DIRTY paper filter. Paper filters are so cheap, that I would just as soon change them as needed and never worry about oiling my K&N wrong, or too much , or not enough. Used as part of a total intake package, it will net you more HP but I think the advantages of just a drop-in are negligeble. Just my opinion. :-)   muskyman Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 09:45 am:    the big gains are from less restriction and better diffusion of the air...not better filtering but even k&n has agreed with the problem with hot wire mass air meters. the have eliminated a number of those aplications over the years K&N is really a race filter and discos are not race trucks. how many OEM K&N filters do you see?....if they where what they say AMG,Alpina,rentech,and all the other super high performance builders would be using them. change the paper often and you will do just fine   DonC Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 10:08 am:    OK.. Stupid ??? I know, but how do you know when the mass air flow sensor is going bad. Rough idle or just won't run anymore.   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 01:06 pm:    Check engine light comes on when the MAF goes. Car still runs, but not as efficient.   DonC Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 01:32 pm:    Ok I was just wondering. I am running a KN filter now (debating if it should go or not) I reoiled it last Thursday and then drove about 500 miles over the weekend with no problems. The other day the temp here in texas dropped into the teens and then my check engine light came on. I dont think it is my MAS since I was able to do the distance with no problems, but I want to make sure. I know I had a bad spark plug wire which I am changing tonight but would that cause the light to go off? The disco is running fine with just a slight miss on the idle after it has run for a bit. Honestly I think I am have problems with the wire itself (dry rotten in the core) but I want to make sure. Thanks again for the input! Don 96SE7   gp (Garrett) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 03:25 pm:    a bad wire could throw the light. did to me once. then i went out and got me some of them there magenors.   DonC Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 03:41 pm:    Thanks Garrett... Doing a temp fix to it now until I can get some better ones. Don   peter Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 02:43 am:    Have tried K N fillter here in U.K on my dico V8 which is on lpg gas and it runs badly on a K N and runs mush better on standard filter just change fillter every 3 mounths.   Ed M. Beaux Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 06:07 am:    Ding! The light just came on. (Not the check engine light, the little cartoon light bulb over my head). I installed a KN filter a while back, and since then I've had the MAF go bad. Dealer replaced it under warranty, but I bet they wouldn't keep doing that. And I've been kind of thinking about dust running off road. Hmm, that paper filter I took out was nearly new, now where did I put it......   Horness Spencer (Horness) Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:21 am:    I fitted a K&N on my 98 Tdi. There was a small amount of performance increase, however this increase led to a heavier right foot (you feel there are more horses under your bonnet, and you want to use them!), and my MPG came back to normal. Not had any problems since fitting the filter, but temperatures here in the UK, and the type of off-road I do are completely different.   steveII Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 12:34 pm:    i'm in total agreement with mr bright. i recently reinstalled my kn as my paper element was FILTHY from repeated truck havens. there was in increased sense of peppyness in the disco - driving the same as i would with the paper filter and the fuel economy around town is down significantly. IMHO the gems equipped NAS motors are tuned very finely to the air flow developed with a paper filter. changing anything with the flow rate causes the mas sensor to direct more fuel into the system as there is more air coming in..... SO in conclusion - i am running the kn for the street for now, but will buy two new filters at the dealership next time i'm out - one as a street filter - one for the trail. the k&n will go back into the emergency parts bin. steveII 99 d1 sd7   jas Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 05:25 am:    ok....sounds like the most likely thing to do is get rid of the K&N and put factory back on before it damages the airflow sensor. how can u tell if ur sensor goes out. what are the symptoms.   