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Author Message   Kyle Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:04 pm:    That last thread was getting to damn long to scroll down to and just a wee bit off the topic. It started about equipment failure and some reflections. Well as for Rovertym , the stuff that was there that was RTE did well I think. All three of the trucks that finished both trails had his steering links and out of that two were bent , but thats the beauty of the links , they didnt fail , they just bowed some and kept on getting up. One of the trucks had his sliders and they were into the doors on both sides when you opened em. I looked briefly while still on the trail and really couldnt see that the sill was bent or the damn slider and didnt have time to really investigate further. The cannuck tells me that when he got home they had worked loose and that was most of the issue. One side did have a bend in the sweet spot but we have been over and over that already and it aint like we were being real nice to them. For some prespective I will say that one of your sliders was hitting something in those trails about every 3 minutes and it wasnt a real romatic type love tap , that shit got beat hard by trucks that were running heavy. I as well as Ax had the Rovertym rear arms and I dont know about Ax but the big ass rock that got my frame ear was all over that one arm and again , it wasnt all sweet like , it was late , I was getting tired and pissed off and I was wanting over that bitch pretty bad. When I was fixing the frame ear I inspected the arms and there were a few real deep gouges in it where the rock had kinda just dug into it , but all was well.... The $G sliders bent in the ussual places and I think Peters sliders were the only ones that had no issues at all.. (I am going to steal them) My sliders as I said before didnt bend but slid on the mounts up into the rear doors instead... Aside from that everything went well. I did notice that Ax had layed open his $G diff guard and my diff just decided to empty itself for no apparent reason , but niether were fatal.. With all that said , keep in mind that these trucks are loaded to the gills. I run 763 OME rear springs and they were down 2" from empty if you do the math on the spring rates it isnt hard to see just how much crap is packed in there. Findlay runs heavy as well as Ax. Comparing them to trucks that are only carrying a few hundred pounds extra is like apples to oranges , you just cant compare it. Things get bent easier. Thats just the way it is.... The important thing to all of us was that none of them got a fatal wound....Thats priority... Kyle   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 08:48 pm:    I second that. My RTE trailing arms was beat on pretty much constantly for two weeks. They have some nice scratches in the coating now, but they did not bend. I would say they held up very well. The SG front diff guard got chewed up pretty bad, and now has a hole in the bottom part. But in all fairness, after the beating it took, it protected my front diff for the entire trip, and did it's job. $90 to replace it now is a whole lot better than fixing a hole in my diff. SG sliders, bent in the usual front sweet spot, but did their job as well. They are fixable.   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:03 pm:    So did you break the seal where the third member meets the housing Kyle? Or did you crack the housing where the lip of the diff guard is? Just wondering how the fluid just came out. I cracked the rear seal of my diff on a hill climb but, it didn't come pooring out. More like a drip every so often.   Kyle Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:09 pm:    Mine is in the front cover somewhere behind the diff guard. I havnt taken it off to look yet but I am thinking it got jacked up while backing up and tore one of the welds where the guard was welded to the case.... Kyle   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 01:25 am:    How/when did you know "and my diff just decided to empty itself for no apparent reason" Kyle? Did the plug work loose? How soon after it emptied itself did you know something was wrong? Did it make sounds? What were the symptoms? Yes, I know, painfully ignorant questions, but I honestly want to know. Thanks   \Mike... (Mpeters) Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 04:22 am:    it was just a few seconds after he tipped to the left about 12 degrees and the diff-oil poured out the side of his diff-guard. the obvious rainbow effect in the dirt was our clue to further investigate...   \Mike... (Mpeters) Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 04:27 am:    i have heard of these things happening before when the diff-guard, in contact with the cap face of the diff but welded below the actual lip, drives the cap up with enough force to crack the lip just inside the diff-guard welds. will be interesting to see after you cut into it...   Michael Villanueva (Michael) Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 12:08 pm:    How can tipping a paltry 12 degrees cause oil to pour out the side??   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 02:41 pm:    It wasn't the tipping that caused the oil to pour out, it was gravity. They install gravity everywhere these days. Anyway, the hole was somewhere low on the diff, and it collected inside the diff guard. At one point, it started coming out from the bottom, between the diff guard and the diff.   Kyle Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:08 pm:    Gravity is a bitch,,,cant seem to escape it.... Kyle   Paul D. Morgan (V22guy) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:21 pm:    "They install gravity everywhere these days" Thanks Axel, I now have a reply to all of those Osprey questions I get. Good Stuff, Paul '00 Pig   Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:22 pm:    I for one do not wish to escape gravity. Far more often, it is much more convenient to work with it than try to work against it! Peace, Paul   Kyle Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:38 pm:    I dont know about that , a little less gravity here http://www.discoweb.org/wildwest/rubicon/DSC006276.jpg Woulda been nice with the Disco braking system.... Kyle   Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:42 pm:    Without gravity, those big rocks would have been floating all over the place, perhaps even floating through your windscreen:-). Considering your Disco would have been floating around too, there would have been that many more obstacles to hit, we'd all need exo-cages!   