Another new rear bumper in town

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Author Message   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 11:12 am:    Finally got some spy photos of my new rear bumper yesterday. Pretty much done, just needs to be bolted on. for a bunch of pics go here: http://tompearson.net/bumperslider/bumper_pics.htm Tom   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 11:34 am:    I'm likin' that alot......very clean looking. do you mind sharing on or off list - how much $$? Thanks, Bill   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 11:39 am:    no problem.... $850 w/out lights, price includes bumper, hitch, big skid plate that you can see in the pictures in link (not on the truck in the pic posted above). Another $50 for the lights. diamond plate is optional... Tom   Kyle Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 11:45 am:    Whats up with the tractor trailer lights ? Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 11:47 am:    nothing. if you don't like 'em, get a bumper w/out them and don't pay for them. simple. i like them. Tom   Kyle Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 11:48 am:    Whats up with the tractor trailer lights ? Kyle   Kyle Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 11:49 am:    lol,,,I got a little excited there.... Kyle   mateu Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:02 pm:    Very cool, Tom. Love it. You should really be a rep for Aedofab.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:08 pm:    tried that angle . unfortunately, i gotta pay just like everybody else. i am just happy with the shit they do for me. tom   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:12 pm:    Tom, Is the bumper portion bolt on or weld on? Were the frame rails cut/modified in anyway? Bill   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 12:21 pm:    the bumper is 100% bolt on, and the frame was not modified. however, the stock hitch was cut off, as well as the bottom of the fenders. tom   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:02 pm:    Looks good although I am not a fan of checker plate...   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:05 pm:    that's why it is optional...just ask for a plain one. tom   Phillip Perkinson (R0ver4x4) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:06 pm:    I know...   Chris S. Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:08 pm:    Tom, what about those frame mounted DII sliders? Are those for sale? I would assume those would be more durable than the sill mounted sliders. Please fill me in. Chris   Dean Brown (Deanbrown3d) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:14 pm:    Where does the exhaust go? Does it get butchered?   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 01:16 pm:    Yeah, those are. He just made those for Alen Babayan. Alan's DII has been there for a couple weeks now getting sliders/bumpers/etc made up. Those are what is done first. Luckily, they have been more focused on getting mine done, so it was first. He he. I don't know the price on the sliders, I can find out. I think it was around $400, but don't quote me! Tom   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 02:32 pm:    I cut the rear resonator off. Will just re-do the pipe to turn down, but it won't come out under the bumper, that would defeat the purpose. Tom   Disco_Dad Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 08:00 pm:    RVR OVR, That is great looking bumber can the light area be made to fit the current bumper lights? And for inquiring minds how many bolt points does the new Bumper and reciver use to tie into the frame?   JCC Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 08:58 pm:    Is AEDO FAB gonna make these as a production Item or will it have to be custom work each time?....Meaning.....Could they make more bumpers and ship without having to have my truck there or should I just show the pics to my Local fab shop and see if they can make something similar seeing that I am in NC! Justin   JRoc Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 09:11 pm:    I think Mr. Cantrell asked the question I wanted to ask. Can the bumper be modified to intall the bumper lights/directionals? I like the design alot but would like to keep my original lights in tact. Great looking bumper though! About time someone made a decent replacement for this POS that is standard equip. I really like the fact that he removed the rear reciever hitch and put one in the bumper. Much better clearance!   M. K. Watson (Lrover94) Posted on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 09:53 pm:    hey i likes that!   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 12:25 am:    Disco Dad & JRoc: As far as the current bumper lights, I think 2 questions were asked: Q. can the stock lights me mounted in a stock -like position on the bumper? A. no, i don't think so, as there is "support stuff" inside the bumper. in my opinion, designs where the stock lights go in the same place are just not a good idea. sure it "looks stock", but also has all the problems of stock - you'll knock the lights out!!! my rear bumper lights were bashed out even when the bumper was in perfect shape from backing into mud which wasn't strong enough to hurt the bumper, but did kill the plastic lights. Q. can the stock lights fit up where the round rounds are? I don't think there is enough room up there either depth wise or width wise, but i am not sure. i'll take a look when i head back to the shop tomorrow. i'll also ask about the pheasibility of doing that.