| Author |
Message |
    
Brad Bradford (Brad)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 01:35 pm: | 
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I am in the market for some offset Radius arms, but i want to know what some of you guys think of the Rovertym Radius arms. Are they strong? I heard that if you heat up the stock radius arms it actually makes them weaker. Let me know |
John Kruger (Johnnyk)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 01:47 pm: |
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They are great. I hate to admit it, but I have used them to slide over obstacles.
John
Expedition Outfitters, LLC. |
alhang
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 02:56 pm: |
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Brad, they are cut and then boxed on all sides unlike some shops which just bend the arm after heating it. The end product is a much heavier and stronger arm and you also have the option of getting the arms lengthened or shortened to suit your lift needs. BTW John is offering a new castor correction service for the swivels which you might be interested in. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:14 pm: |
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Al mentions that Castor correction because using the arms to correct castor will fix your castor and leave you with vibes as it pushes the pinion back down.
Kyle |
John Graham (John)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:18 pm: |
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Kyle, Does this mean a Double Carden Driveshaft on the front, will fix the vibes ?
John |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:19 pm: |
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maybe, maybe not. Depends on the angle of the pinion. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 03:36 pm: |
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Well , from what I have seen of the corrected arms and no other mods. The DC shaft is actually worse. For the DC shaft to work properly it has to be pointing straight at the T case. There should be a slight variation to keep the bearings turning but that about it. When you correct the arms you push the pinion back down and out of the proper range of a DC shaft working properly. Thats why its better to correct your castor issues with the ball mod... Its a sweet mod...
Kyle |
Brad Bradford (Brad)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 04:22 pm: |
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I have a DC shaft and there are no vibes. My reason for asking is that the bushings on the frame end are almost maxed out. I was thinking of the radius arms to correct the bushing issue. But i guess what you guys are saying is that if I use the radius arms, it will screw up the drive angle again. Is that right? Another thing that i thought of is, will the radius arms inhibit uptravel? I didn't really think of it at first, but i think with the angle of the arm itself would cause you to loose uptravel.
Brad |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 04:26 pm: |
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Well they can be offset so that they arent intended to correct castor but rather just fix the bushing bind. If you are getting them I would stress that...
Kyle |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 04:28 pm: |
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Kyle:
There was a discussion on the POR board about an aussie company that was slotting the mounting holes on the swivel ball mounting flange so that one could adjust the caster independently of the pinion angle. The exact amount eludes me right now, but I believe that one could get several degrees of adjustment from this mod.
The person commenting about it did state that the odd number of bolts and the closer spacing of those on the bottom were the limiting factors.
Might be a lot of work and $ to solve a problem we created in the first place, but it's bound to be a lot cheaper than chopping off the swivel mounting flanges and rewelding them where they are supposed to be as I read about many doing with Jeeps and the like to regain steering geometry. Although, that process would allow for correction of the pinion angle and caster, but again, lots of work for a self-induced problem.
Paul |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 04:34 pm: |
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John is correcting the balls now..
Kyle |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 07:30 pm: |
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I have the Castor Corrected Radius arms with a Double-Cardon front Drive shaft and RT 3" lift. No vibes whatsoever. Pinion points perfectly. Hmmmm...maybe my castor isn't "corrected" as much as it should be?
Aside from that, I can really vouch for the strength, I have been resting the whole front end on these things more than once with no issues. Wouldn't trade them for any other brand.
Tom |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 08:00 pm: |
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whose cv shaft Tom? |
Dee
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
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Just checked his Castor Correction, Excellent approach looks good John... |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 08:42 pm: |
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Tom Woods, check the tech section:
http://www.discoweb.org/shafts/tomwdriveshaft.html
Tom |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 08:59 pm: |
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Well its very obvious Tom that they are not corrected completely . If they were you would obviously have Vibrations. The principle is quite simple....If they were corrected back to spec castor with the lift you are running then the pinion would be out of range for a DC shaft to work. Its as simple as that... Have you had your castor Checked? You had some other steering issues on the truck and you are running tractor tires. Thats kinda like perrone saying he has no vibes when he obviously had some of the worst cupping on his tires I have ever seen.... Makes me wonder..
Kyle |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 09:06 pm: |
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If you need perfect alignment for a DC shaft, then what is the advantage of switching to one. I though that's what they were for!?!? Or is it only for a sharp angle at the t-case end? |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 09:39 pm: |
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Well , with a standard shaft you need a certain alignment of both. With the DC shaft its realy just the one end that needs to be aligned a certain way...This thread should get hot tomorrow....lol
Kyle |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 09:44 pm: |
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Oh, OK. I've heard of Jeeps lowering the tcase when lifting to help with the shaft angle. Anyone do that wiht LRs? And wouldn't that just make the angle on the front shaft even worse? |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 09:46 pm: |
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Its really a moot point Niall. You can get your arms modified to relieve the bushing bind and get the castor fixed with the ball correction... All will be well...
