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discofever
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:14 am: | 
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Anybody tried the power steering hose change over kit on www.roverconnection.com. I guess it changes the hoses to mostly metal. |
Dee Cantrell (Discodad)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:22 pm: |
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I looked at the pictured they had listed that looks like the transmission cooling line the hard pipe on the pressure side is much smaller and has a male threaded connector. Also the resivor can only accept straight hose with clamps. That is the area that is leaks from all the time... If its a stock resivor i do not see how an upgraded hose kit will affect any change.. Mine is new and it leaks.. |
Dee Cantrell (Discodad)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:31 pm: |
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This is a better value at Alantic British, Or ill bet Nathan Discount Rovers can beat the price
HOSE- POWER STEERING KIT DISCOVERY 1
Item: 9397D
Model: D1
Price: $99.95 (In Stock!)
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Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:51 pm: |
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These hoses can be made locally by any hydraulic shop that has a creative technician.
The o-ring fittings are fairly unique, but they can be cut off and JIC standard connectors brazed on and more common fittings employed.
The low pressure line from the reservoir to the pump can be heater hose (5/8"). The return line from the pump to the reservoir can have the collar cut off of it to expose a hose barb and another piece of heater hose employed.
The only line that is of any concern is the high pressure line from the pump to the gear box.
Cost for a complete set should not run you more than $40. Take your hoses off and take them to the local hydraulic shop. Hint- it is not necessary to retain the goofy bends of the stock hoses, in fact, removing them and utilizing a few 90' flare fittings helps immensely in reinstallation.
Now I wish I had taken pictures of the beautiful hose I had made for my power steering system.
Paul |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 01:13 pm: |
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Paul,
hate to contradict - but I do this stuff for a living.
1) Please do NOT use heater hose in any automotive application other than coolant. The EPDM tube will NOT withstand ATF, motor oil, gear oil etc. It will swell and eventually burst - no question.
2) No need to worry about brazing any flare fittings to the OEM "bumped tube" o-ring connections - just use tube to thread connectors instead - the tube size for all the lines (trans cooler, oil cooler, PS) is 1/2" OD. These are commonly available and you can do it all at home. Simply cutoff the hard line ends of the original lines and use tube connectors.
3) The bumped tube connections are not unique by any means - they are commonly used on all automotive AC systems. If you have a Weatherhead hydraulic distributor near you, they have access to the appropriate stuff.
Don't get me wrong here - I'm all for figuring out better/cheaper ways to do this stuff - just be careful about how you go about it. As you said, any competent hydraulic dist should be able to help out.
Bill |
discofever
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 01:14 pm: |
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Thanks guys. Appreciate the info. |
Dee Cantrell (Discodad)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 01:15 pm: |
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40.00 Plus time and effort the CB approach might cost you well over 100.00 but you may get a quality hose... The problem still lies in the Resivor it has those plastic niples that you clamp too that is where the majority of them leak from.. Also heater hose is not oil resistant and will rot out very quickley... |
Dee Cantrell (Discodad)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 01:34 pm: |
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Kick out some greenbacks and add this the get some custom hoses
http://www.hotrodssuperstore.com/unrempowstee.html |
discofever
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 02:22 pm: |
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What about changing out the hoses, any tricks? Do I have to prime the pump after I change the hoses or just keep filling the resivior until it's full? |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 02:41 pm: |
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I sure don't know where you guys are getting your heater hoses, but mine say right on them that they are gas and oil resistant, so, I will restate my earlier comments with a caveat that one should ensure that the composition of their heater hoses are compatible with whichever fluid that is pasting through it. FWIW, the glycols in the anti-freeze (and brake fluid) are fairly agressive and most of the hoses that I see have similar compatabilities. Obviously, I am not using EPDM tubing. If I had the truck here today, I'd run out to see what the tubing said it was made out of.
Seems to me that given the likelihood of Rovers to leak all manner of fluids it only makes sense that one would use a material that is compatible with both the glycols found in coolant and brake fluid and the aliphatics found in the lubricants.
Bill:
Are you suggesting that one should use compression fittings? It was my understanding that these pressures were too high for such applications, hence the flared fittings.
Dee:
I drop the tubes off at my buddy's house and pick them up the next day. If I were a true CB, I'd crimp my own fittings on here at the plant!
Peace,
Paul |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 04:58 pm: |
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Paul,
not trying to cause you problems - just hope to prevent you or anyone else a problem....