Roger Fastring Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 08:17 pm:    Whatever. I am new to LRs, only had mine since DEC, but put a K&N in it as a 1st thing, along with my usual "just bought a used car and change all fluids, filters, etc" procedure. I have them in all the cars and have never had a dust nor MAF fault from them, for several cars/trucks/SUVs. Can see the possibility, but if its properly oiled, it shouldnt be an issue. Colder and more air is just a good thing and I am not a scientist, but the thing seems to filter great. Every 10k or 20k, take it out, clean it, re-oil it and they are fine. Had at least 4 of them on new cars at birth to over 140k+ w/o an issue. Never had to buy a filter after that first replacement, good deal, a little better performance, zero waste. Just my 1/50th of a Euro... 95 D1 3.9   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 09:02 pm:    I installed a K&N 10000 ago along w/triple platinum plugs. MPG went from 13 to 15, better acceleration & runs great on my 96 DISCO 4.0 w/71000. After reading the former notes I do wonder but I have 2 other fuel injected vehicles w/K&N. My 93 Volvo 245 4cyl went from 20 to 25 mpg. My 94 Chev 3500 4x4 dually w/454 went up 1 more MPG but the acceleration was much better & my 25ft. 5th. wheel trailer goes up the hill better without losing speed or RPMs. I live on Oregon coast but travel alot.   JRoc Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 09:32 pm:    I also got my '95 Disco and immediately changed the fluids and plugs and all. I also installed a k&n air filter. I DID notice a improvement in pick-up! Is my Disco a race car??? Not by any means! But I like being able to keep up with people riding bikes!!! But I will replace the k&n with the paper filter, the next time I go out to Africa or Australia. But seriously, I'd like to hear more about damaging the Mass Air Sensor with a K&N. Are Disco 1 & 2's equally succeptable to this? I'm sure the dealer would LOVE to deny fixing anything if they could! So that's not doing it for me. If you alter the vehicle in any way they can claim that it does negative things to it. True? Fair? Maybe not, but now you've got to prove them wrong and most people aren't going to go through that! I had a friend be told that if he put a aftermarket alarm in his honda it would void the warranty! They then went and hired a aftermarket alarm guy to install a cheap alarm, which they charged him a fortune for! Fair? Hell no! Try proving he said that! Some dealerships are unscrupulous! Hopefully one doesn't buy vehicles from these places! Good Luck   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 09:42 pm:    Do what you wish, at your own risk. I have had 2 MAF's go bad while running the K&N. I can see one going, but two in a row is too much of a coincidence for me. The savings in not having to buy paper filters is not worth it to me when you weigh it against the cost of a new MAF. And yes, the K&N was cleaned and oiled as per the manufacturers instructions.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 10:21 pm:    I am new to Land Rovers, but I've had a KN on it for 30k miles and its absolutely fine...The oil getting sucked in to the MAF sounds something the dealer would definetly say...But yeah if you go into the desert paper would probably be the way to go....   runner Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 10:07 am:    With my K&N I hear a wistle type hum, like a low pitch wistle. would that be more air giong in or not enough? I havn't had any probs but.. just wondering if anyone else noticed this. Mike J.mudd   Milan Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 12:30 pm:    I wonder if the mileage/performance gains some of the people measured/flet were due to the filter or more due to the wire/plugs changes. I also think K&N is just fine for the city, unless you live in the desert. I like the idea of 2 filetrs. 1 for off-road only and 1 for the street. This way you keep your street filter cleaner longer. And who cares how dirty the off-road one is, as long as it lets some air through.   JMcD Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 01:17 pm:    Once your rig is out of warranty you tend to see things in a different light.. Instead of worrying about if the dealer will replace that MAF without giving you a hassle, you think, " It may not burn out the MAF wire, but if it does, is it worth it? If axel went thru 2 MAF's with a K&N, should I give it a shot anyway?"" When I ask the question like that, the answer is pretty clear to me....JMcD   Chu Son Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 06:45 pm:    I've been having a string of SES lights recently so checked out my K&N. Sure enough, it looks like I had some air coming in through the sides of the filter. I re-adjusted the filter to seat a little tighter, but I had quite a bit of dirt on the inside of the filter around the edges. I've used them on most of my small cars, but with all the exposure to dirt I get in the Rover, I think I'm going back to factory paper. chu   Grady Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 10:44 pm:    To see if a K&N gives you more power, couldn't you just run around the block with no air filter element to see if a less restictive flow gave you more power?