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 12:26 am:    DD - Bolt mounts - I think there are at least 8 bolts holding on the bumper, then skid plate bolts to that and bolts to more stuff. i'll clarify tomorrow and post.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 12:28 am:    JCC - yes, he is going to make these to ship and sell to anyone, like the rest of the stuff he makes. he does stuff for jeeps, so he is putting together his rover product line. if you wanted something, he probably couldn't ship the same day, but could build and ship for you. tom   Jeff Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 12:37 am:    Tom Sounds like you need to post AeroFab's (?) contact info. Thanks Jeff   Disco_Dad Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 02:13 am:    Thanks for the info Tom , it looks great i guess the round light are or could be a nice touch   Kyle Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 09:44 am:    Sounds about right. 3 in each wheel house and two at the rear in the stock points.. Kyle   JRoc Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 11:09 am:    Thanx Tom, I kinda figured as much. I was hoping that someone would build a bumper kinda like a cross between the $afari Guard and the stock. I think that if someone would build the lights into the rear bumper, as opposed to on top of, they wouldn't be so succeptable to popping out. Also it'd be nice if the design also included a guard for the rear lights. I'd appreciate if you could, when you have a chance, inquire about these things. Aedo seems to build very structurally sound stuff, and his opinion would be very valued. I'd also like to add that I DO like the design of this bumper alot! You know the saying, "you can't please everyone". But with this design he's definately going to please MOST!!! Thanx again Tom, and again, whenever you get a chance, no rush.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 01:29 pm:    Kyle - There are more bolts than that. I think there is 6 across the back, and then two to the frame where the tie down loops go for the side pole supports you see in the pics. It doesn't bolt up to the mud-guard support thing that is in the wheel well, that is removed for putting on the bumper. There are no bolts to the body, just the frame. JRoc - I hear what you are saying, and I will pass the info along as feedback. Or, you can email him yourself at [email protected] to discuss it. I am betting he will talk you out of the idea of lights in that location. Tom   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 01:30 pm:    Jeff - It is AedoFab. There is a web site http://www.aedofab.com, but there is really nothing on it but pictures of a cherokee and an email address. Email is [email protected]. Tom   Moe (Moe) Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 10:58 am:    Tom, sturdy looking bumper and a fair price I particularly like that side brace on the quarter panel protection. The only change I would make is a couple of recovery points in addition to the hitch. After you removed the the mud guard braces in the wheel well, did you recut to fit, replce with something else, or just leave bare?   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 12:16 pm:    Moe - The strongest place to recover your Disco is the rear hitch. The absence of of extra rear recovery points is by design. JRoc - Asked again about the lights in the bumper. If somebody wanted one with holes for the stock lights, he would be fine with accomidating them if they understand the consequences of potentially bashing them out. He is flexible as long as the customer understands the implications and can accomidate reasonable requests. Also, somebody asked about other hi-lift placement opportunities than the rear hitch. there are two little grooves about 1 foot in each direction from the hitch to serve as points for the tip of the hi-lift. Tom   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 01:48 pm:    Moe ? "A fair Price" ?? 850 is a still out there... Kyle   Moe (Moe) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 01:55 pm:    Yes but that includes a skid plate and a reciever hitch. $1000 gets you close if are considering SG or Trek but you will have to pay a lot more if you want a hitch and skid plate So I should say the price is fairer compared to what is out there, but it ain't cheap!   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:00 pm:    are you kidding kyle? $850 is not the price for the bumper alone. bumper, skid, tow hitch all in one. compare the aedo bumper to everything else out there right now. most skids are $300 everywhere you go. so, you are getting a custom rear bumper with a better clearance for $550. $850 gets you the goodies. an equally optioned $G bumper is $1674, trek outfitters is $1350 (stock hitch, though). rockware and TJM may be in the ballpark, but I think the TJM and aedo bumper are kind of an apples and oranges thing. moe- you can definately go cheaper if you build it yourself, but even garret's was getting up near $500, i think. tom   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:17 pm:    yeah i paid $490 installed and out the door. not fancy or competetive to some of the others out there. but paying $300 for a skid plate......you would have to be on crack to pay that. hell have a local fab guy make one up for $100 easy. that is what i am doing next. my bumper is on the very basic side of them. no 1/4 panel protection yet, but pretty beefy on the back end. don't have to worry so much about dragging my ass and seeing how many endcaps came off or if my tail lights are still in there. and no more smiling bumpers either. least i hope so. time will tell as with anything else. i just can't see paying tons of $ for something that is meant for a trail and to get beat on. i just want to put something back there and not worry about it. at the same time driving with some diligence.