1) Hoses for coolant and those which are oil resistant are normally mutually exclusive with the exception of some high end Nitrile compounds. Coolant hoses have EPDM tubes which are not affected (initially) by water or ethylene glycol, etc coolants. Hose tubes for various oils will have nitrile, cpe or polyacrylate tubes depending on which fluid your sepcifically tryin to resist. Anyway - just saying "heater hose" is extremely misleading. Also - just because the cover is oil resistant, does not mean the tube is also. Just be careful - that's all....
2. HYDRAULIC flareless compression fittings are fine - can be used in 1/2" OD tube size up to 3000+ psi with the tube wall thickness of the Rover OEM hoses I've cut apart. I should have clarified not to use plumbing compression fittings.
Again - you may know what you're looking for, but many others will not....... |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 05:12 pm: |
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Bill:
I did some research on Swagelok compression fittings and was amazed to see what the maximum allowable working pressures were. Far greater than I had thought safe. Even more amazed to find that the stainless fittings had exactly the same MAWP as the mild steel.
I will have to see what the hoses my buddy at the hydraulic shop set me up with-they were what he spec'd out for me. I have a coupla feet left over. Where's some Tygon when you need it?
Chemical compatibility charts are my best friend here at work, and all too often, at home! Alcohols (and glycols/diols) and aliphatics are compatible with some compounds, but as you said, not with some others. Same with metal fittings, I have seen brass pipe fittings only last a few minutes in some applications before they start pissing everywhere.
Peace,
Paul |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 05:17 pm: |
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hell yes..
i done blew out a PS replacement hose, i used heater hose. converter locked and shit went everywhere.
i used HD hydraluic hose and it's been cool for a year. bill are there any issues with this hose ? i assumed it could cope with everything and it seems to have.
i am very soon putting another PS box in and i'll be "modifiying" my hoses to make them standard, as well as changing the location and size of the Trans oil cooler (and changing those lines also)
the fact that the trans cooler lines are mostly metal, is so that they radiate heat better? or dont get rubbed raw from a vibration?
i dont know but like i said i am getting some pipe bent and then rerouting the remainder with hose.
rd |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:28 am: |
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Paul - yep, swagelok is a good mfg, but more suited towards instrumentaion fittings - for industrial/automotive use they are overpriced/overkill. hydraulic flareless compression fittings are fine. Course, that being said, I do have some SS swagelok on my truck - but only because it doesn't cost me much 
Chem compat charts are a good thing, but can be VERY misleading when it comes to rubber - every molder/extruders/mixers formulation of the same compound is extremely different.
Rob,
One wire hydraulic hose is great for the oil and trans cooler lines - specifically what what the tubes were compounded to resist. Overkill on working pressure - but that's OK! I recently moved my trans cooler and replumbed with one wire hydraulic hose and reused the stock fittings with hyd compression fittings. As long as you route and secure the rubber covered hose well, you will not have any abrasion issues. I cut my metal line about halfway up the oil pan, and then ran hyd hose from there to the radiator and trans cooler. I also sleeved it all in silicone/fiberglass firesleeve because I hated how close the stock lines run past the exhaust - talk about negating the effects of a trans cooler! Anyway, I hope to see some reduced temps now - especially in long periods of idling/slow crawling.
Bill |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:18 am: |
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thanks for the ideas bill! i'll have pictures some day.
rd |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:36 am: |
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I'll try to get some pix of mine for you also
Bill |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:33 pm: |
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Bill:
I called Gates Rubber and Hose and Ashland oil...
The hoses I am using for my lubricants (Aliphatic) and heater hoses (water and ethylene glycol) are made of nitrile. From the material safety data sheet I received from Ashland oil and the discussion with the application engineer with Gates, the hose I am using is compatible with everything in my truck, even the brake fluid (mixed glycols).
Further, conferring with the chemical compatibility charts, the same conclusion was reached. I guess the mistake I made (if indeed I made one) was the overkill on the hoses I use by buying what I thought was the best, which has apparently been borne out through discussions with the manufacturers of both the hoses and the chemicals, and assuming that others would do the same..
As for chemical compatibility charts, I risk my life on them-they'd better be right as I pick my personal protective equipment based upon the charts I have.
The compounds I found which are not compatible with Nitrile are compounds that if I were to encounter them in my truck, I would have far bigger problems than the composition of my hoses!
