Rear drive shaft fun!!!

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Author Message   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 07:28 am:    Well this weekend i went about with the task of replacing my rear rotoflex style drive shaft. i was looking forward to it as much as the new Kathy Ireland tape. but i will make this short. FINALLY got that pain in the ass centralizing peg out after breaking a few bolts with that LR tool. eventually just welded up a few pieces to the end of the peg to make sure it would not happen again. got the peg off and the pinion flange off to with a little cursing and some added heat to it to melt the lock-tite. big fun there. but here is the really big fun and question. once i pulled the centralizing peg off to reveal the pinion there was no way it would mate up with the 'new' 4 bolt flange that they sent me. the 'new' piece was much shorter and was not slotted or groved to slide over the pinion. so i am left with wondering what the hell they sent. aaron auto sells these 'swap' kits quite often and was just suprised that they would have sent the wrong bag of goodies. i don't have pics right now, but will have some later tonight. but what they sent was a 4 bolt flange that is much shorter and no splines along it at all. any information or suggestions appreciated. will be calling aaron auto soon.   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 08:10 am:    well from what they are telling me they sent the wrong year flange. great. just have to wait til tomorrow to get the right one in my hands. least the hard part is over.   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 08:52 am:    Damn Garret - I was just about to message you to find out how it finished up - LOL, guess I won't! Sorry toi hear it was such a PIA - nothing like a terrible job + a wrong part to brighten up your day. Guess you front wheel drive for a bit...... Good luck on getting the correct part. Bill   Kyle Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 08:52 am:    Gasrrett , you did remove the pinion nut and slide off the Roto flange right ? Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 09:01 am:    yeah we got the nut off after some yanking with a huge ass torque wrench and some heat. bitch was on there good. but got it off and the old 3 bolt roto flange came off after. but i have to run back out to the garage where we were working on the truck and check to see how many splines that pinion had. they obviously sent the wrong one. just talked to them (Aaron Auto). the biggest PITA about the whole thing was breaking the small bolt that 'taps' into the end of the centralizing peg. broke one and then we decided to weld right to the end of the peg instead of drilling out the end of the busted bolt and re-tapping. worked out good. slid right out. not driving the truck now, since i left the U joint in place at the t-case. was too pissed to start tearing more apart. and anyhow jen will let me drive her '00 D2 around. that ain't too bad.   Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 09:46 am:    I wonder if a slide hammer wouldn't be a better way to get that damned peg out of there?   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 09:53 am:    once we got the tool welded on there it was easy as pie and no more breaking of that little screw. would have been more of a bitch without the LR tool. the peg is independant of the the flange and pulls out from within the flange. we were not up on a lift either, so hammering would have been pretty tough as well. all is good for now.   hendrik Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 11:12 am:    Oh, you got the correct flange (there are two types only, one with 4 big splines on older vehivles and one fine-spline). What you need is a distance piece (tube). This is standard on all front diffs, but you have to look hard to notice. Its a simple tube that is first pushed on the pinion and then the flange put on and tightened. I dont have the part number at this terminal but your dealer should know. [Same happened to me, but I forgot about it] ? perhaps the info you need.   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 11:43 am:    yeah. what they gave me what a shorter piece with the large 4 splines i am guessing. my truck ('96) has the fine splines. but he was saying it either has about 10 splines or about 20. so i have to run out and check to see about how many it has. but what came off my truck and what they gave me is vastly different. the one they gave me is about 2 inches shorter too. but maybe you are right. sounds like something they forgot to give me or what i have which i did not notice came off. hmmmmmmmm............   Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 11:51 am:    Garret: A slide hammer has a weight that slides linearly in the same plane as the device you're trying to remove. As a result, you'd be sliding the weight hammering toward the front of the vehicle. I'll be doing this soon and I'll try the slide hammer method and let you all know how it works. Paul   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 11:52 am:    ok now for more clarification. what they gave me came off a 86-87 RR classic. with the large 'key' type 4 spline. mine has the later 24 spline. just the wrong one they sent me. so i should have the 'new' one here tomorrow.   