Kyle |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:06 pm: |
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Probably right on the castor correction not being where it maybe should be, Kyle. However, my steering issues are related to bending the hell out of the stock rods. Other than that, no bump steer or steering issues.
Folks, don't think that a Double-Cardon (CV) shaft just fixes vibes, it just changes the way you need to angle your pinions. A Double-Double-Cardon is another story. For about $100 more, you get to not give a shit where your pinions point (or so I am told). I wish I went that route.
Tom |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 07:18 am: |
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Tom:
Kyle has commented that one should avoid the DDC driveshaft for fear of overloading the pinion bearings with excessive rotating mass. Is it Tom Woods who makes the DDC shafts for $100 more?
Paul |
Brad Bradford (Brad)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 09:15 am: |
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Ok, back to my main question. When i finished my lift, my bushings were binding, and my front springs have a sort of "C" shape to them. The reason for this is because my Radius arms are keeping the pinion angle right which means that I probably don't have any more front drop. IF I do correct the radius arm problem and have reworked and lengthened, then my pinion angle will be screwed up. The only way that I see to correct both pinion and binding of the bushings is to cut the radius arm mounts and the spring perch and rotate the axle and reweld. That way everthing will be right (i think) My reason for asking the question is to find out a way to fix it without doing all that mess. Thanks for all the other info.
Brad |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
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no way around the mess if you want to make it all right.
another popular methode is go back to stock arms, use the dc drive shaft and an a TT diff to make the truck track like it is supposed to
rd |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 10:20 am: |
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Yes and No brad. No , you are not going to get the right geometry back at the housing in the front (Springs , pinion angle , etc etc) unless you get pretty creative. BUT , I think you can get fairly close with the arms being done a little and the castor being corrected by the balls themselves instead of the whole housing rotating which causes a mess... Bottom line is that its not gonna be easy or cheap either way if you want to get the thing "Right" again.....
Kyle |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:20 pm: |
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Paul - I think so, but don't quote me on it. I paid about $425 shipped for my front shaft, I think Woods is in the 500's for the double-double.
I also think the overloading theory sounds like it holds water. The double-double shaft is going to be much beefier than stock, so the weight on the bearings increases. I guess the trade-off is changing the bearings more often.
Tom |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:34 pm: |
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Tom, you've got TW's CV front and it looks like you've got his CV rear too (just read a-arm extension tech article). How's it all working? Balance OK? Any issues with that beefy front shaft rubbing the crossmember? Been talking to TW about rear CV to upgrade from stock roto setup. Then, of course, the front will have to follow... Thanks.
P.S. Nice tech article - really dig Aedo's "whipped up"  brake line mount. |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:09 pm: |
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Tom, $640 for a Double Double front or rear and free shipping. Also, they weigh just as much if not less then the GBR DC shafts. I think mostly is due to the difference in adapter weight. |
alhang
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:15 pm: |
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if you already have an adapter you might be able to save a lot of money by buying local. 640 seems steep, a local shop in Richmond, VA charges between 250-300 for a single DC shaft(guessing maybe 100 extra for another DC added on). They just couldn't make the adapters for me. Check with the local guys, you may be surprised. |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:19 pm: |
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I didn't mind paying the $1280... Much cheaper then what I ended up paying for the last ones that I had. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:28 pm: |
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Eric , no way is it lighter man. If its a double cardan shaft its got adapters on both ends!! Even witout the adapters it weighs much more then just a single joint at the pinion. The pinions screw up if you sneeze on them as it is....
Kyle |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:42 pm: |
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GBR is a steel adapter. Woods is alum. and light as hell.. The Woods shaft weighs a little more then the GBR shaft but, not once you get that heavy ass steel adapter on it. The woods adapters are very very light. It equals out to about the same. I'd weigh them for you but, I don't want to take them off the truck to do it. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:48 pm: |
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You aint following. No matter how light it is , its still a shit load heavier at the pinion then it started out. And in stock form the pinions are a freking endless nightmare. Now , perhaps if its nice and smooth that will stop the pinion issues.....
Kyle |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:00 pm: |
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True, you are talking about rotational mass at the pinion and I was talking actual weight. Good point. But, it is much smoother then the milkshake makers I was running before. Though I'm kinda screwed at the moment as I think that I need to mess up the angles a little bit so that the shafts work better. I had the front and rear almost right for the single DC. So let me ask this. If you run a Double Double you would want your diff angle off wouldn't you so that it uses the rollers on the t-case and diff end? That's right isn't it? Wouldn't it still vibe a little it the angle at the diff was good for a normal joint. My question make sense? |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:11 pm: |
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You want them off , yes . The straighter they are the more the trunions will get scared from the rollers not moving...