Kyle Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 02:38 pm:    Well that is part of the earth man..... And I said LESS!!! lol , not "none"..... I still hear moaning Disco brakes in my head at night when I try to sleep......damn Kyle   Eric N (Grnrvr) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:00 pm:    Squeeeaaaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uuurrrruunnnggggkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:05 pm:    Well, if there were no gravity, wouldn't the Earth just be floating around in space, too? Wait.... Never mind....   \Mike... (Mpeters) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:10 pm:    i liked that spot, actually... flexy...   John Lee Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:18 pm:    It's sometimes possible to defy gravity: http://www.discoweb.org/thetick.jpg   John Cinquegrana (Johnc) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:20 pm:    I thought you guys were talking about floating rocks not floating fairys!!! Sorry Ho....   Kyle Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:21 pm:    lol , I knew that was gonna pop in....... That spot was cool peters but a bit hard to stop the beast... The "Point and pray" tecnique was definately in full force there... Kyle   andy Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 04:33 pm:    Kyle, What design would you think is the ultimate in slider? I'm just curious, I'm not looking for arguement. I was contemplating get RTE's because of the step, try loading a 22 foot tandem touring kayak on an mild OME lifted disco and you'll want side steps. I too tend to travel loaded off road and just contemplating my best options, however I don't think I'll take on the rubicon of the dusti any time soon. Also I'm curious why you don't like the detroit and TT idea, to weak? What's your opinon on the best set up? andy 95 d1 slc   Kyle Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 04:47 pm:    Andy I am running a Detroit rear and TT front. I think the TTs are very nice Diffs but lack the traction that a detroit has in the rear , therefore your low speed control suffers a bit. The detroit rear and TT front has not let me down and has taken me everywhere I wanted to go without fail , I cant complain for a second about them. As far as sliders go.... Look at it this way. The RTE is an $G slider on steroids. Thats why PKs comments about the RTE made me laugh. John took the $G design and made it better in every way (Better mounting , better materials), so its kind of a joke comparing his to $G's. Now that step does add a little leverage thing there and does put more strain on what the slider is mounted to if it falls on something or is powered into an obstacle (What we were doing and just sometimes has to be done). For 99% of the guys the RTE would probably suit your needs without fail. For the guys that are gonna "Abuse" them , I think that little step might just piss you off... Mike Peters has some really nice low profile sliders but I dont think you can get them anymore and they didnt come with the step you are looking for... I am sure you will be happy with the RTE sliders man.... As I said before , you cant really pass judgement on them by what we were doing to them. Most people arent going to set out to put them through that much... Kyle   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 04:56 pm:    thats' correct, all we do is cyberwheeling, so why even bother with the fucking sliders? andy, if my opinion matters at all, i have detroit rear and ARB front. works great! (when it decides to work)   pk Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 06:21 pm:    Well, What I said was that the RTE slider without the shelf would be ultimate. Its that shelf that pisses me off. Kyle is right. most of the time for most of the people, the shelf ain't gonna hurt but only help. pk   Kyle Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 08:20 pm:    www.roversolutions.com/images/TTaction.mpg Yes , and here is the TT action you were talking about ? Kyle   Jroc (Jroc) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 08:47 pm:    Andy, I know your question was directed towards Kyle, but if you don't mind, here's another option. I have a '95 Disco and was also laboring over the decision of who's sliders to go with. I like the design of John's (Rovertym), but I felt that the shelf comes out a bit too far. John's stuff is definately stout as anyone's, and he's open to making whatever modifications you want. It also doesn't hurt that he's a helluva nice guy. But, as I said, if your looking for another option you could go with Trek Outfitter. There design includes a shelf, but it's not quite as deep as John's. I went with there's and I just finished the installation today. They are very solid and heavy as hell! I wish I had a digital camera so I could include a pic, sorry. They also give Discoweber's a discount, which I'm not sure everyone here know's. If you are curious as to what they look like they have a couple of pics on there sight. Anyway, either way I think you'll be happy. Good luck, and if you go with the Trek's and have install questions, shoot me an e-mail and I'd be happy to help. And if you're going to be at MAR look for me in a white '95 Disco w/N.Y. plates. I'd also like to add that I'm a total newbie and don't claim to Know it all, just trying to help a fellow man. Get it dirty.   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 10:28 pm:    Quote: 'however I don't think I'll take on the Rubicon or the Dusi any time soon.' Fear not, we have it all on tape, so you will be able to go without leaving your living room or damage anything as soon as we release the DVD.... Yes, another shameless plug for the DiscoWeb videos.....   