hendrik Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 11:55 am:    did he mix up axle-halfshaft splines with pinion splines ?? They are 10 and 24 splines (CV-Joint end of the front´s axle halfshat is an exception: 23 or 32(?) splines AFAIK). Compare the rotoflex to the 4-bolt flange. The former is longer so does not need the tube. When I tried to tighten the 4-bolt flange without the tube (it fitted, having the correct splines) it would not turn any more. After a look in the parts manual it became clear.   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 12:15 pm:    no they just sent the wrong flange. it was off an older RR. so hopefully what he has sent will be what i am looking for. adam at AA seemed to know this setup pretty well and knew what someone had sent incorrectly. they sell lots of these rear shaft swaps. i will know more tomorrow when it is in my lap. thanks   Kyle Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 12:29 pm:    The pinion is 24 spline the same as the axle shaft..... Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 12:32 pm:    yep. that is what i am getting sent. should be all good by about 7 pm tomorrow. anyone happen to know what size bolts/nuts go into my 'new' 4 bolt flange? they look a little smaller than what came off the 3 bolt. thanks   Kyle Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 12:41 pm:    3/8 bolts are fine.... Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 12:53 pm:    you know what length would work as well? want to make sure i get something close to grade 8 as well. thanks.   JB Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 01:32 pm:    The driveshaft bolts are part# 509045P and NZ606041L for the nuts which are are 3/8"-24 thread with nylon locking. Factory bolts are only half threaded and I could find nothing like it at Home D'pot. Not in your kit ?   gp (Garrett) Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 01:42 pm:    nope. they did not send along bolts. i have a good local store here in town that had grade 5 and 8 bolts that i should be able to use. thanks for the info.   Scott Copeland Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:47 pm:    I got the center pin out with a Harmonic Balancer puller.If you look at one you will see that the puller has the same shape as the three hole flange.It also has a center hole to put a bolt in the pin.   JB Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 02:59 pm:    Buy some loctite if you don't get Nylock nuts...   E Snyder Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 11:01 pm:    The spacer ring you needed was readily available from my closest dealer (LR Richmond). I was also swapping out a RR Classic shaft to my Disco.   gp (Garrett) Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 09:52 pm:    i am about to put my fist through my windshield right now. here is the deal. got the new flange that bolts up to the rear diff. the 24 spline. that worked out just fine. next was just slipping on the new rear shaft over the spline on the existing from u joint on the rear. well not so easy. i measured the old and new shaft and they were both identical with the exception that the old one (stock) had one spline missing. of course this was on purpose. there was no sign of damage or anything. but the new one that was sent to me did not have that missing one. it was literally impossible to get this new shaft to slip on. should be VERY easy to go on. but it took lots of blood sweat and tears to get that fucking bitch on. but i knew this was not good......even with slight articulation the shaft would not move very freely. and of course just taking it down the road slowly i could tell something just ain't right. so what's the deal? could this shaft be the wrong one as well? not sure if i should call Aaron Auto back on this too. i mean they did sent the wrong flange on the other end. what gives? just tired of messing with this damn thing. thanks for any suggestions.   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 08:58 am:    Garrett, not sure I'm understanding this correctly, but did AAron not send you an entire rear DS - did they send the just the portion long portion and not the slide joint (male portion) - and you're trying to mate part of your old shaft to the new one? If so - that's fucked up - Aaron should have sent you a complete shaft. Sorry if I'm having a brain dead morning - was a late night last night. I was working on tearing apart an 88 RRC last night and it has the full rear DS if you still end up needing one. E-mail me if so. Bill   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 09:24 am:    yeah they did not send the slide joint. that is what i was thinking. those parts move and wear together. two unrelated pieces will not work together as well. i am calling now and bitching up a storm. the slide joints looks to be a PITA though. the U joint is in the way of the 9/16's nuts, but doable i am sure. ah well. i will post back later. bluegill. you should have a good head start on this in the future. make sure they send you the correct shit. they have fucked