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ken nishikawa (Scubaman99)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:43 am: | 
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95 range rover air supsension => 95 Disco....
am i crazy, has it ever been done?!?!?!? can it be done????
couple of questions...
1. does anyone know if there are extenuating technical differences that would prevent you from replacing a disco's coil springs with RR air springs.
2. how do the RR handle off road with air springs... supposing you could transplant the air springs for your coils, would they be at least as good???
just curious.... |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:19 am: |
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there arfe all kinds of guys taking them off of RR's so I'm sure you could get the complete system
but why?...to be novel?
if you really want air suspension I'd say go air assist such as bags in the springs |
ken nishikawa (Scubaman99)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:00 am: |
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no not novel...
my disco BARELY fits in my garage... every time i pull it in to the garage the two roof rack rails just scrape the door... (its a 95 with the tired old original springs and shocks)
id really like a lift, heck id like to just put some slightly bigger tires... but im sure if i did the light scraping would turn into something worse...
so... i was just wondering... heck if RR can go up and down on air springs... and i think the drive line of a 95 RR and disco are pretty close (i think)
why couldnt you swap your springs for air bags... i know they sell kits for RR to do the oppsite. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:05 am: |
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because the failure rate of the very expensive air bags is unacceptably high.
because when you get it all done you are all set to have the compressor go bad and cost you an arm and a leg |
Brian (Rover_Wannabe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:23 am: |
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I don't have any Rover at all yet, but in my searching for one I have been told time and time again that if I can, avoid air suspension. I have heard of alot of people taking their stock air suspensions out, and "upgrading" to non air suspensions. If putting your truck in the garage is that much of a concern, there is another alternative, and in the long run it would cost alot less. Tear out the garage floor (and some of the driveway), and lower it. A few months after moving into my brand new house, the garage floor was chunking out all over the place. The contractor had to come back in and replace it. It took all of 2 days, and I have to guess not more than $2-3000 dollars. I have got to imagine that the parts, and labor, as well as constant upkeep on your air suspension would cost alot more, as well as be very frustrating, versus 2 days and a new garage floor. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 10:22 am: |
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Muskyman is right!
I have this argument with my brother in law on a regular basis. The modifications I do to my truck are intended to improve reliability so that when I'm miles from the nearest ATM and haven't had cell phone service for two days I'm not gonna be stranded because of the failure of an air bag, valve block, or compressor.
I have heard far too many horror stories of folks having to drive LONG distances with their Rangies on the bump stops to get to the dealer to have the computer reset, just to have it all happen again in just a short period of time. The most recent example that was related to me will lead to either divorce or selling of a Range Rover!
The garage I'm building will have 10 foot doors to accommodate not only my Rover, but my other trucks which don't fit into the current garage either.
In this particular case, I'm afraid it is an issue of the garage not fitting the vehicle, not the vehicle not fitting the garage.
Last thought, you would need to investigate alternative shock mounting as the Rangies use an external shock and mount the air bags where we would normally have the spring/shock assembly on our Discos. Also, what are you gonna do for ECM for the EAS? I suppose that could be done manually-there is a company that makes a manual valve block and I suppose you could always rig up the air compressor from your ARB to run the EAS.
Paul |
brian friend
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 01:21 pm: |
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I have been pondering the "how do I get the thing in the garage after I do this too it" question for quite some time. Brian has a great idea that I had never thought of. "Tear out the garage floor (and some of the driveway), and lower it. " Seems simple enough. Maybe I could even add a pit. HHHmmmm...wonder how that would go over with my wife?
brian friend |
cartner
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 01:44 pm: |
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Um...park in the driveway...air just isn't worth it. If you DO do a pit, don't tell her, make a cleverly camouflaged trap door that slides away to reveal your secret underground lair....muhahahahhaha....oh yes..oh...yes.. |
brian firend
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 01:57 pm: |
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Ah Ha......what she does not know will not hurt her. Yes, and underground lair. I could drink beer, smoke, hang a poster of the bud girl and set up a t.v. and play with land rover sztuff. what a life.