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:25 pm:    Is it powder coated or Painted Tom ? Yeah , 850 is still to high and dont give me the shit about how high everyone else is. Just because they are smoking some crack doesnt mean that everyone else needs to hit the pipe as well.. Thats the biggest cop out in the Rover world.... "Its still cheaper then brand X" Kyle   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:27 pm:    Oh and by the way , what do you mean "You are gettinga hitch" you already had a freaking hitch. Its probably one of the only things that doesnt break on a Rover and you cut the damn thing off to replace with a hitch that isnt as good... Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:15 pm:    garrett - hope you didn't think i was commenting negatively on your bumper. i think it looks damn good and you have the pride of having a self built bumper back there doing the job. tom   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:24 pm:    Kyle - Powdercoated. Also, you know this stuff is hard and time consuming to design and build. Standing alone and not comparing to other products, I think the price is good. I wouldn't buy it otherwise. As far as the hitch goes, I wanted more clearance to minimize the scrape, and it does that just fine. Who is to say it isn't as good as the stock hitch? I'll be on the lookout for your front bumper, as the price will only be the cost of materials and not the cost of your skill and design or assembly effort. Should be a helluva deal. Tom   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:29 pm:    Well yes Tom , when I start to sell it it will be under the cost of that. Also , how about if you wanna do some real towing ? You gonna have a drop reciever that drops it like 2' ? Thats to say it aint as good as the original.. And sliding down on something is sliding down on something , sliding down ion the stock hitch aint no different then sliding down on that pretty knee chopper there.. And dont preach to me about how hard it all is. My hands have enough scars on them from fabricating so that I already know this... Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:31 pm:    not at all tom. just my point has been that these things are not at all complicated and i can't see forking out big $ for them. i no pro at this (wheeling/rovers) by any means and there are tons of *good* bumpers out there, but keeping them simple is what i was trying to do. in case i screw up (which i will) i want my rear end to able to take more than the stock could/did. if i back into a geo tracker or 6" maple i don't want to worry about it. (relatively slow speeds) i just want to be able to head to my local shop and have them add something i need and not feel like i am getting bent over and being his bitch for the week. i have yet to really see a bumper i don't like, but that's a different story when it comes to the price. your setup is damn nice i have to say. but as with mine the truth will be on the trail.   KIA Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:31 pm:    "how about if you wanna do some real towing ? " I think that will never happen, most likely, Tom's disco will be the one being towed.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:35 pm:    Ouch! lol Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:52 pm:    KIA? optima? i don't even know where that came from from this attacker. obviously looking to get in kyles pants. i don't think he goes that way, sorry. so, the aedo bumper is $850 w/a skid plate, and somebody builds it for you. garret's is $490 built himself, then another $100 with a skid plate he has to design. you will always save cash doing it yourself, that is why we all buy the shop manual. so, for $260 you get a custom built bumper if you wanna compare the two. pretty damn cheap for something hand-built, i would think. hell, you could pay that for a steak dinner for you and your sweetie with a decent chianti at Ruth Chris's. as far as real towing goes, i don't know what that is with only a 5000 lb towing capacity. shit, your rig has a 4" lift, i have a 3" lift. are receivers are pretty damn close, so i guess you need a 1.9' you say you know how hard the shit is, and you want to obviously aren't gonna do it for free. so yeah, if it comes out less than $850 for a good bumper and skid, you'll have something there, and you will sell more bumpers than Aedo will. but lets not compare this thing with garrett's, or the cost of somebody building it themselves. we do that all shit over this board - "sliders should be $100 because that is all the metal costs". he built it himself, so take the labor cost out. tom   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 03:57 pm:    I dont see where I compared it to doing it yourself at all. These things are alos done one at a time it seems. I dont quite understand that unless you are having it all laser cut like RTE. Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:00 pm:    just the mix in there with garrett...i guess i am bringing up some baggage from other threads. anyway, i think the $$ is fair for the stuff, and it would prove itself on the trails. if somebody biulds a better one for cheaper that people like better, then so be it. that one will get bought more often. i just dig the bumper i have and think it is one of the best things going for my needs. tom   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:02 pm:    Well ,dont trust it completely. That strut running into the frame is a design flaw. It aint gonna hold the truck.... You will get some boinging like treks bumper... Kyle   KIA Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:04 pm:    Tom, sorry if you took offense, and if it sounded like an attack. Believe me, that was not my intention. And I think Kyle gets plenty in his pants as is. I was just implying that your Disco might end up being a trailered truck?   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:05 pm:    want to note this again. i designed it, but did not fabricate it. i had some pretty simply plans at first, but as i kept going over to the shop i kept changing things along the way. seems like that is the way things always go. so that price of $490 is including someone else's labor. i spents a few hours on autocad doing some basic drawings. now of which are not even accurate, since we changed things here and there a few times a day. (took 2 days) i am not sure of the labor rate or the material costs that were incurred. he never broke the bill down that way. i hope no one is comparing mine to the others out there. it is not nearly as 'finished' as those out there. no powder coating, welds visible, etc. i *think* it's as strong as others out there, but has a few (1/4 panel protection) shortcomings that i was and am willing to live with. hopefully i can add/change those things along the way. a work in progress along with the rest of the truck.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:33 pm:    Kyle - I don't think the boing issue will be there based upon the design of the bumper. The side brace is extra stuff, not the only thing holding the boing down. However, I can argue that all day long, but let's just wait and have proof positive or negative instead. The inagural trip will be this Saturday. Tom   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:40 pm:    Kia - I may tow my truck if I feel like it as I have the luxury of the option. However, I have no plans for a "trailer queen" Disco which must be towed since it can't be on the highway safely. Check around at my different tech posts and photo gallery, you'll see that I went to lengths to keep my sway bars on and have AT's which I use if I plan a very long trip in the Disco. The Swampers aren't the tire of choice if I was going to drive to California to wheel. Tom   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:42 pm:    Garrett- Even better yet. You could clean up the rough spots and see if the fabricator wants to go into business with you and make more. The more stuff that is available for Disco's the better it is for everyone. Tom   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:56 pm:    i think all this new "making my own" stuff is great. seemed to come all at once........especially the rear bumpers. seems as though more and more people are tired are getting raked over with the big $$ associated with owner a rover. i hope/think you will see more of this attitude. if my fabricator can do it i am sure just about any local shop can take care of you. luckily my shop has had some experience with bumpers in the past. but for the most part they build railings and dump truck beds. that sort of thing. hell if anyone wants anything like what i have just let me know. i am sure they can build another one up in a few days. i know for sure there are others on their way to making products for our trucks. hopefully simple, strong and useful products at fair prices.   John Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 05:36 pm:    Garrett,Ive also had many, many Guiness stouts "pulled" for me in Ireland, when it was still at a proper drinking temperature. Guiness, good food and strawberry blonds...damn...Do you know what the Blarney stone was originally used for? hehehe   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 05:38 pm:    Guys, you are killing me here.. I still have another 30 minutes to go and all this talk of Guiness is making me really thirsty..   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 05:53 pm:    hehehe those remaining 3 in my fridge will be gone faster than you can say "How much for that damn $G?"   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 08:28 pm:    blarney stone. hmmmmmm. sacrificing virgins? i don't remember if anyone told me.   John Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 09:20 am:    Top of a rampart on about a 10 story level in the Blarney Castle...You lay back and lean out and kiss the underside of it with someone holding your legs and you are supposed to be gifted with the "gift of gab". I thought it sure looked like a seat. Well, turns out it was an out door john where you sit and take a crap back in those mid-evil days. The develish Irish has made a tourist attraction out of it, we are kissing butt of many good past Irish lads when you kiss the Blarney Stone. I was not only told that by good Irish friends and business aquaintainces but also read it some where in a trivia book. The Irish are quite the pranksters.   gp (Garrett) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:10 am:    oh man. i like my initial thought a little better i think. gives new meaning to the phrase 'taking a royal dump'.   