up twice now. make sure you talk to Adam. thanks   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 10:09 am:    You definitely need the original mating pieces! Like you said, they have worn in together. Even one that goes together can be a bitch to put back together (BTDT). Now even if you bitch at them, you can't be sure you'll get the original part that goes with the 1/2 DS they already sent you. Sorry - but what a fucked up outfit! Let me know if you end up just sending back the whole mess and need another complete DS. Bill   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 10:19 am:    yeah i think i will just tell them to send me a whole new setup from scratch. that is the only way to know. i will keep you in mind too. thanks bill. later   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 10:25 am:    yep. they meant to send it and of course did not. the owner was out that day and someone fucked up. i have the stock # on my shaft and they will find the truck it came off. the part should be hanging off anyhow. this should take care of my headache woes. man oh man.   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:07 pm:    sometimes trying to save a few bucks turns out to cost you more.... rd   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:20 pm:    so they actually pulled the shaft apart by the sliding joint and only sent you the rear portion? Goddamn. Rover Treehouse here I come....   Bill Bettridge (Billb) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 12:29 pm:    Garrett - that probably won't solve your problem If you mated your half to their half by force, then it is very likely that the two original pieces won't go back together again Sorry Bill   Dan Cronin Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:11 pm:    Woah! What a cluster-fuck! Man I feel for ya bro'. BTW, I'm not rubbing salt into your wound, but like Bill said What a fucked up outfit. I'd be sending you free shit if I were them to save their name! I am doing this job on Monday. I have a full two piece shaft and with god UJ's (Rover Clubhouse) with 24 spline 4 bolt flange. I built the tool to pull the peg and have a slide hammer and torch to persuade the peg out. What about the socket size of the pinion nut? What is the size of that bad boy, anyway?   Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 02:47 pm:    Dan: Let me know how the slide hammer works, please. Paul   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 03:16 pm:    GP, you are going to have another issue when you get the other part even if they do match up and fit together.. How the hell did they balance the drive shaft if they sent it to you in two pieces? They didn't. Which means you will have to put it together and then take it some where and pay to have it balanced which could cost you another 50 bucks.. I'd be telling them you want a nice complete whole balanced drive shaft instead of the other half. Send that crap back. I hope that they at least kissed you before fucking you.   gp (Garrett) Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 05:49 pm:    blue. yeah the ding dong forgot to send along the front piece of the shaft with the u joint. adam (owner) was pretty upset and was not there that day. boo hoo. but admits that they fucked up good. wasn't really trying to save a buck.......just wanted to get a good used shaft and not end up buying some new ones that i have not heard all that many great things about. many folks have done this with no issues.....i am just the 1% asshole that truly got the shaft. oh well. we will see on monday if this works out. maybe tuesday. i know what you mean bill....i am thinking the same thing. if all fails then back to square one. and eric.....not even a hug or complimentary reach around from the fuckers. ah well.   Dan Cronin Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:07 am:    OK! Well guys, I did it. I changed the GDMF out! Here' how it went: First off, like I said, I built the removal tool for the centering peg. First thing I did after removing the POS Roto-Flex was I sprayed generous amounts of WD-40 on the mating surfaces of the peg-to flange area then took my handy-dandy propane torch and heated up the "to-be-removed" flange just enough to get it hot, but not too hot to melt the oil seal behind it. Next, I mounted the removal tool (not really mounting it in a strange kinda way, but getting it mounted on to the flange) onto the flange, sinched up the removal bolt and luck would have it, the centering peg complied and out it came in about 8 turns. I said to myself, "self, this is too easy. there must be something wrong". Well, there wasn't anything wrong. It was ALL RIGHT! Next, I removed the pinion nut (15/16" or 24 MM socket) Be careful there, about 90 ft/lbs. on deck. I actually used a floor jack to to manipulate the the socket wrench to break the nut free. Peg out, Nut off, flange slid off with just enough resistance to know the splines were good, ALL GOOD! Then, I oiled up the new flange bearing surface with 90wt. Slid the spacer on the shaft, then the splined flange, then the hefty flat washer, then the new nyloc nut. Torqued it down to 90 ft.lbs. using a tension wrench so the torque wasn't applied to rear diff. Shaft on, torqued down, Disco Happy. Roto-Flex Sad. Happy shaft, Sad Roto-Flex. Now that's more like it! Need more details? e-mail me. [email protected]   gp (Garrett) Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:34 am:    yeah. wish i had all the right parts from the get go!!! yeah i had to use some heat to get that peg out too. made it a little easier for sure. when you say "spacer" what are you refering too? what does it look like. i am just making sure i have that on there. i don't remember seeing that. i have the flange with the 'cup' facing out and then the big ass flat washer of course.   