andy Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:50 am:    I like that, cyber wheeling down to the living room for some tv wheeling. I am starting build a nice collection of dweb videos, I can hear my wife saying "groan ... another one of those videos from those guys?" Since Moab is three hours from me I may end up someday on the rubicon and dusti as my experience (read balls) builds. Besides I finally got my truck to stop over heating on trails, I'm not ready for cracked diffs or crowbar tierods. Sliders are next springs upgrades, along with lockers and a winch for my arb. I just took Kyle's comments in the "what I learned ..." thread as he wasn't fond of tt/detroit option. As for sliders, I use my truck for hauling kayaks, climbing gear, skis, I bought a kaymar rack for the roof, more ways to get to it the better. I'll check into the trek outfitter sliders thanks for the tip, one I hadn't looked at yet. I think those shelves are one of those items you absolutely think is the best idea ever, until you screw them up some how from some freak unpredicted trail damage. Then you hate them. The unpredictable nature of offroading is what I love about wheeling. Besides, right now out here in Utah the snow is falling in the mountains as I write this. So I'm afraid the disco's job is going to be taking me to backcountry skiing trailheads. Andy 95 D1 slc   Axel Haakonsen (Axel) Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 07:38 am:    I think you may have misread Kyle's comment's about the TT/Detroit combo. Kyle is usually a big proponent of that setup, it's what he runs, and it works well. It's pretty much an "Install and Forget" setup, it works automatically when you need it, and on the road you don't notice it. I have the same setup, and belive me, over 6K+ road miles from NJ to California and back, I never even noticed they were there. I think what Kyle has an issue with, is the dual TT setup. While still good, it is not as good as TT/Detroit, since TT is a limited slip, not a full locker. ARB lockers work well too, when they work. The ARB crowd usually chimes in here with the "I can turn my lockers off when I don't need them" argument. That's fine, but it introduces a level of complexity that not everyone wants. In addition to the lockers, you now have air lines, seals and the compressor to worry about. These items can and will fail, so even though the ARB can be turned off when not needed, it may not always come back on when it is. ARB installation is also more complicated than a TT or Detroit install. And in all honesty, I haven't been in a situation where I felt a need to turn my lockers off yet.....   Simon E. Arenas (Simon) Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 08:58 am:    tha'ts true.. ARB's might become a pain... but also IMO people make a mistake to install that wimpy compressor in the engine bay and we all know what that brings to a sucking and blowing device..... mine has been inside and no complains yet (2 years plus) but I know it will happen and hopefully wont happen in the middle of the shit.. that's why I also have a DL ( also cheaper )in the rear.. the other complain that I have is that in the kind of gumbo shit we run here in FL sometimes you need to run the ARB for a longer period than I feel safe.. those solenoids do get hot! I might need some HD wiring.... but haven't burned anything yet either... I always turn them off when not needed.. but now it is a nessecity to turn them off before they fry... ( about 45 minutes) not bad but not a TT in the front( also cheaper).. Simon   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 09:58 am:    For what it's worth, I think John has revised his slider design and incorporates a plate that runs up the door jamb where the front door hinges. You have to remove your front doors to install, but this helps prevent the rotation due to the leverage from the side steps. Not sure if it's standard, though. You may have to ask for it. But again, another example of how John listens to the feedback and is always trying to improve his products.   \Mike... (Mpeters) Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:02 pm:    U know, Ax - I have seen occasions where you might feel the need to turn your lockers off.. (grin) It's usually on tight switchbacks just atop an obstacle, which is occasionally located on the edge of a cliff - the Detroit just wants to go straight in that situation.. sometimes straight is not so good. it can make for some pretty wide-eyed maneuvers, or so it would appear from the look on the drivers' faces I've seen at times, but nothing you can't deal with by using a little patience and a lot of little back-and-forth turns. -chime!- pssstt, pssst.. hehehehh   Ho Chung (Ho) Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:06 pm:    you can undo the CDL and turn real tight.   Kyle Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:07 pm:    LOL , Peters has nailed that one... Yeah , those are the places that things get a little "Touchy" there are certainly alot of little victories for the ARB and I hate that shelf road shit. But I would still rather have to deal with that then have to deal with a locker that aint working... Kyle   Curtis N (Curtis) Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:19 am:    Diff shmiff! I want to go back to this: "It's sometimes possible to defy gravity: http://www.discoweb.org/thetick.jpg " This is truly the perfect picture in Rover art. We have John and pk playing opposing warriors in perfect ballet style. Kyle plays the emotionally torn friend of both who is so upset over the conflict he is tossing his cookies out the window. Sorry - I could not resist ;) Curtis   Paul T. Schram (Paulschram) Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:07 am:    Now we have operatic wheeling! Now for Gotterdammerung playing in the background. Maybe Ride of the Valkyries for the flying shots! I love the smell of 90 wt (oozing from busted diffs) in the morning. I'm off to find my DAT of the NYC opera's Gotterdammerung for this weekend's wheeling! Peace, Paul   Curtis N (Curtis) Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:50 pm:    LOL - Paul I thought for sure that my post would have brought at least Kyle or John out for a comment, but I'll be damned if it didn't Curtis   John Lee Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:35 am:    Well Curtis, so far I've been called Peter Pan, a fairy, and a faggot for screwing around on Kyle's bumper. That was the spot where Kyle was leaned over 12 degrees and PK and I had to do some ticking. I felt a little silly hanging onto Kyle's bumper like a tick on a dog, so I started screwing around for the camera.   Greg Davis (Gregdavis) Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 01:55 pm:    Ya know, with the exception of those ticks hanging off, that picture could have been taken at Uwharrie. Looks just like the trails there!