Super Swamper TSL Radial?

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Author Message   ryan Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:18 am:    Is anybody here running this tire? I read some reviews on it, and for the most part, people liked them. I am thinking about getting 265/70-16 which has an 8-ply rating, is this good enough for a Disco? How do they perform off-road and on-road?   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:24 am:    Off road these tires are SICK!!!!!!! On road they're loud and wear like warm butter (in Jeep circles we refer to them as 20k mile tire). Oh yeah, in snow? Verrrrry spooky. I was all set to buy a set this week (lots of folks I know run them) but have decided on either MTr's or MT KMs. I currently run the BFG AT KO, but really need something more agressive off road. RJ   nadim Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:25 pm:    I have them in the afore-mentioned (corrected?) 265/80 16 size. They are good, but the sidewall is not great at ALL, and their tread is not too mud happy, Imean, they seem to be not fit for anything in particular. My advice, get the MTRs for rock, the Boogers in 31 size or for Mud, or the MT KM for the TSL Radial replacement. I was not impressed at all with the tires. p.s. you have to have an upgraded drivetrain (7 rear diffs blown...previously heavy righty)   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 02:17 pm:    Uh, TSL's not work in mud? What planet are you from LOL! That is one thing I've learned here in New England. BFG MT's and GY MTr's are great but Swampers just plain rule in the muck. Yeah, the TSL Boggers are better absolutely in the mud, but TSL's and mud are like Lucas and Darkness.... If you're looking for the ultimate sidewall you'll have to get the Bias ply TSL SX....having mangled several BFG sidewalls, I'm seriously considering the MTr's but have been seeing mixxed results on the trail (not as many failures as the BFG, but they've been out less time...). As I said, because of Snow, I'm staying away from the TSL's (I my own a 4x4 business but I can't afford 2 sets of tires/wheels heh heh!) RJ   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 02:59 pm:    RJ - Every try a set of siped swampers? You would be shocked at how nicely they perform in the snow on the full-time 4x4 LR. Tom   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 03:41 pm:    Actually, the sipes were an option I was looking at. May have reccomended it. I was going to get a set from a friend who's selling his TJ so the TSL's already had 12k on them, felt like $300 on the 4 tires plus siping would end up priced high....I figure I'll run the AT KO's I have now until Spring and then make a decision....the TSL radials are soooo tempting (31x9.5 for my '99 XJ with 3" of OME lift). The sheer off road durability is calling to me LOL. Sick of making up stories to the folks at NTB to qualify for the Road Hazard LOL!!!!!! Wanna see some pics? I ate a AT KO on the Mohawk trail last april... here's the webshots album http://community.webshots.com/user/tozovr RJ   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 03:42 pm:    Oh yeah! Tom, where'd you get your siping done? How much? RJ   Blake Luse (Muddyrover) Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:08 pm:    tsl's kick ass especially tsl sx but yeah they do wear quick but where else can you find a better mud tire than interco   RVR OVR (Tom) Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:48 pm:    Discount Tire for $10/tire. I have the Bias Ply tires. Do they wear fast? Yep. But do they work well? Yep -- Even in snow. Soft rubber and siped tires can be pretty darn grippy. Tom   perroneford Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 12:42 am:    YOu may also consider the Swamper LTB. Mine seem to be doing nicely, but they are not as nice on-road as the TSL Radials. Sidewalls are about 3x as thick as the GY MTR. I've put about 1800 miles on them and they little rubber "nipples" are just starting to wear off. I bought them expecting 20k miles, but I may get more than that. -P   nadim Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 02:56 am:    Guys, The only reason I tell you that I was not that impressed with the TSl radials in the Mud is because I feel they need a lot of spinning to get them cleaned. Plus, the inner lugs clog up quite well. There is the Simex Centipede that have not yet reached the US, but I have seem them work, and they are in a different league when it comes to "tall-thin" tires for mud (as opposed to the Boggers which are fat: they now come in a nice Disco size 33x12.5). These are what I'll be getting next. It also helps that they are semi-directional. the TSL SX rule. These lugs on the side help in rocks, mud, and snow. I regret not getting the 32x11.5x16/15 SXs before, being tempted by the 32.2 hight of the Radials versus the ~31.5 on the SX. I'll take the SXs anyday. Street, its only marginal worse. For the strength of the Radial sidewalls, there are a couple of pics in my photo gallery (that sounded cheezy!)... Good luck...   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 08:58 am:    Nadim, now you're really getting me bummed!!! ;) You start talking of the stuff we can't have LOL!!!! I bet you guys have some AMAZING tires there we'll never see huh? I've seen some pics of some Conti's and Michelins that make me drool hahahahaaaaa.... What's this centipede look like? RJ   muskyman Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:55 am:    Nadim is correct about a semi directional tire cleaning better then a standard tread. I Have seen the same thing on a number of brands. I run Baja Claws on my scout (35x13.50x15)siped they are the best mixed trail tire I have seen to date ,and the sidewalls are just sick as far as thick goes. the 31x11.50x16 would be a good one on a disco I'd think and because they are only 31" these power poor trucks would be able to turn them.   