Dan Cronin Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:04 pm:    There is a precision ground spacer that is approximately 1/2" to 5/8" long. It is hardened steel and it will slide over the splined shaft before you put the splined flange on. It basically puts the load back on the centering bearing as you tighten everything down since the new four bolt flange is shorter than the three bolt roto-flex flange. So the sequence after removing all the old rotoflex hardware is; 1). Slide the spacer on to the pinion gear (over the splined shaft). 2). Lubricate the bearing surface of the four bolt flange and the oil seal then slide it on to the shaft. 3).Put the hefty flat washer on the threaded end of the shaft. 4).Install the new nyloc nut. 5). Torque down the new nyloc nut to 90 ft./lbs. You're laughin'!   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:08 pm:    well i dont know how good this kit is or what you paid, but it another option http://www.atlanticbritish.com/freelander_product_list.asp?p1=20&i1=ON&r1=ALL&vehicle=All&category=ALL&s1=&srch=9300&x=14&y=10 rd   gp (Garrett) Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 05:03 pm:    god damit!!! sorry, but i don't have that god damn spacer and knew it. what is up with this. it is the project from hell. i hate you Dan......you were in and out in no time. haha. just kidding. just wish it was easier for me that is all. right now i don't have the rear shaft on and it is making a bit of noise. just the flange floating around a bit and bumping on the rear diff that is all. pretty sure i can get that spacer from LR. better give them a call now. just more time to wait i guess. could be worse, but i am not sure how. haha. oh well.....better just get drunk and forget about it. ahhhhh. feeling better already. thanks Dan!! later ps: i paid $150 for the shaft, flange and male piece on the t-case side. but they fucked up royaly.   Kyle Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 05:55 pm:    Now here is where the statements I am always making come into play... You shoulda called Bill at GBR some time back and your cluster would have been over... Getting shit "Cheaper" Dont always work out for ya.... In another thread there was some Bill bashing going on but these are the times when you are really really glad you have a vendor like Great Basin Rovers... Its like having a Parachute you know will always open... Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 06:40 pm:    i wasn't really trying to be a CB here. just had heard this was done quite frequently and with little pain. but of course i end up being the in the 1% that gets my parts when the "boss was out." sure i would have liked to have not gone through all this, but was pretty comfortable going this route since many others have without issue. just sucks for sure and no doubt at times i would like to go the route that is the most painless. just didn't happen that way this time.   Ron Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:16 pm:    I am just swapping in a whole new diff. Just picked it up. FWIW it seems like the easist solution. Anyone got a spare rear TT lying around? Ron   Kyle Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:36 pm:    Man there aint nothing to the swap. Ya just need the right shit to do it with.... Kyle   Ron Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:44 pm:    Yes . . . but if I have to pull it for the locker install. The diff was free so . . . Ron PS there is a flange "update" available from LR   Kyle Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 09:14 pm:    That flange update is for the T case I believe ?? Kyle   Ron Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 11:49 pm:    There is one for the diff too. They like to "update" things that leak to newer designs that leak. Ron   Rob Davison (Pokerob) Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:32 am:    so how do you like the rear shaft you got from bill, kyle? i thought you were stock rd   Kyle Posted on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 12:04 pm:    Again , it is all very "Stock". If its sitting on the shelf somewhere you would consider it stock right ? Kyle   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 08:09 am:    hey any of you have the LR part # for the spacer (for the rear 4 bolt flange) that i need. i might have someone heading to Harrisburg today and they could swing by the dealer if they have it. thanks!!!   gp (Garrett) Posted on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 09:06 am:    nevermind. i got it. the planets are starting to align now. haha.