brian |
Brian (Rover_Wannabe)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:51 pm: |
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If you have to hide it, how much fun will that be? I'd rather be able to throw open the garage door, and have the neighbors jaws drop. Oh the joys of being recently divorced :-). Now I just need to find me woman that'll understand all of my toys! I figure it'll be one I have to lasso, and drag home! Along similiar lines, my garage door opening is 84 inches, so when I get my 1994 or 1995 rover disco, I should be able to put on OME HD shocks, and it will fit fine, but can I also put on a roof rack? If I put on a winch and heavy duty bumper which I assume will then lower the truck a bit, will it then fit with a roof rack? OR should I slap myself now for now having the guys lower my floor when they redid it? (I only drove cars at the time) |
scubaman99
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 05:00 pm: |
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Thanks everyone...
considering...
1. we live in a homeowners association, i dont think they'd like me "lowering" my garage floor = : - 0
2. seeing as how much money its going to cost me to fix my rigs other issues (est to be in the $,$$$.00 range)... brakes, rotor and caliper...
looks like "expermenting" with someones old air bags is no longer in the budget. actually listening to everyone, it sounds like a headache anyways
for what its worth, i got this idea cause i saw an ebay auction for the "whole kit and kabudle"... air springs, compresser, and control unit, if anyones looking for a setup.
i'm going to go the "tried and true" OME method.
thx |
Ali
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 05:24 pm: |
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Having air suspension is not that far fetched - just use common sense and quality parts. If all air suspensions were that bad then the heavy truck hauling industry wouldn't use them so much!
But I'd want total control of all air bags and keep everything simple. You can easily use a set of four two way pneumatic switches to achieve the adjustment you require. These switches come in a nice console for a 18 wheeler sit adjustment. Use Firestone or similarly high quality bags and a good quality elect/mechanical air compressor. Check out the low rider industry for some ideas. |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 05:43 pm: |
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its not far fetched at all but to start with LR allready proven to be crap is not the way to go.
as I stated early on I think that having air as an assist has some potential.
I have seen a number of air suspensions on mud trucks. some that have incredible flex combined with a good ride.
the problem you run into is the scale of the semi-truck bags. the diameter of the bag decides the springrate at a given psi. so using a semi bag then makes you need to reduce the working pressure way down to aquire the springrate you want. one other short comming of this is that just 1 0r 2 psi change can have a dramatic change on the spring rate.
psi x dia x 3.14 = ponds of lift
there are a number of smaller diameter airbags sold as helper springs. some are designed to go inside coils,such as those designed to help a coil spring ford carry a snow plow.
some of these may have a better application on a truck of the disco's size . due to the fact there(the smaller air bags) have a working pressure more in line with what people currently have onboard allready.
but as paul pointed out driving on the bumpstops because a failure of some kind cant be much fun. So I'd say having at least stock springs at the heart of the system would be a smart place to start.
when its all said and done just some good aftermarket lift springs sounds pretty simple and good |
Ali
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:09 pm: |
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Good points Thom. I have seen the front air bags from a Peterbilt's front suspension installed in 4x4s. These bags are tall and narrow, thus making for good replacement for our coils. LR bags are of lower quality and the control system for the EAS is too complex. Valve bodies used for continuous lowering/raising/levelling of the suspension suffer from overuse and coil burnout. If you remove the automatic height adjustment feature, the complex valve block and then replace them with simple devices, then perhaps you have a reliable system. Keeping the air drier and using a good quality air comp, couple that with Firestone bags should yield a decent system.
The main thing I like is the ability to retain all stock suspension and driveline geometry and still be able to run taller tires. For offroading, simply raise the vehicle and give youself a 3" lift on the spot. Who cares if your castor goes out of whack since you're crawling around anyway. This way you have the on road manners of a stock height rig but somewhat decent manners of a lifted rig. The jeep I saw had these air bags dropped the suspension out so far that the shocks were the limiting factor! |
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