Neil Flanagan (Electriceel) Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 10:22 am:    Another tire you may want to consider are Buckshot Mudders. They are as agressive(and pretty bullet proof)as the Swampers and come in tall skinny sizes. 245/85/15 - 31"D - 7.7"TW 275/85/15 - 33"D - 8.6"TW 265/85/16 - 33"D - 8.6"TW I have 265/85/16's on the 90 and like them. Not quite as loud as the Swamper but in a 90 ST you don't really notice. They are also set to accept studs. It makes the winter Mt. Equinox climb sound like pulling velcro appart when you hit the ice patches. As for wear, I'll be surprised if they see 20k miles. Neil   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 10:29 am:    Yeah the buckshots are nice (now made by MAxxis and called the Maxxis Mudder methinks) and do wear bad...friend got 23k out of hers.... RJ   Milan Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 11:03 am:    Just few points based on my experiences: The MT Claw is a unidirectional tire. It performs as well as the bogger in mud and better than the bogger in snow. The TSL radial I found to be a very good tire. Not as good as a bias ply TSL in mud due to the shallower tread (and smaller size - 32x10.5 vs. 33x12.5) but better in the snow. While I can live with almost any tire, I think bias ply TSLs suck in snow. Yet they were not nearly as bad as 33x9.5 BFG MT. Go figure. However, I think the narrow width had a lot to do with it. The radials also have better road manners. Now I have GY MT/Rs and find those the best everywhere but mud. Siping would make them even better but that is true of any tire. The TSLs, both radial and bias ply, boogers and claws have similar life-span - not much. The radials seemed to wear fast but in the end they actually seemed to last. I sold them long before they wore out. The bias ply TSLs seemed to run hotter than any other tire I've had but did not wear as fast as people lead me to believe. I could easily get 2+ years out of them but by the end they would not be good off-road. The boggers and claws were not on my truck, so I don't really know but they seemed to wear just as fast if not faster than my TSLs. All that and my buddy's General Grabbers worked better on all surfaces than any of my tires because he had his studded and siped. The studs worked on ice and off-road. He could actually climb out of ruts easier than I could with my TSLs. And the sipes helped on road, in snow and on rocks. On wet pavement the sipes counter-acted the studs, so he did not slide around as he would have with just studed tires. BUT he ripped sidewalls where my TSLs and Goodyears just walked through. This may be less of an issue with D or E rated tires though. As usual, your mileage may vary. Pun intended.   muskyman Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 10:28 pm:    "The MT Claw is a unidirectional tire" milan,my claws have chevron paterns making them directional. they are also awsome in deep snow   Milan Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:56 am:    Musky, Unidirectional means you should run the tire in one direction only. All chevron-like treads are unidirectional. Omnidirectional tires are those that you can run in either direction. Directional is short for unidirectional. I agree on the MT Claw being surprisingly good in snow. Well better than TSL or Bogger anyway.   muskyman Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:11 am:    the 31 x 11.50 x 16 baja claws are cheap too at $140...my tires are like $225   Milan Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 01:52 pm:    You might find the Claws a bit short for the designated size. I.e. 35s are more like 33s, 33s are more like 31s, so I'm guessing the 31's would be more like 29's or 230/70R16s. The sidewalls are tough though and I'm sure the width would help too and for the money, heck why not, eh? BTW, this is not ture for all sizes and I'm talking about the bias plies only. I have no experience with the radials in terms of performance and I think they run truer to their designated size.   RJ Clayton (Tozovr) Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 02:09 pm:    One of the only domestically available brands that run 100% true to size is Interco.   Mel A. (Krawlrovr) Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 05:48 pm:    I'm not sure about that RJ. Their larger sizes run about the same as advertized, but some of the smaller ones are off by like .5 inch. Also Swampers are a PITA to maintain, and most have a weak load rating. Your alrady marginal gas mileage will suffer, as well as your ride. I would go for some BFG KM's or GY MTR's for a DD. But those Super Swamper LTB's are tempting for a dedicated off-road tire.   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:35 am:    see now I happen to feel obliged to say here you cant put the BFG MT or the GY MTR in the same catagory as the swampers,boggers,or claws. in any kind of real mud there is such a difference you can not even consider them the same "style" tire. The GY MTR's are really a very aggresive AT. the block seperations are way to small for mud. as far as sizes go my bias ply 35" claws where 35.5 tall when new on 8" rims. I air way down, 4 or 5 psi for deep snow and soupy stuff .the narrow rim matches the narrow tread and keeps the side biters off the ground at higher psi's for better steering control at speed they actually are pretty queit on the road till they get really worn, and give a very secure solid feel as do all bias plys.   