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:13 am:    Hmm Now what does any of this have to do with a bumper ? A bumper dumper maybe but certainly not Tom's piece of work there... Kyle   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:33 am:    i think this stuff came over from the slider thread. how it got here, i dunno. tom   gp (Garrett) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:38 am:    it was john's fault. he is clearly to blame!!! could have switched topics to thai lady-boys, but i think the beer thread is better.   John Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:54 am:    Lol,This thread was starting to get bloody, so talking about beer helps to change the mood.   Moe (Moe) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 12:10 pm:    Actually, the $850 is looking better and better now that Tom has committed to providing a bumper dumper (made to suit your lift) with every purchase Kyle, why do you see that cross brace as a design flaw? Curious because I was thinking about doing the same thing. Currently my bumper is bolted into the wheel well. This seems ok as the quarter panel portion does move a little. I would have to agree that that the stock hitch is hard to beat as a recovery point, but I don't think it is all that great for sliding action. If you back up in a tight spot, it digs in. I'm sure many have brought home soil and gravel that collects in the tow hitch. Also, when sliding forward off objects it can put the Disco off balance as there is only a short area of contact.   mateu Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:01 pm:    Speaking of new bumpers, EE has put the TJM on their products page today. http://www.expeditionexchange.com/tjm/ It looks like a steel stock bumper. It looks good, but my first impression concerns how short the underside is. That bottom lip only appears to extend a few short inches. One of the things I like about the design on Tom's is the good coverage underneath. It extends several inches under the center and the corners. This TJM looks like it could snag under the corners in some circumstances. Of course, everyone will see it differently, but that's my first impression.   steveII Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:03 pm:    tom nice bumper but it seems to have a fatal flaw... with the spare mounted it looks like the tire will stick out. if so then when coming off of a sharp drop it will ram the tire into the cargo door causing extensive damage. it'll bust the door, smash the glass and possibly damage the shell as well..... if the bumper does protect the spare then i'm mistaken. having just installed a $500 tjm rear bumper with which i am VERY HAPPY WITH, i now know how the bumper is attached. i have to agree with kyle that removal of the NAS tow hitch and going with a bumper mounted unit seems to be a big mistake. the bumper is mounted to the chassis with just a few bolts vs. the hard mount of the welded NAS hitch. recovery from a bumper mounted points it just not as strong as the NAS hitch. i've been wheeling and purposely used the hitch and shackle as a drag point for the tail to ride on to protect the car - with great success. also used the rear step as a slider to protect the muffler..... my last IMHO is that rear skid plates on discos seem to do nothing more than collect mud, dirt leaves and makes a great habbitat for small animals... again - if you look at the departure angle from the bottom of the rear wheels to that beautiful NAS hitch point - the unglamorous and FREE lashing point loops will protect the underside.... unless you are seriously thrashing your rig and driving backwards into a nest of sharp rocks.... then a alu skid plate won't help you either!! LOL why people feel that handmade jobbies are somehow superior to bumpers made by multi million dollar companies with CAD computers and welding machines will continue to elude me... best of luck either way! steveII   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:04 pm:    hey, i am not selling these things, i just bought one! i dunno, maybe i could go into the bumper dumper business. anyway, i am not trying to sell this thing, i am just sharing my thinking process in buying a bumper here, i was looking for these things in a bumper: better departure angle greater strength to avoid the smileys rear fender protection (i already bent one) good recovery/jacking points gas tank skid the aedo bumper did all these things for me for less than the cost of the other bumpers out there...that's about it. as an aside, this hitch thing has gone out of control. my "you get a hitch" comment was comparing to SafariGuard, who makes you cut it off then buy a new one from them incorporated into the bumper which costs extra above and beyond the bumper purchase. tom   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:12 pm:    You can retain the stock hitch with a Safari scarred bumper..... Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:26 pm:    i think that TJM seems like a good price. guess time will tell. but that price is MUCH more realistic than others out there. i would never think my homemade bumper is any better than the other aftermarket ones out there. i just wanted to see what we could make and know it was something i was a part of. and at the same time learn a few things. i am sure many of the other rear bumpers out there may be better in design and all that than mine, but i was not really trying to make a better bumper than TJM, Trek or Aedo fab, etc., but to make it better than what was there (stock). and i think i have done that. sure we can all sit around and piss around with saying this and that about any particular bumper, but we all have different ideas of what we can and use them for. would i do it differently if i had to do it over? not sure yet, but i am certain that in 6 months i will say yes. i just didn't see anything out there that was in my price range or was what i wanted. so making one was a resonalble solution........and more fun too. i like that TJM.....looks like a good solution to some of the higher priced ones. keeps the stock lines similar which is nice and clean. but then again they all look pretty nice.