BTW-Gates suggests the hoses I use for applications where the hoses may be exposed to both hydraulic fluids and ethylene glycol containing coolants.
Paul |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:48 pm: |
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Paul - glad to hear that you chose a nitrile tubed hose over a standard EPDM tube heater hose construction. As you found out - it should serve you well.
Gates (as well as many other mfg's) also have "heater hose" that is specifically NOT recommended for any oil based fluids - as a matter of fact, Gates alone has 4 varieties of heater hose that call that fact out very clearly - hence, my concern with you original statement about using "heater hose"
Happy hosing......
Bill |
Larry Grubbs (Larryg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 06:15 pm: |
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Regarding PS reservoir issues. Has anyone ever put a different reservoir on their truck that doesn't have the plastic nipples? I mean, a reservoir is a reservoir isn't it?
BTW I appreciate all the conversation about custom hoses to stop the rover from leaking. My wifes is leaking right now and I want to replace the hoses with something other than OEM and stop the leaking once and for all.
Larry |
Rich Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:00 pm: |
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Bill,
Could you please list sources and actual part numbers for your trans cooler line conversion?
Mine are starting to ooze and I want to make them bombproof before they blow.
I am familiar with AN fittings and braided stainless oil cooler plumbing as I assembled them a lot for the Callaway turbo Rabbits that I used to build (I still remember all the times I punctured my fingertips on the braid wire). I am hoping there is a simpler, cheaper way to do this right for my rover trans cooler.
Please post photos as well.
Thanks
PS. Ax,Ho,John or Kyle...why does the list censor the word "••••••" ? (that's YNNART spelled backwards) |
Ali
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:39 am: |
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Guys,
It's quite easy to make your own hoses. Cut off the LR fittings and try to save as much as you can. Then go to your nearest hose dist (Motion industries for example) and purchase same id hoses. The return hose is a low press but make sure to get a high pressure ATF rated hose for the high press line. Then get creative using type J fittings and a little brazing and you're done. Basically I made up a custom hose attached to the stock LR nipples (at pump and box end). From now on if anything leaks, I simply unscrew my high press hose then get another one with type J fittings at each end. Sorry if I sound too confusing! Email me for pics. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
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Ali:
That is the exact same argument I used and got soundly flamed for it! There is little to nothing special about the existing fittings and hoses, and the quality has to be called into question, otherwise, why would so many of us be replacing them with more robust?
With respect to •••••• and oil cooler lines, other than the likelihood that the pipe fittings (at the radiator and engine/••••••) are British parallel pipe, rather than NPT taper, I see no reason why one couldn't discard the goofy "Bumped fittings" and replace them with a more common fitting that would allow for even greater flexibility and field replacement.
My stuff works great and is available off the shelf should I suffer a failure when out in the middle of nowhere wheeling.
Peace,
Paul |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 10:10 am: |
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my meridian PS box just arrived here at work,,, shall be a fun weekend
rd |
Dee Cantrell (Discodad)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 11:56 am: |
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Rob you saw the light,,, Call me if you need some help technical that is... |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 02:10 pm: |
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Rich,
just saw your post. I'll get some pix when I get a spare moment:
parts are:
Hose - Dayco AX (-6) - this is a 100R1 hyd hose with an extremely tight bend radius (ie: very flexible)
Fittings - crimped on male pipe fittings
Tube adapters - Weatherhead
3/8" pipe x 1/2" tube straight - p/n 7255X8
3/8" pipe x 1/2" tube 45 degree - p/n 7355X8
Your app may be different as far as fittings goes because I was moving my trans cooler. Regardless, the idea is still the same.
As mentioned above, there are other ways of doing this such as brazing adapters to the OEM tubing. I chose my way because I had the parts available and it was something anybody could do in their garage (with the exception of crimping the hydraulic fititngs on the hose)
Bill |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:21 pm: |
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bill where did you move your cooler? i was going to just move mine stright up, but i am finding that it will still be a little bit in the way for what i want to do.
i'd like to move it to just underneath where the radiator is, i recon it's hotter back there though and that might interfer with the cooling action
i found that a unit from a diesel dodge power wagon are 5/8" inlet and outlet, i figured it wouldn't harm the rate of flow. stock rovers seem to be pretty big like 1/2" most aftermarket is 3/8"
rd |
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