Milan Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:31 pm:    I could not agree more on the mud comments. But if you want DD or all-around tire, go for the MTR. If you want trail tire and your trail is not just rocks, go for the Swampers or the Claws. The claws I measured were less than 34" tall on an 8" rim. Since it was in the shop, maybe they had no air in them but I'm sure I would have checked. Basically the MT Claws in 35s were nearly same height as 33x12.50 TSL 33.4" (I measured 33.5 but I'm sure I would not be able to tell .1" just by eye-leveling), the claws about 1/4" taller but wider. I saw the same on another vehicle once mounted - they "seemed" no taller than my TSL's. Maybe they're making them taller now. In any case I'm glad to hear they're close enough to the advertised size.   muskyman Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 05:02 pm:    they may be making them shorter...I traded 2 sets of my tire-lockers to Mickey Thompson co. for 6 of the first claws back about 4 years ago, well before they where released as a production tire. mine weigh 70lbs a piece, I have seen 60 something as the current weight so maybe they have dropped the tread depth or something. I also agree with you Milan, as a DD tire the MTR looks like a real good option.   Milan Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:00 am:    Hey musky, That's odd about the weight. I have not seen any new ones, so I'm not sure what if any changes were made to the tread. BTW, are you running those claws on your rover? If so, I'd like to see some pics if you have them. Thanks.   nadim Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:53 am:    Mmmmm....Claws...i like... I will look into having the claws here from somewhere, i think the 35x12.5 is a good size for the disco if they are smaller than actual 35" tall... I like the semi-directional attributes to tires, especially the mud/rock/snow ones. I am willing to go extreme on one set (Simex/Claw/Boggers) since I will be running BFG AT for everyday and snow, although the Claws seem to do gret in snow as you guys are pointing out, so what if i only get the Claws (maybe in radial form?)??? Good discussion people...   muskyman Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:52 am:    Milan, I have the claws on my Scout my trail truck.My disco still lives as a family hauler. I have tried all kinds of tires over the years and tried a number of sets before I settled on the claws. I run super low tire pressures for flotation on soupy conditions and snow. the tire-locker system retains the bead at any /or no air pressure. it also retains both beads inside and out,where most bead lock systems just lock the outside. this puts huge tearing loads on the carcass of the tire under heavy acceleration. I dont think that would be a problem with a disco(lol)but most the trucks I wheel with have big power under the hood to get the truck up on top of snow or bottomless mud. myCLAWS have worked in all kinds of conditions from dry rock to hardpacked icey roads. I also pull a 4300lb jeep to and from the trailhead and have found that aired up the bias ply claws are super stable under heavy loads and would make a excellent expedition tire due to its nearly industructable build.   nadim Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 10:15 am:    Milan, Those Beadlocks you have/use...what's the story with them? I want some locks, but in Lebanon, its hard to ship some, and I am not too keen into the hasstle of building some on my own and remaining with the internal one free to shift. Can I install some on a 'normal' 15x8 steel wheel? How much does a set of 4 cost? are they light (can I carry them with me if I visit the US?   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 11:32 am:    Musky, what's the skinny on your locking system? Any info available?   Dee Cantrell (Discodad) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 11:53 am:    Nadim, Milan got those from me there Allied Rock-A-Thon rims email me if your intrested. Not sure about shipping to you but ill give it a try if your intrested.. [email protected] or [email protected]   Zak Ruck (Zak) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 12:51 pm:    Dumb question, but will any of the Baja's fit a stock sprung D1, if i get 15" rims???? I'm looking at getting a second set of rims just for off roading, and would love something more aggressive than the average MT's.   muskyman Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 06:09 pm:    zak, they make claws in a 31 x 11.50 x 16 that may fit? greg, my tire-lockers are not for sale right now...I have made a bunch of sets and have tested them inside and out,includding some really noisy destructive testing that was downright scarry. in a 33x12.50x15 bfg mt it took 265psi to cause one to fail. they are built from ballistic grade kevlar cloth and use a heavy duty tube. in the 7 years we used them we never had a trail failure other then when something did in the valve stem. I have had conventional beadlocks in the past and they are just a big PITA . the system I use now is nothing new, drag guys have been doing it for decades. I just improved the design to make them simple and more reliable for the off road world. I do have a dirt racer in the midwest soda series that did use them for 5 years with no problems and the weight savings is worth some power to those guys. all said and done they can be folded up into a shoe box and weight only about 2 lbs per tire. maybe I should talk Dee into selling the things for me then maybe it would be worth while to start building them again. I just dont have time to play the retail game right now. and without the time to play retailer getting any new product project off the ground is tuff.   