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:29 pm:    steve - the tjm looks like a good bumper at a great price. however, i don't like the exposed tail lights and lack of fender protection. this hitch seems to be a real sticking point with everyone. my bumper alone is bolted to the frame in 8 places. then, you bolt the skid to the bumper and add another 6 or so bolts to the frame. i highly doubt you are going to rip all of that off. drive behind vehicles with a much higher towing capacity than the rover and you will see that most, if not all, of these use bolted on receivers. finally, if you don't understand the benefit of a rear skid plate (aedofab, rockware, safariguard or otherwise), no bbs chat will make you see the light of that. you'll either be lucky and never find out (good), or find out the hard way. i have dents in my gas tank, and it is not from driving backwards in a hurry. the wheeling you do probably doesn't warrant the need for a skid plate. as far as the handmade jobby comment is concerned, well, the machine built vs. hand built debate surpasses the rover rear bumper industry. also, every bumper starts out as a handmade jobby, just some companies have more resources to kick them out in mass... tom   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:30 pm:    kyle - didn't know that...tom   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:33 pm:    oh, and on the tire thing, the tjm even wouldn't help me, have to just drive smart, there. i have wider tires and GreatBasinRovers rims. keep to 235's and stock offset wheels and you should be fine. tom   Kyle Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:35 pm:    The TJM sticks out a little further. Its a nice bumper for what it is. Very utilitarian... Kyle   mateu Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:46 pm:    Well stated up there, Garrett. Everyone's going to go across the board on what's best. And back to what Garrett said, they all look nice. Each has good design, each has flaws. But it boils down to what you need, what you believe about it, and what you want to pay. Or willing to pay, I should say.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 02:00 pm:    I'm diggin that TJM action....diggin it big time...   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 02:20 pm:    blue, dig deep in your pocket. and call me. LOL   gp (Garrett) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 02:32 pm:    i bet he has that change in beer bottle redemption alone.   JRoc Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 03:18 pm:    I love the fact that we're now talking about WHICH rear bumper to get, as opposed to the lame ass options we had not too long ago! I'd like to add big fu**ing Kudos to all that saw how lame the stock one was, and actually went out and through hard work, and trial and error, came up with some options. We all have benefitted from your labor whether we buy your bumper or not! The work I do somethimes involves me getting up at 3 or 4 am, working out in the cold, at the top of a lift 80 ft in the air, rain sleet or snow, sometimes blood, always sweat, and many times tears! Point is, I don't part with my money very easily. I like sodomy gards rear bumper, and the front one as well, but who's buying there stuff at those prices??? Whoever it is, and it must be more than a few people, is not only being raped but encouraging them to rape more of us! When I see one of there bumpers on a vehicle I think to myself, there's either a yuppie poseur with the keys to that baby or some disco owner who's obsessed to the point of insanity! Either way I'm not impressed. So thanks to all the working men who've put there hard work on the shelf for us to criticize, and given us options/idea's. Now go have a beer on me. Remember beer is something that's been brewed and is usually amber, or darker, in color. LOL   Kent Westbrook Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 05:12 pm:    So, Jroc, are you saying that if someone can�t build his own bumper or his own sliders, that makes him a poseur, a waster of money, or insane? That�s like saying you shouldn�t be able to buy a house unless you can also build and design one, or shouldn�t be allowed to eat if you don�t know how to hunt. I think what we�re all trying to do is outfit our vehicles in a way that makes sense and in a way that meets what we perceive our needs to be, while staying within our own individual budgets. I doubt if many here are working to impress others. But the implication that some of us are wasting our money, we�re stupid for doing so, and we�re doing the community a disservice by paying for products instead of making them ourselves is a bit harsh, don�t you think? Some of us, like me, don�t have the know-how to even begin to consider a project like Garrett�s. I hope, one day, to reach that level of competence but what am I to do now if I want to modify my vehicle? For those of us in that boat, the most logical and convenient thing to do is purchase a ready-made product and take our satisfaction at just being able to put the darn thing on right. Sure we�ll pay a premium (I�d pay Garrett a premium for his so he can go back to Vegas to see more porn stars, as long as he shares the pictures) but that doesn�t mean we�ve got more money than good sense or that we�re more willing to part with our money than the next guy. OK, that�s it, sorry for the vent, and nothing personal intended. Been a lousy day at work. Think I'll go have a beer too, maybe something harder.   