Kyle |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:15 pm: |
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that's what I though. Back is easy to do but, the front, well that's a different story. Guess when I get that bumper and winch on the front it should mess the angles up enough.. I hope. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:16 pm: |
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Yeah , that will change things a bit. Is the truck vibe free now ? I mean , Completely ?
Kyle |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:20 pm: |
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nope.. I still have a hint of it. Could be some thing else causing it though. You can barely feel it but, you can see the rear view mirror shaking at certain speeds. Much better then it was before. Much much better. I'm going to put a spacer in my rear links tomorrow and see what happens. |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:28 pm: |
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Blue- Both are Tom Woods CV shafts and everything is buttery smooth (knock on wood).
No problems at all with the crossmember with my lift (about 3"). However, there were problems with the front sway bar. This has the resolution of what was "whipped up" (mount extensions) for that issue.
http://www.discoweb.org/disconnects/index.htm |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:34 pm: |
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lol , SORRY , but I just aint buying buttery smooth...lol I have seen way too many "Buttery smooth" trucks that Vibrate their asses off... I am beginning to think there is no end to it... If Eric here has double double then he has the absolute best shot at attaining "Buttery Smooth" status and he is saying he still have that bass sounding crap.....
Kyle |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:38 pm: |
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I don't know about the bass sound. I haven't gotten it up to 80 yet since I put the shafts on. I'll see if I can do it on the way home and let you know. It aint buttery smooth though. It wasn't buttery smooth stock either. I don't think there is such a thing as a buttery smooth Disco. I think it's a myth. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:50 pm: |
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when I drop the rear shaft on mine, it's goddamn margarine |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 03:56 pm: |
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believe it or not, it is smooth and vibe free from a driveshaft perspective. let's see what happens after a few long trips with the new extension on...
tom |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 04:07 pm: |
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Well , just to screw things up worse. The smoothest truck we own is the Slinky and its got bone stock shafts and radius arms as well as Hmmm , about 4" ? of lift... Now this bitch is buttery smooth , ACCEPT , when you go up a hill or something and the roboflexer starts to distort under load and then it all gos to shit...
Kyle |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 04:16 pm: |
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must have been the accident bent some thing in your favor |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 06:50 pm: |
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Well, I couldn't get up tp 80.. Too much traffic. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 06:59 pm: |
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4" on slinky? naa, man 3" max |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 07:58 pm: |
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 |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
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Rob take my word for it. It's atleast 4". Its got the 3" springs on the front that John sells and ,,,,hmmm , how shall I put this ? Well , it seems the lower spring perches swelled a little from sitting in the hot sun.....
Kyle |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 08:06 pm: |
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kyle, it's a slinky thing.
i've had it even taller than 4". and it was REAL butter. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 08:11 pm: |
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All I can say is the poor bastard is still carrying the mail after all the trauma. Its my main ride while mine is prepared...... Poor Slinky , cant catch a break.
Kyle |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 09:06 pm: |
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That truck is like buttah!!! |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 09:49 am: |
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LOL! I really wish I would not have brought up butter! |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
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LOL !! damn, thats the best.
kyle, i know what you mean. sometimes i think your ego was left out in the sun to swell too
so your truck is in preperation, eh? i thought it was ret-ta-go at anytime to anyplace..
thought so.
rd |
Kyle
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 10:27 am: |
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WEll by god it is. But one can never have enough of the extra special stuff...
Kyle |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 11:40 am: |
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you going up to Canada again Kyle? |
Kyle
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 11:47 am: |
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Naaaaa , not this time anyway. A little later in the year we are supposed to do Canada again...
Kyle |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
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ah,, extra extra special sauce.
rd |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 12:13 pm: |
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I leave the 31st.. I'll let you know how much fun crossing the border is when I get back. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 12:35 pm: |
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Yeah , I bet there is a litte fun these days..
Kyle |
niall forbes (Forbesn)
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 03:48 pm: |
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I was down in Maine in February and it wasn't too much trouble. They looked through all of our bags though and seemed to be doing that to every car. I've heard from some people who've had big problems though. Usually after getting a customs official witha serious attitude. |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 04:35 pm: |
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I think leaving the US should be OK. The Canadians don't ussually mess with ya. However, getting back in will be some real fun. Specaily if they keep a tag log from last year. Since I crossed the border into the US from Canada last Sept 9th.. |
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