Zak Ruck (Zak) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 06:26 pm:    How wide is the 11.5????   muskyman Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 06:31 pm:    baja claws sizes zak looks like 8.8"   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 06:38 pm:    shouldn't the 11.5 be 11.5" wide?   muskyman Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 06:42 pm:    well the section width is 11.5 the tread width is 8.8 they call my tires 35 x 13.5 but they are really the same width as most 35 x 12.50'S so blue I dont know what to tell you except I really want an amp that goes to 11   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 06:47 pm:    LOL   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 06:51 pm:    musky, i got one that goes to 12 now. it is much louder.   Milan Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:06 pm:    Nadim, The rims I got are as Dee says. Allied Rock-a-thon beadlocks. I got them through him and they should do me nicely. They are very heavy but the whole rims is built heavy duty. They are 15", so tire selection is better, though I would like a 16" rim in any case. So if durability is what you want, go for them and see of Dee can ship to you. If you want light weight and possibly pick them up yourself, then I guess muskyman's locks are the way to go. I myself wnated to try a set of those but they were just like a new set of rims or more. The Claws are great in snow, probably due to their chevron style tread pattern. They slip a bit on sidehills but like musky says, low air pressure is the key to their overall performance. I don't know if you'd like the radials as their tread is shallower (just like bias ply vs. radial swamper). You could get bias plies and sipe them, I suppose. I also found them to flex better than bias ply swampers at the same pressure. The heavy Disco may not require 5psi to get them mushy, though on a 35 that's what you may have to run in snow or on sand. Because of their "softer than swamper's" sidewall, they seemed to retain the bead better. Again, our test sample is very small to say for sure that's how they're going to work but it's something to consider. Blue, A 12.5 swamper only has tread width of 9.9". Some even less. This is one reason why I believe you can get away with "wide" tires on narrow rims if the tread with comes close to the rim width.   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:08 pm:    I want a Disco that can go 130 like the speedo says.   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:22 pm:    speaking of speed... how believable is 111.5 mph with my disco?   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:35 pm:    not very   Blue (Bluegill) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:36 pm:    I rarely top 75, but then again I'm JYD nowadays   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:43 pm:    yeah, i am thikning my GPS needs servicing.   Dee Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:17 pm:    My 30 ft Motor Home is faster than the Disco...   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:17 pm:      Dee Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:27 pm:    Yeah was that in your other car... A Disco doing 111.5 yeah down hill from Big BeaR Bah Bah oh thatS funny.. My Motor Home has a EFI Banks and chiped 460 and its pulling many tons. its also has a 75 gal gas tank and gets up wopping 10 mpg it tops out a 95 MPH on flat land and about 40 up 8% grades of at that speed itsd olny getting about 5mpg LOL. I break out the lawn chair at the pumps.... The firts 120.00 fill-up gets to you...   muskyman Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:33 pm:    Dee, costs about $76 bucks to fill our ski boat(425hp 502 chevy) and only about 35min of barefootin at 45mph to empty it....as they say ya gotta pay to play   Dee Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:32 am:    LOL on that one. if i take it easy i can rack up som miles on a tank full, i also have a gear vendor OD on it.... Man that 502 in a Land Rover wow...   muskyman Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 09:40 am:    Dee, the motor is a pleasure craft marine off the shelf unit. it has 100% duty cycle at the governed 4200 rpm they just build motors so much better when they are intended for marine use. this motor could just as easily ended up side by side two others in some huge cruiser Bikini barge. the powerslot 1:1 •••••• behind it is the coolest part you can grab reverse at any time and use it as a water brake. so you can drive right into a dock grab reverse and stop dead. its just fun to drive. in a disco it would just be sick   Dee Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 09:48 am:    Man that sounds fun...   ryan Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 10:33 am:    Nadim, in your gallery it says that you run a 5.5 inch wide wheel. Doesn't a 10.5" tire, like your 265/80 TSL Radials, need to be mounted on at least an 7 inch rim? This could be why you are not getting the traction desired from your TSL radials.   Daniel Rork (Danrork) Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 11:46 am:    Okay is anyone running the LTB's. Was thinking about the 31-11.50's on my 95 with a two inch lift. Just curious if anyone had any opinions on them.   