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 05:29 pm:    garrett you have become a legend... hehe and for all that cad and welding machines that the big's dogs have.. 'um, well some of the little dogs might have that too. rd   Jeff Bieler (Mrbieler) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 05:59 pm:    Well, until you guys start selling bumpers with this critical option, they are all over priced...   mateu Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 06:39 pm:    Awesome...   Kent Westbrook Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 11:27 pm:    That is, indeed, awesome!   JRoc Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 12:26 am:    Hey Kent, I was refering to Safari Gard and Trek Outfitters who's rear bumpers cost an insane $1200.-$1600. depending on "options". I wasn't saying one must build his own rear bumper, but rather thanks to the men who have built rear bumpers that are sturdy, and somewhat reasonably priced. I, for one, probably won't be building my own rear bumper mostly because I don't have the time. I do know what's it's like to work with my hands building something and I think we're sometimes a bit too critical of the people and there designs. But on the flipside I can't understand how a company like ARB and TJM can design and manufacture a bumper in Australia, ship it to the states, sell it to company's like EE and 4x4 exchange, then they sell it to the public and everyone makes money??? Why does it cost sooo much for one person to make a bumper himself and sell it himself??? Personally I'm torn between Aedofab's bumper and TJM's and I'm leaning towards TJM's because I like the fact that they keep the rear lights. Strength wise it's probably better to not have the lights there but I like em. I also think structurally it's better to have the rear hitch mounted to the frame like it is and not in the rear bumper. More rear clearance would be nice to have but strength is more of a factor to me. TJM's keeps with the lines of the vehicle and is sturdier than the original, and that's all I'm aksing for. I'm sure TJM doesn't make as much per item as alot of other company's, but I'd bet anything they sell many more pieces and make 10 times as much money! Anyway, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying you MUST build your own bumper, but simply paying the price that some company's are asking (safari gard, trek outfitters) is ridiculous! Kent you sound like a nice fellow and I didn't take any offense to what you said, and I hope you didn't take any offense to what I've said. Personally I think we were both venting, LOL. Good Luck   gp (Garrett) Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 08:14 am:    first off rob......yes i am a legend in my own right. well at least on campus!! (eventhough i am 31 now) haha. yeah i wish. and jeff......that is too funny. i had recently gotten a 'travel with rovers' bottle opener and walked out to my truck just after having the new bumper installed and was looking for a place to attach it. the girlfriend was like......"that's just stupid". what the hell does she know!! so now i feel a little better knowing someone else has done it. i was considering waiting to get the ARB up front and attach it there, but i am not sure. i mean in true tailgate fashion it should be in the back. no need to walk all the way to the front of the truck to open a cold one. what a waste of time and effort. i think that is a real selling point. if Ho and John attach one to every TJM out there i think they have struck gold. and kent anytime you feel the urge to head to vegas for a porn convention.......just let me know. i would be happy to be a guide out there, now that i have seen the light.   Kent Westbrook Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 10:59 pm:    JRoc, I really wasn't trying to be a dick, just had a lousy day, so appreciate you not taking offense. And I certainly agree with you on the do-it-your-selfers, guys with enough imagination and know-how to come up with alternative solutions. Maybe one of these days I'll reach that point myself. I haven't seen the Aedofab but I do like the look of the TJM. Don't know if they make one yet for the D2, which is what I'm driving. Right now, if you look close, my factory bumper is kind of cockeyed, so sturdy would be good, that's also why I like the look of Garrett's. And Garrett, I'm too old and too married to attend in person, but more pictures will be fine.   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 01:55 am:    Kent - the Aedofab one is the picture on top. JRoc - The Aedofab bumper is built around a receiver hitch. The reciever hitch that you see is actually welded to a square bar that bolts to the frame directly. The bumper is built around the trailer hitch, rather than the hitch being attached to the bumper. Tom   Anonymous Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 12:04 pm:    Don't get too upset Tom. Even though people are slamming your bumper left and right you can sleep well knowing that your bumper is still better than this one.