Will Roeder (Will_Roeder) Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 12:14 pm:    Perrone Ford is i think he has 34x10.50   perroneford Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 04:31 pm:    I have them. Go read my opinions on them here: http://www.spanishtrailrovers.com/Tech/Mods/SwamperLTB/swamperltb.html -P   Chris Browne Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 06:19 pm:    Yeak I've been toying with the TSl in 9/32-16 size once the coopers bite the dust. I've seen enough of them to convince me that when the push comes to shove these tires eat the regular MT tires for lunch   nadim Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:35 am:    Ryan, I do indeed have the 265/80-16s on the 5.5s, and yes, that might restrict performance, but not to the extent that I my truck does not performa\ at all... As far as the TSL tread design is concerned, I did not like the center lugs. The "Three Stage Lugs" themselves are great, but the center lugs do not clear easily, and stock up whith mud easily. I think that we should best put mud tiers into two categories, directional and non-directional...a couple of years back, I am not sure there were as many directional tires as there are today (Yok. MT, MT Baja Claw, Boggers, Simex Extreme...). Ultimately, that makes the difference. As far as non-directional mud tires, the TSL (SX in particular) are great. But now, instead of having the 'trail only' Bogger, and 'weak' Goodyear MT (old one, not MTR), you now have a new breed of directional mud tires that simply blow off the non-directional ones by miles. That is why I am sort of disappointed by my TSL radials. The 5.5 rims may not be a positive aspect, but they do hold the tires at low double digit PSIs, and they allow the tread to spead out a wee bit more when inflated. Just my thoughts...   muskyman Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:28 am:    at ultra low pressure you are correct from what I have seen narrow rims are just fine,actually have a number of advantages. at ultra low presure on a wide rim the center tread blocks tend to crown up away from the ground where on a skinny rim the bulge is all outboard on the side wall keeping the tread flat to the ground. as far as direction and non-directional, I still feel thats the best way to describe tires ,all this uni-dirrectional shit is just new fangled bullshit. either a tire is meant to go both ways or its not. some guys are now running there baja claws backwards in the rocks and getting better traction so many dirrectional tires can be flopped around.   nadim Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:47 am:    Musky, True true... HTe directional aspect is to clear the tread. On rocks they actually help to BITE more, so that is a big plus. When I install my directionals, I'll still have one spare, and if I am unlucky as to use it, I'll tell you which way is better... Cheers...   muskyman Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 12:05 pm:    Nadim, one of my buddies runs his claws backwards so he has better traction getting back out then he did going in? I just think he has allready decided he isnt gonna make it all the way through and thats why he does it.   nadim Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 12:07 pm:    Musky, True true... HTe directional aspect is to clear the tread. On rocks they actually help to BITE more, so that is a big plus. When I install my directionals, I'll still have one spare, and if I am unlucky as to use it, I'll tell you which way is better... Cheers...   nadim Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 04:48 pm:    LOL...Musky, that's like getting out the bucket before you start drinking!   Milan Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 05:13 pm:    Hey Nadim. I like the bucket analogy. So funny. I don't get it out before drinking but I do sometimes get it out before going to sleep. Guess what. Those times I do, I don't need it. The times I don't, I can never reach it on time. LOL I think this would be akin to running some mud with the Claws on the proper way. Then before this hole preceived to be difficult, you swap'em around. Then you go through and make it. And you think, "Why did I bother?". Guess what if you did not swap'em, you'd be stuck asking yourself some other questions. Hehehe. I'm too lazy to bother swapping. Put em on the way they were intended to be run.   Mel A. (Krawlrovr) Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 05:35 pm:    Nadim, how would the TSL Radials hold up against other radials like the BFG MT or GY MTR on and off-road?   Coppertop Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 10:49 pm:    Had a buddy that had an entire set shred with about 10k on them. They were on their way from Tennessee to Colorado. It happened about 1/3 of the way there.   nadim Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 03:50 am:    Mel, I have seen the original BFG MTs in actions, and there was a Stage 1 V8 wearing them in 32x11.5 form, they got shread at the sidewall during a climb, were my TSLs did not. However, that was the ONLY time i saw them fail. MTRs I have not seen in action. Just recieved a shipment in Lebanon, so would need some time to see about them. My TSLs have failed me many times and that is why I am not too fond of them. On their defense though, I am a harsh driver and would want to go anywhere...but weren't these tires built for this? Why whould I sacrifice snow traction (BFG MT), sidewall traction (MTR) and road manner for getting the TSLs?... As for the bucket: "aha!"